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a big game is on the air today we have a special analytical edition of the program and we are talking today to senator klimov , chairman of the federation council commission for the protection of russian sovereignty , thank you very much for taking the time. and, of course, you have a lot of work to do on a very important and increasingly important subject, and above all you want to to ask you. this commission was created a few years ago before such a commission; there was never such a commission anywhere in the world before. why was there confidence that such

a commission is necessary and what is its mandate, uh, it was the seventeenth year and at the beginning of the seventeenth year. eh, an avalanche-like increase in e of various kinds of information signals, there, but regarding the fact that hmm a wave is about to fall on russia, just various e-external actors and actions of a destructive nature. it walked along the line opened along the line of our special services. and in this regard, we decided to hold a round table on the basis of the federation council. i was a member of this round table where both representatives of our law enforcement agencies and prominent scientists were invited. politicians diplomats we discussed. it was discussed behind closed doors for quite a long time, and

in the end it was decided that in order to prepare our society, first of all, well , the state, too, is also such a massive external attack, as we say, on state sovereignty. we need to have. uh organ, special or some kind of constitution, which, unlike the special services, would be open, that is , it would operate on the site, in this particular case, in the upper house of the russian parliament. you know that the federation council is a non-partisan story, there is no faction of political parties there. every senator is there. i also represent some region. and on this site to create a commission that would collect data related to issues that in one way or another relate to the state sovereignty of russia and attempts to interfere in our internal affairs and channels and the development on this basis of both bills that we do and individual recommendations. in addition, another very important

function, since we are not only legislative representatives of the government. this is communication with representatives of civil society with different regions. both state structures and non-state structures. actually. this is what we do once a year, we prepare an annual report. this is a kind of analytical material. there are special reports. periodic surrender there are round tables and offsite meetings. that is, this is a fairly wide scope of work, but we, of course, do not substitute special structures for courts, prosecutors, and so on, but it is the body that is organized on the platform of the upper house of the russian parliament. you know what you are saying to me very much now. interesting, including all my personal experience. there is no such special commission in the united states here, and it did not exist anywhere before our appearance. this is true, but there are naturally organs that carefully look after this and in uh, 18 years old. when the special prosecutor

was preparing a report on russian interference, i was one of the defendants in this report, like i was mentioned there 100 times. i say, like, because i didn't count myself counted, uh, politics magazine, which i don't really trust, but 10 pages. they gave me exactly e and the conclusion was that it was not me, not my organization, they did nothing that could be considered russian interference. they didn’t find any real russian interference at all, they simply didn’t find it, and i can demonstrate this very simply one person participation in the russian intervention was not destined. there were many words condemning some russian actions. and here, then? in general , they were also not of such a scale that

they could not at least somehow influence the elections. well , in addition, natural russia had a completely different point of view about the very essence of these actions. and there they came up with some kind of computer there, uh, which was in the trump building, that it was connected with some russian banks, and you understand, they controlled from some russian bank, apparently a candidate for president well, in general, it was established that all this is complete nonsense. it was not established by moscow. this was established in the united states by a special prosecutor. and what amazes me is that, despite the fact that russia’s actions were put under a microscope in america , they couldn’t find anything significant, but your commission and your other colleagues saw, as i understand it , a very serious scale. foreign

interference in russian politics, right? well, of course, in fact, it's not even here you don’t need a microscope, just read the statements of people, not analysts, of course, but people who are in power, they have uh, leverage is both government officials and representatives of international organizations who uh. well, let's put it mildly, they indicate what we should do and how to do it, and they indicate not in terms of recommendations, but in terms of instructions that we must follow. and if we do not comply with them, then illegal extractions are introduced , some kind of black lists are created. so they get settled different kinds, demarches up to attempts. so to speak street riots. eh, and so on and so forth. here are the logic chains. they are sometimes so transparent that, in general, even e is somehow inconvenient and something needs to be proved. just put this on the page of the same report. it becomes obvious, but there are,

