and she decided that both fron and alya would simply die without her because of the children. i would very much like to say, because they are also pouring mud, which means that e has no place to be. i sometimes ask a question in the hall. raise your hand , that person who knows what hunger is , there is not a single hand of larisa in the hall, people do not know what hunger is. i want to tell you a terrible thing, i know what it was, what it is not to eat for 5 days for seven and dream of a piece of bread, what is it like not to have a roof over your head? i know it, you know, they don't know, she doesn't committing and committing even more heinous acts, more terrible, but they are not marina

tsvetaeva, which means it was a very simple twig. look, but while her children were in this orphanage. she didn’t lie down on the bed, didn’t, i’m sorry to peel off the wallpaper there, you know, she didn’t go crazy, she had a relationship. she continued to live. let's now remember how it all happened. come on, she had children to feed feeding was extremely difficult. she didn't go. and very often, that children bring a piece of bread, it's all about love and my soul, so someone to her said that there is such a kuntsevsky shelter. and what do they feed the children? well, really, why not believe in watching it? so why didn't you go? she, who took them there, and she took the children irina and alya both girls there, and suddenly at one moment. uh, the news came,

i don’t know how there weren’t any phones that i got sick. alya got sick, alya had a terrible temperature of 40 and even a little higher , and they couldn’t diagnose her, and she died and marina ran and took alya home. and she nursed her. she is not from her retreated, and at this very moment, when all this was happening, she was fighting for her life. irina died in the orphanage there, and no one told her, and they buried her there. she found out everything, then i can continue we are talking.

poems two hands lowered on the infant's head were given to me, one for each two heads, but with both clamped furiously, as best as it could, the older darkness, snatching out the younger did not save, two hands to caress the gentle heads of the magnificent two hands, and now one of them turned out to be extra light on a thin neck dandelion, damn it. but it is still not at all understood that my child is in the earth, and i do not want to eat, drink and live, but to cross my arms quietly, to swim with my eyes across the empty sky and for freedom. i'm not nasty. oh god

, i don't allow anyone to talk about this situation and about marina badly. who is speaking? who does not know what it was. and she left, soon irina did not become at the beginning of the twentieth year , the twenty-second she left. uh, marina went to sergei yakovlevich. eh, where did the masaryk call to the czech republic? and here's an amazing write hurt another. no, a thousand times better to endure the most i'm not the winners. i myself am under court, my court is stricter than yours, i don’t like myself, i don’t sit. so that people do not say

a phrase to the marin, they will always say a bad one. this is also true, when the first wife, but about the front written too early, brother too young. the main difference between his sociability of the public is my wolf's solitude. he can’t live without a newspaper, and i can’t live in a house where the main newspaper lives. here, when here it was leaving with the undressing family. yes, boring, yes the heart does not beat, but i was given a terrible gift of conscience, disrespect for the suffering of others. she said who is your neighbor. the law of god is the one who is most in you. e needs, maybe writes. she was a fool, they would have been happy without me, but who would have convinced me then. i was sure they were sure that without me they would die. and now i'm a burden to them. god's

punishment they all want to act to build a life. they need something else than what i can give, gave away and remained useless to anyone. i understand it well, i am like that. i'm sorry and i and i understand why you are why she is the universe for herself, the universe is valuable. yes, and for some reason her lawyer, of course, thank you. thank you for calling. i am always happy to talk about marina and what i refute is important what you said today, it is so important. this is a podcast of letters, and i had a guest , great

svetlana kryuchkova this is a podcast of the creative industry and in the roman karmanov studio elena kiper and we are talking today with the great soviet and russian writer sergey lukyanenko and somewhere else they write, a psychiatrist. but seriously, that's it that's right, yes, former former, well, there are always former former great mystery how a writer gives birth to such massive huge works. how is it all born? how are you? how do you nurture you compose? or do they come by themselves? for the most part, they do it themselves. i don't really think that here the profession of a psychiatrist is very important doctors, of course, there are many among writers and among writers. fastov too, but there are dentists and therapists and surgeons. it doesn't interfere. uh, but actually, a medical education probably gives some kind of plus.

