hungry night hands. i thought i would ask for everything, but it turned out, not him. i met her at the entrance to the night until now, the radio is lying around, as she found out about us, he said that she needed help. i could not help her because i never knew that she was not high. someone left her, and i proposed. like. one of them said that he loves cinema, but understood. i, that he loves the zoo, but for some reason, at night

, sleep did not come to me. the player-n-roll, rock and peoples did not let me sleep. i think it will be good. and you? stuck in an elevator is a great opportunity.

repay the longing rock 'n' roll of this night. i thought will be good. and you that not really and once again. i think it's good, but it turned out not very good.

hello friends, this is a podcast. life is wonderful and with you i am alexei varlamov , a writer and rector of a literary institute. and today we will talk about wonderful poems, we will talk about poetry, and in our studio we have two wonderful poets dmitry petrovich bak, who is also the director of the literary museum named after him and the presenter of the podcast. let them not speak, let the poet maxim albertovich amelin, the glorified literary prizes, but let's talk about poetry, and the reason for our conversation for our meeting was the day of poetry, which, as you know, is celebrated in march. for the first time this holiday was celebrated in our country in 1999 in a literary museum, namely in literary

museums. it is from there that everything went, and so it is. but generally speaking, uh, if we talk about russian letters. toure was told more than once that poetry is the poetic form of speech of this utterance, well, how would such a national ultimate ideal form of utterance in russian be the ultimate absolutely a speech that remains forever. and i have a question. i have never written poetry, so for me people who write poetry are some kind of special people, and i want to ask you, but in literary creativity in literary skill. there is such a thing as inspiration. that's about a bunny. at least i often say guys. do not expect any inspiration, writing is work and you cannot justify yourself by the fact that today i am writing, tomorrow i am not writing, or vice versa, no. that's how market, tying himself with ropes to a chair. and uh, write inspired by this chimera, it

was invented by poets. so here is my question to this maxim albertovich to you. but is there any inspiration or not? is there a music or not? here's actually just tell the fact. of course there is. i do not know how it exists, something like this happens such cases. well, that is, there, for example, he called some kind of weather there , but it was like and that i had a duck , you understand that therefore, uh, well, he lives an ordinary life there, yes, just like until it is required, however, yes, to some extent so, that is, some accumulates. i don’t know about this inner one, some kind of poetic hmm collection of honey. i don't know honey. eh, here, and then all of a sudden it happens it dawns on him at some point. and it happens. but this does not mean that there, for example, poetic work, as well as daily, well

, practically, that it does not exist. she is, she is different. simply and by the way, many prose writers. it 's not that failed projects, how would they abandon their poetic, because they didn't have enough, they wanted more, uh, that is, it is already, for example, uh, so it may be. in my opinion, there are cases when this prose writer in one person, of course, yes, and such cases. we just don’t have much literature in our literature, we know them, and in english literature there is such a thing . hmm well, there is an american, this is a harpoon, for example, yes, here, here we have a classic case. in turgenev, alexei konstantinovich tolstoy, pasternak, of course, nabokov yes, andrey bely bunin sologub, so i scored nine. here add, it seems, almost everything is not enough, for example,

plato yes, of course, there were very good poems, of course, we are far away valentine, yes, then i threw it away. here is the thing. he didn’t write poetry all his life, yes, and if we talk about those who lived parallel parallel lives and will write life, right all my life all my life a small poem, uh, the penultimate such an icy night mistral he still carry them i see light in the windows and the distance of the mountains , the hills of the naked golden motionless light lay before the bed , there is no one in the sublunar, only i yes, god knows, only he my dead sadness. the one that i'm from i give all, the cold shine of mistral is almost before death. yes, late will be fine, well , well. and here is a question. and it seems to you that in art there is progress, but in poetry, that's what development is - this is understandable. is it possible

