and informative, but you understood a very important topic, now very many. unfortunately, the argument is straightforward. yes, i read about something good, i became better, i read about something bad, it became worse, no, but i’m ashamed to get it, and literature is changing a person, including through complexity and through evil. eh, i read it sometime. e poorly made like that, eh. uh, god has a hated christmas story. on the contrary, you can become a skeptic and lose faith in the whole world, but after reading a heavy e-tragic book. you can on actually become lighter, because it is deeper and you can’t speak straight. not everyone understands this either. uh, my favorite example is a soviet cartoon from the soviet era, where the teacher explains how to be modest, you have to do it this way, and then there is a modest one among you. they say, that is, you can’t pronounce i’m modest, i should be in

this business and so, therefore, your young prose attracted me, but then you weren’t alone, but we were a memoir genre, because i didn’t accidentally say about the heat of debutantism. always want to move on worst of all stop and talk. so i was like this and lead to some kind of series, yes, each new book, like the first uh-huh this is great. here's a little bit. recall those e writers that you were fond of, who fascinated you, you will probably mention budor or lemonade, and the figure is difficult to dispute, but the writers book this book from different conversations with very different people. uh, in life they might just not be on friendly terms at all. although all of them are connected in one way or another by a common past and e at about the same time. they came to the letter. turu and still walked along the same paths

, not only lemons, it's not only limonov and not only yuri vitalyevich mamleev, but this is valentina yuryevich rasputin and evgeny alexandrovich yevtushenko and fazil vylovich. skander. you are andrei georgievich bitov and many many others, uh, and for me, of course, it is precious that i managed to communicate with these people and look at them in my own way. but if we talk about the same eduard telmonov, but at one time it was known that i gave him all the money from the debut award for a lawyer. in general hmm we were not lucky to communicate with him. and for me it is, of course, uh, a very bright free, and above all an artist. for me, too, this is actually in a sense, the heir to the razumovsky line in literature, because

it is impossible to reduce it to something square and russian, the difference is that rozanov was doing this zana mysmatics in a cab, but you are less than me -taki was a practitioner , too, lived life. yes live and broadcast it in his prose. hmm , i must say that i am preparing a new edition for the release famous unknown book of eduarmonov. uh, before the death of roses or poetry he wrote a collection of poems. these are the verses of a dying man, in general , the bitterness of defeat is the strongest of all , and in a sense, he even exploited this technique. e, when from the personal sphere betrayal betrayal of the departed wife who sold her comrades, and it turned into excellent literature. after all, uh, such a constant diary is a loser, and he could achieve a

lot of semi-official social benefits, but unlike many who, he imagines himself to be followers of continuations. as i said i do, but someone does not test this. he was absolutely not conjuncture, and he is devoid of conformism. yeah, and a complex figure. it is terrible for our literature. so the book is excellent, because he is a wonderful poet, and i hope that this book is unknown from limonov's last poems, completely collected by him precisely as a collection. and it will be out soon. well, let's wait for the book, and now, according to tradition , in the middle of our program, we will turn to the poems of another, therefore, books. so we continue our conversation in the next release of a literary podcast. dmitry tank. let them not speak. let the wonderful guest sergei shagunov read. you remember, of course, our dear viewers, that i really

like to show you books from my library. this time i brought you a beautiful book. this is the legendary known to all. uh, a collection of nikolai alekseevich zabolotsky called stolbtsy is a debut, by the way, a debut collection is zabolotsky, which later, but became completely different after e his arrest after his ordeals after repressions, and this is a publishing house writers in leningrad 1929 a pearly beautiful book in which zabolotsky, as it were, tries to cubist, or something, to somehow dismember a single picture of the world and show, but the holiday that arises right in the midst of everyday life is like not kopirosmonashvili. he 's probably a pyrosman, that's how i will read a poem about football, not only because i once seriously played football, but because i think this poem is wonderful. see how the game there grows to the scale of some

universal events. and how is it all here great football nikolai zabolotsky rejoices forward on the run, now what does he care, as if the bones protect his open body, like a cloak his soul flies, his collarbone knocks loudly, and the interception of his cloak dances. in the ear, the membrane dances in the throat, the grapes and the ball flies over the row. they grab him, at random his orders are poisoned, but iron poison heels are worse than you are so glad becky's defenders fell into a heap. the defenders dumped becky's tape, swollen from the draft, and now, through the seas and rivers, the expanses of the square of snow, straightening the lush armor and rooted in the meridian, the ball flies off, rejoices forward to the fire, having blown off his iron knee, but

