well, let's, we can hold this in parallel

in modern life. isn't everything the same, but imagine, and in your own well -known media company, even if we are talking about the light of that time, this is a media person. and you are married to a man who corrects you as a child, and their friend. and you start to openly get caught by the paparazzi in the photo together, and with some young. well, let, well, okay, not with a hammer. yeah i don't know a young musician, yeah, anyone who's a young rapper a young rapper is fine. and your husband tells you, my baby, of course, i'm all i understand, but i have already seen several times several children. yes, i own a soviet chronicle. we all know. well, first of all, don't make her a grown man laugh. i am your husband. i provide you for us a child, so the knees, as i understand it, i think about the child it flickers. as times books know,

that with him will he thinks about banna. uh, naturally, if anna's reputation is destroyed, then it will affect the fate of the child. and there is such an absolutely wonderful passage. i think it's the same in modern times, one might say, but karenin says i will uh give her a divorce at the very beginning when he thinks. this is what will happen, he will leave her, then the next and then the next lesson will go, he cares and thinks, in general, karenin loves. and husband. i think yes. just imagine. why, uh, the husband of correction asks his wife, who he provides for everything and gives her the opportunity to hang out in the world and be just a beauty dress up dress up raise a child. they tell him, she brings up the time the governess will be combed washed and fed. she just tells him seriously choosing outfits to from paris yes , which costs a fortune i ask you one thing, that she will not laugh at you for a long time in the world, so that it does not get into the newspapers. it seems to me that anna's act speaks

of the fact that she was milling these rules of secular dultery. and in general, this is a hypocritical structure of society where yes, everyone really changes everyone meets in hotels on the waters, but this is by no means and, uh, husbands and families agree with this, but it should be her, despising this color to get into it to strive, but stop cheat on her husband over two. in my opinion, it’s years to divorce him, as karenin suggests that she marry bronsky, who also offers it to her, by the way, the russians talk about what she already does when she goes to choose. we cannot return to the light. and by the way, she also has a wonderful one; they bring her to the dacha. rather, at a dacha in a village outside the city, he wrote that, and not both of her men and her husband or lover, they say, anna , please don’t do it right. uh-huh this says and vronsky both offer her some options. how can this situation? and

to be honest with her, she doesn't. this is, perhaps, a manifestation of her character. what do you think elina is a man, when he is attracted to a woman, he thinks about being intellectual. it doesn't matter to him, you think it was important to tolstoy that anna should be smart. does she have to be smart to be liked? but no, but it’s not important for the reader, the reader can draw his own conclusions whether she’s stupid or smart, let’s say , and it seems to me that she’s just a narrow-minded woman, and quite charming, but if we talk about my opinion, that is, you think that she, uh, making this move , let's say, announcing her romance, starting. uh, invite your lover home, yes, and going out with him into the house. she did not expect that it would have such consequences. she did not think about the consequences, because for a long time she gets away with everything. well, why did i need this? oh, you know, i think it's perfect. wonderful novels step-by-step

instructions on how to communicate, how to consider ah, a narcissist and a manipulator. that is, you think she is a narcissistic manipulator, and everything is written there in black and white. i can’t refuse tolstoy, but i constantly have a counter question. and who among us is not a manipulator, we understand that anna destroys the lives of people around her, this is objective. she destroyed karenin's life, she destroyed her life, perhaps she destroyed the life of bronsky's son seryozha, because in the finale of the novel we understand that he was broken , both men lost their careers, son. uh lost, the mother had a psychological trauma there. that is , i understand that anna is a bad influence on her environment. and this is probably her biggest sin. but uh, can we say that she, uh, commits uh, a crime deliberately, that is, this is her manipulativeness, how it manifests itself, i would not say that she

