in the middle between the two parts, we will, as always, have a surprise at this time. i remind that i am either reading a poem or showing some old book from my own library. let's see what will happen this time, uh, uh, i'm happy to start this conversation . sergey, please tell us how it happened that you entered literature so early. well, not everyone will make their debut, if i remember correctly at 18 or at 19, how did it happen this is a family tradition. it's some special time that it worked out, that i started writing very early, composed fairy tales , rewrote books of life, because i was born in the family of a priest. and hmm, in general , the passion for literature captured me literally in the very early years ; and i would say, yes, and these were such half-hearted lives, but such homespun

covers of the lives of the new martyrs of those who were forcibly put to death in the 20th century. yes, if the hagiographic tradition of the civil war and later at 30, it’s clear that literature captured and he began publishing his own magazine at the age of 10. in general, we are for the family. in general, i distributed it and even agreed with a neighbor who reprinted something. although mostly. i printed it myself. yes, of course, and then it was photocopied and in general it went, what is called to the people, for example, my first debut in the official press for the future is the ogonyok magazine where my note was published there. first there was a text about me, then some text of mine, and all this revolved around this magazine. this note was of a literary nature of a critical or it was an essay. i don't remember. it was dedicated to the fact that there is such a schoolboy. who already

publish a magazine called freedom , listen to how cool it is. this is a public literary publication. these are legendary years. these are the years when vitaly korovich led the spark, yes, when he was resurrected in the spark, gumilyov in the eighty- sixth year, this is a little later, apparently yes a little later yes, in the early nineties, the ninetieth year, the ninetieth year. and you are eightieth, that is , you are 10 years old, of course, i don’t even know, pushkin is 14 debuted will not be compared and then, of course, it was written a lot. eh, well, already being a student at moscow university, he took his stories to the novy mir magazine. journalist faculty of journalism, yes, aha journalism and at 19 years old. uh, posted there. so you are, uh, a professional writer. what a terrible combination of words. no, well , everyone writes, yes, it is known e clearly at 10-12 years old. e at 15:00, but not everyone enters the new world of 19 years. yes, for me it was an event. and

happiness, i remember, we somehow hung out with classmates and uh, there was some kind of topic with hitting some night club and i licked over the fence and one of them yelled at me. there climbs the author of the new world. and although the rest understood this publication was just ahead, but it inspired me and it seems to me that i myself distributed it. uh, this is the energy of the legend. that is, it was a legend already in argunov. well, cool, yeah cool to publish. it inspired and down with energy, then write more things, then apply for an award, debilds. i received it. well, in general, well, somehow i can’t imagine myself without writing, but at the same time i like it. it's heat debutantism. hmm always want to feel at the beginning of something to do something to present, despite the fact. that family

is enough mom and dad. e, of course , literary history, because before that, by the way, the pope was a priest, and therefore there were always a lot of friends of writers in the family as a translator. hmm. there, too, anastasia ivanovich tsvetaeva can be said, i was brought up by my mother and daughter of soviet writers, and at the same time, but among your relatives , i understand sergey gerasimov, yes, you know, there , despite the fact that there are different, eminent ancestors. it is very important for me to feel my independence to remain myself and on the one hand, looking with love with tenderness with awe with an understanding of complexity, because sometimes the ancestors literally opposed each other, dividing into red and white. and yet i feel. what is called the first? well, it is also very important that you do not so much

continue the tradition as try to do something new as often happens, and the famous phrase of mikhail roma remember the two students who entered him alone knew nothing, and the other knew everything, and both were geniuses, they were, respectively, vasily shukshin and andrei tarkovsky. you know, the formula for innovation in the tradition is close to me. uh-huh, that is. eh, it's really important to feel. this channel has been laid before us, but i really want and it is very important that whatever you think. you say you do it was not borrowed free yours. well, you mentioned the bonus, moron. this important institution of that time, the prize existed for quite a long time, probably a decade and a half. i could be a little wrong, but that's about it. uh, so many through it entered the literature and debut award. uh, i never had a relationship with her and i remember that she is interesting because, uh, those who do not yet