fantan is already beating from his throat. he falls screaming, the betrayal of the ball spins between the walls, whether it's a ball, or whether it's the globe smoking, puffing up laughing, squeezing the eye. good night. the peephole will open good afternoon and the striker wants to torture four goals. pali in a row above them pipes do not rattle. he counted them and wiped them with a rag , the melancholy goal, the kipper and shouted. night comes at night strumming a diamond damper. she leaves a black key. e to atmospheric the hospital opened in the hole, alas. here forward sleeps without a head. above it are two, copper spears , a stubborn ball with a rope knitted from the afterlife slab. water flows into the holes cut out and dries in the throat. grape. sleep form forward backwards, sleep poor forward above the ground. the dawn

has fallen deep, the girls are dancing at dawn by the blue stream. everything also withers to rest in a purple house, the wallpaper is getting old. mom every day sleep poor forward we live very important that this poem was subsequently rewritten and edited. but this is an early version. a beautiful poem by nikolai zabolotsky was taken by you. yes, yes, when he was close, kharms of kvedensky, as a group, on the one hand, it’s hallucinatory, and on the other hand, a very realistic poem, i must tell the audience that dmitry petrovich and i, we would be football players and we had a chance , uh, penalty to pass the ball to each other on tolstoy's yasnaya polyana expanse, when there were five or six fat ones in the clearing. yes, it was a great job. well, let's talk. uh

, now about, uh, one of your main books is this book. here i have it in my hands. this is one of her edition. this is a book called kataev the pursuit of eternal spring by valentina petrovich kataev. how easy is it to guess the titles? what is the mystical connection with the hero? after all, an author can't just write someone's biography, maybe because he's uh hmm connected to youth magazine like you or not only this connection continues. yeah, because i became the editor-in-chief of youth after writing this book. maybe this, as it were , was the reason that you came to youth magazine. well, i dreamed i shook hands, and then they called me from there and said, listen, come. by that time you had already written a book, right? that is, it was such a gratitude, i take it that way, well , it’s wonderful to say that for me this is a wonderful, excellent stylist. uh, just a wonderful writer, and in literature , fiction is the most important thing for me, and

i just enjoy reading kataev a, apart from everything else. i wanted to unravel, or at least try to somehow comprehend his action-packed life. uh huh red and white it almost shot in the basement of the odessa cheka on the other hand hanging by birth. this is a whole story for the development of literature. he gave way constantly to the young without him there would not have been many names in literature, as all this was, and i want to say that this book continues, because more and more amazing documents emerge. i think that there will be a fourth edition, because they opened up. for example, the protocols of interrogations and it turned out that at the same time when he was sitting, that's where i am waiting for the execution , his friend eduard bagritsky poet was arrested, to whom kataev then, in general, gave a ticket to literature, that is, he dragged him to moscow and began to drive him through magazines and made him

a famous poet. well, in general, there are a lot of important and interesting things that are not here, yes, circumstances, and in this book, too, i felt like a hmm little thing. uh, just investigating, and there's a lot here. uh, unique letters. eh, and many others. e, there is evgeny petrov e, brother of valentin kataev, this theme continues, skating, an excellent writer and for me this is the main thing, but he is also a person. e, who gave life, by the way to the generation of young twenty-year-olds who then or in youth and here i want to trust his daughter evgenia, that same zhenya from the seven-flowered flower, who says that dad would be pleased with the life of today's youth , it was already kataeva in life later, but still i wanted to would return. that's what is commonly called the odessa school,

because after all, odessa, uh, the tenth twenties. ah, the levantines. this is such a school, but we remember shklovsky wrote an article about this viktor borisovich flat wrote about it, but this is wrestling, of course, this is kataev this or petrov is semyon lipkin, for example, the youngest of the eleventh year. yes, he did not communicate with this company. uh, with petrovich street, then. well, they gave the cafe highly, appreciated it, aesthetics, seeds, israel's absolutely brilliant poet, and not only that there is one, and on lesnoy to say, but also on lvovna lesnitskaya, if that's the price well, just olesha and yuri karlovich alyosha of course yes, it should also be named here as, well, i must say that for me kataev is. eh, such an original successor to the bunin line, and he is perceived by me as a student of bunin and i would

here, in fact , kataev and nabokov named nabokov's name for me, in fact, such rivals are the disciples of ivan alekseevich unexpectedly, because bunin was also in odessa, we know that he had an odessa period. you are connected with this cursed days, then you gave an impetus to the literary and in the same way the young nabokov uh, he studied with him, wrote letters to him , sent his first things and i must say that they fancied a statistical line developed on the trajectory. this aesthetic was the main thing for them and it was interesting how they each other were related, but at least for kataev nabokov was a writer. it's clear. this is an interesting proposition. really. i think they are rewriting the book. i might even expand on the topic, what kind of nabokov are you, this terrible love is worthy of a separate, for example , literary analysis, when i teach students, at the moscow art theater school, that i really love an actor, not a philologist, of course. uh, so i propose to them to divide them into nabokovites and yeseninists in no way, without opposing the two

