such a person is a writer, not an observer , not a feeler, but a writer. yes , this is the main thing, that is, no, nothing like that before recording. uh, you have gutters. i remember your story, a very old siberian one. and we will tell you, our dear interlocutors, what connects us with the siberian city, kemerovo. i remember the story of zhenya grishkovets, very young, but now young, but nevertheless a man who tells me a well, here i go, i pass the trolley bus stop and see how people are standing. i have already died here. i never i see how people stand. i go and think if the trolleybus will come. at this time -30 to writing, i had to come, e, i've been doing art all the time. i understand that from very early childhood. i would like to do art. i didn't know what it was, i had no idea. i really wanted to. well, i guess i didn't know. yes, because art is decomposed. e. if you want

to go to a music school, go to an art school and go to the theater, i wanted to, uh, express my feelings in words. i remember him something was 9 years old. i was sitting on the beach on the sea of ​​azov and put down a tin can and threw pebbles at it, and i met some one or the fifth pebble hit and was very happy, and then i thought. how did you happen to me? i remember it, where is my how you happened to me, what i got. i understand. i just realized that when i pick up a stone, i instantly evaluate its weight and size. uh, i m-m somehow calculate the distance to this object that i want to hit the force of the throw, its trajectory, i hit me. i'm so complex. i realized that i miracle. what am i, a wonderfully arranged being?

and then i wanted to tell about it, but only in this way to explain, to the same parents , that i am a miracle or grandmothers, so that it also got into her, so that these were the exact words, but i couldn’t find the words, but i really wanted to uh-huh, but it as if, it turns out, by itself. yes? art is something that has not been created, but it is alive, but of course. you aim it the same way. yes, then you get that no and this is the desire to find the exact words in order to tell another person about how i felt the fear of the infinity , the incomprehensibility of death at a very young age, and also could not help but decide. i wanted this all the time, i remember that i constantly, but i did not believe that i could write a book or write anything at all. i loved reading so much, just like a little boy. you didn't have to be told what to read. i started reading, let's remember, from the age of 11 at 12:00 pm

, fantasy books, of course, dusty. it was fashionable. i wasn't independent anymore, after all, they already were. what years were those seventies, seventies late seventies the second half of the seventies. i fell into the hands of jack london just in time i fell into the hands of fielding just in time, what a far distance, fielding, fantasy, and injection, fantasy was not fantasy for long, well, at least belyaevsky is not so much less. i simply could not read the strugatskys. it seems to me that it is very badly written about adventures and some stanzas of phlemmas, of course, but what would be interesting would be

to tell a little of his story. yes, of course, it's wonderful very quickly gone and come. this is a sharp feeling. this one of the world, i understood very well why, then why, it captures me so completely and completely, because my grandmother read to me for a very long time, and it completely suited me. i once i started reading on my own. the first thing i realized was that when my grandmother was reading, all the characters who spoke in the book spoke in their grandmother's voice. here, as in a fairy tale, where is the wolf. and also, uh, when

there is in a book, the author is the narrator, when you read the letter i who does it sound in your head this is the only art form where you can feel. in the first person from the first person with it , everything else is third person. well, going back to the fact that i wanted to do art, but i didn’t know how. what i didn’t like the theater, i didn’t know, didn’t understand anything . perry in ballet, he simply didn’t have the opportunity to get acquainted with it, loss. no. well, what a black and white tv, well, of course, yes, and there is some kind of record rubin uh, we had a record. i'm guessing that she makes tv. uh dreary music the monstrous sound of a symphonic agency that well how impossible it is. it was absolutely, all the more, well, how it all happened in some

distant meaningless world. uh, i wanted to do art. i remember very clearly that i felt because of this, signs of the possibility of doing art. i went, to study photography in kemerovo. there was a magnificent studio in ta-photography under the guidance of gulyuk vladimir lavrentievich. there was a club of those people to whom he gave books, which he gave music and talk and not. i was absolutely happy there, well, analog photography, where, of course, with a tank i turned out to be extremely untalented for this, well , just not at all. i would have made a good choice of choosing photographs for the exhibition, even as one ivanovich suggested to me to look at and evaluate some. uh, i had a good sense of composition. i understood that i could, at the level of the negative, select from the film those frames that i had. uh, they had some meaning, but i myself couldn’t take a picture, damn it, forever. i will remember the

