some kind of terrible act is always the same, as far as i understand, when we read some kind of life, we perceive it as some kind of example. yes, to take an example, but to take an example from the hardcore would be rather strange. it seems to me that it cannot be, that some kind of relay race of some school of some tradition to pass on this holy fool hero. or i'm wrong, but in fact, holy fools, too, just like ascetics always assume a certain one. eh, so to speak, examples in the same way gave birth to her. eh, and often. eh, let's say even in lives it is indicated that he was following, but let's say to andrey the king did, that , and that and or there he, following the seed place, to whom, uh, did, that and that, well, we are unlikely to meet what follows xenia petersburg some other woman after the death of her husband became here. sit a man's

dress and call yourself andrey yes, a unique story . yes, and this cannot be repeated, it is not necessary, it is impossible. it may only be once, and it seems to have been followed very closely. the way it was before them. eh, it was such information channels, how could they? the lives of the herods were different, there were people from very good families. here, and besides, you didn’t have to be literate if, for example , you are in a monastery, because you usually read the lives at the meal. it turns out that a person left the monastery and became heroic. no, he was sometimes within the monastery, moreover, as if they

were depressing their body, and they wore two pounds, religion 2 kg. yes, they wore sackcloths. here are from different materials. i am not an expert. here i will not speak, but life is described. that's what and here's the bristles, it's they bristles inside the violence was so sharp that it seemed to constantly bleed from me e during. the full story about the holy fool thomas, here i really like it. he is such a person, uh, not to say that hmm very hmm ceremonial that's it but he is vocabulary appropriate vocabulary appropriate uh. there is such a scene. i think i can see her well. and if you shoot it, maybe someday it will work out.

here he is dying. and he decides to release the city at least for a while, pskov from demons, and he was walking around the city and everyone knew that thomas was dying and the whole city went out and followed him and thomas threw stones, to destroy at least the most impudent demons. at some point , his eyesight failed, and he says, depart the light from my eyes, they put stones in his hands, and he threw these stones at demons. here he is such a fighter a-a foma a oh and kind. you are arseniy, he was more of a gentle person, and on the one hand, you need someone who throws stones at demons, but on the other, you definitely need someone who

who speaks like angels himself, and these are different types of foolishness, and it's wonderful that they are different wonderful. so this was a podcast. the life of the wonderful and and the writer evgeny vodolazkin was our guest. hello this podcast triggers and with you. we are tatyana krasnovskaya, a psychologist , a psychotherapist and hello victoria. hello victoria. tell us why you came to us today. an existential transition according to my feelings, it is no longer a crisis at the transition a year ago, i faced the issue of death with the theme and me into my trauma

dipped the loss of mom, and for this year. i realized that all these 10 years, while i was gone. well , i froze and died with her. tell a little of your story. well, i have a complete family, my mother is an economist, my father is a military pilot. well, the usual, probably, soviet childhood. well , a little with a cold mother, who forbade her creativity to show there, don’t paint on rubbish, i don’t know, don’t dance, stomp, but hmm, a child in the family. yes. i am alone. and dad is on flights and of course, dad flew in, dad is beloved, and grandmother came across someone you love more mom or grandmother. here they gave me at 12 years old.

my mother got into an accident and the actual childhood ended, because how did they marry me without me, i had to take care of walking again, there was a serious injury. well, yes, yes, there she was in a coma and paralyzed. and in general, dad then also began to drink quietly. so i have two children appeared suddenly now to my mother. yes, that's how it happened, you had to ah-and fully serve mom. mom didn't go, yes, mixed up with me. household quiet man here, well, cooking cleaning, naturally, there is a duck, all the affairs of some kind of

social life there. so here it is. well, she recovered, sort of quickly. to be honest, i don’t remember, well, a year or two, i somehow recovered, then some period. well , everything lived as usual, and i had a stroke. all over again. that is, it turns out, we have always encountered growing up. i'm with an injury. well, then death, then illness. somehow, i later discovered that my internally yes, growing up is equal. well, the exit to the society is there in communication, and i immediately with the fear of death all the time faced illness. how did it show up for you? how did this link work? well, because the last five or six years there, i kept looking for myself there and well, that's enough. nothing

works out for me. why i don’t have the strength, but i ’m so cool charged, he knows, i can do it , and well, it doesn’t work out. and this is a bunch i have developed that as soon as i go somewhere i face the fear of death. and i don't need anything. in general, it's as if it becomes dangerous for you to go outside because of this. yes, because. well, who am i to study again? that's some kind of thresh. everything is bad. everything is terrible. and then what should be done if well , to remain in a childish position, when i got married 10 years ago in the twelfth year , i did everything as much as possible in order to push the responsibility onto my husband. bringing it all. hmm, you have to be married, there, i'm

