[000:00:00;00] this is a podcast of the tunes of my life on the first i am valery syutkin my friend was with you, people's artist of russia igor mikhailovich butman thank you mikhail hello, you are watching the podcast triggers and its leading psychologist, psychotherapist tatyana krasnovskaya is with you, beautiful svetlana is visiting today. what are we going to talk about? hello, let's talk. about my hypertrophied maternal love

, even you yourself evaluate it this way, to be honest . yes, i appreciate it. this is how i see and feel svetlana tell me, please, for i started a little about myself. how old are you? i am 50 years old. yeah, i live in moscow and i'm a mother to my son. now it will be 30 years this summer. yes, you live together. and now it's been a year. we don't live together before we lived together. yes, he got married very early at 17 years old. you lived with his wife, didn't you? the son of his wife and i lived together for 12 years, svetlana or maybe a very great love that could survive everything or i so wanted my son to be so happy that for everything else, probably, i can be everything that concerned i didn't pay attention to myself. okay, let's

get back to the request. how do you feel? why they called their relationship with their son so defined as my hypertrophied love, which is more interesting in life and it scared me very much now. but because, unfortunately, the son divorced his wife. in the fall, he left, and now he lives his happy life. he is an adult self-sufficient. and i realized that in general there is nothing for me in my life, yes, because all these years. well, how old was he for 30 years, almost i lived only to be a mother. to me liked it so much. this is a role. i loved being a mom so much that i guess everything else about me. i don't even know what it's like to not be a mom.

write about what it's like to be a mom. it's all the time to be anxious. it's been taken care of all the time. it’s all the time to think about what else i can do so that my son is happy, joyful, that everything is fine with him, so that, god forbid, he is not upset, upset. it will be very hard for me, so that with you i will be 10 times more upset. it seems to me that your description of svetlana being a mother, and slowed down in its development, because you describe what it is like to be a mother and a child. you can be the mother of a child, he says the mother of a teenager, he says the mother of an adult man, and these are different mothers, and everything seems to be different there, and you describe the mother of the child who is worried to take care of. there are no words, you are right.

but it's true, why can't i see that my son is an adult self-sufficient person, why? i don't want to see it? well, because while he is a child, you have a growing hope that he needs you, and an act because nothing there is no other, then this, in fact. the only place where you can realize yourself, i would like to say, as a person, but not as a person. yes, but at least you can fulfill yourself. yes, this identity. i am the mother of a small child. well, as it were, it quite wins back your needs to be needed. svetlana, you said that as if in your life there is nothing else but your son, but is it really you who work? what does your social life look like? yes i'm working. i love my job very much. and i probably have social life. i have girlfriends. i have friends. hmm i also have a mother,

whom i also take care of and take care of her like my son. and you are successful in your work in what you do. which one can you rate? uh huh, what's the job? what are you doing? i work for a large publishing house and i'm in charge of the travel trip department. yeah, i already have a fairly high position you occupy. yes, i really love my job. and as if it would be difficult then to say that there is nothing else, other supports. do you have another social life. is it true, maybe i meant that i don't see myself as another woman? yes, maybe, i'm realized as a mother, as a person. tell us in general about your decision to become a mother, you were 20 19. yes, in fact, it turns out that i was 21 years old. yes, i never wanted to have children and, well, somehow at the age of 21. i did not want to have children to give so, well

, yes, they did not want to have them after 21:00. well, i guess i didn't have that desire. for some reason. i don't know even it's difficult now, unfortunately i had a tragic one. experience i have the first son died. in what age and it was a very difficult period. i was very worried, and then let's talk about this child. tell this pregnancy and the decision to become a mother for the first time. you know , i can’t say that it was some kind of conscious choice of pregnancy. yes, there was a pregnancy. i was married. i loved my husband and had sex with him necessarily well. as a result, children are born. let's look straight ahead. and you love having

sex. and at some point you will know that you are pregnant. here, what is this moment happening. i decide to keep this child. that is, you still have the idea of ​​leaving not leaving. do you somehow live with her or do you discuss it with someone? with my mother, my mother, of course, was in favor of me giving birth to this child, and in general, everyone wanted to. what words did mom find that made you decide that too? remember, i want this child, i was not sure at that moment that i wanted to live with this man, and therefore all pregnancies. i had such a state that i don’t want this child, i’m afraid to give birth, because how next, then will go. my life it will be like already for me. like some.