geniuses of russian literature, and i adore yesenin's side but still, in a sense, these are poles, either life as such, nature, yes, or such a delight in beauty nabokov wrote that he hates a person who enters the forest and does not know what it is called, each herb and so on. this is, uh, an addition to the southern fullness. heat aesthetic vision is very important. it seems to me, yes, why do you say? look, are you investigators in the sense that hmm, when the first edition of the book appeared i heard that uh, so many pages are devoted to kataev in vain, because he is like and very many authors are reduced to a formula. yes , kataev is the author of the story a lonely sail turns white. come on, this is the trend of the regiment of soviet economy soviet canon. and there is, uh , the iron door, and then there is magnificent mavistian prose, that is, uh, maybe,

perhaps, better than his prose, which he wrote in the slope of his life. that is it explain this term. it means bad, yes bad. uh, well actually the proportion shift. it's great. it was prose that did not fit into any standards, especially in socialism, and it was some wild things, free magnificent prose. this is a holy well with herbs and the vertertor has already been written. my diamond crown i recommend to everyone. and now i'm writing a book about another writer. yeah, and yuri pavlovichkov. that is, this biographical line is blown out of you. and yuri pavlovich is an absolute genius. i mean, i'm so glad to hear that from you. i myself am different, but there is also something related and, uh, this is related, i will name the password. bunin hmm it's interesting that just kataev and the cossack also had a certain line of rivalry, rolling. being extremely generous to any

other gift here, he was wary and a little tensed, sensing, in fact, just as i think, and nabokov kataev, sensing an opponent, because he was highly valued. remember this judgment dear our viewers. it's boldly nabokov valentina skate. i saw an opponent. not all of you will agree. i'll think about it , this is a hypothesis. this is of course a theorem, but an opponent on the basis of aesthetic dominance. yes, they are of a public effect are very often perceived in no way as a stem mob at all. yes, yes, it is the ubiquitous recluse. e. this is a man who miraculously escaped execution, went through wars and ended up being such a soviet american, because in the twenties they stormed the heights of life. yes, yes, these guys, and, of course, it was important for them there, even the gudok newspaper is good to live cheerfully, and we bulgakov, by the way, but in the

same company zakov's wand. uh, this is so lonely. unfortunately the voice. forgotten absolutely transparency is it's just probably the best storyteller. eh, the second half of the 20th century in a dream, this bitterly wept, of course, an absolute classic. it's like gashin's stories. uh, another red flower. you read it and re-read it and you don't feel it. what you read, because you get right there, and you find yourself inside. it 's a transparent river that carries you. well, it doesn't interfere with writing prose, of course, but i would like to return a little more to the theme of the youth of the magazine and young literature. you already started things about it. this is very correct. this is young prose, young literature, all this literature has been nurtured. kataev of course there is. let's call axions. yes, this is a wonderful

thing. ok then. ah, here is the current youth you also talked about it. you are the editor-in-chief of a youth magazine, and that in itself is very cool that the magazine exists, because not all magazines have survived. this is our sadness. this is our sadness, grief, pain and all combed literature. this is a pain, but in fact, everything must be done to ensure that this truly national treasure lives on. uh huh, actually. here through then write how much the association i headed about it. now i have begun to do a lot in order to somehow support the fat magazines leading fat men because it really is. it's tasteful. it's a combination of very different wonderful genres, and nowhere else . how exactly inside the tolstoy magazine. and it's not archaic. this is an opportunity to publish and speak for good authors of various generations of unknowns.

uh, maybe oleg grigor, chukhontsev or aleksandrovich kushnar, who, over 80, will write several poems, and they come to the magazine, but the world znamya is young and oleg grigorievich is also our beautifully young authors, who now they think where they are go there with a story with a literary-critical text. right now there is a wonderful critic from the city of kamyshin , volgograd region, ivan rodion ivan rodionov, a regular contributor to the magazine youth man, cleverly and subtly brilliant interprets modern literature is less important, yes. because everything is immediately available on the internet. yes, youth gives its space to different writers. we have a lot of famous and successful writers, but at the same time it is very important that the lion's share is a writer. this is a new generation of twenty-year-old regions, which is very important, and i am glad that many very noticeable

