yeah, and in the center of the circle, which is formed by those present, a woman in a bright red coat is dancing and crying, and she also has a clown's nose glued on, and she is crying. and i want to jump. what is possible in such cases? how to put a question, but i asked the real one from the edge, what is it? he says funeral. i'm talking about why in this way he speaks, she expresses her contempt for death. i say, why is my interlocutor talking? oh, he was a jazz musician. this is something close to growth, although heterogeneity is pure view, and foolishness is a look at oneself from the outside. so uh, i uh, in general, quite often

uh, i use it. this is the look of the hero, let's say the hero of the first person narrates and he must always have a sense of humor, just so that it is a stereo look at himself. and chagin has a sense of humor. in chagin himself, chagin has very moderately almost no humour. it seems to me that he has no sense of humor at all, and humor is achieved due to the fact that we see the main character through the eyes of different people. and here's the humorous effect. he arises from the first pages precisely due to this contrast and also a description. there is also a funeral and these funerals, that the fingers of the deceased or the hands of the deceased are propagandists, but by the sea, although a mistake has occurred. yes, he is archival, the employee of the narrator was a former story, only in a real former story. they said his hands smelled like bread. here

it was a frightened peace to us, well, someone said, well, yes, he had to cut bread, probably, they could smell, their left. i really have a funeral. and they say that you smell like ship ropes. eh, here, and chagin whom everyone considered a walking paperclip. uh, there were never any ship ropes in his life. but he had another, he had a phenomenal memory. and so, uh, it was his memory that tormented him from the bast, and he strove to get rid of it. all my heroes act a little like a schlimann and go monotonously , it’s as if you can consider him such a brat in an adventurous life, so changeable, yes, that ’s how a person from one state rushes to another and, in fact, in the scientific world went to him

certainly hers, it seems, they are all so serious with their degrees of merits, and this one really came. so everyone was relieved and laughed at him. yes, but in the end he is all of their guises. uh, embarrass everyone. and i found an absolutely amazing poem for troy, which you quote there, yes , yes, this poem is also very foolish, if you like this poem by viktor schneider viktor schneider yes, and his poem speaks of paradoxes. i 'll read it a little then. yes, with pleasure. yes, they say the forger schlimann. so, until the end of days, and not knowing that all his fake finds given to him as the remains of three, in fact , they often said to his wife, my love is my

support of happiness. and he blushed from this lie or flattery even once. he himself, without suspecting that he was telling the true truth and that his wife was his only support, happiness and love. great, right? yes, because a person, being in his fantasy, he is aware of this . he doesn't understand that fantasy is based on reality. and this is the dialectic this is the ratio of the real and the fantastic, it is not at all simple and the person himself often does not understand that he was telling the true truth, in general, chagin is in many ways an amphe novel

that we ourselves existed for ourselves in some kind of myth and, apparently, a shell myth about myth. i love history somehow. i stopped by dmitry sergeevich likhachev to sign a paper. and i went to one magazine to the editorial office, there was some kind of note and i signed it. he says stay for lunch. i have company, but it was an offer not to be refused. well, i sat 2 hours. here to me sergeyevich, he obviously always told some interesting things. in general, i was late for 2 hours, he says to me, well , why did you come so late? i say, perhaps it will be partly an apology for me that i was asked to stay for dinner with sergeevich likhachev. and they say in unison, and what does he eat? that was it. it was a joke, but it was a joke that followed from the myth that

this man? yes, with a purely spiritual essence for a long time. here are things like lunch. it's not about him. well, by the way, he's also a lot about holy fools wrote. yes, he wrote, it seems, but he didn’t consider it much on purpose, by the way, hmm, interesting materials have been collected, and hmm, her family from sergei ivanov there is also byzantine material. here e. well, my wife tatyana did a lot of work, er, and homelands. and i kept thinking, maybe she didn't see you either, and like him, why did she marry me? yes, or vice versa, she decided to watch. eh, how is it that in any person there is a mouth to any and this is quite

obvious. bottom because sometimes here directly beings are very difficult to deal with, and her kinship is something. i would say the deformation of reality, and in a deformed form it is somehow possible to cope with it, that is, it seems to be them and something very human, human, which makes it easier. our human life is like this okudzhava, and the soul is for sure, if it is burned by the just, it is more merciful and righteous, these are people with burnt souls , people who have no pride, and this is very important, because it happens that even among ascetics. here's some pride when the person begins to think. and who's like me , probably no one else. and the fool, they don’t

think so, because he is always the worst. but this, by the way, is still very interesting in the film lungin island. there, of course, the image of the main character. yes, he bears such obvious traits of her kinship and is also curious. it comes against the backdrop of his own personal tragedy. a little something in common with roman chaga. yes, when a very serious sin lies on a person’s soul, and he tries, he cannot forget it, he remembers, and that’s kinship, how way to overcome this uh situation. everyone has their own, but in any case, there is something in common here, it seems to me. yes, and this is the so -called crisis lives. and this is bakhtin's term. he spoke about a special type of crisis residents, egyptian, for example, and a life, at the beginning of which there is a fall of sin and or some kind of terrible act, after all