to consider this development of poetry as a development from some simpler forms to more complex ones, or how to describe it in general? this is development, that's all, how does it happen? so, on the contrary, decrease. uh, because, that is, the most yes, to some extent, a regression, but hmm, because uh is the most complex form. they are at an early age, development literature. well, of course. there are some optical slings, uh, rigvida. well, yes, there, yes, that is, everything was the most difficult there. in general, there were times when everything was complicated anew, for example, er, there in an era, barovka. yes, when the complexity of the form and the refinement of some hmm e sophistication in general with trophic there is rhythmic and so on, when they came to the fore someone led or it happened by itself life is led maxim albertovich is known precisely for his archaic

position, not archaic, archaizing . that is it is a negative, on the contrary. yes, this is a very unconventional look. i'm terribly close. eh, and , of course, with such a position there is a regression, which consists in conversion, but in fact, simplification of the letter reigns around. i removed those because e, it looks like e. but this is a different sound. i hear. e. and the sound that was e is in place. eh, yat, and therefore maxim is right. in the sense that the forms are simplified and now they are more replicated , the technique of opening is easier to pick up. well , this is how the world works, uh, such hypercommunication, i would not call it a regression, but there is some logic in it. yes? well, for example, if we take the eighteenth century russian, yes, there is the most incredible number of types and forms.

this is especially true from astrological ones, as many as four, and then everyone knows it all, and the eighteenth century is only known to the maximum, because it seems to me that for a wide audience of the reader the eighteenth century, but at best lomonosov and we are to blame for this, as we we russian people are to blame for the fact that russian poetry is poorly known among us. this is the pinnacle russian poetry is 18 years old to some extent yes, to some extent depending on how metaphysical. completely metaphysical poetry, for example, they say that russian poetry is antimetophysically metaphysician poets, there are not so many of them, and it’s true, but we have late metaphysicians, and they come out, in general, from early metaphysics, replacing bobrov hmm, an amazing poet. mm, thank god. here he published a two-volume book and now another huge poem will be released, large works written in russian in verse. and yes, as far as the seventeenth century is concerned. these are peaks. it's mountainous the pinnacles of russian poetry are higher than pushkin's

lermontov higher cannot be compared. what does higher mean? eh? it's just that there are different levels, different levels, different languages. well, pushkin is also outdated now for the modern reader. it is just as outdated not in prose, but in verse it is just as outdated and requires almost the same commentary. how to keep, you know? well , not quite the students once asked me. uh, they asked the question, what is suma? no, it’s easier work and smoother such a staff asked on airplanes, the letter m is already missing here, maybe it’s tell me the amount. i say it's like a bag, yes. well, of course, i don’t agree with pushkin, but you can’t compare one with the other, because it’s completely different you go from your experience. they are not from the experience of the next generation, the price is still the situation in which we are now talking about the text as texts. and we are a favorite term. i often replicate it and found out that somewhere in norway, even someone uses it. this is

a screen failure, that is, a descreen inferior. that is, the text is not accepted. we have a screen in russian in russian. i figured it out in russian, screen failure. that is , we are used to the fact that the text is freed from all external ones. e, carriers and so on, but why can't e be popular during the life of cantemir the brilliant? kandimir, because there was no fee system for thick magazines with large circulations. eh, that's a completely different story. he was popular, just as popular as pushkin, if we take the percentage of readers, but there was no literature at all in the other era, which was impossible for the people to know. i think i'm contradicting maxim here yes, it was impossible to imagine a national russian poet at the beginning of the 18th century. it is very much external. here pushkin coincided with the professionalization of literature and the emergence of the tolstoy journal due to russia's push of russian literature to the forefront. so it happened. uh, in the forties and fifties