of course, methods that are more subtle, more serious , more profound, and moreover, er, this goes not only along the line, let's say. eh such uh, purely political it goes through attempts to influence the spiritual sphere. we have a lot materials on how educational institutions have been used in this regard, how venues related to culture and art have been used. and these were not just know the game of the mind, the relevant creative people. these were very specific orders that were carried out with other people's money and quite obvious pre- formulated goals. and these goals change from time to time. and so we, for example, in our commission made a number of conclusions. in particular. last year. they have been published with us that if earlier, for example, the general tasks were set by this change of political system in russia, and now the task is being set; it has not yet been removed, but already so to speak. eh, there are options, yes, the task

is to dismember the russian state, that is , the cessation of its existence as a country and the emergence of a large number of such semi-dependent countries and people who, for example, are like some of our so-called ones. uh, non-systemic oppositionists of the previous waves, they believed that they would succeed in all this, and they would rule this big russia. now there is. e, another, so to speak, e team, and they begin intraspecific competition, because the other team. she means the dismemberment of the state. as such, according to various principles, i will not go into details now, but we even notice that the goals of indicating how to conduct it are changing. eh, here, this is the very interference of our internal affairs. and how to correct or change beyond recognition, e strategy, in order to change the main directions of external internal policy of the russian state up to its destruction, as such . this is all we have in our reports. a give

an example, if possible, who made such orders and who carried out such work in russia, if this is possible, nothing like that, then especially secret. no, look, it means we have , among other things, thanks to the work of my colleagues in this commission of our colleagues in other structures. we have, uh, legislation. today it was created and introduced in full on december 1 last year. there are two big laws about control over persons under foreign influence. criteria are written there, and on the basis of these criteria, the ministry of justice creates lists, so anyone who wants to. they can openly look at these lists and see those people or those organizations that, uh, they are not yet subject to criminal punishment, that is, they have not crossed the line for which either , uh, treason begins, or something so serious, but they are already located. here, in the field , the influence of these destructive forces, as we

call them, which are ready to destroy our country, and there, of course, there is not a huge number of these uh individuals and organizations named, but still they are there and anyone who wants to. maybe we’ll get acquainted with this and go to advertising; we’ll be back in just a few minutes. to fly out before the first bombing strike on military facilities and government institutions of the capital of the fascist reich, a heavy flight at the highest altitude, the most intelligent are sure that everyone can withstand this for a long time, you will have to fly for a long time, choose the release the day after tomorrow.

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which brought equal glory and breath, which they hold back and which is laid by this our dynasty of thousands of children and one common house. that's what it means, yes, for us, perennial a partnership that has become a real friendship vtb congratulates the sports society, dynamo is not an anniversary. everything is just beginning and will definitely work out. a big game is on the air today we have a special analytical issue of the program and we are talking today to senator klimov. i looked at the statement literally yesterday of a lawyer. which criminal

investigation of course i will continue to the best of my ability to help. uh, to the extent that i can, vladimir karamurzi as his lawyer has a lot of cases that need to be continue to do? well, for example, inclusion. eh , facilitating the inclusion in the sanctions lists of everyone who is involved in the criminal prosecution and this alone is the administrative prosecution of vladimir moz, even if they don’t think, they will remember all of them. this is absolutely absolutely unambiguous, by the way, from these lists, the future of a free russia will be quite easy. in fact, look. uh, whom whom law enforcement agencies already post. eh, already new russia should be very interested in someone to attract special attention. firstly,

because it comes from lawyers from a lawyer who must know the laws. this is the first. the second one interested me, because i was not aware that mr. prokhorov and his like-minded people would soon have the opportunity to come to power in russia, and maybe, if they really want to come to power, they need to start a creative program, and not draw up execution lists, but i was struck by this degree of frankness. and well, here, uh, you know such things you can think. but if you want to be in politics don't say such things he says, actually formulated that they will draw up sanctions lists that will be accepted and implemented

by a foreign state. what he clearly meant in this case is that the united states can the european union but he is in washington and that these lists will actually be used to dictate their will to russian judges and prosecutors, but i cannot imagine a clearer example of foreign interference. it's actually legal in russia or not completely, but you know alexei , after all, a country, uh, which is not just the name is the rule of law, but really we have here uh, and here i am a senator so, but as a senator, i have no right to interfere in the work of the courts. now, if they asked me if i was guilty or not, a specific person, specifically citizens, i would immediately send you to the court and say, you know, i really draw up laws on the basis of which judges should act, but still i don’t give an indictment in our country either a person

