uh, faina dahlia, it seems that she went into some kind of internal migration and lived all her life alone; she had, uh, well, at the end of her life a dog. uh, boy people didn't understand. yes, we know this from documentaries. uh, the same krymov, when she told me there was no one to leave the boy with. and who is she talking to? well , before that, it was obvious that she somehow did not. uh, correspond to the universal here, and ra patriotism and in this bolshevik revolution did not find anything positive, as far as i understand, well, anyway however, she had some roles. uh, not so in the movies, known as, for example, tapers from alexander parkhomenko or something else where she plays, for example, absolutely disgusting genius plays completely with an accent. american i don't remember how cinema. yes,

yes, and here she is, it's just fantastic. this, firstly, it is impossible to know, then she had a frau. wurst is also such a vile creature from uh german, which means he adopted someone there, to torment these unfortunate children. here are some of these stories. she played uh disgusting. well , in cinderella, it's still out of time, despite the fact that schwartz is schwartz, but nonetheless. it's still out of time. here, and here, as it were , quite a concrete one. uh, well, not a cheer for patriotism, but quite specific, that is, that is, these good blacks and whites are bad. but in general, in principle, soviet cinema was very different from this. she, uh, hmm, was loyal. i don't think i think she was vehemently opposed, but she

nonetheless, judging by this example allowed some microscopic episodes. well, here is her famous this episode from the production of the storm. and where did she play the speculator manka well, yes, he obviously refers to some such stamp of the soviet era. although it is ingeniously played. by the way, you played. we donate this one too. yes? by the way, i tried about manka in e. again, the crimean fain georgs. she says how she treats such characters without any tenderness. well, naturally, because now it is sometimes accepted, well, to paint everything with one paint. and what happened there for 100 years ago, but it is still clear that these were these events. it’s not just that, not from scratch , all the victories and all the disgusting failures that were inherent in that

time arose. of course, they experienced people as if they were their own. it’s not just some kind of fiction there, it’s clear that there were people like this manka, and i think that fain georgievna was also everything is unpleasant with her like that. eh, as i understand it, well, internal sarcasm is very serious. by the way, what role do you like the most? here are the ones you like best. i really i like everything, uh, her little bits in the movies and all her roles and i really like how different everything is, that is, i can’t here, i can’t choose any one piece or one movie or something, because there are films that i have never seen in their entirety. and i saw only these tiny episodes with uh, fondurgens, but of course. that is, there is such a big story that i saw

in its entirety, this performance is further silence, but i can’t do this either, but i can’t fully say that i perceive you, the way it really was deed, because because theater is theater. yes, it's alive, it's a living art, a living, a story, and uh, and the people who saw this performance said that they had to go to it 2 3 5 times, because every time it was different, each time they played differently with growth. i. well, of course, this is the fixed second. do you think there is such an hmm opinion when we read ranevskaya that hmm she is closer to brecht's theater than to stanislavsky's theater, although she denied this and said that stanislavsky is my favorite, there the director is a genius and all that, others, a teacher whom she saw once briefly, but saw many of his performances, well,

of course, she studied at them. yes, and in general, she played in the tairov theater, that's all. ah, the same, like a school, and here the question is, when people watch some of her performances, they really hmm see that she deviates from principles. stanislavsky, just this one from this theater of experiences gravitates more towards the theater of performances, like actresses. that's what it seems to me, it seems to me, it's just uh, i don't separate it. for me it counts as it's a synthesis. yes, it seems to me, yes, it seems to me that the most wonderful artists, just those who know how to combine this, when you know how to put on this some kind of new mask every time, you warm it up to fill it with lively , lively emotions, lively feelings with a diary,

roles, and er know the name of the dog that you have there at 5 years old. well, so as not to discourage me completely, but it seems to me that this was very characteristic of her, she just complemented it, she did not leave the theater of experiences, but she enriched it with some additional colors. how, for example, there smoktunovsky yes, which is absolutely, but hmm, makeup is always different at the same time. well, to say that he was not worried. with i mean he didn't feel. this is, apparently, some kind of organic, but such a connection with well, i don’t know, with the universe of great actors , uh, these things are connected. that's for sure. yes, since we are talking about the series i would like

to see the trailer, if there is a vacancy, we will inform you every morning i go to the auditions, then until late in the evening the sobbing already exists you just need try to get. she wants to shame our whole family, something bright, unique, and glorious . remaining tongue voice, like a longshoreman . i need connections. i have connections. only in the city laundry. and i will achieve everything myself, eyes, eyes, but character. i would try them all. this is one actress, what a disheveled beaver. i will invite you to star in my film, and prostitutes. yes, but you will play an exceptionally selective honest woman, bastard, beauty.