like anyone, teach education in general. t look at the world systematically and since childhood i loved science fiction and for me, as it were, the main favorite method, when i started writing, was to introduce some kind of unexpected fantastic assumption into the world, and only after one single assumption appears. you can watch what's going on in the world. is it possible to teach to be a fantasy? this is a tricky question to help you learn. you now have two projects at once, as far as i know, these are the stars over the donbass, one and another lukyanenko's workshop is all about young beginners. uh, unknown, uh, writers, well, who or who thinks he is writing - uh, according to your observations. here uh. how many people from those who were seen can become a writer, really in the future. well, the stars in the donbass, after all, not exactly

my project. hey, i'm in it. it began 5 years ago as a project of cultural assistance to the residents of donbass, because people were completely cut off from the media environment. they could not see the favorite performers of the writers, and we came to meet the readers. they just showed that they were not forgot. and what about the hmm literary workshop? uh, right here, really. i think this is a very important big deal. uh, writing is a very lonely job writing. for the most part, he sits at home, and writes at the computer. you know how, in the first years of soviet power, writers gave the name of a single handicraftsman without a motor. this is how we stayed. as soon as we got a motor computer, and in order for creative writers to somehow develop, it needs to communicate with colleagues, it needs to listen to you not only voices

read or there, everything is clear. there will be those who will scream. this is the best book that i read and those who will scream that this is a terrible graphomania, in general stop writing forever. and here is the opinion of colleagues who also write support for their criticism. their. this is very important. and for this, there used to be all sorts of seminars, where they were going to write or and young authors under the guidance. meters such as e snow vilenkin e, strugatsky well , many of our wonderful writers there. they studied under the guidance of these, uh, writers, like they were training. eh, they understood what was good and what was bad. this tradition was broken for a long time for 20 years, at least. and now we have revived it here, er, the first such workshop was held in the fantastic city of korolev near moscow and 36 people gathered

from all over the country. uh, they moved out , they all saw for the first time that there are the same uh, people nearby who are completely passionate about this and communicated during the week , studied each other's texts. uh, the lecturers came. that is, it was such a boiler, where they simmered, and i just saw that when they left, they were still simmering. they continue to communicate, argue, show each other fragments. that is, they have the opportunity to communicate. i want to get to that boiling point. but what if i just wanted to, well, that is, i'm not a writer, i have a very indirect relationship with writing. but i would like to know how to do it. well, it's just hard to get there. uh, because it really is a selection. and there come the people who wrote their first there second novel that they write. um, maybe next time we'll do some kind of real event more open. where can you come

and see. and you often go out to a large audience. well, if in the format of learning to work with colleagues with young authors, then for the first time, that is, we had no. we had, of course, these kinds of events, but they were usually one-day events within the framework of some fantastic festival. uh, we met and discussed the works of young authors, but as a rule, it was. the short form tells it all lasted there 3-4 hours, the maximum is. well, i don't know, it's not very serious. and here it was perfect. there is an opinion that there is a deceived generation. well, this is about my age, maybe a little older, these are people who were brought up on soviet science fiction, who had, in general, a conviction formed by science fiction writers. again, that, in principle, by 2023 we will already be on other planets, and we will have a completely different world. and now that nothing has happened.

but this is a phenomenon. yes how do you feel about generation? is there really? maybe you yourself treat him the same way to some extent when i was still a very young man. i introduced the science fiction club. i was 20 years old, i just corresponded by paper mail with similar clubs from other cities back then. union and i remember that when our reusable ship buran e flew, they wrote to me, well , people from some distant corners of the country just wrote. yes, what a holiday for them, that we are starting to seriously explore the cosmos, that they were waiting for this, that is, yes, indeed. this expectation was not only among us. by the way, here is ray bradbury wrote. uh, literally years there, probably 10 years ago. uh, in some article. uh, about the fact that we should have been on mars right now, we should have been living

on the moon. instead, we traded everything for the fact that our mobile phones have become thinner and the screen shows more colors. i have a sample. i tried when covid came. e went to learn to write. eh, and before that i studied at the university film academy and started writing the first script. and here is my first script that i put in the closet. started after 2 years does not happen with me. this i mean that e writers are those who have the power of the word of fantasy, and this further materializes. it's just that you understand it, it gently asks. you see, because a huge number of films have come out, and the film apocalypse there is sometimes a feeling that it is somehow starting to echo with our reality. well, you know, here i can say, as a science fiction writer , yes, i can really say, as

