tv PODKAST 1TV February 27, 2023 12:10am-12:51am MSK
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i'm a murderer carrying your child. i need to calm down. i know what is it. so listen to me. if you decide to abandon the child, i will understand, however, i do not know how i would act in this situation. don't think me. i don't want to do anything to myself. and god forbid something to cause a child. well, the truth is, you paid me for the fact that i calmly endure your son. and so it would be. and i killed a man, no one is going to refuse a child in your relationship. it is not right. it happened too,
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so it can't be changed. let's get back to previous agreements. i paid you to have a healthy baby. that's all well. may affect his health, so i ask you. calm down , he will say nothing. she is a person with whom she does not happen, you can understand, of course, from this surrogate. i heard such a topic, that men have a special feeling for pregnant women, well, like they know that my child. well, in general,
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they protect him. this is nature instinct and all things. that's your instinct, nothing worked, that this is my child. together but you shouldn't have brought her here. bye girlfriend. svetochka thank you very much of course i kiss everything. bye bye. to me that investigator smirnov enters our vadim yuryevich handcuffs
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really need me. yes, and he me too. to be honest, i just solved my problem. i think to help you. that such a life wants to give a passport. do you want to take away with the money also are you suggesting that he be dumped? justice you forgave the recognition of your mother as capable and what you really forgave, right?
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sashenka excuse me, you will swear. yes i i just showed anya's account photos and there was geolocation and that's it. how normal? fine. how are you? what are you calling? no, everything is fine. what are you doing with your zombies there ? do you know me? what are you calling? kind of bored. well, like tell something, for example. i don't know how the day went.
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which hello with you schrödinger code podcast i'm its presenter grigory tarasevich editor -in-chief of a popular science magazine with the same name schrödinger's cat actually schrödinger's cat is such a thought experiment related to complex quantum physics, if in short, it's an accessible metaphor. a simple metaphor is a very complex science and our podcast is just about how he sees the complex in the simple and the simple in the complex, and today we will talk about series. and together with me, svetlana karlash is a psychologist and someone else, but who i will tell later and we will talk about complex things through a fairly simple understandable serial container. you have watched this series. yes, and we are navy, can you see the container series as
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an acute social drama, but in fact, uh, there are a lot of such borderline psychological issues, but social ones too, uh. and i think it's quite provocative, not only from the point of view of the topic of surrogacy, but from the point of view of broader issues of worldview , a couple of words and link series a friend someone has not watched, although we recommend it to everyone. yes, no spoilers, no spoilers girl. sasha, 28 years old , a surrogate mother bears a child and then gives birth to him by order of some. rich people are very rich. well, further twisting rich people complicated relationships the rich also cry. ah, the totalitarian mother. these are the heroines the young man is the heroine's daughter. well, and so on this movement as much as 2 seasons. maybe even the third one will be back, after all the series.
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it’s generally today that it’s here, does it seem to you that such a form of journalism is quite possible, and it seems to me that this is hmm. in addition, there are some other mirrors of the questions that arise in society and in this mirror they are presented in such a more grotex version, yes, that is , all the storylines, all the characters are exaggerated and pointed, and to me, as a psychologist, some things, of course, they cut the ear and eye, because they are excessively convex. yes, it seems that , apart from this phenomenon , there are no other movements in the human psyche of this or that hero, but still, yes, our topic concerns surrogate motherhood. and maybe we'll take a little break from the series and move on to it. yes, in general, what is this problem with horned motherhood. this is probably a problem. and someone is nurturing about inequality, for whom it is in the series. it seems to me a lot about freedom and not freedom about control
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about order. and vice versa, well, about the conflict of the generation, after all, there are not every attitude of the fathers of children everywhere problems. you are talking now primarily about social phenomena. yes, but they are born from scientific and technological progress, which goes far beyond what we are used to seeing. and more recently, test-tube babies, in principle, caused such a wave of hype. yes , now this is not a problem, but this is done by chi by many people for surrogacy, by the way. in many countries it is forbidden, in some it is allowed, we allow it, and this after all, if you imagine how a mass phenomenon can change quite a lot, and the social picture, yes, and the psychological one , too, you are hinting at some plot of the maid's stories. yes? yes, this topic was brought up and the maid's story, it's just a dystopia that is right on this topic, and it's so creepy,
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actually, actually, in principle, hmm science hmm opens new horizons, but a person is not a very healthy creature mentally master of his a and e, in this sense we are able, of course, to convey a monstrous form. if uh someone, yes, there will have access, as to the power of e in decision-making, because or another item. and we can , like humanity, and we can make it out of any idea. an absolutely monstrous scenario, so they are not without fears about this. e meaning. yes, just like uh, these fears do not mean putting an end to science on progress and on some new technologies that radically change our perception. well, in general, the phenomenon of surrogate motherhood. it's not just someone who reproduced the child, it opens up a lot of different topics. well, for example, here relationship of genes and environment, what is more important genes or