i think, but to talk about it. if i began to describe, i would say that this is not a striker, and this is a play. some such play is a play based on motives and, of course, in no case can you say that you really play this particular person in these circumstances. if you consider it like a play about it, then it turned out wonderful, and

in fact. and this is a very pity, and sometimes people who do it should. well art is something in art. some kind of energy can pass through them. they may not understand this themselves, and therefore they need to be explained in general, they need to be told that guys, well, you did theatrical, well a theatrical play about this man, because they took a beautiful actress for the role of an ugly one, and so on and so forth. but uh, i'm not saying this as a compliment, really. this is the first thing that arises, well, like, well, fain georgievna is still such a specific woman, and here in general. no, no, by the way, i also wanted to say, i understand that you were playing. uh, also akhmatova in another series. well, not so big, not from 18:00 to 86 years old. and literally there. well,

it doesn't matter how your career develops, that is, you play great e such phenomenal personalities of the 20th century. here is and this same this for good reason somehow. yes, what moves yours, and producers and, uh, and directors to take you to them there, i don’t know you, they say, matt. i understand that the similarity is just purely superficial. i don't remember, i have two i have a broken nose. i don't remember which side i'm on. which profile is from which profile? in general, i am very similar to her, but i don’t know about ranevskaya, that is, you are from some profile, ranevskaya from some akhmat looks like that one. by the way, when you uh think about how to play ranevskaya, how do you prepare it takes some time, do you think about it , or do you drink her to do it, or does the director tell you? here she was, the way it

is. this is interesting. the first main task is to step over the uh hysterical in the head of this one. who am i who is she? and inevitably i had to stop intuitively through this, after all, they played in the play. yes, because otherwise i fell into a stupor from the horror of responsibility from all this and from the thought of the endless thought that no one has this right and this cannot be done. this badly. it is not right. can't be impossible. fu in place to lie. and the only thing that saved this is this mantra - this is not e, yes, our character is called their own georgievna raevsky, but this is not faina georgievna ranevskaya - this is a certain character. this is the first task was to cross absolutely everything else through this. well you're like any other role. whether you are an actress or a doctor or anyone you are, i am a bore, i am like this, i write down the roles in

a notebook, i keep a diary of the role. i have it all written down on one side, text on the other side of the background. everything means, this is this , this is all i am. from the beginning of the conceived to the embodiment of the past. well, for the first time i personally auditioned for ranev’s young e, then i can’t say for sure, but it seems that either four actresses, or two actresses and 4 ages were supposed to play it, and in 2013 yes, it's the same project. just transferred or everything has changed there. i don't, i don't know, but what i noticed in the film uh hmm in this hmm like a playmaker neva she sometimes speaks in aphorisms these are the ones we hear. yes, it is, well, in

your opinion, it is, as it were, done in order to make it more recognizable. i think so, but again, these are not questions for me, these are the scriptwriters to the director and creative producers and so on the actor, of course, well, what do they say to you unconditionally? yes, although, how did you allow them on the site how to improvise and somehow add something from yourself? well, somewhere yes, but here is such a very line. still, another time, another language, other manners of communication between people. and uh, just go away , pull yourself, like, as if that's all was of course not. well, there was no such task. that's why no, i probably suggested something, but basically, somehow i'm a pretty obedient artist. look

, these fighters have become very popular in recent years. we watched a lot of films about famous people. there, starting with yesenin. and now a film about vertinsky has been released. a film about anna herman about lyudmila gurchenko in general, they sort out almost all uh hmm celebrities. why do you think there was such an hmm request from viewers for series from about such people. probably because the scale of personality, because what an interesting fate, because hmm, the junction and fluff of times in ranevskaya, of course, an interesting fate, of course. well, anyway, we are there and vertinsky understandably. yes, there vertinsky is also present in your e, yes, as quite a bit. yes, such a runaway. yes look at another question that always arises when you look at hmm in the credits for

the leading lady, whose name is maria, this is polishchuk of course, the association with, uh, your parents is nowhere from this. you're not going anywhere. you're not going anywhere. i think that in some moment, perhaps, the same series will be shot about your mother, because in general, her fate also kind of reminds in some kind of ups and downs of fate, yes, yes. in general, these are certain roles of one exploitation. once he said a phrase about her, the face of a non-soviet woman and her well, they didn’t shoot her. quite right. i had the face of a hollywood woman. i always have a question for the children of such famous actors, what drives them to become actors. here are the fates of their parents. yes you