feminine there, lay down my paws, like that, well , i realized that you are a utopian story. so, well , i did it. well, there my husband earns money and keeps everything, and i was looking for myself, that 's all these 10 years. well, i mean, uh, got eyelash extensions. yeah, and there until the sixteenth year. i earned a decent amount of money teaching, and then it burned out, we moved to another city in the crimea, and ended up for a couple of years. i exhaled there , we got over, when and in moscow, it all started. well, firstly, moscow means. come on come on and here i am, come on, i was looking for courses there at a training for personal growth, where i am who i am, that i was a landscape designer and in i don’t know a florist and macrame, weaving and that’s it. this sms occupations, well pieces 10

tried himself uh-huh different directions. and finally three years ago. i went to study after all, on the psychologist, bodily, we orient the therapist and actually. it began to slowly come to life and now you have practice. well, i practice. yes, well, not so that it’s a straight line . for now, i would like that it was very much this existential crisis of yours, as they put it? and what is he? you understand that if you pass it, then this line will appear or you need to pass it in order to be a more, uh, effective therapist. what is the essence of this crisis therapist does not want clients to go. and this is my inner state. well i imagine that somehow i will live there

, i don't know the mourning process. well, i already think i have already lived, because there is love for love for a mother. yes, there i got to i don’t know the year of gift in just all these 10 years of the process. that's it. now it's like well, already where we something we would like to go to move. well, no, to be so direct, well, the feeling of energy here is the impulse of such a charged one, that is, you are in this fading what it was , as if i continue, or something, either out of habit, or, well, the psyche. you need to go through some more processes, i don’t know, but you have children my daughter is 8 years old, and i’m still oh, i had some processes going on there somewhere in august, before me the chains all formed, what am i mourning there? i didn’t go through the process, and since august, everything’s been right there, somehow i

’ve been there and in lyoshka and i felt bad, and there i suffered and suffered and suffered everything, then i said, thanksgiving came. well, in general, since september, i also went to get a divorce, all the stories overlapped , and this is a conscious choice, because for the last four years i was also going to do all this and then i realized that, well, it’s like, well. like a gestalt closed out by a man with this and with my story with my mother there, and now i closed everything else to do, i don’t know what kind of mother his mother is, well, thanks to psychotherapy, how i try to be loving supportive, like mine. oddly enough, i feel like a good

mom. it's great if you feel that way, cool, because there are my mother's girlfriends, who, of course, don't feel that way, and now you are living together a divorce. it's not traumatic for you not for your husband for your daughter. well, some kind of follow-up, as if logical, i won’t say that we are having fun divorce there. what does this mean? well this divorce then it means that you are like breaking the shell and crawling out of the egg. it looks like yes, what well, i, as if i’m starting to choose to survive to live my own

life , no matter how i have such a metaphor that it’s like i was sitting in a net for 10 years under a tombstone, nailed. yes, it is very similar, i have an assumption, but i will voice it a little later. and tell me, here you are pecking through this shell in the hope of getting out of there. how do you think, how do you feel? are you ready for this life at the moment already feel that strength appears, because there thoughts finally appeared. so you need to think of something in order to leave, because, well, a man. why keep him there? can your personal life go? and yes, how should i move on. and what is needed in order to look like you are now making your way through this tombstone, what is needed in order to be there and stay at the top? well right now i'm financially unstable. well, i also understand.

why yes, but i was maximally childish there all this time, and therefore she ran faster than hell. yes, and there i fought with my ego, because i promised myself that i would never go for hire. here and well, hiring, of course, nothing overlaps here. and well , something is working. it is necessary to act somewhere , our viewers will not be very clear about your expression. i found in a child's position. i understand you uh-huh well, if we talk like two psychologists, it will be of no interest to everyone else, therefore, yes and that, i really don't like to talk like a psychologist. let's try to talk like people in the most childish position. in general, a position. she just for you it's infantilism. what did he express? i do not provide for myself, because the child has the right to do this for a long

time, which you have the right, for example, not to earn. well, here’s my inner desire there , in the name of my mother, to get sick somehow, feel just as bad to die, in fact , i also got into an accident at about the same age, in which he is now no , she got into her earlier at 31. i'm 30. uh, i was very worried. by the way, when i was 31, i think now something will happen to me, but no normal. that is, the connection with my mother was still quite strong, of course. this is such an analogy to the ladies of the state. you were 12, when mom this happened, mom stayed real estate, dad took you to drink, respectively

, were left alone in all this. as you say , it ended since childhood. and here is the very moment when the family, as a structure that should provide support, died and stopped providing support, and in fact, of course, we can say that at the age of 12 we were not ready for this, as, probably, no one was deeply i am convinced that a girl at the age of 12 already ready. your facial expressions, antics pose tell me that a teenager is sitting in front of me. well , perhaps i will agree, because, well, the weak is not seven, not 10 is good, really. in general , you can already do a lot of things there at 12, right? ugh, let's go back there.