words that he said to me, e my teacher in photography. he said he was very angry. he knew that i was not stupid. and why don't you you can why can't you look out the window, what's in the window? tell me what's in the window, wait what's in the window and there's a landscape in the window. he says there's not a damn thing like that in the window of life, but i'll take a picture of her to make a landscape. this is a great idea. i repeat the phrase all the time. pasternak for long. i am very fast. this means that we stop recognizing reality, as if it appears before us in some special dimension, we see some kind of distance. here is what she seemed to us until this second and, uh, this second we try to name the difference, it turns out art. someone, probably, such as i get into a jar, like a goalkeeper with a penalty kick, like peter's, hanky, looks like he flew into a jar, no art. no art appears in how i can tell about how i got there. well, what about

morality with knowledge. well, it's art. it is, as if mentally allowing uh, to preach some reasonable convenient eternal. no, i just don't care at all. yes, you don't think so. i think so, but people often think that art is about how to pass on to another, well, some important thought for yourself the thought of a kinder god of death from you, at least in this presentation, it turns out that this is such a technology of keeping up with life , a technology of keeping up with what is a mystery. and what do i not understand? well, well, there is not inserted no uh, great scientific moral or some other content. i can do anything . describe yes, of course, how weeds grow, uh. this man, dear our interlocutors, depicted more than 30 years ago how the weeds of the earth grow? why did they say

were there guardians like that? for what? is this false art? well, i was involved then. then i became interested in true art. still , there was some kind of fracture, there was some kind of click. yes , and the beginning of something professional, and i almost remember it, it was already after the fleet or before the fleet. it was after the fleet. of course well , no to before the fleet. er, that is the first cosmos i enjoyed reading. e and enjoyed the fact that he tried to write poetry, which i thought i succeeded. well, after serving three years in the navy. i realized that i have i got bad bad poems, and it was terrible that i remember them. here i couldn't. that is to say, forget. yes, you can’t forget, well, it’s impossible for everyone forever. i haven't felt on my own in art with everything, yet. we practiced punts and did this pantomime. although we did. yes, as

it was older than me by a year. eh? it was amazing on the hike. yes, in the eighty-ninth year we became laureates of the pantomime festival in riga, the last all-union festival, because lithuanian , latvian and estonian groups participated, where i was. well, in fact, pantomime burli is most of all there, and then two people from kemerovo come and show a completely unusual technique, because we actually invented it. we did not have any textbooks and examples. we didn’t have you, which is the denial of some pre- given technologies. i will reveal my secret sin to you. i have always been. uh, very surprised when you spoke, because with your body you could show anything without any words. yes, and it seemed that nothing more was needed, but you always did what gives the most material resistance. no. no, i was just sure that i was not allowed on stage. i wanted to go on stage. i wanted to speak, but it's impossible as everyone thinks, well, it's impossible, because

i was sure that here is hmm my speech impediment is a map. vost won't let me go on stage. this is impossible. this is contrary to everyone. well, canon, although i didn’t know any canons either. and the teacher who taught us pantomy herself invented some kind of technique for herself, because it was kemerovo it was the city of kemerovo and everything was so we all reinventing the wheel, and the invention of the wheel is wonderful, and then you invent the wheel. you go to moscow with him and show him your bike. everyone says bravo great bike and also says, and look here, too, and they show 15-150.000 bicycles, but with you it was not like that and it was exactly like that and there was a clutch in the theater legendary in the theater. it was not even on the stage, somewhere there the arrival of the arrival of moscow was even earlier with the theater. we arrived we showed the performance it was quiet quietly, let's put aside my last performances. after that, i couldn't work anymore. hmm

