we will talk about the literature about the novels of the writer, doctor of philology evgeny vodolazkin. hello. evgeny germanovich. hello alexey nikolaevich i thought in this number it was already possible to say holy fool. well, by the way, since we are talking about her homelands. and i want to immediately explain that the topic was suggested by the guest. why this particular topic seems to you the most interesting is, in general, a well-known concept and it seems that you and everyone have some idea about this, but the idea is rather vague. and so i would like to in our conversation, we sort of talked in more detail about the phenomenon itself and kinship about what it is very good. we must be clear. yes, well, to do everything so that it seems to be in our country. felt

rightly understood, uh, and surrounded by, uh, care and kindness. do you think we have a lot going now? i think there's always and sort of, and uh, there are different forms of kinship. maybe we can talk about it. e in the future, but in general, her relationship is a kind of spiritual achievement and relatives. uh, there uh, some form of uh, which in different cultures is logical, uh, similar to kinship. uh, uh, there are some things in the east that seem to resemble her kinship in the west, well, let's say jester, well, something is a different institution. it's a completely different matter. this jester is an astronomically exalted person, but this person does not have any special spiritual basis. and it seems to be

this person who takes the term for this. it can be said that e is a super-legal feat, but because there is asceticism in christianity . uh, there are uh, others. uh, like holiness, but foolishness, this is the only type of holiness that is not subject. well, perhaps regulations and ugly ones, as the ancient russian texts say, run amok, because this is a kind of holiness that is embarrassed by itself, holiness that wants to hide that it is holiness and therefore behaves like holy fools . uh, very strange. he wants to escape glory from the man in this respect too. uh, when they ask, but let's say some

uh, artists hmm who arrange performances and so on, it seems to be no, it doesn't seem to be, because the holy fools are furious, slava from a person. they are searching. and these are different goals , there are different types, its natural relationship, when well, just a person, uh, with some deviations. from birth, but there are people who come to foolishness, which is very important characteristic of tribal, they almost never deform, where they were born, and where everyone knows them, they leave. well, it seems that they leave not only the world in which they lived, they leave the world in general, therefore , the transition to foolishness was often called death to the world, death to the world, despite the fact that he

he is present in the world in this, but he is present in a very strange quality, and, as it were, he is outside of something supposed in relation to this world. well, it turns out that you seem to be saying that monks are leaving the world , hermits are leaving the world, but they really are leaving people. and , as far as i understand, they seem to be running away from human glory, but obviously people and life are not running away, and it seems to be passing in front of everyone and in a sense , you can say. what is this? well, such is the spiritual theater, yes, that is, they are on stage all the time and the people who surround them. this spectators. they play some kind of role in which there is clearly a deep meaning, yes, that is, their life is filled with meaning, but what is this meaning, right? that is, it turns out that her homeland is not something that competes with the church, but as far as i understand, hardly anyone really prepares them, they hardly have mentors, hardly anyone blesses them on this path. that is , it turns out that there is some kind of innocence in this. some audacity. is this

some kind of rebellion against something or what? yes, audacity. this is what did not give birth to them in full to the extent it determines people are impudent, uh, or violent, as they say, uh, the old russian text will be their true life . it's different. these are those who are looking for some kind of opportunity to earn money. here, but there is a radio of christ, and now, uh, the church recognizes and deeply honors these brats. and what about goals and kinship? why exactly? uh, why is this an eccentric, then here it is well said in one of the tropores madness imaginary madness of the world

to rebuke and what is more important, it seems that he, as it is said in the troparion of basil the blessed under it, both laughed at the world, and at night the clouds and during the day laughed at the world. and at night, not everyone who laughs cried. and it seems that this is the one who is able to cry later, because otherwise laughter is the destroyer and this is a destructive death. and evil. if the person just laughed. for example, gogol, and this phrase, and, apparently, the world laughs through tears invisible to the world. this, if you will. a foolish phrase in the highest sense of the word, and in fact, here on this pair of laughter and tears, in part gogol

broke down, because his laughter turned out to be tears, but now, if you take the second volume of dead souls, he saw that this did not reach the heights of his laughter in strength. and that's why all this drama happened with the second volume, but gogol, who was a deeply religious person. apparently he was thinking himself. uh, directly or indirectly in this paradigm? well, kohl soon we started talking about russian literature of the 19th-20th centuries, then, of course, they are remembered, there are excellent examples of generic ones. in pushkin , first of all, yes, and in boris godunov, then probably, traces can be found, and foolishness can be found in the novels of dostoevsky e, and in the idiot and in crime and punishment, that is, it is obvious that for fyodor mikhailovich it was some kind of e. well, this one is also very important, and the human moment has a cool story