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the environment that a person is brought up? and there is no unambiguous answer grandchildren, yes, a lot of data has been accumulated. this is their wonderful. you know there on psychogenetics. well, there is, there, increased aggressiveness in humans. he will leave her, where to kill people or become an athlete. as far as the fact that the mother was some kind of good bad will be passed on to her child. you understand that the truth is in the middle. yes, you are voicing, two polar radical points of view, of course, neither one nor the other. not pure genetics. and we are talking about some a set of environmental genetic factors that can lie like bones in the lord god in any order, and in this sense , of course, this is an interesting question, but it concerns not only surrogates, mothers, and even e is not so much only adopted children. after all, when you and i start a child and give birth to chigiens. he inherits. eh yes, what
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will get there from the grandmother? great-grandmothers? from which branch from which line? we don't really know either. although of course, here they believe. higher and calculate maybe more vera that an adopted child with such genes, the environment, will still have a decisive influence and there will be a person in a good family. yes, maybe he will not become a world champion in running. e, but if a family has some important ethical standards, then these standards will reproduce and not, but with the same set of e genetic inclinations. yes. eh, maybe a person. uh, different fate uh, with different social. well, for example, if we return to the series and look at how yes played or did not play the genetics of the heroes of the series. here, if you remember someone from heroes, yes? well, for example, sasha is the main character, the daughter of a very authoritarian mother of a teacher. yes, she is pretty tough.
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sasha uh-huh and authoritarianism to her, uh, not she is not devoid of authoritarianism, this means that she was genetically transmitted to her or her mother socially raised her like that, nobody knows, in fact, in science there is no clear answer to this. well, it's very difficult to explore in a good way, you have to take one egg of your gemini from birth to separate them. at the same time, they should be brought up in families with different social culture and then after 20-30 years they were there, but it was always not completely clear. well, for example, in the middle of the 20th century. uh, wonderful, but not completely, a wonderful american psychologist sirial bard, studied the gemini and when they started to study it, firstly, a part was falsified there, and secondly, they took the gemini from the orphanage and separated them, but they turned out to be a chemist with a similar social status , their similarity. this one or that, there is a family of americans. uh, well, you're already talking about social cultural
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aspect, which also affects the formation of personality. he is also included in this series, yes genetics. such, well, biology is what is given initially. uh, mental psychology is what a person gets in the family and socio-cultural is what he gets in a broader context, but look, if we still return to the topic of surrogate surrogacy, which, uh, the host is one of such fundamental in the series container. and how does this question of genetics or environment play into the topic of human reproduction with the help of mom? and here so i see, yes, the genetic material will still be the parental customers. anyway, it will be the mother and father of those who want to endure this child with the help of the mother’s service, but genetically he and them, uh, i am here, as a psychologist, interested in a slightly different question. this is a question whose attachments are formed during pregnancy, and in a woman's format. and
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what to do with it? the film shows a moment where the main character is in the clinic. sasha , yes, they are trying to prevent the child from being quickly discharged, uh, so as not to form maternal instinct, as if the child is taken away immediately after birth. yes, she immediately signs the application of the child does not see the maternal instinct does not wake up. well, partially, of course, if you pick him up and feed him and so on. there, the machine will be launched, activation and other psychological ones, too, yes more, uh, but in general , uh, the formation of a woman's identity, like a mother, begins during pregnancy from the first month. at each stage of pregnancy , a woman moves closer to experiencing herself as a mother and at the time of childbirth. at least somehow yes, to come to terms with this and this is identification. uh, already uh, to be able to integrate yourself, however, uh, in the film yes
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, it is shown that these things can be cut off with the help of a medical protocol, yes. there in the clinic is you escape. and i think it's not . and that the emotional connection of the mother of the child during pregnancy. it exists is e, and e will influence in the future. here we turn to the section of perinatal psychology, dear listeners. i promised to reveal one more quality of our guest svetlana and this quality is my wife. and can i ask you a question already in any way to a psychologist. and as a woman, how do you like the series? that's how you feel when you watch, it seems to me that the series is very uh? actual ah on the one hand and wonderful actors, deep acting, all this cannot impress me a little. it seemed to me too radicalized good and evil. and you do not like it when good is clearly here, evil is clearly
