i'm not going to assume you will say it is similar to what you experienced or not. and it seems to me that there was a lot of anger suppressed once something is so unfair. so i should not be a child, like all other children. why is this all happening to me? why should i not asking me. you put me in a position where i have to perform the functions that exist, with which i can not cope. well, then, from the age of 12, i began to think of losing my front teeth, of course. it’s just that they began to delete them all the time from me, and i was there, well, at the moment there are only 13 for a 12 year old girl. yes, it fell apart, of course. and you were angry with your mother, before that you couldn’t and didn’t

get angry. these are different things. well, it seemed to me that they didn’t love like that, they should love me like that. do you remember the thoughts that came in it could stick there google put. well, dad, only his army showed for a week , google did nothing to put. it's natural to yell at me it's like hello to ignore me to be silent with me. do you remember your thoughts in childhood such as, for example, that without mommy and daddy would be better. well, you couldn't help but compete with you, so it's not obvious that your dad betrayed at the moment when you were left in the arms of your mom. dad started drinking, it's really a betrayal. it's just that you could not

help but compete with your mother in your youth, as any girl competes with her mother for her father's attention for her youthful beauty, and this could not have happened. it just goes differently for everyone. how is your daughter? well, my dad seemed to me there, my beloved took more. to me seemed to be 6-7 years old. i was there next to him, sometimes i hugged him, everything stopped already. it started at 12:00 in general , it seemed to me that in general. deleted all my life and my father, too, of course, but this here is the period between my mother's accident and my mother's mansurd. and when mom came to her senses how did she manifest herself in relation to you? was she

grateful to you, for example, for the care that i provided and somehow the relationship in actions somehow changed. well, i don’t remember that it was also expressed directly, then i appeared on the peak. here is this network business, she is like vociferous here and there without end. well, you need to earn money, money, and and, as it were, it doesn’t exist either. me and myself, too, somehow. yes , why loneliness came at that very moment at 12:00, when you became adults , you were not yet ready for this adult life. not all of them were doing their own thing. in general, you were left to your own devices, right? i have a feeling that this is what you began to re-experience when you got married and said that this is such a childish position, that now, finally, i can be a child, really next to a man like that, yes, that's why i covered it all, but with vedic knowledge , floor-length skirts even like that. yes. thank you. uh-huh yes yes

yes and, accordingly, a flying, fluttering woman having been a child for 10 years. you haven't grown up yet. growing up is starting so much now everything has worsened, because i allowed it there, i don’t know already some kind of it. not that rudeness, but some can already be started. naturally, all this happened to you. i wanted to be still a child , they played in a relationship with my husband, where such a pseudo-eternal woman was fully shown. this under the kostrigery and with you we are sergey nasebyan and

tatyana krasnovskaya, psychologists and psychotherapists, and we are talking with victoria when my mother died in the twelfth year, as you survived, the zombie’s death became frozen, i had anemia there at that time and that’s it. i became a stone. why it seems that they were already old enough and my mother was ill for a long time, obviously, but the fate of centenarians did not shine. at the same time, why were there illusions about my theme should live forever, and what was not expressed? you to her hatred and anger and resentment , and there are fears. i don't know anything no, everything, just did not express. here's another i remember the period when she passed away, i went to the training and made a decision

stop everything, i can not go. it was sunday. on thursday. i kept it and here's another guilt for it was. yes? i just told you about this a few minutes ago. look, it turns out that as soon as i break off my contact with my mother. mom dies and a key form of separation from mom. this is her death and a normal person. it's not a feeling of guilt in you, it was superimposed on some kind of superstition. and this superstition was not formed in at training training. unfortunately , holotropic breathing imposes everything when people start talking about the universe from the army. it doesn't matter what kind of training, when people come out of there with the idea

that there is a certain universe, that there are some signs, streams, resources, vedic aspects are superimposed on superstition where superstition is formed from is another matter. have you been superstitious before? why did it happen this way. now look, that's why i assumed that the feeling of guilt was formed at the moment when you just looked at mom. when she's in a hospital bed and a child might develop guilt at that moment, well, of course, grandma helps a lot. she directly fonit it, yes speaking speaking speaking about it. yes, it’s just that i, too, just like you in childhood, were accused of bringing mom here or bringing dad there. so you see what you brought everyone to, but i was like a goose , yes it was, but at the same time none of us is able to avoid the thought of when mom beats you, when mom swears, when mom screams that we would be better off without you