a little mistake. do not remember, it is dedicated to a real holy fool, but to ivan yakovlevich koreyshe. and there, just her kinship is played out from the other side, because, well , apparently, the shortest such was a personality, rather, contradictory. there the plot is that a certain person has three daughters and the eldest daughter cannot become pregnant, and the other two girls are marriageable. they can't get married yet, because other suitors are looking at the older one. she does not get pregnant, something is wrong with these, and then, it means, the little mother goes to give them a note, and after time, it turns out that the eldest became pregnant, and the middle one fell at her feet, that she became heavy, mother rushes to herod and it turns out that in the note she mixed up the names of e in the wrong daughter, which means to get pregnant. and that is here we see some kind of paradoxical enough moment. that's in relation to this test of kinship. yes, but he has these freaks at leskov's. eh, let's say. uh,

quarterly ryzhov, from one of the pechersk antiques. yes, these are such weirdos, and the quarterly ryzhov who hmm really behaves like a hero. e what they do irony they are shocking. they hmm throw stones at people's houses, uh, pious people. and at the houses of non -pious people, they kiss the walls. so it seems to many and there is always some kind of person who explains this or on what is the actual point, and the fact is that in the houses of pious people, demons are expelled from the house, and as spiritual practice shows

, they gather at the walls. uh, and so they seams throw stones at them, and there were no partials in people's houses. uh, the demons are inside the house, and the angels are expelled and the angels are huddled against the walls. and it seems that he comes up and kisses them and asks them not to leave this place, at least here , it seems to me that i read somewhere in some novel, there, it seems, across the river in the city of pskov yes, but really holy fools can walk in the water, well, with a certain tension of spiritual forces, in general, they can, and they repeat after their prototypes, but in fact, uh, holy fool thomas, a and a carp mmm. they partly ascend, that is, there are several herodian lives, but the main herodian life of nikolai kachanov, the novgorod saint

, he really divided e into zones of influence, novgorod, he believes that holiness and spirituality should be distributed on in general , fairly and beats those who fall on his territory. here it is on the water. they go there too. we continue with you podcast. life wonderful. my name is alexei varlamov and our guest is a writer, and a historian of literature , doctor of philology and a little holy fool evgeny vodolazkin. and here is the story about the holy fool, in which tsar ivan the terrible was not afraid, yes, is it true or is it a myth, but these are foreign sources. uh, here's the mention of this story. this is nicholasosis. aga ivan having ruined, novgorod moved to pskov

and a certain one came out to meet him. and ivan , who considered himself a pious man, although he was in general, villains and nikolai to him gives a meal. uh, a piece of grass meat. and there was a great fast and john was indignant and said, what are you giving me, lent is meat, and he tells him. and why are you meat, you are the flesh of christians, you could say that, only it seems, because anyone else would not have dared, but you can imagine what happened to him later, and ivan did not order him to be touched and turned the troops and left for moscow without entering pskov, that is, they seemed to be

inviolable. it was a special and great sin to offend the entire motherland, and even more so to kill, but a great sin entails a great temptation, and therefore her brave ones were beaten, they were killed, and, by the way, they were often offended. children are repeatedly described as, let's say, such a gang of juveniles seemed to attack , and hooligans they kind of knocked down and nailed him and so shabby clothes to a wooden pavement and then, when he got up, and it all remained at them laughing. in part, i also described this in the lavra, which is interesting, many rodives were not russian by origin. they were, apparently. there are italians, germans, some. that's for sure also, uh, they go to another land to play the fool.

even i would say to the anti-world, since these were very different parts of the earth, then such an anti-world in relation to themselves, they were here, and maybe it seemed to them that in russia there is some kind of special third ear, especially sensitivity towards to europe and at the same time they went to orthodoxy, right? uh, they were converting to orthodoxy. e, and. in general, these were not rare cases. i saw one and give birth to him. uh, when my wife and i were at a conference in jerusalem, we met this guy, the irony of father pierre or father peter, uh, he lived near the coffins. uh, right here near the russian monastery, he has an amazing