, they showed him here, er, in moscow, er, in the theater near stanislavsky's house, and it came. uh, a lot of young people. e critics and everyone liked it, but i realized that it did not impress. as most often happens to a provincial man in such a situation, he is horrified by what he has invented. in general , a universal thing, that is, he invented the bicycle scary, toiling his own confined spaces. he is in his laboratory. here it is in there in his provincial town. he invented the wheel and found out that he invented already invented. and what happens next, he comes back and dies, and another way is to be glad that you, uh, don’t know anything , uh, invented a universal thing that has been inventing for a long time and it, in principle, goes, but after that you need to draw conclusions. well, no way for

everyone there, when there is a 3d game graphics all that, but you really get into the ship or you fly upstairs, that's right. feel like i can't even talk. i just have tears, damn it, evgeny vladimirovna constantly needs to to stop the operation to prepare the descent, it takes time. today was the exam passed perfectly, now let's move on. where can i buy a dreamtalion in the country or in the battery bar every 30 minutes, the winnings are instantly credited to everyone at my expense? download the national lottery app and play on very special terms. does he personally each smartphone. here you don't have spain but at the delicious point spain is a juicy barcelona burger, cheese bun and tomato

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for only 39 rubles. premiere on football with denis kazansky on sunday at the first in the big game big bookmaker wenline general partner of the russian premier league well we're back, uh, to our conversation. this is a flab podcast. i'm dmitry bak, i'm hosting a literary podcast. let them talk, let them read and today our guest is the writer yevgeny grishkovets yevgeny grishkovets

this quote from him did not perish. yes, he did not return. e in kemerovo e, although in this city, it seems that you love and his fate has returned. and it seems that yes, and he returned, of course, then he returned for another 2 years and worked there. yes, yes, and then he left. i love him too. well , let's continue uh, after this interlude, which we usually have u in the middle of the program this time as well. i will read a poem like a modernist, which is named after a surname, a biologist lamarck. this is a famous poem, which of course you know, maybe you do too. you know, dear listeners. uh, and this is a rare case when poetry, well, replaces science, or it speaks to science. and he speaks a very clear thought, the varnish said that every creature was immediately created by the lord as it should be, it does not develop anywhere else, under any material influences, if you have a big nose, a bird gives a finch, there hatching nuts

with small noses, they die, as we are taught charles darwin, by the way, a religious person. yes, here is lamarck rejected by soviet science in a school that was not studied, only mentioned. he said that in each in its place and in fact it is my god. this is how we see not the world, but our own vision. we do not see, but infrared rays e we hear not the sound of our own hearing aid. that's right, the bat sees differently, and the hare sees ahead. there , the world turns its head, not as we see it with our senses lamarck. osip is there. there lived an old man, as shy as a boy, a clumsy, timid patriarch who, for the honor of nature, was a swordsman. well, of course, fiery lamarck, if everything is alive only a blot for a short escheat day on

the movable ladder of lamarck. i will take the last step to the ringworms, i will go down to the barnacles, rustling among the lizards and snakes along the elastic ladders of luck, i will shrink, i will disappear, like a proteus horn mantle i will put on from hot blood, i will refuse the model with suction cups and curl into the foam of the ocean, we have passed the ranks of insects with bulk with glasses of eyes he said nature is all in the faults of vision. no, you see for the last time. he said quite full-bodied, and you loved mozart in vain , deafness comes, spidery. here failure stronger than our strength, and nature retreated from us

as if she did not need us and the longitudinal brain. she sheathed the dark scabbard and the drawbridge like a sword. she forgot to drop late for those with the green grave. red breath of flexible laughter , this art or science is very difficult to say and very difficult to say speaking, yevgeny grishkovets, after all, what does he produce? i think this is life. i think it's, well, kind of peeking out in the life of different facets of your art, because it's stage art. this literary art is musical art. you call yourself a writer. that is, on the basis of what you want in the word. this i can say why i insist on this, because, of course, i am not a musician at all. i'm not capable of making music. i do not see her. i don't have my music. i don't know her, i can