know me. well, of course there's a lot about it i thought, i don't think it's something like that. here i go. it's just that you live in certain conditions, i don't know how it is to live in some other family. i have lived with this family all my life. i have lived all my life with this mother, with this father, grandmothers, grandfathers , and so on, and this is some kind of natural habitat, there has always been a theater in which i endlessly followed my mother. my nanny worked as a props at another theater. i'm in this theater to send endlessly to the rehearsals of other artists already and somehow the child learns what he sees in his home. this is true. i can’t imagine what would have to happen so that i would fall in love at school, for example, physics or chemistry, but you could follow in the footsteps of your father there you

could if at least somehow at least a little, i liked to do it. unfortunately, i didn't like drawing at all. why unfortunately? well, this is not clear . because the fate of the artist and, as a rule, is even more difficult than that of the actors, because the actors we see do not depend on anyone. you independent dad in the morning i got up and went to sing together, now i went on crutches, but i went, in the meantime i broke my leg on january 1, i went out for a walk with the dog. slipped. fell broke his leg, that is, as if he walks to work, as if to work. well, of course, no one forces him to do it because he wants to, especially in the state theater, especially in the repertory theater, in which i no longer work

. hooks, for which i can’t help but catch on, and i i have worked in the theater on maly bronnaya since 2007 and they all take it because i am not very good with mathematics. well, something there is 15. you see, you counted very quickly. i don't get them that fast. at the end of last season, i was fired and the staff and left on the contract, but since the contract i am not obliged to come to play performances on the days when i have performances and since it happened for me for several months in a row that i could not, well, that is i could choose i can or i can't. i didn’t choose very well and i really like that i no one else officially owes anything. yes , i have a work book in my folder with folders in which there are folders with documents.

if you are invited to the main roles, then your career is yours to me. hmm, your career is like a fate , including more or less material, i understand but, if not, then you don’t work in the theater either, as a matter of fact, uh i work in the theatre. it's just that i work in an independent theater and it's you're extremely simple, uh, one person rents a room , other people come there and play there. performances, and there are many different all sorts of great. and that's great. that's just fine and that's where i'm just getting great pleasure even in some cases, by the way, decent money. it's great. i was very glad to meet you and admired your kind of work. my name is igor igritsky. we say goodbye to you. i had a wonderful actress maria tsygal, polishchuk, who played the main role in

the tv series ranevskaya e. all the best. i hope that we will see each other more than once. we are yes. this is god goodbye. hello schrödinger code podcast i'm its presenter grigory tarasevich editor-in-chief of a popular science magazine with the same name schrödinger's cat actually schrödinger's cat is such a thought experiment related to complex quantum physics, in short - it's an accessible metaphor. a simple metaphor is a very complex science and our podcast is just about how he sees the complex in the simple and the simple in the complex, and today we will talk about

series. and together with me svetlana karlash is a psychologist and someone else, but who i will say later and we will talk about complex things through a fairly simple understandable serial container. you have watched this series. yes, and we are navy, can you show the container series as an acute social drama, eh, but in fact , uh, there are a lot of such uh borderline psychological issues, but in social ones too uh, and i thought that he rather provocative, not only from the point of view of the topic of surrogate motherhood, but from the point of view of broader issues of worldview a couple of words and the plot of the series, someone did not watch a friend, although everyone recommend. yes, no spoilers, no spoilers girl. sasha, 28 years old, a surrogate mother bears a child and then gives birth to him by

order of some. rich people are very rich. well , then rich people began to spin in difficult relationships. the rich also cry. ah, the totalitarian mother. this is the heroine's young man, the heroine's daughter. well, and so on this movement as much as 2 seasons. maybe even the third one will be back, after all the series. it’s generally today that it’s here , does it seem to you that such a form of journalism is quite possible, and it seems to me that this is hmm in addition, there are some other mirrors of those issues that arise in society and in this mirror they are presented in such a more grotex version, yes, that is, all uh, storylines, all the characters are exaggerated and pointed, and some things, of course, cut my ear and eyes because they are excessively protruding. yes, it seems that apart from this phenomenon