, this is the whole point, and comparing cantemir bobrov and pushkin is like comparing tea with sugar in a spoon. uh, uh, saucer, and so on. they all complement each other these, maybe too. but the concepts are courtiers, therefore, for example, yes it is an eighteenth century concept. can we say that the poetry of the 18th century? is this fake poetry? well, to some extent, is it possible? to say, but it can be said at the same time that she served the interests of the court. i think it matched here. well, uh, a classic example of a court poet, who, by the way, served as court librarian vasily petrovich petrov, uh, amazing and great author, and battles are happening here, everything is described there, since u are now in the cinema. yes, if you take the battle scene that is described there. yes, there are cameras. eh, so to say it is approaching, then it is moving away to

the height of a bird's flight, and so on. that is how to say courtier he is a poet. yes, he drank you all the practical main battles, and under catherine ii of the seventies, and the eighties . it seems to me that this coincided with his personal desire to compete with him, i don't know. pinder, but with a score, for example, a did not read what he knew in eight languages. eh, i learned the ninth in my old age. he taught them more than that, if you really have to matter, and velasquez is a court painter. yes pearl uh court composer. well, it's just such an institution. yes, this does not mean that this is an ideological service to the authorities. it’s just that there was no system of fees, i’ll say it again, yes, lomonosov academician chemist e, he lived by this, well, how would he live, yes, it was impossible to live poetry in this

. pushkin is not for sale inspiration, but you can sell your hand without. tried first. i 'll show you the trial balloon of such a poet was a samorog. well, yes, who tried with everyone, so he will give a shake. and he also fought very hard for authorship, because, in in the 18th century, the authorship of someone else was also not such an institution, therefore, secondly, they kept, for example, everything during their lifetime and publications in magazines. i didn’t sign or signed there, i composed z, for example, an ode to felicia, the author’s name always comes at the end, even at the beginning of 19 yes , and then in the twenties and thirties a turning point occurs, and the author comes to the fore 19. yeah, the author comes to the fore and it doesn’t even matter anymore that he wrote the adventures of chichikov or dead souls, gogol’s work, not vice versa. yes, it's uh, well, it's just like that the institution has written many books about this. well

, why did we learn the name of dionysius so late, because for the same reason there is a sacred moment not quite for the same. yes well, nevertheless did not consider it possible to be necessary for the mission. well, how would it be directly signed, like philons or problems of authorship the word about igor's regiment, of course, in general, of course, in general, of medieval authorship. moreover, i will tell you that in russia it is especially obvious that we practically do not know the author's literature before the first author, as it were, is actually ivan grozny and with rare exceptions, there, uh, some names are with a bang - under various writings, but who were they correspondence? so in the 17th century, only there was evacuation, yes, but a vacuum, here is the court poetry of the 17th century. there seven flat sylvester bear.

they already somehow signed their essay, so it was impossible to imagine a situation when someone, well, he knows, there , a million people knew rublyovo, because he was registered in a stoglav, you know, under grozny they wrote him in a stoglav that paint icons as andrey rublev painted them canonized 100 years after his death , in fact, under grozny that is, he does not channel into the circus in the church yes , he was canonized as an artist artist. dear friends, we continue our podcast with you. wonderful life. i am aleksey varlamov , a writer and rector of a literary institute. and we continue to talk with dmitry bak and maxim amelin about poetry, so how can you tell if any person who writes poetry is a poet or not? this is where the line between amateur and professional is drawn. that's when the poet begins, about which one can say, and here this is a poet, and these are poetry prospectuses. uh, it's probably maybe, but i'll say such a vision of literary theory. well, how is the theory between

enough flavor? no, uh, well, there is one criterion - time people. denmark is there, well, it's a very crafty story. uh, this is a crafty story, because, uh, for me here pushkin gives a very clear recipe. therefore, this is the one who, with his text, goes beyond the framework of personal destiny, love passed and music was conducted, and the dark mind cleared up. remember , nothing can be written from within a feeling, and this give a chance. do not understand if a woman never left me, and then did not return. i'll still understand. i remember a wonderful moment. it is not important for me to know in what state pushkin met anna petrovna kern, he wrote very ironic about it in the morning, as we know, right? well, uh, the most uh, such an ultimate absolute poet is, uh, a ninth-grader. vasya who writes eighth graders. valya, why did you leave? yes? he's all in this feeling, he's all, and i've been waiting, hoping or not? he is not a poet, but because