a psychiatrist, that this is self-programming, that is, by writing some script and setting out there are some things that bothered you. eh, apparently, since you wanted you to continue to move in this direction , both versions are quite real. so just take your pick a couple of weeks ago. uh, another one almost came true. in general , news appeared from the elena kiper universe that an unidentified flying object appeared over e. the united states was involved in shooting them down in general, but therefore, in principle, what surprised me was that no one was very surprised by this event. do you have anyone surprisingly, in our time , you already somehow imagined that the twenty-second twenty-third year is the twentieth year. they 'll turn around like this for us and can you see beyond the horizon? well, of course, i had no idea, that is, the same covid. i

honestly thought that by the end of the year i did not think it was a matter of months, but i thought that by the end of the year it would resolve. i remember february. we flew abroad, with my family, and we just saw that part of the plane was sitting in deaf masks, and somehow it even amused us. here's what panic among the people, and a week later we flew to the city of london and london gave the impression of the city of london from an american post-apocalyptic film, because everything was practically empty, we went into a huge lower store, and there were only sellers in the store. and my wife and i are no one else, and here i realized that it would be serious, but i still set aside half a year, but what was happening, but everything dragged on very much. here, uh , you understand, of course, you can look ahead, but the future is really very much too much. too many different forks. yeah that is, after all, this is our

universe the universe of each person or our common one, because when we all believe in the same thing, in general, our synergy can lead. what do you think, can it lead to us, can one way or another , maybe, at least at the level of creating some kind of general psychological picture of such a general idea of ​​how the world will develop, that is, you know, this is called a self-fulfilling prophecy, that is when a person, uh, begins to predict something and goes along this path himself. uh, with people from states with peace. this can also happen, that is, to continue this topic , whether writers and creative people can form such a reality that politicians will follow and public figures will eventually end up somewhere in very good places, but we are trying. we are really trying. i used to sit and write science fiction about epidemics. i tried, on the contrary, to avoid this topic in every possible way. here. uh, well we're trying we're trying

we're trying to write. uh, good things and good meanings of the future will be with you force. here is our this one is our literary workshop, for example, it was built on the fact that we teach those who are trying to create a positive image of the future. well, first of all, the future of russia, of course, our country. well, as a matter of fact, the whole world, because those who write about a nuclear war, about an epidemic , about the invasion of the planets. i do not know there the disappearance of the moon to earth. they will always find their reader, people love to get scared and write something negative. it's quite simple, but write. uh, positive things even. utopia. this is already a challenge. unfortunately, i didn’t read it, but i watched the draft film, and there is one of the worlds where there is no oil and gas and everything is very peaceful. well, yes, but

it’s actually not that completely peaceful there, they still manage to conflict a little somehow. well, yes, i removed there from this world, neftegaz, uh, i decided to see what would be there, there are several such interesting worlds. uh, there is a world uh, with feudalism victorious, which has developed to the modern level and so on. there the picture was quite interesting. worlds. unfortunately, of course, in the film it was only possible to slip along the edge not always. luckily a hero is born you like him, uh, psychotherapist. well, as a psychologist, but you build it up or he himself begins to live in this world, but i usually get into it. it's ka tak, meaning, uh, i'm inventing some world some situation. uh, let's say, let's say, let's say there exists in the world. uh, passages to other

worlds to go through, through which you can tell some interesting smart story, this is the spectrum book, that is, aliens arrived they put portals to other planets everywhere, but in order to get through you need to tell something interesting and smart. and here are the main characters. he has this ability. and so he travels between worlds. and accordingly , from this idea grows, as it were, a general framework, and then you start to add some there. well, as you know, that's like, uh, wind. there is such a general mask of a stained-glass window, and then you start filling it with, uh, multi-colored glass, and you get some kind of picture in general. at the beginning, you need to come up with some kind of this frame, this grid thin. which holds everything, and then put the multi-colored glasses there correctly, it will be beautiful.