, there are no other movements in the human psyche of this or that hero, but still, yes, our topic concerns surrogate motherhood. and maybe we'll take a little break from the series and let's move on to it. yes, in general, what is this problem with horned material. this is probably a problem. and someone is nurturing about inequality, for whom it is in the series. it seems to me a lot about freedom and not freedom, about control , about order. and vice versa, well, and about the conflict of the generation, because there is no longer every relationship between fathers and children everywhere problematic, you are talking now, first of all, about social phenomena. yes, but they are born from scientific and technological progress, which goes far beyond what we are used to seeing. and more recently, test-tube babies, in in principle, caused such a wave of hype. yes , now this is not a problem, but this is what many people do to us by chi surrogate motherhood, by the way.

in many countries it is forbidden, in some it is allowed here, and yet, if you imagine it as a mass phenomenon, it can change quite a lot, and the social picture, yes, and the psychological one , too, you hint at some plot of the maid's stories. yes, yes, this topic was brought up and the maid's story. it’s just a dystopia that is right on this topic, and it’s so creepy, actually, in fact in fact, in principle, hmm science hmm opens new horizons, but a person is not a very healthy being mentally a master of his ah. and uh, in this sense, we are able, of course, to betray monstrous forms. if uh someone, yes, there will have access, but to the power of uh in deciding, because or otherwise. and we can we as humanity. and we can make a completely monstrous scenario out of uh, any idea, so they are not

without fears about this. e meaning. yes, just like uh, these fears do not mean putting an end to science on progress and on some new technologies that radically change our perception. well, in general, the phenomenon of surrogate motherhood. it's not just someone who reproduced the child, it opens up a lot of different topics. well, for example, here is the relationship of genes and environment, what is more important genes or editors a person is brought up? and there is no single answer grandchildren. yes, there is a lot of data. this is wonderful. you know there on psychogenetics. well, there is, there, increased aggressiveness in humans. he will leave her, where to kill people or become an athlete. as far as the fact that the mother was some kind of good, bad, will be passed on to her child. you understand that the truth is in the middle. yes, you are voicing, two polar radical points of view, of course, neither one nor the other. neither the environment nor genetics in its purest form.

and we are talking about some a set of environmental genetic factors that can lie like bones in the lord god in any order, and in this sense , of course, this is an interesting question, but it concerns not only surrogates, mothers, and even e is not so much only adopted children. after all, when you and i start a child and give birth to chigi, he will inherit the genes. eh, what's going to get from grandma? great-grandmothers from which branch from which line? we don't really know either. although of course, here they believe. higher and calculate it is possible probably more belief that an adopted child with such genes, the environment, will still have a decisive influence and a person will be a good family. yes, maybe there will not be a world champion in running. e, but if a family has some important ethical standards, then these standards will reproduce and no, uh, with the same set of uh genetic inclinations. yes. eh, maybe a

person. uh, different fate uh, with different social. well, for example, if we return to the series and look at how yes played or did not play the genetics of the heroes of the series. now, if you remember one of the heroes, for example, right? well, for example, sasha is the main character, the daughter of a very authoritarian mother of a teacher. yes, she herself is satisfied with the tough sasha ugu uh, and her authoritarianism uh, no, she is not devoid of authoritarianism, this means that she was genetically transmitted to her or her mother socially brought up like that, nobody knows, in fact, in science there is no clear answer to this until the end. well, it's very difficult to explore in a good way, you have to take one egg of your gemini from birth to separate them. at the same time, nadezhda was brought up in families with different social cultures, and then after 20-30 years they were there, but it was always not completely clear. well, for example, in the middle of the 20th century. uh, wonderful and but not completely, wonderful

american psychologist sirial bard. studied gemini and when they started to study it, firstly, a part of it was falsified, and secondly, they took the twins from the orphanage and separated them, but they turned out to be with a similar social status. is their similarity the same or that the family is americans? uh, you are already talking about the socio-cultural aspect, which also affects the formation of personality. he is also included in this series, yes genetics, well, biology is what was given initially. uh, mental psychology is what a person gets in the family and socio-cultural is what he gets in a broader context, but look if we let's get back to the topic of surrogacy surrogate motherhood, which, uh, is the host . one of the main ones, which assumes a container in the series. and how does this question of genetics or environment play in the topic of human reproduction with the help of mothers, but here

i see, yes, genetic material. it will still be the parent. the customer will still be the mother and father of those who want to bear this child with the help of the frame, but genetically he and them, uh, i am here, as a psychologist, interested in a slightly different question. it's a matter of affection is formed during pregnancy, and the woman formally has nothing to do with it. the film shows a moment where in the clinic the main character sasha da is trying to prevent the child from being quickly discharged, uh, so as not to form a maternal instinct, as if the child were taken away immediately after birth. yes, she immediately signs the application of the child does not see the maternal instinct does not wake up. well, partially, of course, if you pick him up and feed him and so on. the machine will be launched there, oxytocin and other psychological ones, too, yes more, uh, but in general

