i am very glad to see you and today we will talk about what you wrote in past years, what you write now and if you allow, uh, i would start the conversation with your cycle of books about fat. so after all, it is correct to say a series of books about leo tolstoy and even not only about him, but about those who are connected with him by very close ties or very complex ties. so right, when i wrote the first book or in the thick one, the flight of israel, i did not conceive of any cycle. eh, but then it happened. yes, you can say that the cycle and how many books are already already quite a bit of. the first is israel, then the saint against the lion. this is the tolstoy church. tolstoy, he is kronstadt, then a lion in the shadow of leo this word for later i had such a short complete biography of tolstoy leo tolstoy is free. the man who young

guard came out and the true story. anna karenina turns out five five books at the moment, the last one, as now the last one at the moment. we wish you new books - this is the true story of anna karenina. and tell me, please, how did it happen, but you did not expect the cycle to be thick, but what played a role here. uh, such a deafening success of the first book, i’m not afraid of this word, or the inexhaustibility of lev nikolayevich’s personality that it was, probably, success also played some role, when i wrote the flight of israel, not only didn’t think about success , i didn’t think at all that this book was someone someday he will print it and even, although they don’t believe me, but the book, he says, was published in 2010. it was the centenary of the departure and death of tolstoy, i did not think that there would be 100 years. it just happened to be a coincidence. yes, i was just interested in this topic

leaving tolstoy well, the book really had success. probably this played some role in the fact that i began to continue writing about tolstoy, but still not only not so much. it’s just that tolstoy is such a figure, mmm, that if you take on some topic in his life, in this case, death and departure, then some new incredible interesting topics will automatically pop up while i was working on this topic. i was interested in the topic, tolstoy's church , his conflict with the church. well, it's not new, but of course, not researched, not thought out. i would said, tolstoy nothing new seems to be written about everything. and yet. every time you open you discover something new. well, i would say that everything is written, er, i dare to argue. of course, there are classic books. this is boris himbab, for example, the author of a series of books, but i would say that tolstoy is not worthy of such attention. uh, like dostoevsky, for example, uh

, 40 books were published for the anniversary of dostoevsky, for example, 40 in one clip. shall we not offend anyone by naming any names? but generally speaking, i think that not enough, and such fundamental serious books, all the more understandable to the general public, i see well, probably the old tolstoy studies, so to speak, have left the schools, gudzi, goose, dai khenbaum. e hmm bulgakov a. zhdanov new is not that they did not come to eat, for example, a wonderful book. andrey zorin yes, tolstoy's life in my opinion. eh, viewed as text? yes, here is a biography biography of andrei zorin, yes. yes, a very powerful book. that's why it appears, it turns out that there the yasnaya polyana collections of the dpr work in the state tolstoy museum, which, well, yes

probably here is some such strong understandable tolstoyan school today, as before. it was possible, no, but i'm talking about something else. i'm talking about those books that, well, would help, uh , a very large wide circle of people take a fresh look at tolstoy, and your book was exactly like that, because i tell my student that you read pavel basinsky this person loves the late tolstoy and this well, it is very difficult to love the late tolstoy, really. i think there 's another moment where i once thought, what is the secret of the book's success? tikhonov shevkunova a not saints. well, i wrote. yes, today the water was written by a monk. so what? and he removed the fear of monastic life from the average

reader, because, well, an ordinary person imagines a monastery there is something incomprehensible, something of a mystical indication. look, they are ordinary people. they are not saints. although maybe saints and uh, that was the reason. well, apart from the fact that she is good, really reasons, the main reason. uh, here, in my opinion, success was just that. i think partly. the same thing happened to my thick book because, well, people form ideas from school. that's about this some very angry gray beard. means the old people who hung. yes, they perceive him as a late perception of all this tolstoy, in general of the whole world - this is hmm. a gray-haired old man with beards and bushy mustaches and with a very sitting look. and this kind of, so to speak, fear of this figure, and i wrote to him as a person, it turns out. mm tossed about it turns out he sinned, it turns out he had a complicated