i'm roman karmanov, and i'm elena kiper, we continue the conversation with sergei lukyanenko what time do social networks really lead us now and are we able and should we, for example, refuse them at least to some extent? i think that, of course , you need to distance yourself, because you understand, there is such a cumulative effect of the accumulation of surrounding opinions. uh, a person comes online. he has some views. he involuntarily finds like-minded people. those begin to support these views and the person very quickly becomes radicalized. here he is from some moderate position on some issue. he quickly jumps to some completely extreme level. e that they are good, therefore, of course, you need to control yourself in the network to understand that it is a network. it also influences you now, 61.30 million people already visit metatars and live there,

well, there is good news, comrades. wait to calm down two days ago something about the fact that the meter of the universe is losing popularity dramatically. uh, investors stop investing in them, and so on. people refuse. they don't , i'm sure it's unlikely that these scribes paid for it, inferior virtuality, it can't drag it out so much, you can talk as much as you like. look, what a wonderful virtual house i have, how many rooms there are, pools and peacocks walk, but at the same time, everyone generally understands that he is sitting on a sagging sofa, and he is building some kind of virtual palaces there and parts arise, because children are born with gadgets in their hands. for them these universes. they are already sewn on. they know how to share. i think they can. anyway, i'm looking. uh, for my children, for their acquaintances. i have a feeling they are. here the current generation is

calmer and healthier about this. eh, for our generation - this caused a little, in general, the appearance of all such conditional virtuality of the network. it was kind of a shock. many simply ended up at a depth and began to choke for the next generation there, perhaps those born at the beginning of the 2000s, but yes. it was like this a very full-fledged environment, and they dabbled in it with pleasure, but the current one is already somehow differentiated. i mean, uh, i've seen it many times. uh, what, uh , the children grab, let's say, some box with a board game, lay out some card figures on the floor of the table. here they play it with him less, motoring with much more pleasure than all the senses will offer in some network games. i'm sorry all feelings, if there will be entrepreneurship, yes. that's where part of the population, of course,

will take advantage, but this is still a long way off. and how do you yourself react to the emergence of various new products you go to explore? what is there or so in general to rebuild? no, well, i like something, i go and explore something, i reject something. something just understand that, well, i don't need it. there, yes, an interesting gadget, an interesting technology, which i think is right. as a matter of fact, where will i use this wonderful gadget. not really needed for me. someone needs to be here, well, i try to approach more sensibly. and here is the universe sergey lukyanenko launches many formats. i would call it in the creative industries, what we call creative and interpreting creative things, uh, there are films made from your books. and how to negotiate with you screenwriters and directors, how easy it is not for you to work with them, but for them to work with you, of course, you need to ask them. what do you think i'll tell you? yes, they are a golden man

, no, in fact, i always try to be understanding. uh, especially the director, because the director who takes on our science fiction is already in to some extent. well, if not a saint, then a great martyr, that is, a person who, in general, took for something very difficult and very poorly worked out with us. eh, if in the west, and even in the east, this everything has already been put on the production line of science fiction films, then in our country it is just now unwinding, but happiness has already begun, and therefore i am patient, as a rule, with all failures and some with the directors' own initiatives. hey screenwriters. you know, i'm a screenwriter myself too, i, uh, write the screenplay. in basically, of course, on their own. things, well, sometimes

, according to strangers, i literally did it the other day, a script for one not my project. but i really like him at first. that's how i joined him. i hope that it will be done, unfortunately, i can not name anything specifically. uh-huh well, how did it happen that with all the baggage of soviet science fiction. we have squandered science fiction so much, and as a result, we are forced to catch up with it now, too, when science fiction itself is most in demand in all types of creative industries, such as computer games, that desktop that books, that films serials anything. well, we had a fantasy. uh, strongly cut off from the western world from the entire huge layer, american english , er, fiction, that is, thank god stanislav lem and other masters were available there, but not all, and accordingly, when it flooded into the nineties. lots of good and bad fiction. e readers. in

general, i choked on it. he began to read actively our western authors for a while, abandoned our floundering. uh, many they simply began to imitate taking some samples well, when there were worthy samples and trying to work in this vein, that is, there was such a fair subsidence. eh, in 2000 the situation improved a little, firstly, our reader returned. he realized that far from everything that is written. it's good there. it turned out that after all, like everywhere else, 90% is garbage. and, accordingly, i began to look at our authors, who still write about our people of our reality, i realized that this is also interesting. that's somewhere in the thousands there since 2005, maybe a year. in my opinion it goes like this a certain renaissance of our fa poems its rise, er, i believe that it is