uh, the formation of a woman's identity, how a mother begins during pregnancy, from the first three places, at each stage of pregnancy, a woman moves closer and closer to experiencing herself as a mother and, by the time of birth, somehow come to terms with this and this identification. uh, already uh, to be able to integrate yourself, however, uh, in the film yes, it is shown that these things can be cut off with the help of a medical protocol, yes. there in the clinic is you escape. and i think it's not. and that the emotional connection between mother and child during pregnancy. it exists is e, and e will influence in the future. here we turn to the section of perinatal psychology, dear listeners. i promised to reveal one more quality of our guest svetlana and this quality is my wife. and can i ask you a question no longer as a psychologist. and as a woman's

wife, how do you like the series. that's what you feel when you watch, i think the series is very. actual and on the one hand, and a wonderful actor, a deep game, all this cannot but impress a little. i felt too radicalized good and evil. and you do not like it when good is clearly here, evil is clearly here. well, i'm still for the complexity of mental processes. and when the main characters, uh, work, 10 episodes in a row in one is not the main one there, one of yes, but we will not be a spoiler in the same psychological mental status, and it does not change from the series to the series, in principle, it feels like a person, how flooded here in this state of the psyche. so he reproduces you simply in every cue in every series without changing anything at all perfectly. i don't know, maybe less intellectual than you, but i love it when you can see it, it's a bastard. this is good, but, in principle, everyone loves it very much, because this is the basic settings. and such a state,

when we divide the world into black and white, everything is very clear. everything is very much under control. anxiety is reduced, especially in situations. uh, stress overload, our psyche regresses to the basic settings, that is, to the enemies. that is, i am generally regressive at home, let's talk about this topic. and i will comfort you. we are aggressive all this is not bad. well, wait, now you'll come back to the cable reflexi, let's keep it simple. that's what a woman feels, well, imagining herself in the place of this or that heroine, or a customer, or a performer. you know, it's very difficult for me to, uh, feel myself as a performer. honestly, i'll tell you, but because, well, here, even there, a kitten or a dog. i am quite attached. um, i probably wouldn't be able to handle my psyche. yes, that's the way i am. e to give the child after bearing in place of the customer, for example, hypothetically. i could imagine myself, there would probably be a lot of anxiety about how

the pregnancy is going on and uh, if i have and will i have a relationship with a child? and uh , i probably would have been very worried that uh at the time of appearance. yes, my child was not two of us with my husband, but three with another woman , this is still a sacred moment, u where the couple has. eh, it's kind of a mystery. yes, there is a continuation of the fruit of love, here such is the fruit of technology. again, i am now speaking without negative qualifications, and i have no idea that this is the fruit of technology. this is bad. fu, no, but it's just a phenomenon. yes, i'm talking like phenomenology. what's another option? let's let’s complicate the increase in the degree of provocation, for example, not the father’s gene and the mother who bear these people, but either the father’s genes and the gene uh-huh or vice versa, when a man is something wrong with his functions,

a man is attracted to a fairly popular now-common procedure for donor eggs, yes. who is our sperm, which you even take to yourself, in my opinion, was somehow discussed. and how do you want me to answer, like a woman or like a psychologist, first, like a woman brightly, so that everyone wakes up, and then like a psychologist, so that everyone calms down. and i would probably have a very scared as woman a and i would most likely hmm but would fantasize uh, various disturbing things about uh, the scenarios of this child's fate. a. probably, i could rather decide on the bottom of this a-a, and i think that as a woman i would have the strength to cope with this anxiety. ah, but i have questions in this place to which i have no answers, neither as a woman, in any way. psychologist

but all the same, it will turn out because of other alien genes. an alien child or your own child. well , listen, i don’t have dog genes, and our dog will completely devour me in comparison. and on in fact, actually not quite joking now, because in addition to genes there is also, uh , a phenomenon described by john balbey and not only by him, but a psychological attachment that is formed between a mother and a child. the point here is that it is an attachment. it is formed on both sides, not only women or men's parents conditionally , yes, it is attached to the object, but also, uh, the child is a dog, a kitten, native or not native, he is also attached in response, and such a two-way connection. she's strong enough and i don't know if she's less or more powerful than genetic, maybe more actually in the series, this topic is disclosed, maybe even more than. the topic of surrogacy is like a teenager