it is interesting to valya herself, yes to his mother, who will say don't worry son. well, somehow you will survive well, maybe a neighbor. yes, but we don't repeat it. what makes poetry a fact, but the possibility of familiarization with meanings, in addition to the situation that is described in addition to words. pushkin, here, i continued this yes , remember here, i am writing and my heart does not yearn for the soul, who forgot to draw with her near finished poems, nor women's legs. on the extinguished ashes no longer flashed, i'm still sad, because no. yes, but soon it will be quite then i will start writing, so there are 25 songs in sync remembered. yes, here's the key, that is, i'm not trying to capture self-expression, as many say, yes, write my conditional wali or a neighbor or mamik for the holiday of march 8 , something. but verses are always through death, verses through death, because any phrase

that we are now exchanging for temporarily any words that have just said do not die or everything that i just said do not die three options pronouncing the same word is not a sparrow, but a form not important. i phrased it three times three differently, yes, but all three formations are dead. and here is what you tell me to you my yes, for example, it has become forever, as long as at least one is alive, you understand, pitt can’t even read russian in russian. that is, this is the word that immediately becomes. forever eternal and whether one amelin or a million people remember him, there is no difference, good. no, i would still not like it was all listening. well, uh, it seems to me that after all , this poet is the same

. yes, it is always conscious job. check out the drafts. pushkin this is a conscious work. this is precisely the creation of a poetic text of a refined form. the only, uh, probably, pushkin's work is with the initial impression, which unconsciously then she hones endlessly all this, but the starting one, as nabokov says, is a lyrical possibility. remember the coiner. he directly analyzes the process of writing a poem by his hero, but nabokov himself by the very set of poems in the bathroom, where you are not, but plans plans plans remained from the eighteenth century. derzhavin also wrote plans, but uh, often left on different levels. about athanasius feta and you rested. and you know, you have to look no,

they can't be then there may be the next question for you, as a student of a literary institute. can poetry be taught? is it possible to educate and raise a poet? well, well, well, it's quite possible, the poet is not sure you can, but a good poet. where, then , is the line between a good poet and therefore ah. come on, as a simple line, there should be a gift like that, but mountains, and there should be another, but on one. well you know, it's like uh, once upon a time he said, i'm showing the parsnip , he said, scriabin well, listen, and he says, i'm not absolutely blue. i, too, and tchaikovsky, too, is not absolute. here, uh, you understand, you can work out some kind of technical a-a base to read the train. that is, how how to understand

arises, therefore, not uh . just only in their own language only from the forest can not. eh, now it’s possible to leave the forest, because they left the forest then, when folklore moved them, and now folklore. no, unfortunately, he died with us in the 20th century. in the history of folklore. in this sense, similar to the history of poetry, the epic had the correct forms. everything came down to pieces. all suckers. it was dart who put forward therefore, yes, that's how yesenin is zero there, for example, here such a ring 19 was periodically known from george. ivanova yes, i did a little. yes, this is understandable. well, nevertheless, it was put forward to some extent by a firework. that is

, its base, primarily folklore, that is human. really. you hear, i suspect that e lomonosov was also somehow on this folklore. uh, i mean, it's the yeast that it grew on. yes, and then he broke it. german yamps there and turned it, but is it possible to say that a poet is made by fate , that a poet is a poet who has a destiny, every poet has a destiny, for example, well, there was such a poet to a cat, for example, we have nothing about him we don’t know, i don’t know anything at all, i accepted it at all, in addition, this is his poem. what? yes, we are nothing at all we don't know him. no, we know where he lived, if we do not know, this does not mean that he did not have a destiny. we just don't know it, no, some elements of fate. he described himself . uh, the poet emily dickenson. well, all right, she lived all her life on the second floor of the attic, which means some kind of house, uh, and didn’t go anywhere else, that is, there are still some, rather