well, spoiled, or something, fate, that's how i go on, apparently, i already wanted to divorce my husband, and i was afraid to give birth to this child uh-huh, but in these 9 months there have been no cardinal changes in relations with these men, i understand then why didn't you, for example, have an abortion, after all. why did you listen to your mother? she said, i'll help you, i'm not worried, of course, my father and mother supported me , you express the child as a whole, yes, then the mirage and the child and unfortunately, after 12 hours he dies. what did i live, how at what moment did it happen, what did they want? i do not know it is clear that women during pregnancy there are certain changes nature so arranged. yes, a woman in the ninth month of pregnancy usually already understands that the child will be reborn in any way, and nature has arranged it in such a way that the biological processes in the body that you could

recognize or which you could evaluate also change. like the desire of this child. well, that's great, isn't it? yes? and then he is born and something happens. i don’t know, you looked at him there, but for some reason he was sick, for some reason he didn’t open up. easy for yourself. he was born at eight months old and the body weight was large and not to tell so in the hospital, and you found out that they end. well, of course, i had a tantrum and who had a great sense of guilt, how loved ones reacted, but this tragedy was great for our family. wait before we move on to the tragedy of the family. i want to understand how a woman feels lies in the box, i don’t know there with other women in labor or alone, yes, and you and your grief are not there alone, no relatives somehow. they probably support you, but 20 to 30 years ago there was no mobile communication and everything connected with it. here you are alone. you have learned that the child has passed away. he

was supposed to be in the hospital for a while. how did you deal with your grief and did you experience it or what did you do? i cried a lot or not. well, you talked to someone about it. no, you came doctors. maybe we are psychologists, that is , we also existed years ago. that is , no one helped you in any way to contain this feeling, what did you do with this feeling of guilt. they did not want this child, so it happened. you managed to forgive yourself at

some point. you watch the podcast triggers and its leading psychologist tatyana krasnovskaya is with you, and our guest is svetlana, who found the courage to sort out her relationship with the son of the death of the first child, your son was born. thank god it's fast, yes it was fast because i didn't really want a baby. now i really wanted a baby. it was simple. well, such an already obsessive idea is something

that you promised yourself. and the child was born from the same man. yes, i still found out that i , well, most likely, will no longer live with this man. we will have a very difficult relationship, so i really wanted this child. not just wanted you still want him, but just strangely tatiana asks the right question. if at this moment you promised, for example , you know an oath to yourself, i will always be there, i will always i will help everyone. and he, apparently, will be the happiest child. i generally hear this. how is that? well, it's such a good psychiatric diagnosis that describes a person's schizophrenic behaviors. well, yes, the behavior of a person

diagnosed with schizophrenia, megalomania. for example, i worked in a mental hospital where there were napoleons. there, i don't know, gorbachev. that is, there were such people there. there was one person who was not. unfortunately, but if they were there, then i'm sure, i'm sure that yes, there were the mothers of teresa maria, anyone else. well, that is any form of the best mothers. there was one man who, uh, conquered me, then still remains my idol, who every night, or rather, every morning, woke up a few minutes right here, just a few minutes before dawn. even though he didn't have a watch. he went to the window and lit matches and offered how but i asked him once what are you doing this happened right for many years. i just got there, so he was the only patient who was allowed to be together. matches,

the sun, i'm on fire. this man lit the sun. he was absolutely convinced that if he did not wake up or oversleep, then he, respectively, well, the sun would not. now it's going to be hysterical. stop. you do the same plus or minus. you, on the other hand , turn on the sun every morning so that it shines and warms your little boy, so that the rain irrigates him there, i don’t know, and so on. well, look. you are already doing this. so this is your pure water so to speak, we are not greatness well, just understand, this is not a diagnosis. well, this is such an omnipotence complex. let's to to simplify your life a little, this is the complex of the synagogue. yes, and of course, promising himself such there, yes in himself such an oath and the problem is true. what is svetlana because