and now try to imagine remembering it is unlikely to succeed, but try to imagine the day when you find out that your mother had an accident, what happened an hour before well, conditionally, yes, an hour before and what ceased to exist after you are 12 and your life is something filled. it can be a game, yes, with peers of study, some kind of joy and hopes. and suddenly you will know, remember this. remembers, and how did you know about it? it was the first of april at night? some shorts will be provided. he went to the hospital there. and the next day my grandmother, my mother's mother, arrives. all this is dragging me to this

hospital, still poking me. look, i feel like a mother. why does she do this? well, you can't have fun there. you can't look now, what the mother has been brought to or what? there after a couple of days there. yes? naturally, i am a student having fun change, and she saw. what are you doing? you have a sick mother, you are having fun here.

something has somehow changed there must be some. and what are you really like, what did you experience then? that is, they explained to you how to behave, too , there was some kind of fading, that now you can’t live in your life. and what did it cause? what feelings? well, fear fright sad, you took on this guilt that your grandmother gave you. well, just for this case, no no i mean, were you guilty because you understand the heights of the sun in this situation? no exactly. it was your grandmother who faced the question. you love someone more and suddenly a situation occurs, after which you and your dad are healthy on the same side. uh-huh and the sick, not bedridden mother bedridden mother on the other side. uh-huh how has the configuration of your relationships in the family changed. he also

began to move away, because he himself did not know how to live his emotions there. of course, he dragged me somewhere to work a little something. well, for some reason, i then decided that dad would betray me too. and in general i have no one to turn to you at all then what's with you i'll make a guess you'll say it looks like something you experienced or not. and it seems to me that there was a lot of anger suppressed once something is so unfair. so i should not be a child, like all other children. why is this all happening to me? why should i not asking me. you put me in a position where i should perform the functions that exist, with which i can not cope. oh, well, then, from the age of 12, i began to lose my teeth

, losing my front teeth like no, it’s not that they just began to remove them from me. well, me there well, at the moment there are only 13 for a girl of 12, of course. territory, and you were angry with your mother before that, you can’t and didn’t get angry , these are different things. well, it seemed to me that they didn’t love like that, they should love me like that. you remember the thoughts that came in it. i could only stick my army one showed for a week, google did nothing to put it. it is natural to yell at me like hello

to ignore me to be silent with me. do you remember your thoughts in childhood such as, for example, that it would be better for me and dad without mom. well you couldn't help joining in competition so that with you there is no obvious that your dad betrayed at the moment when you were left in the arms of your mom. dad started drinking, it's really a betrayal. well, it’s just that you couldn’t help but compete with your mother in your youth, just like any girl competes with her mother for her father’s attention for her youth, beauty, and this could not have happened. it just goes differently for everyone. how is your daughter? i haven’t been there with him for years, sometimes i lay hugging - 10 everything has already stopped. it started at

12:00 in general, it seemed to me that in general. deleted from life and dad, too, of course, but this here is the period between my mother's accident and my mother's stroke. and when mom came to her senses how did she manifest herself in relation to you? was she grateful to you, for example, for the care that i provided and somehow the attitude in actions somehow changed. well , i don’t remember that it was also expressed directly, then i appeared on the peak. this is the network business. she's like goofy here and there without end. well , you need to earn money and well, as if it is not there either. i myself, too, somehow hunting was, yes loneliness came precisely at that moment

, at 12:00, when you became adults, you were ready for this adult life. not all of them were doing their own thing. in general, you were left to your own devices, right? i have a feeling that this is what you started to re-experience when you got married and said that this is such a childish position, that now, finally, i can be a child, and next to a man , so, yes, that’s why i covered it all, yes, with vedic knowledge skirts to the floor even so. yes. thank you. uh-huh yes, yes, and accordingly, flying fluttering. and now you have been such a woman. well, and most importantly, to visit the child for 10 years. you haven't grown up yet. growing up starts only now everything has worsened, because i allowed it there, i don’t know already. not that rudeness, but some can already be started. naturally

, all this happened to you. i also wanted to be a child and played in a relationship with my husband, where such a pseudo-eternal woman was shown to the fullest. this is for kostrigery and with you we are sergey nasebyan and tatyana krasnovskaya, psychologists and psychotherapists, and we we are talking with victoria when we died to him in the twelfth year, how did you survive? i became a stone. why it seems that you were already old enough and your mother was obviously ill for a long time, but the fate of centenarians did not shine. at the same time , why were there illusions about my theme should live forever, and what was not expressed?