know whether they are writers or not participate in the competition. yes, i remember 400 kg of e-mail, which were stored in the first season. yes, i sent it myself. i remember how now in a yellow envelope in a yellow envelope my tale of love, baby, punished, baby punished, but you knew that you were a writer. in contrast to many did not think at all that i would win there were then 40.000 thousand rivals. yes. this is huge in one category lottery. now, in the example, the lyceum occupies this niche, and it's still hmm, a very important mechanism for discovering young talents, of course, the most important feeling, it's still personal. but hmm, when you take some step towards the reader and meet support. it seems to me that this is important especially at an early time, baby, punishment - what is this about love? eh, a young teenager who is twisted and laid out seductively. eh, lady, well, as you can see, yes. perhaps in a variety of ways this is in general

such a largely dramatic plot and early in many respects a confessional thing , which is still dear to me in general, probably, someone said that the basis of any literature is often an unhappy heart, some kind of broken pain, as they said, tarkovsky pain. there is no such thing as a break for happiness, therefore, it is very fashionable to exploit the theme of trauma. but even before it became fashionable. uh, everyone has always understood that hmm, the experience shapes the writing. you know, the topic of trauma is a special one, of course, the topic is not close to me either. uh, well, here's some violence feeling in this thread social element. that is, it is always some kind of projection of a personal subtle remark, but a social phenomenon. this is your point of view, the new socialism of socialism was supposed to show from public life the production

of the guiding helm of the party, but here you spend as usual and within. eh, this canon arise, of course money. well, but here all the same speeches, and i insist i do not know summer experience. here, and an attempt to scale it socially and generalize always goes in line with the artistic. it's none of my business, but if i were a prose writer, i probably would i thought yes, because, well, in general, literature does not need to be driven into a procrustean bed , it was not. and even when you have some kind of concept, because without it there is no way. then literature itself takes you beyond these beyond these boundaries, because if the characters come to life, they already behave somehow by their whimsical routes. pushkin said that tatyana cleaned the thing, yes, and got married. remember, it's wonderful. uh, wonderful now wrote a new book. and how many times do you write a chapter. you know a hero must go there postpone. it's not how it all works out.

and exactly the opposite, because, well, some kind of feeling of truth probably dictates, another plot of truth is artistic, of course, it is both moral and educational at the same time. but you understood a very important topic right now very many. unfortunately they are straight forward. yes, what i read about something good became better i read about what this bad thing became worse there is no shame and literature changes a person, including through complexity and through evil, but after reading it sometimes. uh, they are poorly made, but god has a hatted christmas story. on the contrary, you can become a skeptic and lose faith in the whole world, but after reading a heavy e-tragic book. you can actually become lighter, because deeper and you can't speak straight. not everyone understands this either. uh, my favorite example is a soviet cartoon. they are of the soviet era, where

the teacher explains how to be modest, you need to do this, and then there are among you, there are blooded people, they all say, that is, you can’t pronounce it. i'm modest i should be in this business and so this attracted your young prose, but then you were not alone there memoir genre, because i did not accidentally say about the heat of debutantism. all the time you want to move on. the worst thing is to stop and tell. so i was like this and lead to some kind of series for me every new book, like the first uh-huh this is great. here's a little bit. remember those e writers that you were fond of, who fascinated you , you will probably mention budora or lemonade, and the figure of a complex controversial literature is a book - a book from different conversations with very different people. uh, in life, they might just be. friendly relations, although all of them

are somehow connected by a common past and e at about the same time. they came to literature, and still went through traffic jams. this is not only limonov and not only yuri vitalyevich maleev, but it is also valentina yuryevich rasputin and evgeny aleksandrovich yevtushenko and fazil vylovitch. skander. this is andrei georgievich bitov and many many others. eh, and for me, of course, it is precious that i managed to communicate with these people and look at them in my own way. but if we talk about the same edward telmonov, well, in due time it is known that i gave all the money from the debut award, well, to a lawyer. in general, we are not lucky to communicate with him. uh, and for me it is, of course, uh, very bright free, and above all an artist for me, too.