does it directly consciously. that is, she wants to destroy all lives. so i think that at some point she just saw what she only wants and she got up to subordinate all the circumstances and all the people around her that i want to subordinate to this desire, and so it will be. yes , that's right, but is it about love? look, but there is a certain paradigm, heroic. yes. eh, a heroic hero destroys such a certain myth. uh, hmm , another world doesn't create a good enough world. yes, that is, his some kind of revolutionary act. or can we change the world around, we can say that anna wants to change the world to change the hypocritical rules of society or not? no, i think it's on purpose, but he doesn't want to. so moreover , unless you change, does it build new and good ones, that's the question. look, i

wanted to talk about something, and it's very fine. you led me to this question. and can we say that leo tolstoy is a moralist and, er, a fallen woman dies under the wheels of a train precisely because she deserved it. well, at least that's how he positioned himself. what do you think, uh, tolstoy condemned ana if in life, and tolstoy talked with a woman who did this, he would condemn her. i'm sure of this. i, too, but here he acts as the author of the novel, respectively, this is his heroine, he is in love with her and fall in love. i don't think he's directly in love, but he was there for enchanted. in a sense, the expression that is in this woman, and i don’t think that he wrote with condemnation of her as a woman, but the version of the novel was called well done women. the first is that he is already young do not forget that

tolstoy is generally characteristic of irony yes , for some reason we always forget about it. he was a very limited person. yes, unbelievably read more e letters that they had in yasnaya polyana, such a family post where everyone wrote some of their own letters, joke notes , everything that they could read, wrote something, lev nikolaevich yes. you see, how much there really is such, uh, irony yes, which is under this condemnation, what do you not understand? seriously, he or he laughs at it. that's why i think he didn't judge. it is, but he knew her path was leading her there. this is wholly human. it seems to me that the unambiguity of this position presents us with tolstoy as prayerists, because it’s clear that if a person follows the path of violation there, for example, i don’t know marriage vows and the rules of society. he is sure and goes to the death of aglaya, but we all uh, actually. of the sea, we are all social

animals, we are social people, we live in society. we live by certain rules. and as soon as we start to break them all, without offering. nothing new in return, without dragging the crowd behind your bright ideas, then, in principle, you turn out to be a really, very disastrous situation. by the way, do not forget that anna was a mafinist in the time of tolstoy and actually karenina morphy was the only painkiller, and therefore e did not yet understand how it affects, i must say in russian they have at that moment conflict. he is against it. that is , he understands that this is not very adequate, let's say. so she was already using morphy as a sleeping pill, as a means to calm down and why was she worried about how her relationship with the russian developed in general after they fled to italy difficult why because anna demanded proof of love, and the man who donated career, yes, and in so to speak, fit into this strange revolutionary situation. he, he

went to meet her. so he stayed with her. he did not leave her leg to escape her divorce, he takes responsibility, that is, a good man, by the way, behaves. in this case, very thanks during the book, but nonetheless at the end of them. uh, it feels like love. eh, she's gone. is there such a feeling or is it some kind of anna's fantasy ? i think so. anna created this feeling in her relationship, because she is enu for the first time. yes, she experienced some strong feelings and passion for one man. i didn’t think about copper here, which, probably, the problem is that i no longer had a choice. that is, so she saw this bronsky and gave him, as it were. yes, all my passion. although if there were any options, by the way , i think this is an interesting idea, because i also had the feeling of a root-bath, that she is very energetic, let's say. so there is something to say, the world has something

to do? it has energy for some changes around and this energy is too much for the root, but it does not absorb it at all. eh, these are how then her potential and who gave her intelligence, please, like katya said who who got in the way, to that one, she gave her everything, having accumulated and possibly. by the way, because she couldn't work to express herself in any other way. she expresses herself. eh, on the topic of love or in your life i will say. yes, i couldn't work. and leo tolstoy, by the way, was very respectful of married women. and there he has such a massage about kitty that levin gives me a rest and somehow behaves in general. well, in some way. femininity at the beginning of marriage, because what a big job she has to do in front of a and the liars, by the way, show themselves to be a wonderful talented host when they leave the city, but in general they will give with this little girl. first of all, she has children. well, at least a daughter from a beloved man