relationship with his wife, like a complicated family history, like many of us. i think, this is what bribed this book to unhappy families. they are all happy in their own way, as we know, but really, but i think there was another fear or another prejudice, but these years, well, these years. let's clarify. it's about. uh, after anna karenina, probably, yes, the end of the seventies. anna karenina was published in the seventy-fifth dash 77. but the seventy-ninth eighties of the writing of the confession is such a turning point. e. i think that another important prejudice is that these years are perceived as a crisis and nothing more. well this is some kind of decline crisis of old age, or the case of the young tolstoy who writes kazakov there war and peace and other masterpieces. and this is something so mezheumochnoe not quite. uh, ripe or overripe, isn't it? well , i think that in the minds of most people, both

war and peace were already written with gray beards and fat. although this is, if young, of course, young still, yes, full of energy in general and uh twenty -eighth, fifty-eighth thirty years 63 35, but you and i have twice the consciousness of most people. this is so this is so this is war wrote down the world. here is such a tolstoy tolstoy here, therefore, and, of course, tolstoy after the spiritual crisis tolstoy philosophers tolstoy religious preacher and so on. and there is before the fat people have. eh, some such fear is also afraid, but it’s just that there is some kind of barrier to its perception. now, he's not really human. i would say so man. well, don't be afraid, right? like yeah. someone wrote that residents or such a teacher with a capital letter is sure to.

here, although caricature yes, yes, yes, i can’t be silent. that's m-m, what is my faith in what vera yes , what art was with the late tolstoy as we remember, this i remind our dear viewers. he refuses. here are the publications of works of art completely completely and publishes and writes writes you also only do not publish art. why publish dew loans should have been published. and here are some other things on sunday, it was finally the ninth year. no, at the beginning. yes in the beginning he just refuses the writer. he writes. uh, only such short stories. here how people are alive and so on. uh, well, then he writes more than that, uh, this is a common mistake. that tolstoy began to write worse after the spiritual upheaval? here is tolstoy during the war of the world anna karenina

- this is a delusion from an artistic point of view. excuse me from the point of view of style, this is a much more refined thing, and rather than anna karenina, especially war. i'm not talking about their zhimurat and father sergiy and the death of ivan ilyich sunday, how would it be another sin , they perceive this as really such a detailed moralizing, which but yes really sunday. this is a novel where the author stands behind the back of each character and breathes on the back of his head, it is felt, but in this there is also, uh, no, the avant-garde of this thing is definitely avant-garde, yes, because when you feel all the time, this is the author’s breath . here you have a slightly different impression. let's say in the root bath you rarely feel

tolstoy's breath when he condemns someone or someone often long ago vanilla, which is often yes, well, on sunday in this regard, they are interesting in the avant-garde of the eternal. she acts differently its impact can be compared, but it lets me. spectators, but with the impact of the black square compared to raphael's madonnas, we find it difficult to love him, like mmm something attractive beautiful graceful. yes, probably so. well, probably, yes, although it seems to me that katyusha maslova can, but you can love her eyes yes, yes, yes, well, we know that leaving is not only leaving yasnaya polyana, uh, in the fall of 910-1910, but this departure is what is the main thing for almost all the main characters of tolstoy and olenin in the story the cossacks and andrei bolkonsky of course and uh hmm prosecutor

golovin in the story about the death of ivan ilyich and their lyud v. of course they leave their usual life. this is what scopism is. yes flight, i would say, not even leaving. and that's it escape is not that escape from problems. rather, run away from yourself, from yourself. what happens to father sergius, what happens to the senin cossacks. uh, what 's going on with pierre bezukhov and balcony? yes, with anyone, with anyone from his main e, all his main characters, and the second - it was tolstoy's hmm. it's me. i found out in process, as if studying his biography, which is very important, tolstoy dreamed of how to change the general, er, disguise. here, it’s not just to get away from yourself, but to live under a different name. yes, no one knew who he was, as a result