in fact, in a sense, he is following the razumov line in literature, because it is impossible to reduce him to something square and flat, after all, that rozanov was doing this. zana is a mysmatic inna a cab driver, but this is no less, after all, she was a practitioner and is also alive in life. yes live ah and broadcast it in his prose era should to say that i am preparing to release a new publisher. there is no new unknown book, dartan, uh, before his death rose or poetry, he wrote a collection of poems. these are the verses of a dying man, in general , the bitterness of defeat is the strongest of all, and in a sense, he even exploited this technique. eh, when from the personal sphere of betrayal the betrayal of the departed wife, who sold her comrades, and this turned

into excellent literature. after all, uh, such a constant diary is a loser, and he could achieve a lot of semi-official social benefits, but unlike many who, he imagines himself followers and successors. i would say i do not, but someone does not test this. he was absolutely not conjuncture, and he is devoid of conformism. wow, that's a complex figure. it is terrible for our literature, excellent, because he is a wonderful poet, and i hope that this book is not known in the last sticks of lemons, completely collected by him precisely as a collection. and it will be out soon. well, let's wait for the book, and now, according to tradition, in the middle of our program, we will turn to the poems of another, therefore, books. so we continue our conversation in the next issue literary podcast. dmitry tank. let them not speak. let the wonderful guest

sergei shargunov read. you remember, of course, our dear viewers, that i really like to show you books from my library. this time i brought you a beautiful book. this is the legendary known to all. uh, the collection of nikolai alekseevich zabolotsky called stolbtsy is a debut, by the way, the debut collection is zabolotsky, which later, but became completely different after e his arrest after his ordeals after repressions, and this publishing house writers in leningrad 1929 a pearly beautiful book in which zabolotsky, as it were, tries to vestically, or something, somehow dismember a single picture of the world and show, but some kind of holiday that arose. right in the midst of everyday life, no matter how copper with the monks. he's probably a pyrosman , that's how i will read a poem about football

, not only because i once seriously played football, but because i think this poem is wonderful. see how the game there grows to the scale of some universal events. and how beautiful it all is here football nikolai zabolotsky rejoices forward on the run , now what does he care, as if the bones protect his open body, like a cloak his soul flies, the collarbone knocks loudly, and the interception of his cloak dances. in the ear, the membrane dances in the throat, the grapes and the ball flies over the row. he is seized, his poisons are stopped at random, but iron poison heels are more terrible for him than you are so glad they fell into a pile of inlays. these are defenders back defender. becky, swollen from the draft, fell into a heap. and through the seas and rivers open spaces squares of snow, straightening his lush armor and

rooting in the meridian, the ball flies off, rejoices forward to the fire, blowing his iron knee, but fantan beats from his throat. he falls screaming, the betrayal of the ball spins between the walls, whether it's a ball, or whether it's the globe smoking, puffing up laughing, squeezing the eye. good night. the peephole will open good afternoon and the striker wants to torture four goals. pali in a row above them pipes do not rattle. he counted them and wiped them with a rag , the melancholy goal, the kipper and shouted. night comes night, strumming a diamond damper. she leaves a black key. a hospital opened into the atmospheric hole, alas, here words speed ​​​​without a head above it, two copper spears , a stubborn ball with a rope, are knitted from the afterlife slab.

water flows into the cut-out holes and the grapes dry in the throat, sleep-forward backwards, sleep poor forward above the ground. the dawn has fallen deep , the girls are dancing at dawn by the blue stream. still withering to rest in a purple house, the wallpaper is getting old. mom every day sleep poor forward we live very important that this poem was subsequently rewritten and edited. but this is an early version. beautiful poem by nikolai zabolotsky period. yes, yes, when he was close to kharms kvedensky to the albanian group, on the one hand, it was hallucinatory, and on the other hand, a very realistic poem