being committed to the oath, you attach yourself as a woman. and why did she say that i would like to tell me how to realize her personality. no, you are being realized as a function next to this oath of logic in it. well, because personality is still a broader concept. yes, a beautiful woman, a successful woman, an educated and at the same time, with all those who initially said that this is all there is in life. and you are functionally close to that oath. but it's been there for 30 years. okay, the first 10 years. i still agree. perhaps it should have been possible, although not sure, but then the next 20 years, where you could become a happy woman of the woman you love. i don't know any woman by any astronauts. yes you chose to be true to this oath that i will always

be there, then the story it becomes. as if now i’ll say it rudely, i can’t pick up another pawn word in this game because your whole life is his. she is in order to maintain this oath to be committed to this this and as if his life, he cannot live his life, in his life it becomes not as important as the idea of ​​​​continuing this oath. obey it directly. his life. it turns out a sacrifice in the name of the life of that dead child. you make him live the life of a dead child, and therefore you idealize it from all sides, because that child died and his life can be imagined in different ways, but in essence,

if you look at your relationships, they don’t allow your own relationships to develop, yes, that is, those in which you are , they don’t allow you to become the mother of an adult man, and he essentially becomes the son of a woman, and no matter how they add up, just new stages of relationship. and it's underdeveloped. that is , it interferes with both of you. i hope that now , when he left you, he left his wife, well, as if he is just starting a period of growing up, which you will have to face, where it is important for him to face these challenges. go through those spheres that you cover with your love with your care with your attention. it is important for him to go through these difficulties , it is important for him to take care of the authorities. about my mother. well , look, there is good news that, despite this omnipotence complex, this whole story about omnipotence. he still

got out. that's for sure. it's true he got out. that is, it turns out such and such power. no, he left. your influence does not spread. actually, no. oh, it's an illusion that you can do it, but he lives his life. apart from you. i'm happy. thank you, you are already so beautiful, mother svetlana is simple. well, you can't be too good a mom, because you're too good a mom. unfortunately, it causes no less injury, but to a man, than a bad one. mom any mother, in general, the cause of all psychological problems a and mother's love. on the one hand, it is support like wings, but it is also a lasso. which does not allow a man to be a man boy, please, well, well young man. i still agree there, but still you must in me

need. there is such a concept of psychology as a good enough mother. and that's it. you say things that i somehow have to no take it take it. you will accept it. you have no other choice. and here the question is, probably, how can you act in a new way now, how can i act in a new way? how can you act? you now live with an adult man, that is, in your universe there are adult men who, in general , have nothing to do with your previously born child. grandma loves this very much. my mom is in the family straight. it turns out, yes,

such a family lived, respectively, mom dad daughter his daughter. there, the family got married and got pregnant and there were different relationships, but mostly. and in this family there was a great tradition for mothers to love their sons very much. this is such a generic program. now it’s completely respectful to her family, because my grandmother loved my father very much for her son, and she lived and laid down her life. and admired it was like this. here is a cult, yes, here is a mother, here is a real mother. my mother, she in the same way, m-m loved me older brother. and just like that, she loved us, too, everything for us

is a lot of care, a lot. guardianship is absolutely and it was also a matter of pride that like this. so we had a difficult period, very difficult, my father had heart attacks. my brother got very sick. unfortunately. and at this moment i also have a child with them yes, the child died. and here andrey is born and it is as if the sun is rising in this family. yes , because everyone got their part, well, like love, yes, and they were able to realize their own too love. uh-huh and it was very big,

really happiness, for our families. we always thought that this was some kind of salvation for our family, because andrei was born because each of us had this opportunity. this is how to love. so here it is right in the third lyceum. yes, they were born. andrey wants to say poor, because further, accordingly, all those hopes that were destroyed on him are right. yes, dad’s illness is there, the death of the child and it means to him, respectively, all this is hung and they say, look, we will all love you now. and you should be. and you should be happy. yes, and god forbid you want. whether you like it or not should be happy such violence in this sense. and of course, then i'm sure that every holiday there is a family holiday. discussed this topic is always his birthday birthday. yes, on his birthday they told that here, but here he didn’t live there and how it would have been, probably, differently, and now you understand that you it was in this way that you, in general, placed on him the