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here. well, i'm still for the complexity of mental processes. and when the main characters , uh, work, 10 episodes in a row in one is not the main one there, one of yes, but we won’t be in the spoiler in the same psychological mental status, and it does not change from the series all of it in principle, it feels like a person is stuck in such a state of mind. so he reproduces it. just in every line in every series without changing anything at all is fine. you don't know, maybe less intelligent than you, but i love it when you can see it's a scoundrel. this is good, but, in principle, everyone loves it very much because these are the basic settings. e is such a state when we divide the world into black and white, everything is very it's clear. everything is very controlled anxiety is reduced, especially in situations. uh, stress overload, our psyche regresses to the basic settings, that is, to the enemies. that is, i am generally regressive at home, let's talk about this topic. listen and i will comfort you. we are aggressive all this is not bad. well, wait. now you will come again to the
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reflexi rope, let's keep it simple. that's what a woman feels, well, imagining herself in the place of this or that heroine, or a customer, or a performer. you know, it's very difficult for me to, uh, feel in the role performers. honestly, i'll tell you, but because , well, here, even there, a kitten or a dog. i am quite attached. um, i probably wouldn't be able to handle my psyche. yes, that's the way i am. e to give the child after embroidery at the place of the customer, for example, hypothetically. i could imagine, there would probably be a lot of anxiety about how the pregnancy is going and uh, if i have and will i have a relationship with a child? and uh, i probably would have been very worried that uh at the time of appearance. yes, my child, there were not two of us with my husband, but three with another woman is still a sacred moment, u where the couple. eh, it's kind of a mystery. yes, there is a continuation
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of the fruit of love, here it turns out to be the fruit of technology, again, i am now talking without negative connotations, and i have no idea that there is a fruit of technology. this is bad. fu, no, but it's just a phenomenon. yes, i'm talking like phenomenology. what's another option? let 's make it more difficult to increase the degree of provocation, for example, not the father's and mother's genes that these people bear, but either the father's genes and the gene uh-huh or vice versa, when men something is wrong with its functions that attract a man, you mean the rather popular procedure of donor eggs that is now common. who we have sperm, which we even take to ourselves, in my opinion, somehow discussed. ah. how do you want me to answer, like a woman or like a psychologist, first, like a woman brightly, so that everyone wakes up, and then like a psychologist, so that everyone calms down. and
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i would probably be very scared as a woman and i would most likely hmm but would fantasize uh, various disturbing things about uh, scripts fate of this child. a. probably, i would rather decide on donor actions. uh, and i think that as a woman, i would have the strength to deal with this anxiety. ah, but i have questions in this place that i don’t have answers to either as a woman or as a psychologist . aha but still, it will turn out because of other alien genes. someone else’s child or my own child. well, listen, i don’t have dog genes, and our dog didn’t really joke to me completely devoured compared to not really now, because besides genes there is also, uh, a phenomenon, described by john balbey and not only by him, but the psychological attachment that
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is formed between mother and child. the point here is that it is an attachment. it is formed on both sides, not only women or men's parents conditionally , yes, it is attached to the object, but also, uh, the child is a dog, a kitten, native or not native, he is also attached in response, and such a two-way connection. she's strong enough and i don't know if she's less or more powerful than the genetic one, maybe more. even more than. all of us from horned motherhood are like a teenager, anya becomes attached, then, supposedly to her sister, but in fact, to her mother, then to one friend, then to another a teenager is going, looking for an adult. this is also a metaphor. actually the child of the searching parent. yes, but uh, i want to. uh, you know , remember also that we are talking about technological breakthrough a and about a series that
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reflects new technologies. able to radically change the society of the basic substance in the society of childbearing. but uh, the idea of surrogacy is not yesterday appeared and not even in the last century. no, more biblical stories, the wife did not give birth to a slave. yes, a slave gave birth, well, in indian society, by the way, ancient, it was pretty much that such a case is described in the bible, there is a plot there. but in principle, it was not uncommon. this is not only a single, biblical story , but in ancient rome, a husband could, uh, sell his own young wife somewhere for a while, and so that she would bear someone's child for a fee. yes, she returned home. it was like working. i mean, it looked like and as an act, again, well, trading in a sense in the human body and as an act of great love and, uh, sacrifice, when a woman, uh, a friend's sister or just another unfamiliar woman, and the victim was herself for the sake of her motherhood.
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well, there are not only victims, there they don’t particularly ask about slavery, how the maid’s story is actually in the series, but here it’s important to understand that from the point of view, that of antiquity , that of the middle ages their such local genetics, uh, concentrated on the father’s dna, that is paternal dna well defining yes maybe to be basta if it is illegal, but in general, if the fallen offered their genes. so you got along with this dna property titles, castles, peasants, which they believe are economically motivated. uh, actually, there is no motherhood. so now there is. the long-awaited premiere are you one of these gift surgeon oh no, i'm the secretary bandaging? we don't have a lock or not?