, as far as i understand, when we read some kind of life, we perceive it as some kind of example. yes, to take an example, but to take an example from the holy fools would be rather strange. here's to me it seems that it cannot be, that some kind of baton of some school of some tradition to pass on this holy fool to hiru. or i'm wrong, but in fact, holy fools, too, just like ascetics always assume a certain one. uh, so to speak, examples in the same way and motherland a and often. eh, let's even say in the lives it is indicated that he followed, but let's say andrei of tsargradsky did, that one, and that one or there he, following the seed place, to whom uh did, that and that one, well, we are unlikely to meet that follows xenia of petersburg some other woman after the death of her husband has become here. wearing a man's dress and

calling myself andrew yes, a unique story. it seems to me that this seems to be interesting precisely for its absolute and originality. yes, and this cannot be repeated, it is not necessary, it is impossible. it can only be once, and they seemed to be very closely following how it was before them. eh, it was such information channels, how could they? the lives of the herods were different, there were people from very good families. here, and besides, you didn’t have to be literate if, for example, you are in monastery, because they usually read the lives at the meal. it turns out that a person left the monastery and became heroic. no, he was sometimes within the monastery, and, as it seems, they depressed their body, and they wore

two-pound religion, 32 kg. yes, they wore an ass. here are the different materials. i am not an expert. here i will not speak, but life is described. here's the thing, but the stubble this, not the stubble, worn inside was so sharp that it kind of bled constantly. i have e in the lavra. clever story about holy fool thomas here i really like him. he is such a person, uh, not to say that hmm very hmm ceremonial here but he is the vocabulary of the corresponding and the vocabulary of the corresponding uh. there is such a scene. i think i can see her well. and if you shoot it, maybe someday it will work out. here

he is dying. and he decides to free the city at least for a while, pskov from demons, and he walks around the city and everyone knew that thomas was dying and the whole city went out and followed him and thomas threw stones to destroy at least the most impudent demons . at some point he vision failed, and he says, depart the light from my eyes, they put stones in his hands, and he threw these stones at demons. that's the kind of fighter he is. ah, thomas, uh, oh and kind. you arseniy, he was more of a gentle person, and on the one hand, you need someone who throws stones at demons, but on the other, you definitely need someone

who speaks like angels himself, and these are different types of foolishness, and it’s wonderful that they are different wonderful. so this was a podcast. the life of the wonderful and and the writer evgeny vodolazkin was our guest. fellow scientists hello we are today gathered thoughts about what a university is, why is it needed? you know each other very well just in case. i will say that today, in alphabetical order, alexey pavlovich kozyrev egor borisovich prokharchuk, dean of the medica faculty of biology of the remarkable second . well, what to do as time goes by, we do not change. and you know

what i want to start. i have this year's educational lecture. uh, i started my students with history, which happened to me and would really like to tell you about it and listen to your comments say, well, suddenly he called me and says, listen, my daughter is studying, and at the university in one. well, somehow , i studied the first course, but something doesn’t go well. you could meet and talk to her. she might be for you. uh, mmo will be translated girl 45 comes. we said beautifully smart bright and that's it. why do i say you want to leave your university? well, it didn't work out for me. no friends, company, no, nothing no. and everything is around, yes, but i say to us for some reason, but i think it will say learn a language is such a set of standard answers that we are used to hearing. but my friend clouds you and her friends are gorgeous and everything is cool, and they spend time there wonderfully and so on, in short, word formation in 45 minutes of our conversation. the knowledge

to learn never sounded once the university has turned into a stage of socialization today destroyed, why do we need philosophy and everything, yes, and i was asked a question. and where will we go work after the faculty of philosophy. i wanted to answer the world bank to the united nations. but where you go to work depends on what you learn. what task will you set and then, will there be urgency in the frying pan? there is such a concept in philosophy. listen to the frying pan such a concept by affinity happy is the person who has found a related business in life then you will learn then this business will become your hobby and your passion and your sphere. e improvement. here are the questions. they ask the least and uh it seems to me that e is somewhat guided by