, i must tell the audience that we are both football players dmitry petrovich. when there were five or six fat ones in the clearing. yes, it was a great job. well , let's talk. uh, now about, uh, one of your main books is a book. here in my hands this is one of her editions. this is a book called kataev the pursuit of eternal spring by valentina petrovich kataev. how easy is it to guess the titles? what is the mystical connection with the hero? after all, the author can't just write someone's biography, maybe because he is uh hmm associated with youth magazine like you or not only this connection continues. yeah, because i became the editor-in-chief of youth after writing this book. maybe this, as it were , was the reason for the youth magazine. well, i dreamed i shook hands, and then they called from there and say, listen, come you by that time. they wrote the book, yes, that is, it was such gratitude, i perceive it that way. well, wonderful, but to say that for

me this is a wonderful excellent stylist. uh, just a wonderful writer, and in literature for me it's artistic. this is the most important thing, and i simply enjoy reading kataev. blood and everything else. i wanted to unravel, or at least try to somehow comprehend his sharp plot life, he was both red and white, he was almost shot in the basement of the odessa cheka, on the other hand hanging spawn. this is a whole story for the development of literature. he gave way constantly to the young without him there would not have been many names in literature, as all this was, and i want to say that this book continues, because new amazing documents are emerging. i think that there will be a re-release, because, for example, the protocol was opened. interrogations e, and it turned out that at the same time when he was sitting, that's where i was expecting to be shot, his friend

eduard bagritsky poet was arrested, to whom kataev , in general, gave a ticket to literature, then there he dragged him to moscow and began to drive him through magazines and made him a famous poet. well, in general, a lot of important interesting ones. hmm, and not here, yes, and in this book, too, i felt like a hmm little thing. uh, just investigating. and there are many, uh, unique letters. and lesha, we are further there, and many others. uh, evgeny petrov's brother is there. intimate nakataeva. this theme continues kataev is an excellent writer. and for me this is the main thing, but it is also a person. e, who gave life, by the way, to the generation of young twenty-year-olds who then came to youth. and here i want to trust his daughter evgenia, that same zhenya from the seven-flowered flower, who says that dad would be satisfied with the life of today's youth

, it was already kataev in life later, but still i would like to return. that's what is commonly called the odessa school, because after all, odessa, uh, the tenth twenties. ah, the levantines. this is such a gribnikov school. well, we remember shklovsky wrote orlovsky articles about this, viktor borisovichsky wrote about this, but this is babel , of course, this is kataev or petrov is semyon lipkin, for example, of course, the eleventh year. yes, he was not from this company, they communicated erotically, then, well, they gave a cafe. appreciated the aesthetics of an absolutely brilliant poet, and only that is, she was either far-mountainous, forestry, if this is the whole. both olesha and yuri karlovich olesha of course, yes, it should also be called here as, but i must say that for me kataev is such an original

successor to bunin's line. uh-huh and he is perceived by me as a student of bunin, and here i would actually name nabokov for me kataev and nabokov are, in fact, such rivals students of ivan alekseevich unexpectedly, because bunin was also in odessa, we know that it was the odessa period. you connected with this kayannye days, then gave some impetus to literary, but instructed and in the same way the young nabokov, he studied with him, wrote letters to him, sent his first things. and it must be said that they have developed an aesthetic line with bizarre trajectories. this aesthetic was the main thing for them and it was interesting how they treated each other, but, at least for kataev, nabokov was a writer. it's clear. this curious judgment. really. i think they are rewriting the book. i may even have expanded the topic of kataev nabokov, this is scary , or you are worthy of a separate, for example , literary analysis, when i teach students, at the moscow art theater school, which