story. he is a frenchman who converted to orthodoxy. and i decided to go on foot in russia, i decided to bow to the icon of the mother of god. now i don’t remember which icon and he didn’t know anything, nor did he know the language. it was the early nineties. he reached the border of a russian man without a passport, how is he going? then he says, i want to venerate the icon, that you can’t cross like that. and they say to him, well, go, he told us that they let him in. in the end, because they realized that this person was going to the extreme. here, he is so typical and pink and foolishness. this is not only an attempt

to hide one's holiness from the holy fool. there is one more he. gets rid of his personality. and this most precious thing is dearer than the body, because if a person breaks up, it's terrible , and let's say the holy fool sleeps, eats like dogs in the garbage heap in the barn. he really becomes a declassed personality, but now he loses , he dissolves in god and he becomes a part of some kind of divine energy. and holy fools. it is not so that since she was always many and seemed to be in a monastery and there was a period of foolishness for them, and then they left their

relationship. it was, uh, it was normal for them to go out and then begin such a life typical of a monk. it seems to me that hypocrisy is a very useful thing. i'm not calling all uh to become ironic, but her affinity is some kind of self-denunciation. this is some look at the side and look with a smile. here, it is especially useful for people who carry themselves, which, as galich sang, think that each his word is a million and each step is a million. stay a little at least for the inner motherland and you will see how little it is. you mean it is, by the way, a wonderful phrase, she is a caregiver when this formidable inscription appears. and

daniel speaks to him, interpreting the situation in general, you are weighed on the scales of the almighty and found very light. a fantastic phrase for beauty. it's great all the same again about literature. it seems to me that if andrei platonov and platonov are talking about the twentieth century, of course, let's say his story is semyon yes, where the boy dies, mother and the boy begins to be a mother to his brothers and sisters, then puts on a woman's dress and speaks from here. don't call me more seeds. you call me ksenia and ksenia - this, of course, is a clear reference to another famous ironic ksenia of petersburg, and for such a proletarian writer, which platonov was still considered to be during his lifetime, this is surprising

, or his story yushka is such a classic, by the way, these are also found here are the motives there, the children didn’t like yuzhnaya or they didn’t like it, they squared the hedgehog, the hedgehog, offended him, he was homeless and this one, by the way, such a platonic accent, i want to throw a bridge and e to your writings. yes, the name platonov is found in the aviator in the last novel. eh, chagen is also such a surname platonic in terms of sound and composition. that's all the same, if we talk not only about the lavra, where the yurudiaceae are shown, as heroic, in the conditions of the natural russian middle ages. and if we talk here, uh, about your work, about your novels, the actions that take place. we are closer to us. yes, in the twentieth century, even in the twenty-first here, here, how would you yourself determined, and here is the holy fool's accent, which is in your books. it seems to me that the foolish accent, as well, of which you speak of it to a greater or lesser extent. uh, they carry all

my uh novels, because it's actually a joke, but julymar. this is already some prerequisite to the thoughts of auradstvo, and a joke - it's always some other twist. this is a crooked mirror and reality begins to change in it, but it changes as it changes. so uh some things suddenly become obvious. and we see that a person some special ears and suddenly his ear is on the whole mirror. but this mirror is a joke. uh, she's always con. on something that was not so obvious and it seems to me that humor, and i

try to write with humor. all of my stuff, even the saddest ones, are still, which, in general, is not the most cheerful thing of humor, there is, of course, a lot of humor. it means a lot there, because humor, for example, in relation to death. this is an attempt to show her that you are not afraid of her. i had an absolutely amazing story. in paris i wandered into a cemetery one evening erlashez, firstly, i heard music from afar in the world's live music. this is what the jans bank looked like playing and dancing, and to this music they bring in some kind of coffin room. i think for burning then uh. here, although i don’t know how the order is there. aha, which is formed by those present

. a woman in a bright red coat is dancing and crying, and she also has a clown’s nose glued on, and she is crying. and i want to ask something. what is possible in such cases? how to put a question, but i asked, standing on the edge, what is it? he says funeral. i'm talking about why does he speak like this, she expresses her contempt for death. i say why does john become an interlocutor says he was a jazz musician. this is something close to growth, although unkindness in its purest form. ah. foolishness is a view of oneself from the outside. so uh, i uh, in general, quite often uh,