. god, what a charm, little, baby. secondly, there is a house, and vronsky is fond of architecture, they subscribe to magazines, and she began to read something there to retell him there is a household, and there is an upbringing that a school will pick up. in the end, or hospitals. you can find yourself there, but instead it irritates her terribly, what vronsky spends on this time you say, but that part of the story, when a woman has already lost her reputation, she lost her son. i'm telling you to start at the beginning of the novel. she carries huge energy charges with her and thinks, who would realize it when we are and really thinks to whom to hand it over, she perfectly realizes it shines in the world, and in st. petersburg she already seems to me, a recognized beauty, and we see.

here is his brother, and also, in general, the moral quality of high marriages, whom the wife left, well, she didn’t leave, she took shifts with the maid, it was found curious that leo tolstoy he often emphasizes this

sibling, that here is a brother and sister from us satan. look, she's reconciled with his wife. you say that says that she is a good bright person. she reconciled, she reconciled, they ask her, would you forgive anna's betrayal and immediately no, well, her first movement. he says leo tolstoy is written, because she remembered that the world says it, well, yes, well, yes, it's just that he is also a moralist. yeah, well, actually, probably, yes, i i think that e. how to say? you can love, you need to love, but you can’t lie to be hypocritical , you can change your life and you need to change your life, but at the same time you can’t destroy the lives of others and trample on. she, on the contrary, tries to be all the time. uh, direct from the morning of the house. she says what is convenient for her and when it is convenient for her when it comes to divorce. you can't get a word out of her, and they ask karenin from him. tell me what you want from her. he says voronsky should get a divorce, we should

get married. you have a child, but she yuli's time is good, women are the most strict judge. i'm watching elina look at her and probably hard incredible incredibly hard and hmm kind of trying. that is, you remove yourself from it. here she is a figure that does something terrible to do and so on. and try it. well understand, at least the reviews that go and the readers on the book, true story. she is a root. they mostly dislike negative women. guy they are aggressive towards, really. moreover, people, well, women aged who experienced some life experience already understood that this is not an ancient shroud. well, it may already be such that some such maternal overbearing is already being born, that i know how to live and i will teach you. yes, i 'll tell you how not to. here you do it badly and so on the person inside became roman , he was 44 years old. he was a mature man and

mature. but at the same time still energetic. believe me, men, and even he did not treat her as hard as a woman treats her, after all, he is a young man and at the same time time, he is already a mature person, that is, you don’t understand, i read the book, i see that he is enough with my own eyes, of course, you think, of course, yes, let’s, uh, say, oh about the situation when a modern woman goes through a divorce, look . elina, you divorced two similar children. no , i mean not the situation. well, yes. in general yes in general was such an experience. tell you. uh, as far as i know this divorce was quite loud in the context of a dramatic environment. yes, you are dramatic. please tell me about how you lived it, maybe be the origins of your relationship to karenina lie. although maybe yes. you know, i do not think that the crime against karina is not in

passion and not in love. if it can be called love, and it seems to me that the crime is that by manipulating people it does not give them anything. and let's say, when i was going through a divorce, perhaps the most painful thing was that very moment when you cannot negotiate with a person. you offer different options for yourself to the detriment of any of these and you are just waiting for a direct answer and direct action. but i i think each of us is not important in the divorce of places in such a situation faced once you get absolutely. and the signals here is this famous formula given a double message, a double message yes. well, yes. well, and i, and you did not guess. and you did wrong. you went there and in general, of course, well, it doesn’t closely resemble my situation, but, nevertheless, you understand that we don’t touch the reason at all. i just want to talk to you about whether your life has changed, you've uh gone through a divorce, and we're talking about a modern context. kitty's story thank god that's all so it happened, so to speak, reading