, bulletins appear in the newspapers. yes, he is running he thinks that he disappeared in the third grade, he goes mixed with the people, and in the newspaper journalists write that leo tolstoy is such and such a station for such. yes, perhaps, therefore, therefore father sergius. yes, therefore, unfinished death. notes of the elders fyodor kuzmich the legend that alexander the first did not die in taganrog means, and he changed his body, the beginning of the country lived siberia e, tolstoy knew, of course , that this is a legend, but she was interested in him once he became her, how would this fake, in general, be artistically embody it is important . this is what interested him. fedya protasov yes , this efficiency of a corpse, yes, effective suicide, how would you live, but everyone thinks that you are no longer there. you live somewhere under some other name, and anna karenina of course, of course, warmed him. this is an idea. here warmed this idea, perhaps had a lot to do with it. is this possible? the most important thing hmm is the semantic distance between

leaving and running. flight is. well, so to speak, anywhere, if israel and then, probably, hell. perhaps this flight is not meaningful. probably this escape is not successful, so many people interpret the last escape 100 yes, he is going, uh, it has not yet been proven where yes is completely somewhere to the south, having visited optina pustyn yes, and quite accidentally catches a cold and falls ill. well, that is, this escape, as it were, failed, unsuccessful, maybe even meaningless, as many say, not me. eh, after all, the flight of israel - is it usually the flight of nonsense, darkness, external or not? how they settled in. the fact is that hmm, here you still need to distinguish. eh, a specific act, tolstoy was really running away from that one. in general, from the horror that happened at yasnaya polyana to the main one

, no, of course, of course, yes, through his fault. it was related to the will about it. well, i am writing there, it is quite detailed, but, and the second moment was really warmed by the topic of leaving. he tried to leave home several times throughout his life. it wasn't the first one. ah, and he really believed that he would rent a hut somewhere and live to take his daughter to him. sasha because you still need it. yes, maybe makovitsky will still be a doctor. hello, shower, yes, uh, and no one will know that this is the great tolstoy ; uh, here uh hmm yasnaya polyana uh, and he really wanted her unity, but he could not find him. of course, when did you wonder what, when he realized this, but he understood, it was on the train, when sasha brought newspapers from the station. and he

saw what he said, all the newspapers are full of my departures and literally in an hour the temperature rises there. and that means they were smoky in the car. yes, but it's all the little things, specifically, it happened after he saw, so he won't run away anywhere. well , i think it's still important to see it. maybe i'm wrong, and not only uh, such fame fatigue and so on, but deep, like the twentieth century. they would say an existential act is important. and in general , for russia, a very important act is an attempt, realizing the complexity of the way to avoid it is known. eh, this is the famous moment of the artsaman horror, and at the end of the sixties, when in such a dirty arzamas hotel room, he went there, completely for some business needs. yes, he suddenly realizes that well, i have my own point of view on the cast, they

don’t share it, they don’t share it. almost nobody. i don't attach much importance to moscow's horror. a what happened tolstoy just finished working on a double world, the work was monstrously intense with headaches, it was necessary to hand over everything already on time russian language no, yes, yes, and for a long time, yes, and now he finished. well, there, so to speak, he is already working there as proofreaders, and he is on his way. uh, means to buy the estate looked at the newspaper. here is some kind of nizhny novgorod province. so, there are quite cheap lines. and, most likely, just drive through and really treat. prior to that, he sat in blue yasnaya polyana and wrote, he war and peace. here he leaves it turns out that it's night in the hotel and he is attacked by an inexplicable fear, but in fact, well, now it's called a panic attack, really inexplicable and that 's why it's scary, because he can't

explain to himself what's wrong. what was he afraid of? well, they just lost their nerves, they just lost their nerves in unfamiliar surroundings. but you never know, which is also curious that the next day he writes about this with his arzamas horror with the office. andreevna corresponded every day when he was leaving somewhere. there, two letters a day , they wrote nothing, and he writes that he does not write anything. talks about the fear of death. there's not a word. he just says here attacked, this longing for me , i can’t explain, then he says, the next day. she returned to me again, but i was already ready for her. and so it was not so scary. but 10 years later, when he writes notes of a madman, he remembers this and explains it with the fear of death. and there the red square appear. here is something like red square, this is a wonderful definition for tolstoy, as an artist, to use real cases of real people, he mercilessly used real people for