talk to the music. well, for this i need ready-made music, that is, in general, i am a reciter. in this sense, there is enu music that another person provides me. i am not a musician. i hmm on stage reproduce me written text. it is such a written text that can exist only in form. the performance that i myself perform, and she became convinced that i do not do any solo performances. i have created a theater in which the author's text can exist . only in this way, and here the author's performance is obligatory. uh-huh this is not a one-man show that can be passed to each other. this is the only one of its kind. e in case. well, such an author's performance has always been a mystery to me, but my favorite thing at the same time. i don't i hide. you probably know this, and all the time it seemed to me that this is not quite the same thing, yet it is not verbatim. uh, pronounced i mean, not like a role. yes, in the theater this is a text that is born anew, or is it

every time a new edition of the text of this that is here in front of me once again. let's show this book. this is the first book called the city - this is a collection here e. well , you can say earlier, yes things, i don’t know. the first thing that was published at the request of a person, heard me on the stage from he is there was a legal publishing house. this was the book. i didn’t even have any idea how books should be designed, and this book was. this is how the text is clearly published , i can say what it is here. here is the text of the performance at the same time or at the same time. it is about 30 percent longer than the text of the literary performance, it is longer than the one that is pronounced here, which is published much longer, and something is swallowed there. something seems to be being told. you have movement. you have an opportunity. at your place

there is intonation you have the opportunity to clarify something e without offering a voluminous voluminous context. you can grab attention right away. you can collect from him and you can control the attention of the person who is in the hall. that is, you communicate with him not like an actor, who does not see the audience. yes, but he feels that i am making a theater with which i do not hide the fact that in front of me is the viewer , relatively speaking, a mobile phone call or the fall of some object or something else, i will certainly react. because i hear it, can i i'll tell you a terrible story. here i am sitting, whether it was the center on the passionate, or else, maybe the school of the modern play, i don’t remember somewhere over there, uh, it was hard to get in, i got in and i’m sitting somewhere close to the stage, but like this i’m sitting straight on the floor, and i’m terribly choking with a cough, and i carefully take out a lollipop,

which is against coughing, and you don’t see evgeny grishkovets who is standing on the stage, i don’t see it at all. who is that blackness talking. well, unfold your candy, finally, he tells me to say it like that. zhenya it's me it's more it's funny because a person trying in the theater try to be inconspicuous. it means candy slowly loudly. well, well, the main thing is that slow seems to give slowness. here is a smaller sounding quick easy to do or when young ladies or ladies, and today here is a handbag in the theater. here it does it slowly. to once and for all, it's funny how a person tries. it's okay, uh, returning to the text, and the text reads. this is a completely different text than what i pronounce on stage. i see that the other is not in the sense of a comma. in

sense, as it were, of its functionality, or what? yes, your style. ah this simply literature he, and there monologue. this is in the form in which i perform it on stage in another form this text cannot exist, as it is impossible to write it down, but it is impossible to hear anything. e from vysotsky's texts, it's simply impossible to read them. if you don't know how, you haven't heard how he does it. i say all the time that i'm scared with acting poetry reading. uh, because the actor has to somehow drag the blanket over himself. yes, the poem is ordinary, it does not need in any performers, yes, or only you copyright. yes, this is it, it's all there. uh, there were these very dude poets, not me, it was unbearable for me. well, i just couldn't hear it. uh uh, adorable was akhmadulina reading it so that i couldn't hear it. just for me. it was redundant, yes. it was strange, extra very unhealthy. uh

-huh well, from the point of view of some kind of norm , today yuryevsky read poetry, so yeah. what i wanted to say, please don't read this one at all. give him all the elements, just yursky yes, because yursky read amazing things. i do not know how to read poetry is never the elements. here, when you pronounce your text, this is a text that lives. there is also a pronunciation. yes, i say pronounce it quickly. but then this text is still , as it were, here. so, when reading there, i should know how you play it or not? a lot of people will not read for the reason that they saw me on stage and remember how i say it, they talk and we hear your voice. here we are or we listen to your voice hinders. this results in inseparability. e