the desire to give birth to parents. how to form this motivation to gain knowledge, the school has worked very hard. in a negative sense, that is, from the use system where the senior classes are. eh, children don't learn to learn, they write samples. i used to think that the sampler is the kind of spirits that you have knowledge of. and today i came to school. i gave a lecture to scientists at school. yes, if such a program, yes, the government of moscow, uh, the children wrote a sample yesterday. tomorrow they will write, a sampler and every week. they write to us probes. they are preparing for i not two years. they do not study, they do not comprehend the astronomer, who is not at school at all. yes, now she is, but she is not, let's play separately. maybe we'll talk today. i look at igor boris so suharizny looks at us and does not agree. you are such a romantic lime, but, frankly, i don’t really understand what students want, because i have two children, two

students. if you look more globally, then for me as a scientist and as a citizen. i take the university. this as a kind of, in fact, very difficult and a bridge between the maintenance of tradition and progress, as if for me it is important. you see, this is how, on the one hand, you need to preserve the tradition. on the other hand , definitely move forward. i thought about it a lot. well, since the dean needs to somehow, well, develop on the one hand, but on the other hand, it’s still the university, uh, in which, although not my almator. yes, but nevertheless i am responsible for these children. there i have 1,200 people at the faculty. and i have to think about them, how to support them on the one hand tradition on the other hand to move forward. well, the system develops when there is a certain amount of chaos, yes, an indeterminate amount of chaos. yes, well, not definitely. yes and such a suspension when you shake it up

there, i don't know the stones, they lie down somehow and then you shake it. and just like that, they take some action. if you don't shake it at all, it will be dead weight. this is some kind of shaking of the system and bringing into the system such a normalized strictly proportional chaos, which it did not destroy and it is for me and this is the function of the university, you see, i would think in this aspect a little more global than just, uh, locally, but look, and i, after all, uh hmm why did i give this example with a girl? yes, and why i talk about this with students, because this is an indicator, in my opinion, one of the indicators of what our attitude towards this has turned into higher education today, yes. you see, i agree with alexey pavlovich. if conditionally there once a man came there as an apprentice to master, says, i want to learn how to do like you, yes. now he comes and says, and where will i work. and how much will i

earn, and the problem is not only that the girl katya does not understand. why does she go to the university and her parents do not understand her, and in general, society does not understand, does she need this person with this specialty in time, yes, and therefore, by the way, to say, here is the next question that i also ask my student. and today i am very glad that i can talk to you, because i suddenly realized that i have been asking students every year for many years. but somehow i didn’t ask my colleagues. what is higher education? today? all of us in soviet times, higher education was not total. if we take it, the thirties -forties-fifties , it was not so easy to find a person with a higher education, here is the phrase he has a higher education. yes social social success, yes social promotion and there were high salaries and professors and a person who graduated from the university. in general, he could get a job where he received more than, uh, more than a worker

here, and the nineties. unfortunately, we finished the process of this leveling, which began much earlier and, firstly, all roses became universities, although one must understand that a university. uh, this is not a place where they give applied skills here for folding skills exists. uh, polytechnic institute technical college. yes, here is a university, e - this is an idea of ​​\u200b\u200bthe purpose and meaning of human activity in life. and if this question is not asked by a philosopher, if it is not asked by a physicist, if he does not know a physician, if you do not ask a mathematician, then he is a bad graduate university, he not only must, but know well. e your area of ​​expertise, but also ask the ultimate questions. a. eh, what place? and i have science in the system of sciences in the universe of human knowledge. and the truth. eh, that's

what i'm ready for. e give your life or the truth is situationally accidental fragmentary truth, in general a lot yes, and so here is the university. and this is the pinnacle of higher education, as a place where a person is. e. what is becomes is in a sense, an idealist who is guided by e, higher principles. here was such a russian e, philosopher, writer doctor diplomat konstantin leontievich yes who wrote in one letter science should develop in a spirit of deep contempt for its practical poland hmm today. eh, with this, no one would agree, but generally speaking, let's ask him borischa correctly noted about the university in full. i support this story that the university is about a way of life. it's an ontology

really and respected people who think about universities. they divide them into classical e, such as rivers or research universities, where people, in universities are mainly engaged and absolutely not researchers. they are all universities. that is, after that there are so-called professional schools in the form of some kind of institutes. and now, if the first cohort from the tape university is such an anglo-saxon, in general, protestant model, then research schools are more of a russian-german such a story, and finally, maybe the third part, which is also distinguished by colleagues - these are the so-called clan places. if you don’t study in ita, i can confuse everything with saton there. well, let's say all er, british prime ministers graduate from a particular school. or is there, if you study in cambridge, then you need to or in a certain french school, then you will be the president of france or already yes? so this is absolutely clan things. they are not related to