his characters, because in the late seventies. yes, indeed, the fear of death comes to him, just after which, after writing anna to a career, but still it seems to me, i think that our opinions do not contradict each other, because but this fear is angst, what he wrote about kerk yegor says it in different ways. hmm, this is the ultimate fear, without a reason for fear. it is not fear, to lose a loved one or homeland or some thing. yes, this is the limit absolute fear. at 19, i was left alone. for some reason here they are social ship. current art will be banned. yes, this is a zhmulya, tell me, you are ranevskaya yes, i am ranevskaya

the war has not experienced anything in her own skin. we look at this face, there are many directors exclusively, but there can be only one great meeting. i'll make a challenge to come, seriously, smart man, and you 're grimacing. husband there are families without children. that's so coffin devoted art. film from monday on the first happy birthday to leo tolstoy i remind you on the air

literary podcast. let them not speak, let them read. i'm dmitry bug talking with literary critic pavel basinsky. and now i remind our viewers that, in the middle of a conversation, we usually have such an interruption. this is a peculiar, and the genre of conversation, uh, with an interlocutor and with the audience at the same time and we do one of the three, either we read a poem or demonstrate and stroke some old book that i love, or maybe the audience loves it too, or we consider acquaintances quote from the classics. and today we are reading the poem is a poem by arseny aleksandrovich tarkovsky, my favorite poet, and a very famous e. and the poem - it needs to be reviled. well, first of all, am. tarkovsky is known as a supporter of exactly

the rhyme of classical verse; he had articles about this, but in the first one with trophy there is absolutely. uh, the unconventional strange rhyme begins the poem so the soul that flared up on the fly was not seen in the white room, where in the fingers of the merciful sorceresses the child's body gently warmed, but look, what is the rhyme here, but, but the soul that flared up on the fly, no. merciful sorcerers is a rhyme that consists of the end of a line on the fly and the beginning of the next line. this is, well, such an absolute enumeration, which is very typical for tarkovsky, but even this is not important, but it is important that here we see the implementation of the key theme of tarkovsky very often in russian literature in world literature. we see a description of death, a description of the moment when the soul leaves the body, when the body

parted with the soul, eternal, they are indestructible , the soul returns to the lord for the believer a person or closes the circle of reincarnations for people of other faiths, and the theme of tarkovsky is different. and what happens to the soul before it enters this body. uh, this is hmm uh, an obstetric poem. what is it called ? yes, it's not entirely clear, but this poem is about one's own birth. and as a matter of fact. and if you understand this, then the future becomes very, but clear, intelligible and prophetic the soul flashed on the fly , the whites did not see in the room, where in the fingers of the merciful sorceresses the gently warm ripe body of rain, posada passed the day before and dry the earth did not have time for so many lilacs in june that the radiance of the sky turned blue, and in july and august

there was so much light from three windows and so much light into the sky by fountains. beat that my soul and beyond the grave in the day of creation, as the soil is warmed up in this poem. eh, as if the poet absorbs the moment of his birth , which we don’t know about and tolstoy talks about it, we don’t know the birth and death of tolstoy there is a wonderful fragment, known when his good hands wash some kind of lohana there, right? uh, a well-known fact absorbs here in an obran, as it were, a moment birth and the moment of death, because tarkovsky was born on june 25, such a peak of summer. uh, ivan kupala is close and so on. and here, my soul, and beyond the grave in the day of creation, how the soil is warmed up. this is what we see right now. that is, here there is such a shift in time and e. in this poem, analyzing the moment the soul enters the body, the poet speaks to