i don’t know hatred and anger and resentment everything, anything, the period when she died, i went to the training and made a decision i stop everything, i can't ride. it was sunday. thursday. i kept it and here's another guilt for it was. yes? i just told you about this a few minutes ago. look, it turns out that as soon as i break off my contact with my mother. mom dies and a key form of separation from mom. this is her death and a normal person. it's not like it didn't make you

feel guilty. and you have it superimposed on some kind of superstition. and this superstition was not formed in the training. unfortunately imposes everything when people start talking about the universe holotropic breathing, when people come out of there with the idea that there is a certain universe that there are some signs , streams, resources, vedic aspects are superimposed on superstition, where superstition is formed from . superstition is another matter. have you been superstitious before? why did it happen this way. now look, that's why i assumed that the feeling of guilt was formed at the moment when you were just looking at your mother. when she's in a hospital bed and a child might develop guilt at that moment, well, of course, grandma helps a lot.

she directly fonit it, yes speaking speaking speaking about it. yes, it’s just that i, too , just like you in childhood, were accused of bringing mom here or bringing dad there. so you see what you brought everyone to, but i was like a goose, yes it was, but at the same time none of us is able to avoid the thought of when mom beats you, when mom swears, when mom screams about that we would be better off without you these thoughts that the child is frightened, and suddenly the child sees his mother. he knows his thoughts and grandmother in this the moment connects them. look what you brought your mother to, and here a certain subpersonality arises, which says that you are to blame for what is happening. and now you just need to stop being yourself, stop laughing. well, as in childhood, you know, we used to say, don’t swear, mom will die with mom. and that's why everyone believed that it was impossible to swear by mother and swore to lenin there with a

pioneer tie, anything, but something already dead. yeah, but you can’t live, because they each die, and they die. imagine people are dying. let mothers, fathers, children die dogs, cats, everyone absolutely dies. and if you are talking about the existential crisis with which you came, then at the very beginning of your monologue. i noticed one very interesting thing that i said later and i will tell you now. you are afraid to grow up because growing up will lead you to death. and you said that by expressing this phrase to a dying psychologist, no one will go. i wanted to be indignant at this moment and tell you one simple thing. do you really believe that there is a non-dying psychologist? are you real believe that there is at least someone who does not die, the only reality that exists is this death your death my death. i have been dying with you for several minutes now and no one has yet

gone in the opposite direction on the suev. she makes you a helpless mother - it's just her death and her nature. and here it is important that you kind of understand for yourself and recognize or forgive this child for the thoughts that he had at the moments when his mother beats him. well, because if mom is not just cold, when mom begins to express emotions and beats you because at this moment you feel that she hates you, a loving mother will not beat you. and in response to you, of course, there was a huge amount of hmm anger, aggression against her. well , of course, it was impossible to show it. and you received this signal that these are taboo feelings, and you learned to swallow them, erasing your teeth at the root of this thought. is that what you were playing at school when grandma saw you? now it means something is wrong with you

lying behind the door on which death is written. you will open the door, you will understand that you go out into this world you will die and no estimates. i do not know the exalted teenager of this trend. yes, i'm already a forty-year-old aunt. soon i do not know how your relationship with your spouse will develop. i do not know how your relationship with other men will develop. yes, but i know for sure that your relationship with yourself will be more honest only after you accept this fact. and the fact that, yes, you were mad at her. it's not a fact that these are completely unrelated things her accident, and your anger sits on a palm tree from a palm tree falls coconut for

ours. well, let's just say a linear view , it seems that these are related events, but exactly the same way as a crow could not sit down coconut could fall landing. yes, here it happens just like that in our psyche. she tries to build everything in linearity, because only when it is clear, yes, that one follows the other and it seems that as a result she writes. and then, when you start to consider it is very difficult. stratify to separate these events, but your task is to allow this to be a kaleidoscope of events. yes, things have happened in your life. you built logic where it shouldn't have been built, and you built logic, of course, not in your favor. thank you all, of course, a good

teacher, you understand? it's not a shame , they could no longer act differently, in a different way , the child, on whom they fell. that's all you need to build some kind of protection. well , it just doesn't help you now, that's why i'm here and opening this door, which sergei called the name death. you and your daughter will be able to build a real , more honest, or something, relationship, without trying protect her on the one hand with this fading, after all, she is also a cross-country ability, being a real living mother nearby. and this fear that we feel awe of death. it is the natural norm. you can't run from him. you need to learn how to live it, so here it is very important to live it, perhaps in some of the practices in bodily practice. it's great to live, but it's important that you learn

to look there and understand that once you become an adult, everything from now on. well, how would you stop, and grow up and start grow old. yes, there, it means that we are going to this very death; moreover, when mom leaves , of course, there is no one else between us and death, because parents, including psychological ones, perform the function of protection between me and death, while they are, i like like he shouldn't die yet. well, not next. but that's again in the linear category of categoricalness, when we understand what doesn't really exist. the story is about the fact that every decision you make is to turn away from what comes from the fact that we are going to death anyway. she's not stops this movement.