i use it. this is the look of a hero, for example, a hero in the first person, and he must always have a sense of humor, just so that it is a stereo look at himself. and chagin has a sense of humor. at the very chagin chagin is very moderate, he has almost no humor. it seems to me that he has no sense of humor at all, and humor is achieved due to the fact that we see the main character through the eyes of different people. and here's the humorous effect. it arises from the first pages precisely due to this contrast and also a description. there is also a funeral and these funerals, that the fingers of the deceased or the hands of the deceased are propagandists, but by the sea, although a mistake has occurred. yes, he is an archival worker and the narrator was a former story, only in a real former story, they said that his hands smell like bread. here it was frightened us. well, someone said, well, yes,

he had to cut bread, probably, they could smell, their left. i really have a funeral. and they say that they smell like ship ropes. eh, here, and chagin whom everyone considered a walking paperclip. uh, never had any ship's ropes in his life. but he had something else, he had a phenomenal memory. and now, uh, this memory tormented him from the original, and he sought to get rid of it. i have all the heroes a little act. so schliman helmet. it’s definitely possible to consider him as such a fickle one in an adventurous life, so changeable, yes, that’s how a person from one state rushes to another and, in fact, in the scientific world they went to him for sure, it seems, they are all so serious with their merit degrees.

this one really came. here they laughed at him. yes, but in the end he makes them all easier. uh, embarrass everyone. and i found an absolutely amazing poem for troy, which you quote there, yes, well, yes, this poem is also very foolish, if if you like this poem by viktor schneider viktor schneider yes, but his poem speaks of paradoxes. i 'll read it a little then. yes with pleasure. yes, they say the forger schlimann. so, until the end of her days, she did not find out that all his fake finds given to them as the remains of three, in fact, were often such. he told his wife, my love, my support is happiness, and he himself blushed from this lie and flattery even

once. himself without suspecting that he spoke the true truth. and that his wife was his only support and happiness and love. great, right? yes because a person, being in his fantasy, he is aware of this. he doesn't understand that fantasy is based on reality. and this dialectic is the ratio of the real and the fantastic, it is not at all simple, and a person often does not understand himself that he is the true truth in general. chagin is in many ways an amphe novel that we ourselves are a creature in some kind of myth and

see everyone in shell of myth about myth. i love history somehow. i stopped by dmitry sergeevich likhachev to sign a paper. and i was driving alone magazine to the editor there was some kind of note and i signed it. he says stay for lunch. keep me company, but it was an offer not to be refused. well, i spent 2 hours from me sergeyevich, he obviously always told some interesting things. in general, i was late for 2 hours , he says to me, well, why did you come so late? i say, perhaps it will be partly an excuse for me that i was asked to stay for dinner with sergeevich likhachev. and they say in unison, and what does he eat? it was a joke, but it was a joke that followed from the myth that this man? with a purely

spiritual essence has long been. here are things like lunch. it's not about him. well, by the way, he also wrote a lot about holy fools. yes, he wrote , it seems, but he deliberately did not consider it much, by the way, hmm interesting materials collected, and hmm her family from sergei ivanov there is also byzantine material. here e. well, my wife tatiana did a lot of work, and motherland. i thought all the time, maybe she didn’t see you, she also gave birth to her. why? she married me or vice versa, she decided to watch. eh, how is it that in any person there is ugliness in any and this is completely obvious. the bottom because sometimes it is very difficult

to deal directly with being, and its relationship is something. i would say the deformation of reality, and in a deformed form it is somehow possible to cope with it, that is, it seems that they are not something very human, human, which makes our life easier, there is very human, like this okudzhava, and the soul is already - that’s for sure, if she’s been burned by the fair , she’s more merciful and righteous, these are people with soul-burnt people who have no pride, and this is very important, because it happens that even among ascetics. here there is some pride when a person begins to think. and who 's like me, probably no one else. and the holy fool does not think so, because he is always the worst. but this, by the way, is still very interesting in the film

lungin island. there, of course, the image of the main character. yes, he bears such obvious traits of her kinship and is also curious. it comes against the backdrop of his own personal tragedy. a little something in common here with chaga novel. yes, when a person has some very serious sin on his soul, and he tries, he cannot forget it, he remembers, and here is kinship, as a way to overcome this situation. everyone has their own, but in any case, there is something in common here, it seems to me. yes, uh, these are the so-called crisis lives, and this is terminchena, and he was talking about a special type of crisis inhabitants, egyptian, for example, yes life, at the beginning, of which the sin of the fall and or some kind of terrible act is always the same, as far as i understand when we read something we take this life as an example.