us through death, we see this overcoming time in the poem. eh, arseny of tarkovsky, which we have just read. well , now let's go back, uh, to elf tolstoy and, most importantly, to pavel basinsky. let's let's go back in time in our podcast, it is customary to talk about hmm such an anthropological dimension of fate. well, how did it happen that pavel basinsky, who e, was born in volgograd e, southern man became e, a student of a literary institute, but at first it seems to be a student of the faculty of foreign languages. what happened at saratov university and how you came to literary criticism, where you served , how it all began many years ago. tell us please well never of course in childhood there boyhood i don't i thought i would become a literary critic. even

the writer began to write. i had many different mosques, but such children's ones, from aquanaut to international journalists, and in order to travel, i didn’t want to travel abroad to see measures, of course, and so on. it seemed to me that the most beautiful trees in the world are palm trees. yeah, and then i realized, after all, birches. they are, well, the figures of our time with you. yes, foreign surveyed. well , yes, club program 6. what did you like to travel? here, and what i will become critics, then i definitely didn’t think saratov university , i entered simply because, firstly, i wanted to study at the university, and secondly, well, to be honest, i wanted some kind of independence and again there. i entered in order to learn english well and then to be and march. yes, birches are wonderful logic. so i didn’t even know about the existence of a literary institute. i just didn't know, but

i accidentally came across e in my hands. uh, literary russia now i remember where there was an announcement about a creative competition, which is held at a literary institute. just what a fateful day, as they say now, yes, pavel basinsky in saratov ends up in literary russia and i sent him there. well, uh, i quickly wrote some two articles, even to say rather literature, i sent such eyelids . i was sure that, of course, i would not get anywhere. there will be an institute. well, everything, the lord just sent and left with the second detachment. and then here is the clutch. yes, fate further to me there came a rumor yes, yes, the clutch arrived on a motorcycle, my friend just took a ride to me. i say come on here, let's go to the city, they arrived there. this is me going to the hostel. i am looking at a letter from this institution. you passed the competition, and before admission, before admission , there is something not a day and a half, she is there for 2 weeks, for example,

that is, after 2 weeks you have to be in moscow with documents, that you have already dropped out of exams? yes? and ready to pass, well pass the exam. maybe yes it was. so, in general, i did all this quickly, quickly, which means i did it, i arrived, but i didn’t enter. the first one was very funny because i passed. uh, there are also four exams, plus a swamp, by the way, a middle swamp. well how now school food anyway yes, the average score was five four eczema us gave five five, four, that is, well, just one point for the full package, i do not enter, but they only took two critics. there were three of us in general for criticism, but they took only two here. that year the economy of the country was decided. yes, there were two critics, the wonderful sasha lucifer and, uh, larisa shulman, whom i was friends with and they are friends

, uh, they got all the pyaterochkas in the exams, and therefore they took me no, at the same time, damn well, therefore, well, they simply took more and took more. that's why i was terribly offended by moscow, even wrote about it, then the story prisoner of moscow. yes, i just perceived in moscow somehow such an enemy, which i must defeat in the end. yes , just yes, david and the goliath, i just came for the second year, i went through competitions again and did so, i got criticized and criticized. actually did it. it was the course. it was the course of the village of alekseevich surganov , to whom he was terribly grateful, who did not only my teacher, in general, my own father was often at home with him. why he loved me very blessed to me, and i am terribly grateful to him. well, literature, by the way, on

gorky as a result, because he was the head of the department of soviet literature, and i wanted to graduate from the institute for graduate school. so i thought that i would write about feta, there was a thesis, well, alexei told me the village, you know, there in the country, again, well, that’s why this village of alekseevich also began me in general. he made me study, but i am terribly grateful to him, because then gorky simply became a part of your big ones. we remember, tell me, what is the literary institute of that time, according to my perception from the outside. i did not study there, but i was friends with many. as you know, this is after all such an island of freedom. much more was said at the lecture. what could be seen in print or at moscow state university, of course. well, it’s completely free to teach or they said, she’s god gumilev. yes, they quoted it. yes? gumilyov