interesting ones have actually appeared. uh, original brand new writers. well, i just read ekaterina manuela, mmm, perfectly. uh, vera bogdanova in my opinion. the latter is already well known. well, yes , this fame arises very quickly and rapidly from the debut. i do not think that it spoils the authors, as a rule. on the contrary, it gives some impulses to continue, if it is an example for others who want to write. hey, who gets this need start to try yourself no, restrictions. no, obstacles, please, this is very cool and that the creative spirit is something that is extremely important for society, well , society and the society of the nation, the ethnos, as you like, so that there is this, e, creative environment. this is correct. eh, of course, there is no doubt about it, but in thick magazines - this is the authority that lasts. eh, well, for a century and a half, maybe even more, it was

the main thing in comb literature, because the book followed the magazine, always a man, which wanted to take place in literature there was a magazine. yes, whether it’s dostoevsky or goncharov with his farmers’ novels about this speech, this continues and it’s important for me, for example, that he wrote the whole story e before, for example, the collection came out. i give stories to thick magazines. well, you mentioned the association of , uh, writers-publishers that you would head and hmm, here again there was e skepticism. that's what the idea was, after all, as the very forces not to unify, but to support the fact is that after the collapse of the soviet union several organizations of writers were formed, but after 30 years, tearing all kinds of scum thieves of direction, that there is something very important that can be described as a common cause, because you need to support older

writers, the needy need to support the young, you need to generally help the writer. as a result, we managed to create some over structure. uh, every organization to which they entered remains independently all the largest chinese organizations for the following writers of the ussr and in. creative council of the association entered er, wonderful writers who do not fully identify themselves with any union. this also needs to be understood, this is great, because this is not a bureaucratic, but a living thing and a real writer. in a certain sense , a loner and we have writers of different generational worldviews. but there is something that manages to be done for them - these are trips of writers around the country throughout russia - these are workshops for new writers. that said, it's a creative residence. that is, the lady

of creativity, when a writer can say, i would like to live here and write to breathe to write with this far eastern air. and this is support for thick magazines. this is support for national literature and translations. and now we will have travels of writers to book fairs in the cis, which is also very important and great. in general, it is important, the dialogue of culture is very important to set up and establish this communication. hmm well, children's centers, by the way, they called the koroleva artery, what happens in literature? yes, uh, and well , i would like to say separately that simply and critics, the center of the aspire, the association of the writer of russia is the house rostov’s legendary house of rostov’s in moscow on povarskaya street, where it was literally every vorovsky’s street, a variety of literary meetings are held openly and freely for everyone, and that’s it. this. i

think it is an important and noble task. well, here we are, dear, our viewers went through such a very wide circle, because no one will be visiting sergey shagunov, and sergey sherburgunov , we also talked about how a writer can and should write about personal will that he perceives e in his creative solitude, and finished talking about the writer who organizes, uh, the process. uh, literary does. eh , all this is very much for others. and sergey shergunov and i with dark pleasure, i thank you sergey alexandrovich for this conversation and i am sure that we will meet with you more than once. thank you very much for your support. so our dear viewers. it was a literary podcast. uh, dmitry baka podcast is called. let them not speak. let them read today's issue. we

spoke with the wonderful writer sergei shergunov, and together with sergei we are telling you read, i subscribe with pleasure. this is an easy money podcast, i'm its host mikhail khanov today i have an amazing guest. e, indeed, this is doctor of economic sciences, professor, dean of the faculty of economics of moscow state university, alexander alexandrovich luzan hello, alexander a , listing your regalia. you brought up a whole series. uh, russian soviet economists. you are a strategy maker. you advise the government. you popularize science. and let's move right off the bat. that being said, uh, what are you doing? well, as far as i

i understand, lately, and this is such, and one of the focuses of your attention is the socio-cultural economy, socio-cultural economy, for our viewers, listeners of readers, this is hmm , we recognize that not only resources , geographical location, but minerals technologies affect the development of the economy of a country or region, but also a social cultural component. that is , some attitudes, behavioral values , moral and ethical values, the general level of culture, i am the correct definition. why does economics say that it is not most importantly, no, i do not want to say that everything in the economy is determined by culture. i want to say that the formulas are economic, as they once added as human capital. the so-called salt residue associated with technical problems. now we need to add the characteristics of a culture of value and behavioral attitudes of large

groups of people that are slowly changing, because, well, 5-10%, and products are determined by this 5-10%, that is, you even evaluate this in our country. what cultural and economic values, let's say there are prerequisites for using these five to ten percent to the maximum. this is a question about climate. because whether the climate in russia is good is different, and it depends, uh, the assessment of the climate on what he intends to do, because if you intend to relax, you need warm seas. and if you build in a data center, then the cold is very good. just for the construction of tsons. this is the same with culture, there is a set of characteristics, and we know them quite accurately, because 30 years of our international dust research own fields, 30 years is serious, because we have been doing this, a little more than ten