these thoughts that the child is frightened of, and suddenly the child sees his mother. he knows his thoughts and the grandmother connects them at this moment. look what you brought your mother to, and here a certain subpersonality arises, which says that you are to blame for what is happening there and now you need to stop being yourself, stop laughing. well, as in childhood, you know, we were told not to swear. mom will die. and that's why everyone believed that it was impossible to swear by mother, they swore by lenin there a pioneer tie, anything, but something that is already dead, but you can’t be alive, because they will die, and they will die. imagine people are dying. yes, mothers, fathers, children of the cat dog die, everyone absolutely dies. if you are already talking about the existential crisis with which we came, then at the very beginning of your monologue. i noticed one very interesting thing that i said later and i will tell you

now. you are afraid to grow up because growing up will lead you to death. and you said it by expressing this phrase to the dying no one goes to a psychologist. i wanted to be indignant at this moment and tell you one simple thing. do you really believe that there is a non-dying psychologist? do you really believe that there is anyone who does not die, the only reality that exists is this death your death my death. i've been dying with you for several minutes here and no one has yet gone back on the suev she makes you helpless the death of your mother. and here it is important that you kind of understand for yourself and recognize either this the child was forgiven for the thoughts that he had at the moments when his mother beats him. well, because if mom is not just cold,

when mom begins to express emotions and beats you, because at that moment you feel that she hates you, a loving mother will not beat you. and in response to you, of course, there was a huge amount of hmm anger, aggression against her. well , of course, it was impossible to show it. and you received this signal that these are taboo feelings, and you learned to swallow them, erasing your teeth at the root of this thought. is that what you were playing at school when i saw you grandmother? now it means that something is wrong with you lies behind the door on which death is written. you will open the door, you will understand that you are going out into this world, you will die and no estimates of a vedic woman, there,

i don’t know, an exalted teenager. yes, you do not stop this flow. yes, i'm already a forty-year-old aunt. soon i do not know how your relationship with your spouse will develop. i do not know how your relationship with other men will develop. yes, but i know for sure that your relationship with yourself will be more honest only after you accept this fact. and the fact that, yes, you were mad at her. and the fact that these are completely unrelated things is her accident, and your anger sits on a palm tree from palm trees coconut falls for ours. well, let's just say that from a linear view it seems that these are related events, but in exactly the same way as a crow could not sit down. the coconut could have fallen off the planting. yes, here it happens just like that in our psyche. she tries to build everything in linearity, because only when

it is clear, yes, that one follows the other and it seems that as a result she writes. and further, when you start to consider it is very difficult. stratify to separate these events, but your task is to allow this to be a kaleidoscope of events. yes, things have happened in your life. you built logic, where it was not necessary to build logic, of course, not in your favor. thank you all, of course, good teachers understand? but it 's not a shame, they could no longer act differently in a different way. there is no 12-year-old child, whom she fell upon. that's all you need to build some kind of protection. well just now it doesn't help you in any way, that's why i'm here and opening this door, which sergei said with the name of death. you and your daughter will be able

to build a real, more honest, or something relationship, without trying to protect her on the one hand. with this fading, after all, she is also a cross-country being a real living mother nearby. and this fear that we feel awe of death. it is the natural norm. you can't run from him. you need to learn how to live it, so here it is very important to live it, perhaps in some of the practices in the body practice. it's great to live, but it 's important that you learn to look there and understand that once you become an adult, everything from now on. well, how would you stop, but somehow grow up and begin to grow old. yes, there, it means that we are going to this very death; moreover, when mom leaves , of course, there is no one else between us and death now, because parents, including psychological ones, perform the function of protection between me and death, while they are me it's like