firmly ranked second in the world. and how ready are you for young filmmakers , creators, directors, to come and ask to film, uh, try to film. and what about your, uh, books, that is, or parts, or shall we say? well, something that they define for themselves. what can they take on? uh, it's a whole story, intellectual property licenses, agree to get in somehow. well, look, there are several options. first, there is. eh, such a concept when e is a non-commercial project. it is often students in wild, for example, graduates are shooting some kind of short film. they usually turn to me asking permission. i say good shot. well, sometimes i say ok pay one ruble. that is, here is such an opportunity, too, yes, well. that is, this is not an exclusive thing. this is precisely

the opportunity. e people to work out to work. sometimes it works out well, sometimes not so much, but something works out, there are situations that are somewhat different. here i have. uh, roman's autumn visits and i love him very much. he is so old, his 30 years already. and i offered him repeatedly for film adaptation, no one took him, although he is very simple for film adaptation, he is so serious and heavy, and apparently this somehow scared everyone away. e to me in vladivostok four years ago. uh, two young people came up. uh, vladivostok uh, cinematographer. eh, they say sergei vasilyevich we would very much like to take it off. i say guys. here no one is taken, everyone is afraid. i will give you. just show what you can do. they say okay. we will show, a year has passed. i ended up in vladivostok again, they ran up to me with a laptop open and show they filmed two scenes.

e, from the book, i think, opa, how did it happen and i play everyone well, and so on, it turned out they attracted local actors from vladivostok with fresh, not worn faces, who played in general absolutely on a public initiative, so to speak, on their own and that is, they played for nothing and played during off-hours, i'm looking at everything well. i say guys well here is 1 rub. in my opinion, they don’t have a ruble with them to pay either found and found food some no. no, the contract was signed normally. they found a chinese coin. yuan, paid one yuan. but yes, they filmed they filmed eight-episode series. now post-production is underway, according to the mind, 6 episodes out of eight have already been shoveled there for the second time for the last time. there, everything there was sharply squeezed under, cut down, recorded music. there are good effects. there is a wonderful game, it turned out to be a normal eight-episode fantasy series. how do you feel

about the discussion that we do not have good scripts. we don't have good uh lyrics. at we don't have good writers, we don't have anything and films. we don't have good ones either. no, we say, so here it is necessary to divide. we have a lot of good fantasy. we have a lot of good stories we have, er, after all. uh, a lot of things, but we really have a problem with the writers. the only thing i can say is that it's a problem. in fact, it's happening all over the world right now. uh, i think a lot of the problem is because it 's a film producer now. eh, on the one hand. this is understandable, the producer gives money. he does not want to risk. uh, on the other hand, the screenwriter wrote the text of the script, like everyone says, ok then come to the producer. he says yes, it's great. just now, you know , add a girl here. here is the fight. and then put the corpse. well the screenwriter is starting to pry on himself. curls adds that girl

then the fight is over. then the director comes and says, no, we need to redo it a little. you know, in such and such a film it was very good and adds something else and as a result appears. as a result, a film that was not shot according to the script was written. well, the writers but it’s just such a prefabricated attraction, in one scenario, when i was very tormented, i say, and here you need some kind of bright unusual spectacle, and the action took place in a medieval city. and i wrote saying in the background there is a large in the process of dwarfs some swallowers juggling with multi-colored maces. and just like that, things like this began to be inserted, it was filmed. no, it hasn't been filmed. unfortunately. it was interesting to throw out a creative industry podcast from him, and in the studio, roman karmanov and elena are visiting us.

uh, sergei lukyanov, the great soviet, fantastic writer russia, yes, he watched the american tv series, somehow uh, and there was such a plot, and a person who thinks that he is talented or not, talented, he has the opportunity to take a pill. and if he is really a talented talent and it is revealed, he begins to write with terrible force. and if not, the talented one turns into a zombie vampire and begins to walk around and eat people. here, at the dawn of your activities. e, when you realized that you can generally eat a pill already, but in fact a writer, even when he wrote his first story. he must be generally sure that he is a genius. eh, at least potentially. uh, here , without this, you can't do this job without this, because you look on the shelf of bookstores and you become. bad and you think what i'm doing and why am i writing something else? he has already written a lot, but

in a good way, probably, it was a book atomic dream. i have such an old one, an old one is completely written, in my opinion, about 20 years old e stories. and when i wrote it, i suddenly realized that it was more or less good. i realized that it didn’t work out and somehow noted it for myself. so it was joyful and then there were several more such works. there were autumn visits, after which i realized that i had written a good novel, and there was spectrum and a few more books. that is, every time. so , at a certain stage, you write a book and think. i'm done. i took some peak for myself and you can eat the pill again. and now young people are asking you how to make money. well, they ask, of course, they ask, because this is a scheme when a person works all day, and in the evening he sits and writes something. well, she's still young.