i really love as an actor, not a philologist, of course. uh, so i propose to divide them into nabokovites and yeseninists in no way, without opposing the two geniuses of russian literature. i adore yesenin on the side, but still, uh, in a sense, these are poles, either life, as such, nature, yes, or such an intoxication with beauty nabokov wrote that he hates a person who enters the forest and does not know the name of each grass, and so on. this is, uh, an addition to the southern fullness. heat aesthetic vision is very important. it seems to me, yes, why do you say? look, and you are investigators in the sense that hmm , when the first edition of the book appeared, i heard that well, it’s in vain that so many pages are devoted to kataev, because he, like so many authors, is reduced to a formula. yes kataev is the author of the story the sail turns white lonely. come on, this is the trend of the regiment of soviet

economy soviet canon. and there is, uh , the iron door, and then there is magnificent mavistian prose, that is, uh, maybe, perhaps, better than his prose, which he wrote in the slope of his life. that is it explain this term. but it means bad, yes bad. uh, well actually the proportion shift. it's great. it was prose that did not fit into any norms more than socialism and it was some wild, free magnificent prose. this is a holy well with herbs already written by diamond vertor i recommend my crown to everyone. and now i'm writing a book about another writer. uh-huh, but yuri pavlovich zakove, that is, this biographical line has blown away for you. and yuri pavlovich is an absolute genius. i mean, i'm so glad to hear that from you. i myself am different, but there is also something related and, uh, this is related, i will name the password.

bunin hmm it is interesting that just kataev and the cossack also had a certain line of rivalry, rolling into the future extremely generous to any other gift, here he was alert and a little tense, sensing, in fact, just like i think, and nabokov kataev, sensing his rivals, because he was highly valued. remember this judgment dear our viewers. it's boldly nabokov valentina skate. i saw an opponent. not all of you will agree. i will think about it here is a hypothesis. this is of course a theorem, but an opponent on the basis of aesthetic dominance. yes, they are of public effect are very often perceived as by no means stems. shmyta, in general, yes, yes, but this is an ubiquitous recluse. e. this is a man who miraculously escaped execution, e went through wars and ultimately was so soviet american, because in the twenties they

stormed the heights of life. yes, yes, these guys, and , of course, it was important for them there, even the gudok newspaper is good to live cheerfully, and bulgakov, by the way, is in the same company, kazakov is so lonely. unfortunately the voice. forgotten absolutely transparency is it's just probably the best storyteller. uh, the second half of the 20th century in the snow and wept bitterly, of course, an absolute classic. it's like garshin's stories, e, the next red color of flowers. you read it and re-read it and you don't feel. what you read, because you get right there, and you find yourself inside. it 's a transparent river that carries you. well, it doesn't interfere with writing prose, of course, but i would like to return a little more to the theme of the youth of the magazine and young literature. you've already talked about it. this is very correct. this is young prose, young literature. all this

she was cherished. kataev of course there are axions. yes, this is a wonderful thing. ok then. and uh, here is the current youth, you also started talking about it. you are the editor-in-chief magazine of youth, and that in itself is very cool that the magazine exists, because not all magazines have survived. this is our sadness. this is our sadness. soon the pain of all russian literature. this is a pain, but in fact , everything must be done to ensure that this truly national treasure lives on. uh huh, actually. here through then write how much the association i headed about it. now i have begun to do a lot in order to somehow support the leading fat people, because this is real. with taste this combination very different wonderful genres, and nowhere else. how exactly inside the tolstoy magazine. and it's not archaic. this is an opportunity to publish and speak for good

authors of various generations of unknowns. uh, maybe oleg grigor, chukhontsev or alexandrovich kushnar, who, over 80, will write several poems, and they come to the magazine, but the world. eh, znamya is very young, and oleg grigorievich is also our beautifully young authors, who are now thinking where they should go there with a story with a literary-critical text. here now there is a wonderful critic from the city of kamyshin , volgograd region, ivan rodion ivan rodionova, a regular contributor to the journal youth man, cleverly and subtly brilliant interprets modern literature is less important, yes. because everything is immediately available on the internet. yes, youth gives its space to different writers. we have a lot of famous and successful writers, but at the same time it is very important that the lion's share is a writer.