is considered innocent until it is established by the court, which within their competence, a legal decision, and here, uh, all the time. and this is not the only figure. it means that he behaves like this. uh, when these guys, who call themselves liberals, act in the best traditions of the bolsheviks, uh. such and that's not the next bolsheviks later . you know, even the trotskyists. i would say, that's closer to trotskyism. this, probably, and in general authoritarianism, and bears here to this liberal public. eh, and they didn't harass this liberal. there i do not know from what therefore. what we have just heard this is not yet up, so to speak, not aerobatics. here is such an absurd logic, uh, they saw something else. but as for the specific case , here again, yes, i told you about our legislation on foreign agents of the person we were talking about here, that's not

why he received the appropriate term. there, others exchanged things of a completely different order for him. and when they criticize us. people like me and me in particular are very cool. criticized, especially at the very beginning of the work of our commission, that millions of people will fall under the influence, and now six years have passed of the work of our commission, where are these millions of people. we are not talking about a specific, rather narrow group, and this group understands why this is all happening, and the rest, who are a little bit involved in this , understand why this is happening and the evidence base goes on for quite a long time. yes it is sometimes. well, it seems to many there, but the opposite point of view. yes, we are phony, that we are thinking something for a very long time, what is needed here means to wave with a saber. here, uh, after all, our task is to find a golden mean to protect society from external influence and, at the same time, what is important is to enable normal, respectable citizens to live

as they see fit within the framework of the russian constitution. in fact, this is the task. it is very complex, but it must be solved. well me very uh rather hear that you want to keep the middle ground because in my opinion. attempts to spread foreign influence by a very unconstructive reason in russia i think they are serious real many will not agree with me, but for me it is undoubtedly. you i also definitely. oh, you need to do such things with a scalpel, not with an ax, because when you do it with an ax, this situation arises, remember that we saw in the soviet union, the forest is chopping, the chips are flying. and now i have a feeling that such a desire is brandishing an ax, and how to beat my own people so that strangers are scared. it seems to me like that. uh

desires, they are, uh, with the federal assembly, not with the executive branch. no, i'm not mistaken from those people with whom i communicate, but i communicate with people, just a fairly wide circle, this is i repeat representatives of the security forces. the structures are our colleagues from the state duma and, therefore , other, uh, power structures. uh, i'll tell you that the more, uh, responsible position occupies, this or that person, the more weighted his decision is the proposal of the recommendation. this is absolutely accurate. and the more irresponsible a person is and the less information he has, the more these notes slip through, which , in my opinion, are ultimately destructive, because our opponents are just waiting for us to begin, e, the sublimation of chaos, and in this chaos, they will try to do what they see fit. our task. it means to maintain such a healthy stability

that would give us the possibility of stable development of stable development. there is nothing else, so here, of course here. our task, by the way, you know, that's what i, for example. i can brag. if i may say so, in 1918 we issued our first full-length report and there was an analysis of the state of state sovereignty in various spheres. here is the military realm. we were, well, in the top three states, in general, there is the most sovereign state, so to speak. oddly enough, they are all mostly in the top twenty, that is, the g20 is just a club of those states that, well, not equally, but still have the greatest sovereignty, and they have the maximum geopolitical sovereignty, as we understand in the united the states of america is the people's republic of china of the russian federation for various reasons. but here, there is a whole set of factors. yes, so, if in this sense we were in the top three, then assume sovereignty in the sphere of culture. we were already at the end of this twenty. culture in the broadest sense of the word. and there is

a lot of education there. yes, and all this has been shown and proven on specific yet quantitative parameters in addition to qualitative assessments. and now, yes, there, of course, the financial ones analyzed financial sovereignty. we then pointed out that the distribution of our asset funds in e. so, e securities . e other states that tend to be enemies, so to speak. yes , it does not correspond to our national interests. a lot of things have been done there, and in four dashes of 5 years , together with our colleagues, we have been able to of course adopt certain legislative acts from the budget to these laws, about which i said to prepare our system in such a way that even this test for survival, which surprised many, russia withstood that's quite a bit. look here. in our country, uh, well, taking into account what is happening around, we still have a politically stable situation. our