well, maybe, uh, actually brodsky. actually they said calmly, well, of course went. uh, the most danish things are there in the hostel and no one because of it. in general, especially. it seems to me that they did not bring a literary podcast on the air. let them talk, let them read. i am dmitry bak talking with literary critic and journalist pavel basinsky. in a word, there will be a literary institute, and then criticism, but we already know that in the finale there will be a m-th book about tolstoy. this is not a criticism, absolutely yes, how does it exist? you now have a whole book, it is not one. so i show her with uh, a violinist is not needed. it's uh romance with criticism like here it is said that this is a collection of various materials about criticism, there are other books. and yet, how is it, uh, there is still a critic in your self-consciousness. eh, in my opinion, the understanding of this

man who does not think in books. he still thinks in terms of some point reviews, responses, portraits, he reacts to what is happening right now, of course, yes, well, with criticism. i had two stages. here is a novel. yes, a novel with criticism, because at first i was lucky that i would immediately be at this institute when i studied and would be published in a literary newspaper for students. it was impossible absolutely unrealistically impossible, but i will not hide it. and just drove the literature worked. uh, a very great friend of my parents, a restart of andrianov's bitterness, which is not something to say, uh , they printed me because he said there was no printing, uh, just because uh, i took on what they didn't want take other criticism, what kind of abusive criticism? oh, by the way, that's because basinsky of that time is a synonym for such a zail. yes, yes, yes, i became a zail, so

i printed such filiton ones, but it’s also very funny, because this is soviet time this is the eight-early eighties and the authors could not be called by name. because if you call them by their names, despite the fact that a literary newspaper is not a newspaper, true, but criticism nonetheless. we considered it directive. well, of course, yes, if you name the author, they will stop simply throwing him out of the task of this critic. it was just a firing squad. yes, yes, here is a literary newspaper, so i scolded. well, he didn't call, it was very funny. i even want to re-read it all somehow, but you have a magazine in the novel of one the author, says there is such nonsense. still , it was named after her. yes, but they called it hmm and uh, but the thing is that i still stumbled on a minute, because i wrote, and the prose of a woman, and then i, if

a person of the light is intense, it’s wonderful to write a writer, right? and she says, something in general made us throw out all the plans, all all the female authors were thrown out, because in the literary newspaper there is criticism of women's prose, and it stopped doing criticism just for a long time until the early nineties. it was really easy when she stopped being director. yes, yes, and in the ninety-first year i was invited to work simply by a literary newspaper, andrianov continued to work there, but petrovich zolotovsky, he told me, became the editor of the department. he read one of my whole cycle of such reviews, we liked it. he invited me to work and gave me such a complete map of everything that he wanted, anyone, whatever, at the moment pool. yes? i even

remember a little today with shame, this is because there was a certain hunter in it. azat is not well liked critics of the left and the rights about the literary , after all, the liberal newspaper has always been a children's article. famous with a gun. you know, people remember, the man is still scared and scolded about the khan. we have a terrible man in the studio to get him on the fence. or rather, i'll type it was dangerously wrong, but it seems to me, for a young critic. it's not bad. well, uh, after all, i don’t like it when young critics are so toothless , you have to be toothy after all, as if to show that i was a little afraid. and tell paul and the current criticism. doesn't she pretend then, in order to become directive again, that these are wrong, and read the correct ones, but you don’t read these, after all. it probably is, of course. well, it was. it was even in the soviet years, what about today? i think it's a different problem. she hmm she's

reformatted by criticism. it seems to me that today she still leaves the blog. although, uh, the cree still somehow don't want to recognize this critical blagosphere, strictly speaking. uh, because there's no criteria, right? what i want, i write, it's really like that on the other hand, and a blogger is terribly dependent on his subscribers. they must like it in order to be able to create some kind of information strips. you need artificial ones if he has fed a certain number of his subscribers. he he can't say things that they won't like. understandable, understandable, therefore, too, perhaps even more dependent than when, for example, i worked in a literary newspaper. it's clear, but uh, i would sum up our conversation with a formula, the formula is that uh, it's not so important an evil critic or a kind one is important is he good, uh, sensitive, or is this a property of many, many works by pavel basinsky, as criticism, we said, uh, at the end.