karenin's novel. you have the feeling that she describes the situation. is that what it could be like today or do you feel the difference in times in these rules of the context? divorce is absolutely not. you don't become a guy. you don't have to pass. eh, lord, what is it called, not an archive. yes, well, to make a decision , is it possible to explain through church dimensions why you are leading a divorce? yes , it's usually adultery. there is such a moment when, in fact, anna da started, and karen ready to take on sirenin was ready to take take this blow and tell the synod to get a divorce that an adulterer, it would turn out that she had all the cards in her hands, there is a man who is ready. yes, take on believes. you will notice, really cool. yes , questions. lucky women. you know perfectly well. they both take care of her. can i contribute a large say. so historical can be here the fact is that the process of divorce in the xix century, it is more complicated than

everything. today it's really harder in case a hmm adultery yes anna is accused she can't marry further by law and, accordingly, children cannot continue to live with her. that is, if indeed the situation is revealed, as it is. she loses the opportunity to marry bronsky officially. and this is very important officially. so he can’t, respectively, leave himself an earring, but the option that is offered. well , which karenin persuades steve and he agrees to this situation, when karenin takes the blame, respectively, he cannot marry, but he agrees. he can't be anymore. even more than that, can you imagine give a ten-year-old child to be brought up to a woman who cheated on you and lives in general with some strange man. come on, he could look at it in a completely different quality. they take advantage of such a generous offer from karenin, so i have such a character than she is. leaves because she is not a smart

woman. well, wait, what is the mind? so she really didn’t want the korenin to look noble, because he did n’t cheat on her and anyway she didn’t want to set her husband up like that, because she didn’t want to look stupid in this situation. that eat it and the body will be heroin. she is, yes, and then she will come, yes, and still say, a noble person. yes and what is already obtained? mom's nose will be cut off, let's try to answer the question. why did the novel about adultery become the pinnacle of world literature? well conditionally. yes , we will rely on authorities here. i think there are a few things here. the first is, firstly, not only balderi's novels , that is, we take this line as the main one, but in fact, if this novel did not have so many very interesting characters diverse each, which develop

somehow adjoins themselves. everyone has their own stories, and if we didn’t read any manifestations of life in it, then, well, this novel was not a westermere. in my opinion. just a line from dulter. wouldn't have that effect. and as for why this topic is here, yes it becomes? it seems to me only outrageous novels, and at the same time this is the pinnacle of art. why do you say that, because, and dulter is, let's say, forbidden love, right? that is , this is not open, not official love, forbidden as you know, yes, love is one of the brightest feelings and a person begins to manifest himself in different ways and experiences very sharp emotions precisely because it is such a bomb in itself the concept of forbidden love and secret love love. it's impossible there. yes, and it contains great energy in the situation itself and in the situations that a person

lives and the very feeling of love. this is euphoria and this is suffering. this set of all such poets is set to no one, but for some reason it is anna karenina, e, who is considered a model very accurately and a lot, but it shows what happens to the person inside. i think this is psychology. it seems to me that this novel, in principle, is not even about love at all. but it seems to me that this is a novel of pride. interesting a. i think this is a romance of pride. everyone in this novel, he goes a long way and fights with his pride as best he can, in fact, and alexei karenina meets. as a matter of fact, face to face with his pride, a and levin e. and kitty in general , the brightest. here is a photo truly, you brighten up the character. in fact, someone goes this way and it leads him to the destruction of the whole world, because someone is not about someone who copes is defined, well, as too much potential that was

used by the wrong big potential, but let's say, as it seems to me, not on side of goodness, tell me, do you think, uh, the charm of this novel is its mystery, its miracle, what is it? i think it's lovely if the heroine is a narcissist, how do you think and the destroyer really repeat, this is the path of a narcissist and a manipulator that each of us has experienced, either one can recognize oneself in this mirror, including the rather harsh narcissus velikole real portrait of a woman and the destruction of personality destruction of personality impunity first the destruction of personality and it was very rightly said. yes, she wants and she wants it to be brought to her, but this does not happen in life. and this is where it ends? i'm just an old owl, and the oldest of you. and so, if we talk about love, and it is in this novel, but this is not anna karenina's love, then i immediately recall the message of paul apostle paul corinthians love will endure love is merciful, love does not depend does not envy does not seek its own unthinking evil, and does not rejoice