education. moreover, this plan seems to reproduce itself. he was created in order to reproduce himself, and he, well , roughly speaking, if you want, i have already fucked up a little, then if you want to work in the form, then it is most logical, but not in polish. it looks like i can say that definitely in the soviet union it seems that the second part was brought to perfection. vocational schools, but this did not save the system, that is, the tradition could not itself, despite the fact that it was a challenge to the whole world. this is a new way of looking at the world. this new ontology was built perpendicular to everything that was before, nevertheless , professionals of a high hand lacked something about what the previous speaker was actually talking about in order to save this system from collapse. that is, they were superprofessionals, for example, in physics or superprofessionals in mathematics. or even in diplomacy or in the economy, probably yes. well,

they missed something important, which destroyed the whole system, what? well, the lack of that raisin that should be at the university is the vision of the world, the feeling of the world, and this feeling. it must be interrupted by some system. again we are talking about the ratio of progress and tradition that should exist. i thought, well, uh, this is my faculty of philosophy. yes, he has a great history, but we are now talking about the period after the war, because okay, then it was, then was not, and in general exists due to the fact that it opened one more time than it closed. maybe one of the most er, fruitful periods of living periods. these were the fifties and sixties, when, uh , a whole dream and honey and uh, enkov and vardashvili beautiful names will appear. but it was a time of very tough ideological oppression.

it was a time of cultivation, what kind of dogmatic marxism, that is, development. but it is precisely through resistance and through the creation of a community. that is, when yes some kind of official ideology was such an iron curtain, yes, but there was a desire for grass to grow through the asphalt. uh-huh. and so it germinated very well, because there was tension in this life. whenever we give everything, when we say, here it is, please improve, move forward. no, life needs a struggle. i remind you that this is a podcast collected thoughts. today we are talking about why a university is needed, and with alexei pavlovich kozyrev and yegor borisovich prokorchuk. i'm vladimir yes , now what is the struggle with, well, with some kind of mass dullness, deepening, erasing the boundaries between knowledge, or there professional

knowledge, expert and amateurish. yes, we go to the doctors. and when they tell us how they will teach us, i say, i don’t need to. here is what i read on the internet. let's just say that these are also very revealing things that were once impossible. and so, therefore, three things seem to me fundamentally. the first is higher education. yes, this knowledge is quite, certain professional experts you like, the second one is such a wonderful phrase to her various american professionals. at the first lecture, an american professor is somehow credited with telling his students everything that you will be taught here, you will forget, but on the other hand, you can always determine whether they hang noodles on your ears or not, and i’ll tell students separately, there are indirect signs of pseudoscience , which you look at, if you may not understand anything in the specialty on which you took the book, but now, if you see this, you should ring a bell. yes if you are human with education, they also heard the third point, what alexey pavlovich said, yes, and he says that, as i understand it, he supports it. it seems to me that if you are a techie, then you should not only

know that there is such a dante or was such, but you should have experience reading the divine comedy. and if you are a humanist and i'm afraid of this word, then you still have to understand what einstein did, how the general theory of relativity differs from the special one. well, at least at the level of somehow moistening it to explain to someone and that's it which today is almost non-existent in the whole world, as it seems to me, well, the philosophical education of us has been preserved, and physics and mathematics. and biology and logic, which is still close to mathematics. so our students are just getting signs. but we are not now. yes, when communicating with this world culture in the broadest sense of the word at some fundamentally different level above the school level. yes, i'm talking to students again, often. if you see in a book something like a phrase or thought that it is generally accepted that in fact everything much more complicated, most likely, it was written by a scientist. yes, because it is simply clear only where in general, science does not smell or not.