political stability is very high. and this is high political stability. she is not embellished. it is really, if the cuts are made serious, then this is absolutely obvious. yes, this is obvious to our opponents, and it worries them very much, if you look at the reaction of our economic system. after all the preparations . yes, of course, more could be done. well, from my point of view , anyway, well, we have achieved a lot in this area. and now, in matters of education, we are starting to take this whole story more seriously. science, too, and here there is another extreme, self-isolation. here were the hot heads, who were somewhere at the turn of 15-16 years after the start of the crimean events, after the signals of a big confrontation had already appeared there. they already were. they were even in the twelfth year. remember afterwards. here are the statements of mrs. clinton

when she said at the end of the twelfth year, it is necessary to prevent eurasian integration with moscow's participation there at any cost, that is, at any cost. and then further maidan there are all these events. come on, we did, by the way, a separate a meeting dedicated to these events with the invitation of people, like azarov, very serious initiates and there are such prime ministers. we have evidence. there are in our dossiers about how cash was brought to kiev with two hercules to bribe the political elite there. this is just at the time of the so-called maidan and was heard. well, not everyone, of course. which deputies welcome from 1 to 3 million dollars in cash. yes, even in the us embassy you understand for this, uh, this revolution of independence well, we still understood why this was being done? do you understand? that is, we have very serious materials, not only about russia, but also about what happened along the perimeter of russia, so we wanted to prepare our

state in this way and found a society so as not to fall into any case. here in this temptation of self-isolation. that is, we must , and our president has spoken about this many times and continues to say in all our concepts that we are not talking about the isolation of our country itself, but about such a well-organized legal system. moreover, protection systems technical means do not say the legal system of protection, which would allow us to conduct broad international cooperation in all beyond the interests of our state. at the same time, while protecting our national interests and maintaining independent foreign domestic policies, let me hear about your date, the mandate of your commissions is focal, sovereignty, i immediately think that if in russia this idea that you need to preserve your sovereignty seems to someone uh, very doubtful, then this is generally the idea on which they were built and for the sake of which

were the foundations of the united states, exactly in the american constitution there is nothing about democracy, there is no such expression, and there is a lot about freedom and sovereignty , a country cannot be free if it does not have sovereignty and it seems to me that on the one hand it seems obvious, but on the other, here i am i want to ask you a conclusion. why did it happen that a significant part of the russian elite voluntarily, and at their behest, at their own will. although, of course, not without undermining the west, in general, she decided with her sovereignty in the nineties at the end of the eighties citizens, i will never forget, i am present through a conversation between former president nixon and foreign minister kozyrev in russia in 1993 , the ministry of foreign affairs went to kozyrev and asked, uh , how the new russia was going to formulate its national interests

. you know, we in the soviet union dealt with national interests too much, and now we have stubbornly universal human values, and maybe , however, if you are interested in the question, how do we formulate national interests in this something in this area you will prompt niks this is absolutely amazed. but, frankly, i could even be a little unfair now in kozyrevo, because he was not alone, since he was many and many then in the russian river thought that this was still or was beginning to pass. it's this, i won't say that it's gone, of course, because not all kozyrevos have left. yes, er, some mimicked so to speak. yes, and we know them, but uh, it happened. he may be familiar with my biography. i entered professional march 1990 policy. and fate

brought me together with different leaders, beginning with mikhail sergeevich gorbachev, whom i knew personally, but i already and all subsequent people, in fact, had the opportunity. and, of course, starting from the 2000s, not since 2000, a little later already. yes. uh, the return to sanity has finally begun. and here i will tell myself. until 2000, i was actually in opposition, but i was not in that opposition, in which, so to speak , our current opponents are, i was hopefully in a constructive position. e and me was not a member then. whatever the political party was during that period of time , people, about whom you spoke, who were then in power, often worked against me. uh, so i experienced all the methods of real hard pressure. some of today's so-called liberals, uh, promised to put me in jail and trample on my, so