he's not supposed to die yet. yeah well, not next but it's in the linear category again categorical, when we understand that in fact there is no only we. uh-huh well, this is another story about the fact that every decision you make to turn away from what comes from the fact that we are still going to death. it doesn't stop this movement. well, yes, the process, and these are all more than 20 years old. it still happened to turn away. turn away today. well, this is happening, for example, sergey told his little six-year-old son, three-year-old told him that we are all dying here. this, by the way, also eh yes. this kid must have been a little surprised. dad. what is death? i said what is happening to you right now i will tell you how i say it. you've been dying for three and a half years. he says, and you her and i die. there he cried for his mother, naturally

he cried. well, i was sincerely convinced and still convinced that i would rather tell this truth in three and a half years than tell him a story about the fact that someday they will come up with a pill and we will all live forever. and this fear, and death is very important to he was directly lived and was with him, he is the norm for every living being on earth . well, okay? what are you leaving with today victoria that there was some feeling that the door to mom's story is already closed, the last key, the key, yes, i close it, this is her story, there i had a story with this. the door with death to mom all the time, why

philosophical and earth in reality will wake up tomorrow. and what seems to me, really, adults, only people can meet and already yes, because it turns out, as if i were there for you so much time. disbelief that there is, well, fearing her death. well, i got stuck and in my childhood the ancients did not just say the moment. mora they said, remember death.

they didn't talk, avoiding her, they said just remember, they uh-huh, and you visit the cemetery once, i had this thought all the time of our program. for some reason, i really want to recommend that you go to the cemetery, no matter how it sounds now. i was there once after quarantine , there was a recommendation for the twenty-first year, when you go to the cemetery, until you reach it graves, there will be other graves. and on the graves of everyone, the date of birth , the date of death, and the other things between them, i want to offer you, i want to offer you, and to practice such meditation , look at the rest, you understand that the rest is death, they date at the end. the way he is this aspect of emination and it will simply become easier for you to be with it. you realize that today is, in general, the first

day of the end of your life and every new day will be the first. not a joy, it is logical to say that dying psychotherapists were with you. well is the truth so deep today? theme and thank you for coming to us with it today. it became easier for me to breathe, if there was a desire to breathe, thank you very much. thank you. it was a podcast triggers, and you were. we are tatyana krasnovskaya, sergey is psychologists and psychotherapists, and we talked with victoria about an existential crisis. hello, my name is dmitry bag. i am the host of a literary podcast called let them not speak, let them read,

of course, we are in our podcast. uh, we're talking about we talk a lot about literature. i hope it is meaningful, but all our conversations aimed at ensuring that everyone who sees and hears us read, read with pleasure. this is our mantra, our spell, our call, our recommendation, our order, whatever. it can be designated, but the main goal of our podcast is e. remind me that reading is not the past. uh, back to the last session. this topical fashion is wonderful when communicating to life through literature. that's exactly about it. today we will be talking to the guest of today's edition of the literary podcast. this is sergei ivanovich chuprinin. ah, literature. hello, editor-in-chief of the znamya magazine, let's start from the very beginning , here i am at the anniversary celebrations, and you recently celebrated your whiter

sergey ivanovich heard from you a wonderful formula that you and a northern southerner are at the same time how it happened and where at this intersection of literature and literary criticism. i was born really in the north, where my parents were exiled to build the pechora railway , a small station, it was called a bookstore, it was silpo as it should be, and in it sold, three four five books. and when i turned i don't know eight, probably nine years old, most likely lies in this kind. my parents gave me for my birthday. big money, i went to the store. i think that i should buy this for myself, and i bought a book. it was, of course, a fateful act, as they say, all my life i wanted to deal with literature and only literature from the age of 8

right, yes, this, well, not from 8:00, maybe from the eighth grade, maybe from the ninth i started buying other books. what book bought, then remember a few stories of the kabardian writer. uh-huh, i think this is due either to the fact that i did not understand anything in the literature, or with the choice that was presented. i think that the second is everything, yes, well, in the eighth and ninth grade. i have already started buying political collections. i have my favorite writers. poetry boom. these are what years these are, and again, my first book was with the godly yevgeny yevtushenko , a promise, of course, here. the first story about which i read and sunk univer aksyonov's star ticket was absolutely perfect. oh, this is a great thing. so, in this sense, i am a thaw person of that same couple. i say again that i was not a muscovite to me residents of a big city. i learned everything only from a distance

