but all the same, he works on the material of the language, brodsky, in my opinion, claims. e, something that is not ashamed, not for him not for language, but simply a poet is impossible outside of matter, if we express ourselves with smells or telepathically sometime bypassing language, then we will overcome this, and as long as there is no telepathic poetry, poet works in language on language and, of course, language is more than a poet, but this is absolutely accurate and in general, language is the most mysterious thing. where do all these grammatical categories come from. um, why are there no future participles? who decided who at all? no, each language is invested in its own way, there are, uh, languages ​​in which they are, that's potentially. they can also be in russian, but, but, but something is not there, for example, not, e has an active verb, but it is not our formative. uh, different tenses and forms. i remember how now all other

european languages, this is our big difference to someone from the english. eh, i was horrified by the word defenders, god what a complicated ugly thing, whether it speaks to us, he e deus everything is just in four words. yes? yes. here, brodsky rights. ah, yes, the matter of language, i can’t speak a package to compare with any spirit, because we don’t have tones there. yes, how not to pronounce, home or before, we don’t have long eyes. eh, it dictates the initial conditions to me, so i, of course, in a sense, the kind of language is good, as soon as they started talking about the language, but a poetic translator. moreover, it is important for you, is the ring possible or not? in principle, you can translate. yes, perhaps, in principle, it is better when it is the language of yours and common language families. well, for example, there i know italian like that, but worse. if

it's english, because translating poetry from english into russian is a martyr's torment and about 30% is cut off, uh, all long words are long words in russian are long words. but from german it’s good, because it’s also long words. please forgive your poem. for a long time you lay in the ground , idle, useless, and finally, the hour struck, you woke up from sleep, lifted your heavy head straightened, the spine, the bone cracked, crackling the vertebrae of lightning, a variety of terrible thunder for a mortal . bold boomed. suddenly heaven a large city trembled, scattering shabby stones, turning on the fly into sharp, elongated drops. akin to grains eager to sprout and still no matter how not to sprout emerald grass or karim forest. is there still some growth of frequent

you have lain in the ground for a long time idle useless, but here it honestly waited for some time, for it is better to oversleep the vanity and disdain the unrestrained immovable. i am shorter than to stray with small ridged surfaces to the touch, occasionally stumbling, laughing, cheerfully, preaching everything is good and glorious. that's why they call you genuine, not knowing the river speech. these are great poems, mistletoe, classic. well , dear friends, we had wonderful poetry. the life of wonderful poets. a life of great poetry. and i am alexei varlamov , writer and rector of the literary institute and my two wonderful guests dmitry petrovich tank and maxim albertovich thank you very much , friends. thank you thank you hello this

is a podcast of the psyche and we continue to read the book of human judgment to look for a way out of the most difficult situations and see the light at the end of the tunnel, which, of course, there is always. i journalist. my name is natalya loseva, my co-host clinical psychologist mikhail khors and our guest today, who is mikhail in the literal sense, both a beauty and an athlete, a wonderful girl oksana hello oksana , what brought you to us? tell your story. i had a difficult relationship. uh, we, uh, lived with a young man, and 5 years in a civil marriage. that was not easy. he was a tyrant and manipulator, and he periodically had breakdowns. ah, that is, he shouted, arranged disassembly scandals, and there from scratch could arrange. ah, the screams. there he raised his nose, and there were situations, yes, and kia and 2 years, as i in

the truest sense of the word, he fled from him during these two years. uh this man continues to haunt me, and how could i not find a solution to this problem. he pursues you on social networks or in the direct physical even in social networks, blocked him everywhere on the phone. i blocked him too. that is, he doesn’t, well, has no contact with me, and the only opportunity to somehow find me and, uh, sort of keep trying to reconnect. this is a sport. that is, as if he himself is also an athlete, and you are either a sheet, and as if we have all tournaments , matches, competitions, they all pass. uh, well, no matter how publicly available information is forced to intersect at competitions, it turns out that he does not play at these competitions does not participate. where are you coming? yes