an exception, and then there really are such poets who traveled all over the world there. what kind of soul is it that therefore i will take a biography from him? right here is the idea write this biography. that's not everyone's fate , i say, there is. i have a feeling that every bitrik has a comrade. what am i talking about? well, no fate after all, it largely consists of how it is perceived, how it is heard, because the expert did not exist in the 18th century. we know this very well. well, at the very end of the seventeenth and at the beginning of the eighteenth there was no classicism. outside. they stopped hearing him, forgot him, and only the germans schlegel, one of the schleigel brothers. uh, august wilhelm schlegel. moved the experiment to the german shakespeare was rediscovered because he turned out to have the sound of romanticism. yes. and chekhov later heard an ironic promise from tolstoy that shakespeare, a barbarian , is even worse for your plays, that is, a lot depends after all on external causes and manuscripts burn slowly. again, the manuscripts will not agree, they are on fire,

because the poet must. well, after all, uh, during his lifetime to understand that he hears some kind of confirmation of some kind of response to the poet. yes, and he is only an object for archaeographic studios , nothing more, i will say that the probability the fact that there are some unknown geniuses, that they are such at all, are possible , here the present, for example, the probability is practically zero, well, that is, if we do not know, but and this does not exist anywhere, then it is unlikely, but it generally exist. this is what cannot be said about the past, because there are quite a few rediscoveries in the past, because there is such a substance in the same. it sometimes once and suddenly is in tune with time for no reason at all, but it happens that it happens not in tune, that yes, it happens. this is how elud once discovered the

english metaphysician poets tom stas yes, this is he opened wrote such an article at 20:00, and therefore everyone remembered the trophies from then, there was no one before john. brodsky where did the great elegy of john dollar come from? brodsky is around, and before that, well, it was somehow published, but no one paid such attention to him. you are trying to do the same with the russian eighteenth. yes, i generally considered that this is my mission. yes, this is my mission. i have to get it back somehow. but i hardly have enough, uh, there are people who are working on this case, not only me thank god three people have gathered here who love more and love it like i do, it's like how it fits into this program of the 18th century absolutely

fits into anyone in anyone, and the literature of such a bright barak was such a poet well, but in the twentieth century, what is happening with russian poetry, let's not talk about everything with russian. it arises, in general, due to objective reasons, uh from the revolution. yes, it has two currents. in general, it's one. and it's so objective. uh, the poetry that was in the soviet union there is practically no second plan , i mean, for example, in the soviet who who specifically names and take anyone on the soviet orthodox socialist well, after let's throw away the romantics there tikhonov silvinsky, because they are still good? yes, and whom we will discard zabolotsky from you. well, who will be left? well, as who will remain, well,

the whole literature worked? yes, even molds, unfortunately. tvardovsky where there is no second plan, isakovsky and so on, is a second plan needed? i'll bet. uh, maxim there was poetry in emigration cultivated precisely this second plan, for example, refusing. well, how? well , i don’t know ivanov there, adamovich, and so on. they cultivated this second plan well. and here, and those who remained here pasternak akhmatova mandelstam oh well, it was good, it was good. well, mandelstam, uh, also tried to somehow build in the system. he tried to eat obvious attempts, but unsuccessful ones he couldn’t. he got settled, practically could not build. here's how i tried. but how? well , of course, well, everything will be fine with her. here at the same time i wrote completely different poems, i will argue, yes, in my opinion, i have been talking about this

to students for many years. hmm, the most mysterious poems. poems are auto-logical, that is, without metaphors, the most perfect, for example, i loved you, love is still to be. maybe this is exactly what is said, without a second plan, without any second plan. or if everything for which we grew up and missed and cried, both of us would end up with a handful in the ground, the surface of the pine coffin. if a new life, o soul, begins in a black grave. how good she must be was earthly forgotten, that is, it was poetry without a background. this is the greatest achievement, because the second plan we are accustomed to all sorts of uh, uh numerous plans. yes, you think that metaphors, there is a second plan, it is not a second plan. so what is the second plan. it's something else. it's something else, what kind of text it's like it's standing there . hmm, i'm not sure that there is a genius solid.