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of the popular science magazine schrödinger's code and visiting. we have svetlana karlash psychologist, psychotherapist. well, and my wife. and most importantly, during the preparation of this podcast, neither one kitty was not hurt, probably, we continue. now about the owners of services. that was clear in your middle ages of your antiquity. here is the slave owner. there is his slave, there are servants working there, now it is more and more difficult. that's who the servant is, who's the master, let's say, when i go to the doctor. he is not my servant. rather, on the contrary, he is now leading high. although he does not provide a service, i also pay a salary there to the maid butler, if i had butler maids, i call the plumber. he seems to be lower in social class, but you can’t look at plumbing. they drive off into the distance in a good
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car that you and i never dreamed of, it was the servants or the person providing the service. listen, but the truth is, uh, caste and such orthodoxy in society, yes, the division that was orthodox and uh, clearly defined in past centuries has fallen off. well, in fact, now it hasn’t fallen off in any way, our human nature, built on the dominant. and on the hierarchy of plumbing, and you are the dominants, as they were, so they are. thank you thank you and a question. who has more raspberry ass, it remains relevant. a what then what now yes, society the social pattern of society is changing, but crimson assholes are a priority and in this sense it is still somehow necessary to dominate even if there are no slaves and the lord but there are different social you say different social status. yes? there are different financial status. and again, yes, we define this inequality. as you say serves
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or does not serve. uh, well, in this case , more crimson ass. someone who has a lot of money, but you can also draw this more crimson ass. completely different character, for example, make a dominant surrogate mother. ah, well, it’s very simple a woman who can’t give birth herself, she, i ’m talking about antioge within the framework of a dystopia, such, uh, anti-boom. also as a thought experiment so that it doesn't hurt any, uh, audience. uh, in the sense of insulting feelings, for example, yes, a woman who cannot give birth, she is socially hierarchically lower, which, by the way, does not contradict the evolution of biology, because monkeys, who for the sake of cannot be monkeys in a hierarchical society occupying lower positions has, uh, fewer bananas and nuts and, accordingly, she is beaten much more often by some on the corner they are in a warm place, as soon as she gives birth to her. uh,
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social growth is in front of our eyes, and this is profitable and the more she gives birth, the more high-ranked male, the higher she rises. just imagine the woman that my mom is slicing, that's also a woman who can give birth, especially in our society where, uh, infertility is constantly on the rise and numbers that point to infertile couples, uh, at every conference on at every symposium, the listeners are simply shocked, and in this sense, a surrogate mother is , firstly, a high-class expert, such an astronaut, in fact, in childbearing, who delivers the child to a couple even then. uh, if we have a dominant, a crimson ass built differently, we shift it. from one place to another we have a high-ranking navigator and low-ranking, uh, lying at his feet , trying to get her attention with money
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or something else or real lines of women who, due to the fact that they are fruitlessly on more low special place. it seems to me that you can come up with a beautiful dystopian plot. it seems to me that they did it for the creators of the series. i just showed you now that and the question of inequality is solved by where is the dominant. and the dominant can be placed virtually anywhere. well, look, we still have it. is such a utopia less realistic than the reverse? why do women often lose prestigious places, for example, in science, having equal starts due to the fact that they went to give birth, but in our country, the truth is that society is mostly patriarchal and there is really complete equality in high positions, such as science and some managerial, well, there is no really complete equality. it's true, after all , the young karl marx wakes up in me. isn't there exploitation in this? well, the question is, there is a divided degree and i think it is connected to us and systems.
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yes, there is, a certain task and roles for men and for women, and uh, we have uh from a historical point of view. just yesterday, discord began about the fact that a woman is equal in rights, uh, a man and an equal partner for a man, and not his servants, a uterus on legs, and so on, that is, in this sense, and in this sense, there is a rather unambiguous one. the point of view, which is held by representatives of the feminist movement of the third wave , that surrogate motherhood is unacceptable, in principle, just from the point of view of objectification and the use of the female body for such a utilitarian use. yes, a and b in this regard. yes, this is the role from which a woman cannot get out for centuries , among other things, because inside her is also an integrated e, these stories are about the fact that she did not give birth defectively. yes, you will not be born there kicked out of marriage, out of town, out of family, out of
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society. anything. she, of course, can provoke the acquisition of a child at any cost and the offer of such a service, as usual, because, if there is a demand to obtain a child, yes, then there will be an offer, and women who are in difficult life situations, and in this sense. yes, there is another line of relations in society. e. to surrogate motherhood is actually like prostitution, as in the trade of love in people and the trade in one's own body. and when the body is literally rented out, even series title container. yes, it reflects. in a sense, this point of view, that it is difficult to simply sit, the mother of the heroes does not scream. you are a prostitute. you are a whore. here's how it responds to you. this is what to answer such a mother? well, in this sense, mother wants to support by the throat, in general, it’s not great there. the heroine game is simple.
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