, in what state of mind are you entering the game during these competitions? yes, and what he does in this comes and waits until the game is over. accordingly, you go out, i go out. yes, he is trying. so how do you get in touch. let's go sit somewhere. let's be brief, well, let's talk, we need to discuss so much with you, but it's nice, but it's not scary. well, well, you say, i will not go with you to the cafe with you. we have nothing to explain all this complicated story, because it’s impossible to get away from him just like that, that is , he clings to himself like claws and just , well, doesn’t give a way out, so i had to a ask the girls, a that they should be with me , well, either they put me in a taxi, or we went down to the subway together there and were driving, but again, this hmm is not the way out, because he is again. uh, followed us. and

that is, i simply could not do some nasty things to you, i don’t know, some kind of usual story. if there is no prior story, let's let's hear it. yes, we are talking specifically about persecution. here is the last incident that happened in december. i asked my friend to meet me after the game near the subway new young man. no , this is my friend, just a friend, and like, well, that is, he knows, uh, i periodically invited to the games, so that he would meet me, so that i could safely safely leave, and the competition hall. and, accordingly, when he saw him, he once again came to meet me after the competition, and he attacked him. they had a young man. yes, the young man attacked him. they had a fight and it's good that, well, they passed nearby. the man and they,

in short, pulled them apart. yes, and, as it were, i immediately called the police, the police arrived and we went to the station to write another statement. that's why again why's another statement? yes? well, as if here , uh, a little more serious situation, that is , beating a person - it is possible that even an article. but how, well, everything is in order, how would everyone remain alive, that is, a couple of bruise scratches, as if, well, how would it all end, as it were, but the fact itself, and before that i wrote more report five times to the police. uh, about the fact that he comes , uh, well, to my apartment and to cover up my front door because of the smear with epoxy glue. uh, there liquid nails. so that you you can key, then i can not put. i mean , uh, i've had to do it many times already. yes, let's put aside today's story now. let's try to go back a little.

i heard correctly that you lived with this young man for 5 years, yes, yes, and all these 5 years. i understand that this violence continued periodically. yes, it was like such flashes, that is, for a certain period of time. he took himself well. but, probably, due to the fact that we lived on my territory, how would my but this happened only in the house or he could himself on the street to allow you to expose somehow. uh no, usually clearly in the seventeenth there was no such thing in front of people. yes, well, arrival. yes, he lived with me. you told our guys that there was a case in the crimea when he told you. yes, yes, tell us all the same. ah, well, my niece and i turn out 2 years ago, just this happened immediately after our parting, literally, probably, a month. and we went to rest. and, accordingly, he was able to track me down,

because i myself am a fool. i left my mail. well, on his phone, that is, as it were, and he had pop-ups, pop-up windows. here notifications came about what else and watched. what operations are there, what are they doing and it turned out that he found out that i was booking a hotel in the crimea, uh, and he came there. yes, he arrived, there, and so how. well, i play there every volleyball for me everything. well, i mean, it's. it's my life. eh, how would the guys and i be there with the company, but he also plays. just. well, they were putting out fire on the beach and playing ball. well, he just came to us without asking. for me. it was a shock, because how could i, well, did not know that such a thing can actually happen. and he, well, starts, like, let's go play. i

say i don't want to play. he takes his phone and throws his phone at me. he says, let's go grab my hand. well, they start dragging. i'm just on it all happening in front of everyone. yes, it's all happening in plain sight. once again we will put aside the situation that after parting, uh , before i hand you over, so to speak, the gentle psychological hands of michael tell me, please. it went on, here's your wicked life bullying with violence for five years. why didn't we leave earlier yes, i understand that this looks very absurd. well , because like any healthy person in any conflict situation. can easily pick up and leave. if he doesn’t like something, but here lies another very serious problem. and my personal character. and i would like to talk about it too. it's that i

had a sick mother. uh, the fact is that i am a late child in the family, and my mother was 40, when i was born my father was 50 and you understand, that is, a hard life, perestroika it's the nineties, that is, uh, she did not spare herself three children. and, of course, that is, by the age of 60, she no longer had health. practically and it turned out that the last 10 years of life. a. well, i practically dedicated to her because, well, she was my favorite dear person in my life. well, i wanted the best for him and i wanted her to be healthy , to cope with problems a little with help, yes, so that she would wish a little for pleasure, but how would health

it is what it is and turns out at 60 years old. she had her first stroke. here she was heavy in intensive care, and she was barely pumped out. ah, she was paralyzed on the right side, that is, she literally ended up in your arms, ended up in my arms. and uh , it’s not like the most difficult problems there, because i more or less cured her. everything was fine, all the problems started when, 3 years later, she was diagnosed with, uh, diabetes. uh, and it was a real sentence, because, and after that it fell down, that is, and you could not do anything you tried to do it and nothing works. yes? hmm it was a very difficult period,

because i had scandals in hospitals and showdowns in hospitals. e could not write out normal treatment spent for my mother for my mother's life. yes, yes, and she ended up in the hospital. well, so that you understand with a frequency of once every four months, and you lost, in the end. and i lost at that moment. uh, when she once again, that is, he had two heart attacks. and after the second heart attack, the doctor tells me that no matter how we can do anything do. uh , her heart is only working at 18%, i mean, a pacemaker or a bypass will no longer help, that is, only a heart transplant, as it were, well, a person, uh, diagnosed with diabetes, a stroke and past heart attacks, as it were, that is , well, you understand, he, well, uh, this operation as if she would not have endured mother is dying. and,