he says they are bad stories. in brodsky, where there is a second plan, in some places there is in some places, because he is also, in general, a soviet poet of a different kind. he is according to the soviet poetry crossed with there i don't know english with john you see, uh. he took it from crystal, and he did it, but this is an unconventional look, of course because for me, of course, the unattainable peak is the block. uh, because well, of course, he has, well, how would i say it more accurately, but he has a lot of poems, uh, without which he could do, it's true, but a large corpus, but such a holistic transformation of himself into poetry. we do not see, yes, that is, these are three books, three books of the poet, where is it, like hegel, no matter how the convergence of absolutely ideas, eternal femininity, sin, uh dance uh, music, uh,

bow and then the state revolution and 12. yes. here is the inaccessibility. the state of the revolution is lenin no no no i mean i didn't misspoke. i am not quoting. in this case, that for the blocks of the first book the theme is the eternal femininity of solovyov, yes, which here just was the rustle of a dress and so on, in the second book is the city of a snowstorm. music dance, demonism, stranger here is my convergence of absolute femininity to the ground. yes, here is against the city. naturally, remember the factory at school taught? yes, the windows are yellow, but, and then the third book - this is the same theme, the symbolic has already endured. this drama is transferred to forms. e political device. the teacher of his state assembly. this is the most paradoxical thing about the block. you

are in this in this the whole thing on the kulikov field we taught at school, not realizing how paradoxical this story is. political poetry in general, well, it's vyazma, it's tyutchev, of course, yes. in general, what is this political poetry on field kulikovo because, uh, what is politics? the policy of politics is a way of representing the private will in the collective, well, in the party. yes, this is politics, relatively speaking, uh, the blog, uh, in its later poems , gets to where tyutchev did not go . yes, because uh, this one is symbolic that there is still progress. no, this is not progress. this is a completely separate top of the block, in my opinion, this is not my favorite poet. don't think my favorite, that's why it's a strain. and i’m honest, i’m saying it straight, yes, but uh , this titan uh, alexander alexandrovich blog. it is absolutely attainable, it is separate. this is the pinnacle, which, in addition to all the symbolisms of acmeisms. eh, another one lifts up the word to god. yes

, but here we didn’t go down to brodsky, let’s return to brodsky the classic phrase that a poet is an instrument of language agree. it was the pass that he said, it was he who took the upas, octavia is dangerous. yes, not translated poorly translated little translated fascia, but nevertheless, you still agree with this. no, i don't agree. why is the poet an instrument of language, and why not? well, because it's not a tool after all, and vice versa language - this is his tool, as it were, this is his tool. this is his material, with which he works, and which he vaginas, he does not. wait wait, and these are tools, but the language resists. yes, for example, i am fighting for the sacrament of the future tense. hey, why can't you tell? a pouring ball is an incoming person, yes, but even where i'm afraid, i take into account the nature of alexander savich's language. solzhenitsyn created the language of its extension. yes, but it still

works on the material of the language. brodsky, in my opinion, argues. uh, something that's not embarrassing. not for him, not for the language, just a poet is impossible outside of matter, if we express ourselves by smells or telepathically someday bypassing language, then we will overcome it, and as long as there is no telepathic poetry, the poet works in language on language and, of course, language is more than a poet, but this is absolutely certain in general, language is the most mysterious thing. where do all these grammatical categories come from. er, why is there no future participle? who so decided who in general? no, each language is invested in its own way, there are languages ​​in which they are, so potential ones in russian can also to be, but, but something is not, for example, not, e is an active verb and to have, but it is not our formative. uh, different tenses and forms. i remember how