sacrifice that he had to all this time to carry let go. well, as if everyone had already played their roles. everyone has already played their part. it is enough for you to be, as tatyana said, a good enough mother, and a good enough one. mom, this is mom, who is there when necessary, but does not interfere when it is not necessary, when she is not always asked, when he seems to me, he never asked me for anything. well, here it is, because, apparently, it was like that for him and then he managed to do it. and quietly

watch what happens. i don't know how it all happened. yes, it seems to me my life and there was not much room for men, and accordingly, now it is necessary. i would just like to ask now is there a relationship or not? why? why because what's old once? what's wrong? yes, somehow this topic does not add up for me. i decided to close it three times. they didn’t get married, that three times is probably the maximum program and enough. i’m already the point. i’ll tell you to get married, you don’t have to go to get married in order to be in a relationship, you don’t have to leave. especially at

your age you are allowed to thank you because you can build relationships enough distant, but at the same time quite open, they can be there, i don’t know, guest ones, but at the same time, ah, they can be filled with love , tenderness, care there, but it’s clear that how to say the worst thing that you can do now is to get a cat instead of andrey here don't do it better. get into a relationship in that sense and enjoy your relationship more than that, kind of and watch how it will do. andrei, your task is to simply be a witness to his life. but not the springs in your life anymore. to be honest, i really hoped and hoped that i will have grandchildren and i will start to live a lot. can you take a child to an orphanage? you can call him grandson. you can name it whatever you like. you are free in this sense, that is, as soon as you free your hands from andrey, something will appear. i don't know how it

will happen, but something will appear on your task to release stop holding it. i will tell one story to the witnesses that i became i was sitting with a group of my guys with whom i came to kathmandu and before going to the mountains there. we were sitting in some cafe in the city and we we spent several days there, because we were waiting for a pass to the mountains. and in the same cafe they drank tea in the evening, and i watched such a picture at sunset, the family, the swallows had already brought out the chicks and the chicks were already the size of an adult, and in the evening they sat in the server on one wire. so there were four chicks there, and mom and dad. well, how would it be, if you are not an ornithologist, it is not clear who is mom and who is dad, yes, but by behavior it was obvious who the parents are, and who are the chicks mom and dad did a very interesting thing, they flew into a bunch

mosquitoes well, sunset. yes, they caught a mosquito , flew up on the fly, gave birth to chicks, as the parents do, little krug beat the chick with an uh wire, and this is how they made circular movements. over the course of a few days, i watched it. so they taught to fly. and feed when we arrived, well came the last day. these chicks have already flown by themselves. this is what took 4 days. this is me. i showed it to my colleagues. and i said that this, in my opinion, is the highest form of maternal love to admit it is very beautiful. i have a wonderful news, what did you say? oleg and i decided to get married. yes, you were accepted by

the new york university master's program and were given a scholarship. i understand you are huntresses.

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tinkoff app let's kill two birds with one stone light, you are so beautiful interesting, charming woman. what does not allow? let a little closer men i think distrust. what kind of danger does a man give himself? m. well, i certainly had

reasons. it's so painful and embarrassing. i probably wouldn't want to go through all this anymore. i understand that i don't know how it can be, okay. well, probably the problem is that i don't believe it's possible, okay. do not believe that everything is possible, well, what happens is good, there is a relationship where? i agree with you. relationships cannot be good, because relationships are at least. well there either change, or abandon, or die. in general, no one has a good ending. and, of course, it's probably good when you die before your partner. at least you don't suffer from the fact that he left you, there and so on. well, dead and dead.