well, in the end, yes, she dies and it turns out. eh, these are three years. but when we just got acquainted with my civilian, they fell out with this husband, here they were at the peak of the difficult period. uh, when mom is very strong i was sick, and i needed psychological support, because, well, i myself couldn’t cope that he was the person who could become your support to support you, as if in part i was looking for him, and not just like a man. yes with whom well i wanted to live a friend. well, like support. yes , you didn’t have much time to look for something, but the opportunity to choose with your psyche. my name is natalya loseva, a journalist. there, my leading candidate of psychological sciences, mikhail khors, and our

today's guest oksana, a beautiful girl, who has lived under the rule of a tyrant for five years and still does not get rid of him until the end , it’s still a question for me, but i felt that same help and support from him all these years. he gave you something, well, part, yes, i felt that, no matter how indifferent to him. uh, how would my mom's health take her to the hospital for discharge. well, as if with money, that is, he worked, brought his salary, they worked at that time. well, i haven't been working lately. that's why i can't say that he is purely dependent there on mine. yes, there he lived in my apartment and on his laurels such happiness flashes, then it already began , and these flashes actually began, about four months later, as we began to live. and you somehow discussed these outbreaks with him. here to talk about this

, tell how painful it is for you to tell that he is terrible to experience these outbreaks. he believed that i was to blame for all these situations, you talked to him , you told how it hurt and scared you. of course, well, at least he tried to listen to it, but he listened, but again, i can catch word for word translate into new scandals and showdowns yes, where i would be extremely guilty of all the stormy ones with assault and throwing things , there were moments when he collected all his things , walked around the apartment, and folded suitcases, i say. that's it i'm leaving. and you here in this situation cried vasily to remain. no, i didn't ask to stay. i'm just a little sober, as if looking at these things, that is, not from the position of a victim. well, how would hmm me yours, well, how would it be quite difficult, because and in such situations i

funny, that is, two adults who live together share the life of life, and they come up with a wet. well, just from scratch some simply fantastic stories. yes, but they can't agree. well, i personally find it funny, it's clear that, and i couldn't handle it. well, with the violence of his desire to hurt me, but to humiliate me, and so on, because, well, i’m by nature a very kind person and you never respond in kind to all his attempts, but how to cause not suffering only accepted, that is, this is the only thing that oksana did the right thing. it seems to me that this is a very wise position or it is a deepening of the situation. here is the reaction. i am soft , kind, accepting. she is good, if a person has variability.

if at some point he can be tough, strong and even aggressive oksana's variability or her, in principle, a person has the right to answer from hard and soft, and he chooses. that's great, but when a person does not have the opportunity to answer harshly, then such a person is called not kind and gentle, but helpless. well, victim, yes in this situation, here is kindness and gentleness, they are kindness and gentleness when we e have the opportunity to answer and as the proverb good should be with fists. i do not like the word good, but that's what it's about. and what should i have moved him in response to, when he swung at her enough and there would be no phone, but you can understand , but it seems to me that oksana has such a variant of events of such a scenario, in principle, i can calmly, yes? she shines, if she could, she

would come up and answer. and maybe, physically , she can make it personally forbidden worth, most likely, is the traditional family values ​​of nurturing with a good family woman. we don't have this in the family , never these assemblies. yes, call this upbringing good when a child is not given. e education does not lay the right to defend oneself, including with fists, i would not call this education something family relations the person with whom you associate some may be a person who does not beat you, you understand, but if he beats. that can be the answer closest to you. it's you yourself we forget about it all the time. tell me, please, oksana a. this is the first man in your life who, in one form or another, used violence against you, not necessarily physical. yes, the coach never allowed

himself to somehow press you. dad, well, only psychologically, as it were, this is the norm for education. yes, athletes, of course, a different story. it seems to me that they don't know how to motivate in any other way, except for the humiliation of mikhail . maybe, so this is oksana's life line with her young man, uh, a tyrant and a rapist. she could somehow be provoked by her previous experience with the coach, because she really is a coach. moreover, there are no women's teams yet, history. no. it's a completely different story here. here is a story of not being ready for such an event in your life. she was ready that the scoundrels of the wounds would come, especially since it came in straws, right? o helped with mommy oksana and still has an opinion. why, if you live with a person, then this is the closest person, of course, yes, this is