, and it seemed to me even more attractive than if i really were at the luzhniki stadium and at some mayakovsky poetry concert or something like that. it was something unattainable. she is unusually attractive and of course it's all i wrote poems. how without this young man? yes, wait a bit, the stories have been published. yes, thank god, he never published it, and in this sense he said that it was a great harm to russian literature. i don't know, it's understandable, eh, but already in the first year. it was already south. it was already rostov university when the ili returned to their historical homeland. i came with them and entered the rostov university. and there, too, two fateful events occurred. i first published in a newspaper for soviet science. there was

a university newspaper , an article was published about young, student poets, who studied with me at the same philological faculty for the second time, for the first time , he spoke at the student night at a conference with a report on nikolai gumilyov. so those were the two most important events. this continues to happen to a lot of people, but not many, then, turn out to be the editors-in-chief of the magazine znami. have you read the criticism? now that's interesting as a critique of an eighth grade article. yeah, the magazine, as it should be, everyone read the head of the bus of yunist yevgeny, the lawyer sidorov, the living stanislav rasadin. others by well no, no, this, and this is the third still fateful dog, but after some time in the fourth year. for the first time in

my life, i became the editor-in-chief of a literary that i invented myself, together with my friends, friends who studied with me, the wife was already called modestly, but well. i think it's dandelion. it was the first samozdat in the south of russia, as it turned out later. until then, it makes no sense. yes, there was never. and it's all written about it. i hope, uh, as long as there is no scientific conference already. i realized now the time is here the result. i understand the circulation of the magazine was four copies, the third issue and the last one came out with a circulation of 10 copies, and we took one copy to the region. ah, the university library. i was a few years ago in rostov to cope. it is still in the catalog. and there is a fund, it's wonderful. so everything is preserved. this is us, as a matter of fact, there was no more extinction beyond me. next moscow to engage in literature. it is clear that we need

to study further and it is clear that ideally it would be good to become the chief editor, indeed magazines thinks of me, the young chifrener did not think, they are exactly like that. well, well, you were a literary historian and you remain. that is, you are the main specialist in the most prolific russian writer, let's take a break from the moscow art theater. let our interlocutors on the other side of the screen try to guess. which russian writer is the most prolific? this is peter 200 babarykin of course god as they called him ironic for this is the most colossal writer, by the way, not bad. it's not the worst thing to read. preserved, lived mfc in century, who died in the twenty-first year under soviet rule, the author of remarkable memoirs of his era, which he met with everyone

, including, by the way, including where the name comes from. yes, including a member of the paris commune . because when the revolutionary movement was going on in paris , he was much afraid to be there and also write about it, those who brought down the first russian thick magazine did not bankrupt him. and as if, well, with him he stopped leaving the library for reading. yes, but it's already aspira is also a learned occupation. hmm, here it is. uh, let's say, too, i really wanted to, but where else would a person with literary ambitions go. i really did a little bit of work in newspapers in ordinary areas - a newspaper, then literature - a newspaper, and then i already went from spiral to newspapers, and there were thirteen. years, this is a whole whole epoch, it was a whole epoch. or the same newspaper was also a completely wonderful publication and influential and, uh, debatable, unlike

other soviet ones, if i were the director or a minister, somehow there was a rubric of this, if the minister were a director, he would be a director. this this was this this was the second notebook. these were disputes about life, and i worked. the first notebook or literary literary newspaper consisted of two notebooks, 16 pages, the last band was humorous the first eight pages or pages, and literature the second. oh, uh, social problems, so i remind you, so it is islam dear, so it is. well, our viewers wrote. well, you are nice. here's what i think you might disagree with. you always left some traces that you have patented. here i do not know one word revives feel. but there is no such person in the literary workshop who does not know that a there is a word you enliven and b sergeevich came up with it and was accepted. eh, i guess it's true, yes, uh, i