but if a men die, you understand earlier, you a man has two bad qualities. they can be perfect, like the perfect man. he doesn't drink, he doesn't smoke, he doesn't exist. and such an average man, like me, like any other person there. he can, of course, not drink or smoke, there and so on, but if he exists, he has one problem, two two two negative qualities. first, he can always leave, and the second he will definitely die from a high degree of probability earlier than you. well, just as the statistics would agree, and therefore men cannot rely heavily on them. as if this is a fact, but at the same time, for all that, look, the problem in relationships arises when you start building them in relationships, as with andrey that is, when your partner becomes more for you than you themselves. when the life of a partner or your life as a partner becomes more than your life apart from everyone else. yes, there, and you become a hostage, right? it is not necessary to do so. probably yes, but it is

necessary to learn. here is a good start. it seems to me that 50 years is a good age for being excellent and, of course , you had reasons not to trust, but what if now you are already quite able to protect yourself and regulate this distance between yourself and your partner as comfortable how do you like this sounds very nice. sounds like wonderful. apparently i hadn't thought about it before. i have a suspicion that another factor influenced this. you see, for example, a tigress, when she dipped, she then did not let the male near her for some time. i mean, she'll fight him because she's protecting the kittens. yes, if i remember correctly, it will last somewhere

around 9 months. well, because, well, for a year now, plus or minus, as it were, kittens can somehow run away there to do something else, they feed themselves, but that's just about biological processes that occur during pregnancy lactation yes, one of which , for example , a tigress at this moment greatly increases the level of cortisol and testosterone, which makes her be more aggressive than she is in ordinary life. she will always be at this level. she will never give birth and therefore nature regulates this. and in general, if a tigress gives birth, but the cubs are taken away from her, and piglets are put in their place, then the reaction will be exactly the same. it's just that she will protect the piglets, because it is important to her. and until then. andrew was next to you. so close, obviously in many ways you protected him from other men , and it is obvious that this could not but affect your relationship with a man. this is true. well, i just assumed. suddenly it's so, and

it's true, well, sort of, but at some point , uh, as they say, i must understand that these guys are all gone. so, like, well, a tigress is a little smarter than women. well, in a sense, she understands that these cubs need to be released in order to give birth to the next one. otherwise, it's easy. well, the tigers will end. right here in it with context. just look, i'm not going to advise you in this sense to recommend. you need to urgently run to enter into this relationship. i think that the men who are watching this program now, as if seeing, in general, a beautiful, successful , self-sufficient woman. no uh problems. well , as a problem, there is understandable. but yes, yes, with a little megalomania. yes, moreover, such a caring, yes, some kind of loving such all of herself. i think it's lined up now. but this is true in another transmission. hold on svetlana on the other hand hold on. yes, this is in another transmission, as usual.

zhenya will ruin it, but here i can say that i’m sure that now people are watching men, and they’re saying, what the hell, what a woman. yeah, and suddenly glory will cover you in such a way that they will start to recognize you on the street? but be vigilant, but at the same time, be brave with everything. try this relationship just when andrei is not in your relationship andrei is nearby, but he is not in your relationship. they just discovered some other dimension in general understanding of all this. we are glad we are glad that you are leaving svetlana i am leaving simply with a different awareness of the vision and for me it is so priceless. i have never looked at it from that point of view. i was as if i was flying on some rails. i don’t understand, not visions, i really had one goal and task. here,

if only andrew was happy. well then i'll be happy automatically, i'm in general. well now you have opened it to me. eyes and i understand that really my son. he grew up so smart self-sufficient independent. somehow maybe i should just stop and stop already. maybe it’s already uncomfortable for me, somehow i can somehow, therefore, he is now already at the other end of the earth in general. or maybe it has nothing to do with you, but in the end it’s really me that you are unusually brave women, really light. thank you very much for dealing with this so sincerely, and i think andrei should be very grateful to you. hi andrey he is a very grateful

son indeed. thank you very much. thank you. well it was a podcast triggers, and you were with him, the presenters tatyana krasnovskaya, psychologist, psychotherapist, psychotherapist psychologist sergey on ourselves and we heard the wonderful story of svetlana hello, i am pilot cosmonaut anton shkaplerov this is a special edition of the podcast space stories today at my space station an amazing guest, this is an actor with whom i can speak the same professional language of space andrey merzlitin. today we will talk about cinema and space. let's have fun. i have a first question. i know that graduate technician