not of course you. see. you have already got into a life situation, when you live with a person, and he bludgeons you there, insults naked under the covers together. yes, one more time. it's not a sign of closeness. this is not a sign. this is a fact of business. you see, these are people close, humiliating a person is mistaken if she does not trust him and women can be different, but there are women of different social responsibility. they can let unrelated men into bed, wait, wait for a psychologist. give the psychologist the same word to say like this again, but it is important to be an adult in life. did you have any family attitudes from your parental family, right? that family is sacred, what if you you live, it means hmm we blow off the dust particles, apparently how mom and dad behaved, but in real life you encountered a different behavior. uh-huh, but continued to treat in the old way, uh

scenario. see, here's the problem. the problem is that you were not ready to change your attitude towards the world and the realities that you faced. yes, for me personally it turned out. it's easier to change partners. yes, she will do only in 5 years. yes, one more time. but in principle, yes, sometimes such people are completely corrected by hitting a frying pan on the head, and they stop talking to everyone a statement is written. maybe so, but, and again. and so, too, i can talk about a frying pan , as it were, yes, well, there is something of some kind of factor of aggression, for example, because i was brought up again. e in the opinion of what to be aggressive? you can’t just say yes, two types of people who behave aggressively with these outbursts mean, and these can be normal people. mentally healthy, who do not have

the skill of self-regulation, they have somewhere irritation accumulates accumulates accumulates splashes out the cap blows. yes, and there are people who are called psychopaths. means, this is their uh, just a characteristic of personality, violence, another second characteristic of their personality is narcissism, when they love themselves there very, very much, and the third characteristic is, uh, the rapture of power over another person and unwillingness. here, uh, rule and the unwillingness of this person to lose the pathology. yes , psychopathy is the norm, right, but a little bit of psychopathy in each of us is not the norm, when a person needs these outbursts of aggression it doesn’t work. you see, then he is most likely a psychopath. that is. if he once they said i was in pain, the second they said i felt bad. i'm scared. it's hard for me when you act like this. and he does not correct his behavior, does not try, does not drink. the pill does not go to a psychologist, nor does it

do anything. yes, then, most likely, he is quiet, who will behave like this. here's to our viewers. this is a clear answer. how to distinguish yes , it’s really there your loved one has something accumulated, yes, and it flared up, or is it just a psychopathic leak. i have two questions. how to understand? is it possible with to work with this person is also the second, if you understand that it is useless to work, how to remove him from your life, firstly, how to talk to them? yes? here is to talk. there are two positions, the so-called position, and you are the position of people very often, but when they do wrong, you choose the position when they say you are misbehaving. you're not good. you are sick. you're a fool. yes, you're bad aggressive it's you position. and in such a position, well, we only inflame the conflict, and we make it even more, i position is just the one that i said when you

act like that without a son. it's just that when you act like that , it really hurts me badly. i am your loved one, please, and now, if you said once in position, the third well, the fifth. a person does not correct his behavior, at least to some extent. yes, at least it does not show any dynamics, most likely, this is a psychopathic personality, which must be beaten from. he can also enjoy. just this. yes, she says, it’s hard and painful for me, and he begins to rise in you such a shameful quiet pleasure from his shoulder blades from its domain action. definitely psychopaths do not experience shameful conscience pleasure. i don't think so. he would have prepared these scandals so subtly. well, that is, using different means. yes, what i'm saying here, i threw the phone there. he even had a case he nailed the phone to the wall, nailed his phone to the wall. well, it's

manipulation. see how to what? you brought me and yes i wanted to thereby show that you are controlled. victimizing through guilt is a classic. what was the last straw? that's when you do decided that you would run away from him. well, the last straw, it was probably what i felt that we survived our relationship. so, how would i, well, that is, he etched the good. you just felt it. yes, there is nothing more warm for you to him. well, yes, the fact that there is nothing warm. yes, it's already, as it were , already she, like the accumulated computer in me , has matured, so to speak. mom ah. yes, after the death of my mother , it turns out 2 years, almost 2 years have passed since the death of my mother. and like, yes. the first year is very, very hard. i was

to psychologically survive the loss, as it were , of a loved one, and in the second year, i, well, as if i felt all some kind of resource, a resource in order to change this situation. and uh, as if the most impetus was the fact that we somehow went to eat without maloylov, the park was full of bicycles. and well, i look at me in short, uh, the network did not catch on the phone. i say, like, you can give me your phone , my network does not catch. i want to see. a. well, where are we? well, to somehow leave just innocent, and he gives his phone. well, i quickly look where we are and catch a glimpse. in the meantime, he was smoking, i was thinking, well, yes, i got into his whatsapp to read who he communicates with there, only curiosity will let people down. and no, i don’t feel that how i would have done it, that they did everything right, that they found it, my conscience does not torment me. well, as it were, i just had