'm not sure. yes, i hope. tell me please, but what is at that moment, well, in that era. i mean, already the seventies, of course, the years to a greater extent, which i also partially found out what the book of criticism was like. it came out with a circulation of 10 or even 20.000 copies. it is beyond the present moment. yes and here is the book, and right after that they all went in different ways. who wrote a monographic work about some class or a classic of the 19th century or a classic of the soviet era. i have no personal work. there is not even a sore about anyone, although i prepared several of the distant babarykin and other writers of the early 20th century, which, nevertheless, were in those years. so i wrote at first most of all poetry , i got a close-up book. these were portraits of the most stupidly interesting poets

far from all. of course, he could not be there, for example, his brodskaya, of course. it was there or couldn’t be, heinrich the subwoofer or i don’t know sergei gandlevsky there, that is, the author who was either in exile or in the underground, but was not recognized by the soviet government in any way, but the rest i had martynov breeze slutskoy evgeny vinokurov yes you never know the wonderful khorgovskie, by the way, yes , they became tarkovskaya, i have a book and opened very elders, that is, his martynov and his tarkov. you are the author of a legendary book eighty-two, arseny of tarkovsky, plump gray. well, in general, it must be said that literary criticism, of course, it seems to me from the 2020s at that time, uh, was very important, that is, they listened to it. it somehow built a literary space. for example,

alamarchenko writes in tarkovsky barcelona that he is in tune with his contemporaries and takes all this on faith, although tarkovsky made his debut in the sixty-second year. first book. he had not quite a debut, but the first book. and he is 5 years old at the moment. debuts together, uh, with voznesensky yevtushenka and company, so the comparison is later than them. mm. even later than them, of course, in the late fifties. voznesensky began to publish and vtushenko was read, the article a successful article stopped the event for me and they said hmm they corresponded, so they listened to the occasion. well, in general, it is, yes it is. yes . indeed, it was so much more appreciated. actually, three things. and, firstly, the so-called courage. that is, to say what the other still, for censorship editorial and other reasons, i did not dare to say for example, for the first time he quoted gumilyov, whom he then loved very much without

naming a name. she said that as one old poet said and then it was so fashionable. i remember the collection of the institute of slavic studies of balkan studies, where in the note two wonderful co-speakers, vyacheslavl ivanov and vladimir nikolaevich toporov, both deceased now, uh, gave a footnote, and there was another footnote to the footnote and there uh was as you say, and as it was said for nonsense for failures for the loss of everything dear and for what could have been otherwise for that you don’t need another georgy ivanov gv ivanov how great they have to remember, almost an emphasis, however, i remember exactly this quatrain, because i saw it then, by the way, and there is one of the main uh, well, such theses of our mine, but today our two podcasts. you know, i would just like to say even at the very beginning. here you are encouraged to

read. but i came into the world. well, somehow he became timid. it is still being mastered in literature, when literature was one of the most important things in the country. i here is the call in this, your today's call would sound strange. yes, it was not necessary to call once and if you don’t like, they went to the stadium to listen to culture, there was literature, there was literature in society. built around this. i even wrote in front of a word in one of my books, literature was also one of the most important things in the country. and how am i now annoyed? how i grieve the fact that this is the old device, our culture is gone. well, you know, it's almost gone. we are trying to prevent this, as if culturally speaking. by the way, i am the author aphorism. eh, or even proverbs are not given to everyone, but to compose a proverb. i composed yevgeny yevtushenko said that the poet of russia is more than

a poet, and i came up with the idea that a poet in russia is no more than a poet. and this describes, unfortunately, the end of an era, er, of the literature of centrism, with which nothing can be done. yes , this is how it is, but i continue to study criticism. here's what else i wanted to say. so courage is valued. well, in the course, if of course, this is understandable. and third, the quality of the writing was highly valued as written credits. matter. yes, that's how he himself wrote, how he constructs the phrase how is your health collecting criticism - is it science or literature? as a matter of fact, yes, that's when this dispute flared up from the very beginning took aside those who think that the nickname is literature, of course i am also for this that criticism is literature of the same kind as dramaturgy, of course, epic lyrics and criticism . the same. this is such a statement based on, uh, books read, and not on the material of the reality of some kind of literature