to speak, future family. there's a lot i 've heard. but since the 2000s, when putin’s team already came, uh, and when we had a majority, first relative to the majority, now absolute in state duma all the same from now on. this is the mood to strengthen your country and have the opportunity to decide your own real future. this is also the meaning of sovereignty to decide our own present and future for us, as we understand it, based on the will of the people. so this trend began to win and now, uh, what i, let's say, proved with a hoarse voice in the early 2000s. well, for example, it was my bill that, for example, the top leadership of the country should not have foreign citizenship or residence. i remember it took him almost 3 years to make it a law ; today everyone says that maybe, otherwise , once, that is, this did not even begin in the seventeenth year. so i did this first at the zero state house. and not

only through this law. by the way, the law of exchange. so to speak, the first version is the twelfth year, but today we at the level of our population, so to speak , our main inhabitants, our main citizens , already understand that this must be dealt with without it. uh, the future safe and prosperous we cannot build. and anyway, for sure no one can, but uh in 3 days people who have foreign citizenship. eh, formally formal. they may be in the public service. they cannot be elected. uh, for any positions they can’t tell you about all the states there is some kind of legislation, but ambiguous ones cannot be elected to congress, but if it comes to getting access to at least some sensitive information . that is impossible.

if a person has a foreign nationality, and especially if there is a foreign nationality of what is considered and not a different state. but i'll give you some television. you will not see a host who is a citizen of another country with one exception canada but canada is, of course, independent, but not completely. it was you who gave us good advice, you understand, we will work in this direction, we will think, we will think, so as not to scare anyone. actually. speaking absolutely, seriously, of course, nobody wanted and there was no such task was rather restrict the opportunity somehow totally to people with a foreign language. we have a very complicated history, so it is no coincidence that many people have dual or even triple citizenship, and they also work as advisers. they work, they work in machines. there, somewhere , so to speak, research centers, they

work, but of course, the requirements for the protection of state secrets, and especially, if we are talking about judges, prosecutors, leaders, state agencies, ministries. e senators deputies, then governors. over there listed in the law all these positions. there, of course, it must be our citizen, our citizen, and he must not have citizens from the other side. we will now make a series of withdrawals, because, uh, after the well-known crimean events, people appeared who cannot simply issue, er, withdraw this very old citizenship, but for this we have such an opportunity in the law, that is, a person does not have a defeat in rights simply because, well, he turned out to be a citizen of russia due to well-known historical changes. this is also celebrated and we have opportunity actually under certain circumstances, people, uh, renounce all other citizenships. let's just say, having certain.

they can quite afford such a career to continue a certain life in russia, but uh, in principle, i just know here. personally, the masses of people who actively participate in our political life are patriots of our country. it also includes american citizenship. i would not like to call them by their last name on the air, maybe not everyone. this is interesting. in the end, this is their personal data, but there are such people, but they really cannot be elected not to become a member of the state duma, not to become a member, uh, a russian senator got into the federation council and this is exactly what i think, uh, one of our achievements because people have to decide. which state serves? well, it’s not for me to tell you what is written in the oath of a citizen of the united states of america. in the united states , uh, dual triple citizenship for the united states is that a citizen is only an absolutely american concept, but in relation to other

countries. after all, this is a vile person and the obligations of this person in other countries where he is considered a citizen are not recognized there, but i completely agree with you that, again, it is very important to find a middle ground here. in the sense that people. whatever their citizenship, they should be able to live normally, work, and contribute. but the idea is that every person should have the right to be elected, whether it be the federation council or the congress. and what? tem moreover, every person should have the right to have access to classified information. this is none . a respectful state cannot allow this, and it seems to me that in this sense you really, after all, seem to have found it. well what is required is common sense. it was a very interesting conversation for me. huge to you. thank you. thank you