in unrighteousness, they will rejoice in the truth. and now i have a question, if we are talking about love anna high-calorie where in these words? she is arkadyevna , i have no answer. and i also want to tell you about how i see why this novel is still attracting attention is interesting from my point of view hmm tolstoy as a moralist hmm wanted to make a story about how bad it is for your woman these are against society, uh, and do some nonsense, and in the end everything bad girls and get their own punishment. yes, he painted her, so to speak, as a bad mother and so on. that is, we can understand that a girl is a bad, bad, very girl, but it seems to me that e strength is a romance in that tolstoy, e, he still loves it like a man. fascinated by this sexual force that brings destruction with it. this is how

the goddess of potassium understands, that is, this is a simple woman who meets with such and the concepts of a woman who give birth to children come from. they are a good mother tolstoy admires them, of course, but his soul yearns for women like her, and i think that this is a wonderful portrait of a femme fatale, based on such a paradox of the author. well, of course, otherwise such a magnificent romance of a girl would not have happened. thank you for coming to me. this was a must-read podcast. i had art critics visiting. lina grinchina and writer ekaterina babanyaga. i am the director of the writer, the main batnikov, the host of the podcast. triggers and with you again today we are sergei on

ourselves and tatyana krasnovskaya, psychology and psychotherapists. hello and today in our studio. marina came i had such a request literally. i recently realized that i am not aware of my femininity. what is it? well, about the fact that i am a management and i have such a more masculine character, and how my position, as it were, obliges me. still keep myself, so lately i have been trying to consider a woman in myself, yes, only a woman who i will like, what i should be there. and that's what literally recently, i hmm realized that i'm chasing, for some such a certain pattern of this femininity as a common pattern. it must be some kind of vanilla femininity there, yes, there is a vanilla woman, there mimimi there, i don’t know, i hate it.

i realized that this is not about me, but i'm chasing this, but it's not about me at all, and well, it's just one little man literally there a few days ago , a girl told me, she says, i like your femininity so much. she is special to you, she is different to you. i realized that i mean it, i do not see it. well, that is, i don’t understand what kind of mine it is and i’m chasing some kind of template. that's for just such that i want to consider it. and apparently i don’t accept it, as far as i understand myself again, if for some reason i drive others for this vanilla according to your control as a result of the fact that your masculine character or yet you have a masculine character, because that you are in control. good question. i think one follows from the other. i have been on my own since childhood. since childhood, i have not been involved, almost my parents. that is, i have always been left to myself, even somewhere, right from childhood, they delegate to me some duties that, in

principle, are not suitable for a child. well, yes, well, i mean at that moment, that's why i think that's probably all, i've always been responsible. i had to be responsible. i have always been the eldest, as it were, well, accordingly, in the course of i manage. then , as it were, the logic builds up a little differently, because you started with the fact that i am a manager, and therefore i have a masculine character. now it's turning around a bit. and as a consequence is being revised, because well, we it is necessary, of course, to detect some determinism, but elements of the psyche, and the determinism of the events of your last year, so that we can understand, so to speak, where it all could have begun and started, and you have younger brothers, sisters , younger brother, younger by 8 years. yes, for eight eight years i am now 42 years old, in fact, my parents have grown from us. yes, this period,

what you remember about it, i practically don’t remember, but this period. some kind of small flashes there, some kind of new year there, i don’t know, there some went to visit. well, here's something like that, i really remember myself, just the same, when i started to remember better, when my brother appeared. i abruptly became an older older adult. that's it, i've been here for 8 years. i was already an adult, but before that, but i don’t remember, no, it’s not like that. come on, let's go visit. i'm mom dad. yes, how old are you at this moment, whom did you go to visit, what is happening right in the present tense. describe friends of my parents, very good friends. there was a certain company there, there were just three or four families, i don’t remember exactly, and we constantly, if we were going to some holiday events, especially the new year. for some reason, i remember the new year, it was just, but these families. we were children, i