of the author from his own work in the role of andrei rublev. yes, the clown is walking there, lead. ah. no, not the same, not the same , no, not at all, uh, when one reads. um, well , prose, you know, it's not a monologue that goes in the first person, where i'm a character who says something, but this is a book. well a book it should sound in your own voice, because it is reading, and the one who listens to you. it must be with nature, let's call the performance started there at eight nine o'clock. yes, to count on those people who are after work. yes, he must, well, how to empathize with understanding, yes , he must be able to do it whenever possible. well, you must have some kind of education, uh. k-circle of the corporate address, to which the social group addresses it, this is not a lover, as they said in

the nineties, for example, yes, it may well be a person with a criminal past. just like at least not a fool. and at least e, who tried to part with him. mm understands this new life. here we are talking about morality. yes, that is, the art of a sinner so that a person tries to part with the criminal past, when there was this very tough period. this is the fashion for me, when at my performances in moscow and st. petersburg, in principle, this was not in moscow, st. petersburg. many fashionable characters came. here are these strange people there are 2,000 people who started something there. yes the beginning of the zero years. so many of these came, they sat. they didn’t understand at all, didn’t disappear anywhere, what is it? according to which fleet about which friends about what kind of work there , i don’t know about some. uh, what kind of children about what kind of family is there? well, that's what this person is talking about, i'll interrupt you again.

i will not forget your story, there was some kind of creative meeting, maybe even at the russian state humanitarian university at the university where i served, if already with joy, where you told how in brazil e you counted a dog and sounded in your retelling. so here i am saying, that is, you are saying that this is a pause, the translator is translating everyone is laughing or somehow i don’t know, how do you react, i say, translate the reaction, i say, translation, and it means that there is a famous scene for a month, when the boys don’t want to go to school, either mom, or grandmother opens the door, and it’s winter, well, eight or seven in the morning it’s cold, god, how embarrassing. well, here is the russian man. well, he somehow understood, anyway. yes, this brazilian man is russian there. in the transformation , brazilian people understood that, uh, that the boy was not well, because he did not want to go to school. and what is cold for a brazilian check? i don't know, maybe he 15°, uh yes, it's already cold. yes, of course, this

needs to be changed. it would have to be such emotions, and not entourage . you have a lot of entourage of some such headsets with details, you need to work carefully, but you can never talk. uh, for example, there was definitely some kind of air temperature at that time. well, it's like a status of some kind. yes, there was no temperature or how , uh, where exactly did this happen and when. hmm , that is, that it happened there, uh, in the year 1981, uh, in the city of kemerovo and the frost, it was minus eight, yes, thirty-eight 45 sometimes children finished school, it was closed, right? jen, here's another story. it seemed to me that just about that moment, about which you just said that some sort of some people come, yes , which, well, that's something cool. yes, they should be offered something cool exclusive and

see a person who is one of many. yes , he says i am one of you. i am the same as you, i am one of you, i am no different from you , it is this that interests you, and not that i am cool and sophisticated and so on, but it seemed to me that he was beyond some border. you may have stopped being one of those people. no, i don't think i know what happened, we moved to kaliningrad as adults . i don't see anything else. there are no changes. yes , i do not count quickly. uh, well, here's the paper farewell to paper. why help? this is true? this is exactly the person that one of us from all uh-huh this is the experience of any normal person of our age it will also this performance will be interesting, so and this is also one of the people who are now

20, who enthusiastically give themselves to digital technologies. let's talk about the end, just about reading our podcast reading, and it is not by chance that evgeny grishkovets called himself a writer. it's important that's what happens with reading. e forgiveness with paper - what year is it 10 years ago? yes, it's 12-13 something like this, yes, and then it probably wasn't like that. acute. now it's not something that is acute, but just already even the funeral service. uh what 's going on now in itself reading skills the process of reading love is generally some kind of test. man man has never in history read so much as he is now reading. well, that is, i never wrote so many signs, and not every day people wrote something, every day people even wrote some kind of note to me. and now they write a lot read a lot of different nonsense and write a lot

of all sorts of nonsense, well, in messages, and after that they cannot read these same letters, but only e in the performance of great literature hmm and the magnificence is different it should not be read. and it must be read, but it cannot be understood . no, what to understand? i do not understand what to understand the table is thick. i think it's art in general. uh, this is the last such stubborn touchstone of impossibility to tech. yes, everything, well, speed up the connection. there you need to read comfortably the way you read. eh, you need to read the way you tend to. with what kind of rhythm are you characteristic of you are no longer characteristic of the rhythm, if it has already grown in this all without you, you are deprived, how to learn it? how to come a lot? well, how to meet your literature, your book, which will reveal to you that reading is the highest pleasure, which cannot be compared with anything. and