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with denis kazansky on sunday at the first big game the big bookmaker of the russian premier league is on the air a big game and we will now have a conversation with konstantin zatulin, first deputy chairman of the committee on the cis and e, relations with russians in the state duma and a well-known expert on the post-soviet space and on international relations. in general, konstantin is very glad to see you on our program. good evening. we have a day there some interesting events related to ukraine just now. uh,

secretary general stoltenberg visited kiev for the first time since the start of a special military operation, and president volodymyr zelensky said that he was very encouraged by this visit. not just the general secretary. eh, blessed kiev with his presence. but what does this visit show that ukraine will soon have a new one? head of relations with nato do you believe well, i do not believe that this new chapter will be any different from the previous chapters, because it seems to me that the interest of the nato countries and, above all, the united states is that ukraine should be in the waiting room all the time, but never inside. i even came up with an analogy. you know, it’s not entirely accurate, it’s still with corsairism in

the middle ages. that's when the state was not going to fight themselves, but they wanted to cause damage to the neighboring sea. in this case, they issued these patents for privateering or corsairs. and there, it seems, uh, the independent shipowner actually piracy causing damage to foreign trade, here is ukraine today for the west performs this function because, on the one hand, it is not covered by the security guarantees that membership with us and article five of the washington treaty gives. and on the other hand , it is completely under the control of nato, it is increasingly moving to nato standards, and stoltenberg's today's visit once again emphasized that all soviet weapons are ending. now you will be fully equipped and equipped with our

weapons, our equipment. that is, we have made you completely dependent on this question. and it will be e for many years, and it seems to me that to some extent the intrigue with this visit. eh, here. uh, we discussed this creates a headline leapfrog. at first it was said that the stopper was going to visit ukraine on the eve of the counteroffensive. this was the official headline in one of the publications. after some time, apparently, stoltenberg's office or someone else caught on and the headline was changed in the same publication goes to discuss new arms deliveries, and there, perhaps, often to nato and so on. why have these headings been changed? yes, because if the stolter went to check the possibility of a counteroffensive so officially, it would turn out that

the inspector general was going to check the troops, and he was directly responsible for the result directly with the toltenberg. he checked, he certified that this counteroffensive had begun, how it would end. after all, none of them is 100% sure of this. therefore, it was necessary to work back, and familiar topics appeared. often ukraine is in nato, of course. much more needs to be done in ukraine. most. the main thing she needs to defeat russia, well , you know, how the story with napoleon's salute napoleon drove through some city and there was no salute. marshal berthier, the chief of staff calls the combines, he says, scoundrel. why was there no salute, he says, in the first place there was no gunpowder. but then the rest of the reasons, you don’t have to tell the same thing , and here nato participated with ukraine nothing different from the previous good. uh,

you said that nato, if i understand you correctly, controls everything in ukraine well, of course, of course then. how to explain that the zelensky government encourages and possibly organizes such actions as the recent uh terrorist attack in st. petersburg, where the well-known war correspondent of the blogger vladlen tatarsky was killed before this murder near moscow darius why am i asking you about this? i thought a lot about the topic myself, i tried to be as analytical as possible in my approach, yes in the soviet union at the time. supported terrorist organizations, especially radical palestinian organizations forever very carefully emphasized that they

are assisted by their activities are not related to terrorism, and that they are not supplied with any weapons or special means for terrorist operations. but that's the difference the soviet union also. assuming minimal responsibility for the policies of these radical palestinian organizations, no one could responsibly say that the soviet union was in control. therefore, although the soviet position caused concern, for example, henry kissing, but he could not tell me that it is your people who are doing it, you are responsible for it. and you just said, i agree with you, what is needed? he controls a lot

in ukraine and certainly has the right of the century with regard to ukrainian actions. especially especially odious actions against russia, you want to say that you either have to not believe that the ukrainians are doing this and or that you need to know, but do not want to interfere with this, firstly, you must, as we all understand well, u is at the head of it anglo-saxon. pot or this side of the atlantic ocean, which is generally famous for the fact that throughout its history it has always proceeded from war to standards, what is allowed. the united states does not deny that they, in my opinion, tried 30 or 40 times to kill the drug fidel. he even said that i was the record holder for the number of failed assassination attempts on me. therefore, it does not seem to me at all that they are very concerned about some terrorist acts from outside.