a desire to make ours, as it were, and the fact that he took away the correspondence of a girl with girls. yes, there are kissing hearts. good night sweetie, when we see each other again, well, in general , everything is in this context, god sent this the situation really and do not reproach yourself. get into your correspondence. let the audience in white coats forgive me, they absolutely deserve it in this situation, mikhail agrees. well, yes , to understand this, and it gave us the strength to get together and just be like it happened. it was a planned operation, because before that i had already tried to escape from him, but it ended extremely horribly and negatively. there was a situation where my things were stolen. uh, there i called the police and wrote a statement again. this is a very complicated story. if i

i will tell you no matter what. that is, this attempt was not the first. yes, more or less successfully proved that we agreed again, so to speak. and here, and the second, as if escape i already planned in advance, that is, uh, i rent an apartment, here. thank god in advance at that moment at the moment when i was planning to leave him, and we lived in a rented apartment, then due to the fact that i sold the previous apartment and transferred it to another project and for some time, well, we were forced to live on rented apartment. and it was like i would like to split these costs in half. he was financially dependent on you, well, in terms of housing. i think yes, and at this moment you are leaving the apartment that you rented together and leaving for another rented apartment. yes, i rented an apartment in advance and found a

driver who will transport me all my things. but he once again went to work there, and i just collect all my things in a few hours. eh, i'm loading. it's all a car and i'm leaving. apartments, well, at the same time, well, of course, without informing about anything. how long does it take him appeared, and he came home at about 7:00 in the evening and, accordingly, well, he arrived at an empty apartment, and he immediately began to call. eh, i didn’t move at all for a month, probably a month and a half. that is, as if calmed down, so to speak, there is no competition. neither there, nor training, something else, that is, i screwed everything up. and i just waited for the time, i think, well, now, uh, a month or two will pass there. he will calm him down a little, respectively, blocked everywhere. but as time has shown

, he has been chasing you for 2 years, yes, mikhail see de facto. resolve this situation. it is possible only by some psychological methods. let's try to help oksana build a strategy, what does she need to do to advise him off? what to do? it's useless here, everything is clear. try to run away from them. ask other people for help, but it's like hell, no. wait natalia yes, so the only question here is how much oksana will endure, yes, all this work. and this is work. this is work, if a person became a victim of a psychotic personality, then it is directly important to lay time for yourself so that from these relationships, which on the other side do not e, it means that e do not break off, it is important to get out of them. well, it's terribly unfair what she has to become. i don't know, in my opinion, if a person climbs a psychopathic relationship with a psychopath. yes

, it is fair that it will be hard and painful for him later. now look at tactics such as dragging this episode on the beach somewhere before you in the literal sense, what should you do? shout help save kill. this is what needs to be done. you see, here is the first recommendation again to parents. please. take the child to the forest and fight with him in the throat together so that he has inner permission for these cries for help. yes, this is important. this is the first. yes, that is, that ’s all, even if they don’t beat you and don’t drag you, you still scream. nobody will judge you for this. shout, they will look at you. she's like crazy. well, everyone is watching the separation

of the police, please, in the head, people in the police department treat you as a person who brought them difficulties. yes, that's why they're trying to get you. they just write. well, this is also a problem. it is too difficulties and so on, so no, but don't get into people's heads, first of all. many people will sympathize with you, such as help. yes, someone will pass by, someone will think a fool. well, let them think you think about yourself, and not about what they think of you? this is the parental, see what your uncle says about you. yes? well, that means, well, they are clear how you simply can’t get into this situation. one of the first steps is not to force a man towards you. you don't have to put a man in here. all if a man wants to hook up with you. it's already like this a bell in the modern world, you know, it happens in every way, but in the modern world, the financial

situation first recovers to its financial situation, and then maybe the scientist, who in 5 years will take it away. eh yes 20.000 for the apartment. he can find here, let him come, he says, you have an apartment there, i understand that the rent costs 40. you see, i give 20, we live together. yes, this is normal, a man, so, in fact , there are men doing science fiction. look there, she says everything is fine, says fantasy. it turns out that her wife is sharp, the picture is normal, stylish, i don’t know what an injured woman in the share across is. yes, oksana was undoubtedly injured to some extent , these injuries can be filled. well, understand the injury. and we inflict ourselves with an assessment of all this, for example, something like this. horror and hell. yes, when we ourselves get used to these assessments, they injure us, but on