in no case should this be replaced by an audiobook, because it will immediately be all this screen, well, a screen, all the more so to read the text. you can say anywhere. it's not me, i really say, in general i think that yes, the book, of course, is a more perfect medium, but from a computer and from anyone, even from a phone. you are reading the text. you are reading, mmm. you still consider the original, because you read the text, but reading is irreplaceable. and now it's then because the book has become a text, it has become so easily accessible, and it is in your tablet , a monstrous uh, people read classes. uh, several books at the same time glut overproduction, and they never finish reading a single book to the end of course and why ah? and you already know what happens next. i really liked the phrase theodoradona is not unknown. yes , he says that in order to listen to music, you must first get to the place where it is performed. that is, you need

to make some effort, of course i say, what if a person left the house came to the bookstore chose a book and brought it home. uh, and even if the book turned out to be difficult or painful for him this time , or untimely, there is still a high probability that he will finish reading it to the end. and if he does not leave the house, in 1 second he did not like it, he downloaded 100 books to himself . it's great that you can't finish reading any of them, because he has no respect for this. he made no effort. here are the same efforts, yes, about which they speak adornably. and uh, actually of our second are fighting a bunch of carriers. yes , there is always the same amount in a day, but they want to parallel all this by inserting headphones into our ears. my god, some other things that are from reading reading. this is the highest form of achieving art, that is, the highest

form of comprehension of art, literature. in general, this is the highest form of the art of reading. this is the one that cannot be combined with other men's activities, you can't soar your legs in a basin, you can't watch tv without latching the phone. yes, this is not important. even at this moment, admire the landscape, even the most wonderful. if you read, if you count, if the landscape is only not present in the work that you are reading, then this is the landscape that arises in you, but it arises from letters from signs. this is a wonderful formulation by evgeniy varelievich. grishkovets which testifies right at the topic of our podcast, because nothing can replace reading, reading makes us human, reading is the original art, like poetry, which existed before all other arts and and i am very grateful to you for e. e this conversation because a lot of hmm from my jingles verbal their slogans. i say, for example, that you can read anything you like in cuneiform pyruses, if they

are available to you, it doesn’t matter, it’s important, nothing like uh, this perfectly explains to many why literature is the highest form of art. everyone wants to see the original. the original is either in the museum, and the picture, or it is somewhere in the philharmonic, where you still have to get on monday to monday. the museum is not open. they work at night and don't let you in. and you want to see it at night and you, and you need to see the picture, it’s impossible to see it, you take this dear one of yours and at the same time, even if the text is written on toilet paper. it's still great for them. uh, read uh, read literature evgeniy grishkortsa. i sincerely thank evgeniy says shkavets writer for this conversation. thanks, see you on our podcast. well, to you

, our dear interlocutors. i, as always, from the same unceasing pathos from the same intonation, i say, read with pleasure, dear friends. hello dear friends on the air of the first channel podcast melodies of my life today we have a guest of the people's artist of russia magnificent musician and my great friend and storyteller igor butman igor well , in fact, melodies are what makes our life magical and through them when you need to remember something. we remember everything down to the smallest detail, so i will only give

modest, leading questions, because i know everyone that the charm of a conversation with a friend. it speaks for itself today only about you, my dear so the melody of childhood. well, that's all that is connected, it is clear that she is not alone, but uh just to e thanks to this melody option to remember, in general, how from the moment when you remember yourself? you know, i was probably only, well, about two years, when i constantly listened to the same song, i found this record , put it on the old ruler, belarus there was both a receiver and a record player and there was a song called marina marina marina they even hid this record from me, my grandmother hid it, but i still found it. i'm some kind of italian, he also has such a surname, but i remembered the fate of the grenade author. but you know, there could be someone from the south of slavs, remember?