well, the very fact of the scientific method of cognition is close to me, and, uh, it is obvious that the six years that the specialist is teaching now count to a large extent. eh, some areas of science can change so much that when they acted there was one type of knowledge and one-knowledge, but the output will be different and in an obvious way. what since i finish the properties. it's been there for 30 years. and of course, everything has changed, but first. well, you must be taught to learn. this is first of all, and if i was taught to learn how to go to the library to look , nothing has changed due to the appearance of the internet, but the principle of extracting knowledge and exfoliating, uh, the husk. pardon my tautology. yes, attention, where the real is where the not real and this is very important. yes, and this comes with experience, just in the process

of learning the second point that i would like to note, nevertheless, well, just professionalism and the idea of ​​the function of the university are not enough for me. this is in contrast to professional engineering schools or clan places are grown by these prime ministers. uh, to give some understanding of life, naturally, within the framework of that, well, the framework in which uh exists , this is an institution, yes, so i think it's a very important point to note that professionalism is a necessary condition, but not necessarily, when we have electric power industry , people manage without knowing the familiar - ohm's law is just a disaster, but if they are a super professional, but do not carry a certain charge , this is also not enough for reproduction systems, if we think about some kind of stable development. eh, it's on e. well, this is what it's about here, because when, for example, my students ask some economists, you are

there all the time dostoevsky dostoevsky why do we need to read? that's why i suddenly caught everything, at some point, i answer once again that i'm trying to tell them how they are an economist. there , fyodor mikhailovich and the karamazov brothers will come in handy in their economic activities, because this is not necessary. now i i say that they are talking about emotional creative intelligence, about the fact that it's competitive, but it's true, right? here, for example, is yulia borisovich khariton, the creator of the soviet atomic project. i was shocked when we arrived in sarov for the first time and, uh , his house-museum, and in the bedroom on the bedside table. i don't remember the volume of poetry. now kogo nu poems and in his diary i read when the young khariton is a physicist a physicist. yes, he got to read mayakovsky's poems. in his youth, he wrote in his diary a whole sea of ​​new poetry opened up in front of me. it was one of the biggest shocks in my life. we are now talking about this dostoevsky should

be read, because one of the questions of the brothers karamazov, who killed his father. we do this all the time, but not in the literal sense, but metaphysically. eh, we have every generation. e, denies the previous son is not responsible for his father. why do professional smart people destroy? eh, what was created before them. yes , because it occurs. this is a field of hatred for their fathers, there is no rooting in the fact that we must respect what the previous generation did, that we are dwarfs on the shoulders of the giants and unfortunately, this is how our life was arranged, what have we had since a certain time? well, almost every generation began to deny it. eh, the achievement of e his fathers in science has turned into rudeness, when e a young scientist believes that it is not necessary to refer to his teachers, well, you need to quote western sources. if

you want to get into a bevel, there is offscience, we used to have this fetish and, uh, if we look at how it works, our science is this respectful attitude to those who are nearby, who worked at your university in your department respectful attitude to the archive to the legacy to the memorial library. so, nightmare, here i am now brought to the faculty one after another. uh, the libraries of the dead scientists. well , the family doesn't need them. this is something that needs to be done about it. we need to somehow come up with a way to integrate it there in the collection. well, as soon as we return to the constitution to tradition yes, we can, it seems to me to acquire this decency, because it seems to me what grigory borisovich spoke about to people. just decency was not enough in my eyes.

e, the late academician skryabin konstantingorovich, who we are a teacher, he brought the library of academician baev from his teacher, and he said, well, as if it is not conceivable for me, that no one needs these books. they wanted to waste something there somewhere, and he took them out. and they are now our institute, which is named after. this library has been preserved and for me it was an example of what it certainly speaks about. our country is rather archaic, but to me, for example, i like it as i say it now in a good way. well, in short, i mean, it's comfortable for me. i don't like competition. i don't like running all the time. i don't like the son to push themselves. i understand that well life, of course, i understand that uh 20:00 pm. this is the best for the audience, the best for a very magazine, but the citation period during the citation period is 2-3 years, then it goes down, as it were, but i will not hang with me. and if there is no happiness, then , as it were, there are a lot of such people. yes, by

and large, people want, well, normal of life, of course, creativity is a movement forward, but this is it, constant hmm, participation in progress is quite intense, not every person. can imagine to feel there now, most people do not feel happy there, so they want to live their own, well, enough traditional life. but if they live a traditional life, then well, they can become less competitive there, that means by and large. you must select one. a layer of a small number of people who will participate in this race and these people will generate, progress because , first of all, any means of protection are there, from military to intellectual cultural , including and then the question arises. at some point, this layer begins to work against those people who have been singled out and supported, because these people. well, in general, few of them are supported by those people who

can, and the second one needs to be somehow caught and not trusted. this is most of the people. yes, deep people. she delegates to these people certain powers. no more in addition, it contains them, you understand, it cleans. pardon me their toilets. she feeds easily. she them, well, as if all this is part of the great work of bread there. forgive me table-makers. the oilman heals, we delegate authority, and you guys write songs for this. uh, making movies, writing books. uh, she thinks. yes , that's all this word is safe, protecting our certain way of life. and by and large the first, as you said.