, science works in solidarity with itself. categories. true false. right wrong true or false, but there is no right criticism, no right opinions. yes , it's just that some become well-known, some leave the shchenko editor of the one we have already mentioned. uh, magazine reading library. he wrote about the first volume of dead souls. it's a dirty, imperfect, terrible piece of work. uh, the birdies are coming to the hotel. there are two russian men standing there, and he laughs at what kind of french women or something, but it's hard to argue, but it's gone, and reality argued it, so criticism is not science, it's definitely scary. well, now let's return again to our conversation with the editor-in-chief of the magazine znamya to literary critics sergei ivanovich chuprinin, so i will always remember your book. if i'm not

mistaken, the eighty-sixth year, i didn't find it on my shelf quickly before leaving here . criticism is criticism. or eighty- eighth, maybe 88, probably, right? this book of yours, and she, for the first time, turned the eye of the researcher even now. yes, not about a bunny for criticism. what heroes were there, how they fought with each other and competed then it was yes and wrote well very different writers it is very important to write well. well, few writers. it is interesting for me to write well. so what else was it interesting for you to read, yes, dreamed about it? yes , indeed, i am firmly convinced that the criticism of this criticism and this book is real. what i just know is that the first one is the only one , and then not so long ago, about five years ago, i moved her with the addition of essays. it consists not even an article. it consists of

essays on figures, cities in general, key figures from mark shcheglov whom you already mentioned to completely new people who appeared here at least publications in the nineties in the early 2000s , here's another thing i found. eh, book. well, of course, it’s not the best, the early wonderful ivanovich is depicted by this library ogonyok of the publishing house, though the ninetieth year is the thirty -seventh number here, i read one paragraph of the book called the situation this book, despite its modest size. here is a paragraph of theirs in quotation marks conservatives are. for example the burial of our open information society seems to upset us. even the current publicity, which is a sin to hide , is far from freedom of speech in one single country, and even more so from the free exchange of information on an international scale. well, you know, your style is recognized, well , as if it were written not even yesterday, but

just today, that is, nothing has changed. take a look at the imprint imprint, what circulation, yes, say. yes, i predict that the circulation is 50 thousand, my god 150.000 150.000. it diverged. here in this book brochure situation was interesting is not always the case. so now it’s not sergei ivanovich. in general , we’ll return to this criticism. and now the very thing that i have prepared for you today. and this poem by boris pasternak is a thunderstorm. instant for a century, pretending not to be cunning analysis, i will say two things. well, firstly, i will still read this poem from a book close to your heart, because this is a respectable poet's library. uh series the second edition of her blue color, this book came out in 65 check myself. yes, it was in the sixty-fifth year, and

most importantly, that its compilers and the author of the article e hmm and andrey of the accrual data is an absolutely classic such publication. and why are you, our dear interlocutors, close to your heart. you know from the second part of our program they want to have accepted so said that he is a child. thaw yes, this says a lot. well, the second thing i pretend. ah, my simple analysis. uh, that's what uh, here hmm everything is complicated and this poem can be said. so it will be merculo's prose the wind of lilacs at that time, he picked up an armful in the field and scattered mitrafil for these, as if you were simple, that is, the sentence flows from one line to another, they can be read in poetic rhythm. and you can read it together and there is one incomprehensible word trafil, well , the german verb prefen trave get rophan - it will be possible to get it and so on. uh, uh, this poem is talking about. as

you, of course, remember a very simple thing, yes, that at night, uh, lightning bolts snatch out familiar uh, pictures that are memorable to us, uh because they see during the day, but at night they look like photographs snatched from the darkness. we recognize a friend who seems unfamiliar to us, this is what we are talking about here. well, uh, thunder and lightning are presented in such a personified form, this is a photographer. if you remember the old days, the photographer, penetrated his large camera, put on, uh, the black cape on his head twitched the trigger, simultaneously pressed uh, another hook twitched the flash. the magnet charged it all. here is a picture here, but the most important thing at the end yes, sergey ivanovich is but the poem is absolutely amazing and not always, e reader fascinated by this beautiful

complexity, and boris pasternak gets to the end with a beautiful obscurity, an instant thunderstorm for a century. and then summer said goodbye to the station, took off his hat, took 100 blinding photographs at night as a keepsake of thunder, froze. at that time, a bunch of lilacs, having picked up a bunch of lightning from the field, they trafiled to light up the management’s house, and when the building covered the forest, a wave of evil kinship spread. and like coal according to the drawing , a downpour struck, all the wattle fence began to blink, a collapse consciousness. it seemed, but the charger. even those corners of the mind, where it is now light as in the daytime, what is happening?