years already in russia we have been looking at different regions working with the company we have gone through. uh, 1.5 dozen regions looked at the general characteristics of the federal districts, compared with what is obtained in the field. yes, i can tell a portrait who we are. so too , i would say we have a high power distance. this means that we treat power rather as a value, which is handed. no need to touch how, as a business partner in these conditions , it is quite difficult for innovative projects to go from below, but large mobilization projects are carried out much more easily from above. uh-huh we have the highest uncertainty avoidance in the world. what it is? don't open this door. it's scary, don't change this person. the next one will be worse don't touch the system from the good got there. that's

bad quality, because the venture markets will unblock and the innovation process from slowing down is the fear of it. generally speaking, it’s hard to say for the future where he got it from, maybe these are traces of the crack reforms of the early nineties, probably, after all. i can not i can answer you rather tell you how it can be overcome. that's very interesting. there is such a thing as a culture of failure. are there stereotypes in russia? about silicon valley, what is the most successful person in silicon valley. this is a guy of 20-22 years old who did some trick in the garage and became a billionaire. so, not at 20:22, but at 43 , with your permission, and he has 5-7 12 unsuccessful projects behind him. and without going through failures

, you will not come to success, so when people are convinced through schools through films through disputes does not become a loser. it gradually lowers. here is such a fear of the future now, what else do we have, i would say our most unexpected quality is the so-called shyness, that is, let's take the twentieth century, differently called in the xx century. managed to make a satellite a spaceship. and this is my station. competitive car television refrigerator personal computer why because there are cultural characteristics that promote so -called activity and individualization standards to do that 32 points in a row, that

's not it, in culture. i can explain why the russians are able to make an ingenious prototype, but are not able to put it into circulation absolutely right. and actually, literature. this fact knows for a long time the liskov of his left-hander wrote gave in the usa shod one block was not organized. yes, why can i cite much more high-profile stories vladimirkin, invented the tv in russia, you know what the economic effect of uh, the invention of the tv. this considered mihail's mistress something one of them 20 pa products of the current russian federation 20, but not implemented in russia ivanovich are extremely important for telecommunications, which is also a colossal effect, so this is our cultural properties. i can

easily explain. where. there is a magnificent book by the historian leonid vasilievich milov of the great russian farmers, our ancestors have worked for many centuries in the zone of high-risk agriculture. and they were engaged in arable farming. it is important? i would be in contrast to rice farming, where the algorithms really observe. every 7 years the peasant changed. the fields are still karamzin wrote. so the task was not the best to adjust. eh, to find the technology of the process, algorithms and comply, and all the time to solve new problems, so there is creativity here, and the ability to comply with standards. in the production of our products is not and from my point of view. our future in the new version of the global world is that the development would be here more experienced

than the series here, and then the licensing agreements from who can make the mass production of researchers or culture in this case. because the great enlightener the writer daniil granin told me a great phrase. he said sasha in russia can do a lot. if you don't ask permission. here individualists are a person who does not ask permission. and this collectivist, who asks the family for the authority of his boss. true, he has another advantage. he, as yuri mikhailovich lotman put it, he has an archetype from denmark himself. he is ready to invest himself in a cause in the community. in this province, it’s all the same , so our country e consists of two

cultural cores, our megacities in the urals in siberia and the far east live individualists. but in all other people, and this greatly affects the country, i can say that even the perception of such events as a geopolitical split, they are still different for individuals and russia. and i believe that the future of the country largely depends on whether we are able to a country where and russia understand each other to work together, not against each other. it can be done as long as it takes. here's your estimate of any conversion recipe taking 25 to 40 years. it's three generations even five evil 2 here is a generation is considered 15 years old. i will tell you. where is this known from? and there are countries that can be considered as experimental laboratories. although in fact there is a historical tragedy behind this. here is

germany. first it was divided, then it was explained that korea was divided. but there are shitty ones where migrations constantly come, how you can see in israel or the usa what is happening to them there and what is happening to the corresponding generations in the countries and well, england with its colonies is also like uh, history can be considered as syria to asia the experiment said so, but 15 years ago, an analysis was carried out for two germany , this was done by a well-known economist. he wrote an article goodbye. lenin is the night. and the calculation showed that it would take 40 years to completely overcome the difference between east and west germany. in general, we have not heard this figure. moses led his people.