was, well, a girl and another boy, who is older than me, everything that i remember myself is sitting at the table at the table. they somehow communicate on their own topics there, who are in the same room, who is in the kitchen here smokes something else there. i feel somehow in my own empire. why, well, i want to say some kind of my mirok, that is, i go to them i don't relate. i myself play relaxed. but in principle, somehow here, but how would they describe you. here is marina with us, she is what an independent. here's a marina will always put there take. yes. hmm. well, i mean, marina isn't going anywhere, yeah, yeah. it looked like some form of indifference towards you. yes, i still have a feeling, that is, that , well, as if unloved, probably, yes, they didn’t give it to me or somehow i don’t know, like

a girl. yes, i always have the feeling that i was mine. and i even as a child i always played with toys, but i don’t know, a machine gun, a ball, there was something like that, that is. well, here's the boy, everything seems to be your choice, or is it still how you were brought up. this is most likely, it would not be mine, it seems to me. why do you think you could have chosen being a boy the first phrase that comes to mind? did the pope want a boy? dad wanted a son , he said, right? well, somehow here in some conversations. i heard it so not that directly he told me that, well, no, i first wanted a boy, i don’t remember this. yes, but in some that dad really wanted a boy. if i now ask you to imagine such a picture, imagine a separate department. and the woman in labor is lying and this is your mother. and so she gives birth and are born. here you

see a little girl. what feelings do these events evoke in you? this is a picture a picture, but i see, mom, here's a picture, as if here i am in my mother's arms looking at her and what do you feel? here you were born girls in your arms? perhaps they did not know who would be born, then it was not yet time to give birth. this is a surprise for them. surprise. and dad dad is not around. well, when he sees you, what are the feelings of his fantasies of the time that i see when dad came, when dad is around? dad is also happy, well, just at some point, for some reason, you decided marina that you need to be a boy, that in

order for dad to be around you need to be a boy, because the child is generally, in principle, oh, he is not sexually aware he does not understand his gender for a very long time. what is the difference between boys and girls, that is, it is only in relation to adults. yes, there girls dress up in pink boys are dressed in blue, but the child does not have a sexual gender. in fact, when you asked me about who, there, who decided to become a t-shirt, that is, is it yours or is it not yours? yes, here i am back, as it were, yes, and there is no such thing. well, who is a boy or a girl? just like i want to say that i'm a favorite child. well, in the sense, yes, the child came out in this sense, there i am , yes, i am of my decision. no, i don't see it there. i am, well, then marina grows, and at some point marina still, as it were

she is faced with the information that she is marina marina is not misha yes, and marina needs to choose somehow at this moment, but now marina chooses toys for boys. i will assume that at this moment your own rejection of the fact that you are a woman a girl at that moment occurred, if so, what could cause this rejection of the female essence. how interesting, now such a picture appeared in my head and the phrase was such yes, dad wanted a boy. mom wants to say that mom is cool, that is. well, here's the relationship with mom cool, but you feel dad more. i want dad to feel good accepting more. that's probably, yes, because in this way he will understand more, as if more understandable, as it were. well, yes, and

that's why it's vanilla , it's not clear to the pope how to deal with it, as if there was this feeling. mom is far from being a vanilla person; in general, she was like dad loved mom. dad was soft. dad was kind, dad was attentive, dad did things that are still remembered, he and such moments and hmm what well, let's say, there with any holiday. well, what a holiday. we still sleep. he woke up very early and ran for flowers. and well, roughly speaking, we woke up with flowers. here it is around the face. well, that is here. well, i don’t know, for me it’s a bright holiday on march 8th. it wasn't just him on march 8th. it's a birthday. it's some kind of holidays there mmm. well, he often tried. well, just like that, as if i don’t remember, but on holidays. yes, he always did this to both my mother and me, yes to my mother, he still showed me in every possible way that you are a girl.