maybe e ride. and when a person is already 30-40 years old, then in the evening you still want to relax a little, and not do a second job of writing. this is also work. now i just advise everyone and say, go and engage in electronic publications, because young people now love it very much. e, such a reading format as e reading from a tablet from a phone and so on, there are a lot of sites. uh, where are the authors that's how they exhibit and, uh, people pay there. well, a person announces a subscription, says, here i am writing a novel. there, read three chapters for free. if you like it, there for 50 rubles. you will read to the end there or at the table, who evaluates their work as a result, and as a result, some authors become super popular earn big, really big money, but there is another danger here, because reading or he is

a person who wants to get something all the time that he already liked. and here is a young author wrote his novel, everyone screamed there. hurray man, suddenly everything worked. he is 20 years old there, he wrote a book and earned there in a couple of months more than his dad earns in a year. his eyes are on fire. he is screaming. now i will write a new book, the reader is screaming, no, we like that one, write a sequel for the person already. strictly speaking, there are no ideas for a continuation, but it is necessary. he sits down to write a second book. so now i'm writing a new one. no , he writes the third. then he says to himself. no, i'll write a new one. i'm a writer writes a completely new plot and all his faithful readers. they say that fu is not at all what we wanted and he sees that he is in a financial failure and as a result a person begins to earn a young author, but he is forced to uh work. that's purely by order of the public. you always write what you feel like what torments you almost always i

tried a couple of times, uh work. let's just say it's on order. uh, usually it was connected with some kind of computer games, that is, people create a computer game that is interesting and they have a thought. but if a famous writer writes, uh, a novel about our computer game, then it will become even more popular. yes, it basically works. uh, but when you write a novel like this, to order, you've been persuaded to be motivated. you sit and write, but you feel that you are, in general, still doing. eh, not what he wanted. this is a very unpleasant feeling. i've uh written books like this a couple of times. uh, well, don't really want to repeat eating the recipe. how many hours a day do you need, but enter the invest. well, there is, such a good rule of thumb is to write something every day. that's at least half a page at least a page. eh, to be honest, even if

a person writes a page. uh, every day one page of computer text over there, yes, then he will write a couple of romanovs in a year uh-huh banned the film adaptation of several of his works, not only for film adaptation for theater productions. uh, they were related to the fact that children are just like in american schools. uh, over the past 10 years, these cases have been repeated. uh, murder was committed with children, and he forbade categorically not gave anyone permission. and you have such, perhaps not. i know what it's about. uh, king has a few stories about teenagers who organized a school shooting there and, to be honest, i didn’t write such things, yes, and in general these books. i think king's is not the best, but let's get back to the industry, after all. yes indeed industry. western for some time captured our market, but quite obviously. now it has partly receded, but

it has rushed along with the interest of our citizens too. that is, they continue to search western western, series western, movies and so on. they asked us to make some super efforts to return this attention to the inside of the country, to our native soil, to our science fiction, our series, our films, and so on. it seems to me that any such film production, production of games , production of quality music. this is , in fact, also a production. this is a product that you can sell to earn. uh, at worst, money. they just stayed inside the country, and at best it is also an export product. that is, uh, support worth at least already, starting from this actually in the same serial and production. it seems to me that we have already reached quite a decent parity not everywhere, we are pulling out in terms of special effects and technology. this is understandable

, because it adds up to less than the sum, but in terms of the performance of the actors in the plot of e, we are already fully drawing out and there are a number of projects. again, i will not name, who are watching with delight, and they are ahead of, uh , some western counterparts, but if we continue the topic, then go to foreign territories with our films and our meanings with our books. how much this is also necessary and there is and with what, well, it seems to me that there is something i can say, let's say about myself. i don’t know now, i think they will publish much less in europe, eh, but in fact they are publishing now and there is still a proposal and everything is going very actively to the east. uh, there is a lot of interest in china. there is an interest in our culture. in general, it has traditionally been preserved, and you can go there , you have to go.