the new one is the generation of twenty-year-old regions, which is very important and i am glad that indeed, many very noticeable interesting ones have appeared. uh, original brand new writers. well, i just read ekaterina manuela hmm perfectly. e, vera bogdanova in my opinion, this is very interesting already known. yes , this fame arises very quickly and rapidly from the debut. i do not think that it spoils the authors, as a rule. on the contrary, it gives some impulses to continue, if this is an example for others, who wants to write, uh, who has such a need, start trying yourself no, restrictions. no, obstacles, please, it's very cool and it seems. that the creative spirit is something that is extremely important for society, well, for society and the society of the nation, for the ethnos, as you like, so that there is this, e, creative environment. this is right. eh, of course, there is no doubt about it, but in

thick magazines - this is the authority that lasts. eh, well, for a century and a half , maybe even more, it was the main one in russian literature, because the book followed the magazine, always the person who wanted to take place in literature followed the magazine. yes, as if dostoevsky or goncharov with his farmers ' novels about this speech continues and it is important for me, for example, that he wrote himself a story e before, for example, a collection came out. i give stories to thick magazines. so you mentioned the association of, uh, writers and publishers that you would lead and hmm , here again there was e skepticism. that's what the idea was, after all, how not to unify the forces itself, but to support the fact that after the collapse of the union of soviet writers , several organizations were formed, but after 30 years, tearing all kinds of dry thieves

direction, there was an understanding that there is something very important that can be described as a common cause, because you need to support older writers, the needy need to support the young, you need to generally help the writer. as a result, we managed to create some over structure. uh, each individual organization, entered remains independently entered all the largest chinese organizations for the following writers of the ussr and in. the creative council of the association included , uh, wonderful writers who do not fully identify themselves with any union. this also needs to be understood, this is great, because this is not a bureaucratic, but a living thing and a real writer. in a certain sense , a loner and we have writers of different generational worldviews. but there is something that manages to be done for them - these are trips

of writers around the country throughout russia - these are workshops for writers. that said, it's a creative residence. that is, a lady of creativity, when a writer can say, i would like to live here and write with this far eastern air, take a walk to write. and this is support for thick magazines. this is support for national literature and translations. and now we will have travels of writers to book fairs in the cis, which is also very important and great. in general, it’s important, the dialogue of culture is very important to set up and establish this communication. hmm well, children’s centers, by the way, saying koroleva’s artery, they called it yes in literature, a and well , i would like to say separately that the profile of criticism is the center aspire, the association of the writer of publishers of russia - this is the house of the rostovs, the legendary house of the rostovs in moscow on povarskaya street, where she was on the street literally every theft. uh,

all sorts of literary meetings are open and free for everyone. and that's it. this. i think it is an important and noble task. well, here we are, dear, our viewers went through such a very wide circle, because no one will be visiting sergey shagunov, and sergey sherburgunov , we also talked about how a writer can and should write about personal will that he perceives e in his creative solitude, and ended the conversation about the writer who organizes the process of literary making. uh, a lot for everything else, this is, uh, sergey shergunov and i. with dark pleasure, i thank you sergey alexandrovich for this conversation and i am sure that we will meet with you more than once. thank you very much. thanks for support. so our

dear viewers. it was a literary trick. uh, dmitry baka podcast is called. let them not speak. let them read today's issue. we spoke with the wonderful writer sergei shergunov, and together with sergei we tell you to read, i subscribe with pleasure. saw right we train left when i met you, said goodbye to the soul and was right , we don’t feel pain, i don’t feel pain, but that i insensibly you were right. you're better than them

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