yes, to take an example, but to take the example of the orphanages would be rather strange. it seems to me that it cannot be that some kind of relay race of some school of some tradition to pass on this holy fool hero. or i'm wrong, but in fact, holy fools, too, just like ascetics always assume a certain one. eh, so to speak, the examples are just as regular, and often. eh, let's say even in the lives it is indicated that he was following, but let's say andrei of tsargradsky did it here, and or there he eh? following seed a place for whom, uh, did this and that, well , we are unlikely to find that some other woman, after the death of her husband, follows xenia of petersburg , began to wear a man's dress and call herself andrey andrey yes, a unique story. it seems to me that here it seems to be interesting precisely because

of its absolute originality. not necessary is impossible. it can only be once, and they seemed to be very closely following how it was before them. eh, it wasn't such information channels, how could they? the lives of the herodians it was different there were people from very good families. here, and besides, you didn’t have to be literate if, for example, you are in a monastery, because you usually read the lives at the meal. it turns out that a person left the monastery and became a roy. no, he was sometimes within the monastery, and, as it seems, they depressed their body, and they wore two-pound

religion, 32 kg. yes, they wore elks. here are the different materials. i am not an expert here i will not speak, but life is described. that's what and here's the bristle, it's they bristle, inside the wear was so sharp that it seemed to constantly bleed from me e in the laurel. a clever story about the holy fool thomas, i like it very much. he is such a person, uh , not to say that hmm very hmm ceremonial here but he is the vocabulary of the corresponding and the vocabulary of the corresponding uh. there is such a scene. i think i can see her well. and if you shoot it, maybe someday it will work out. here he is dying. and he decides to free the city at least for a while, pskov from demons, and he

walks through the city and everyone knew that thomas was dying and the whole city went out and followed him, and thomas threw stones to destroy even the most impudent demons. at some point, his eyesight failed, and he says, depart the light from my eyes, they put stones in his hands, and he threw these stones at demons. here he is such a fighter uh foma uh, oh and kind. you arseniy, he was more of a gentle person, and on the one hand, you need someone who throws stones at demons, but on the other, you definitely need someone who speaks like angels himself, and these are different types of foolishness, and it’s wonderful that

they are wonderfully different. so this was a podcast. the life of the wonderful and and our guest was the writer yevgeny gernovich, a divers. hi this is a podcast of witnesses to eisenstein and its leading film historians natalya ryabchikova and stanislav didinsky we talk about who and how created and watched iconic well-known little-known forgotten soviet films. this is the school of the moviegoer, where we reveal the secrets of the kenarchives and tell. why watch soviet cinema now, how to better understand it, how to find new meanings in it and get the most out of it pleasure. and today we will talk

about films that were created and watched during the great patriotic war. stanislav how it all started, how we enter this topic, how we enter this concept of military cinema. well, i must say that as soon as, uh , the country found out that the great patriotic war had begun, and a mass initiative from below begins, including among some graphists, and the idea of ​​\u200b\u200bcreation arises. well, in general. economic expediently justified film product that can be to do in the current conditions, which are developing quickly, yes, because there is still filming, as we know, this is usually a long process, especially a feature film. you need to validate the script. here you need to confirm the actors to build the scenery and so on. in general, it can take six months or a year or even more, and some graphic artists, after thinking, decide what needs to be filmed. short films as soon as possible, and as soon as possible to release them on

the screen, so that, well, in addition to newsreels, which so endlessly walked, and there how is the preparation for the front. and about it. today we will also talk about a separate porter of cameramen. this is a separate interesting topic, which continues our time to be explored more and more. we know how biographies. well, then, in june of the forty-first year, and a decision is made on the initiative. and some graphic artists will shoot the so-called combat collections of footage for collections, which will consist of plots. but small ones, and there 10-15 minutes, yes, and tell some well , accessible, but in simple language stories about how what is happening in the rear and at the front. let's look at fragments from the combat collection number nine, which just now clearly shows how it was. wait. who are you me? pole quarter number 14 searches to no avail

tell that if in an hour it is not issued, then every tenth and so on. thank you for everything. goodbye. goodbye. uncle one minute. don't worry, i'll just show him how to get through the passage yard let's go, in fact, the combat films were not the first, but the war films that came out on the screen, because before it all began to be collected in full-length. yes, these same collections came out, one metro card, which was incredibly important, came out already in july in the forty-first year. chapaev is with us. this is an example of how cinema. well, as a kind of phenomenon. yes, yes, in our life it takes popular heroes. in particular. here. they took. chapaev chapaev in the film of the early thirties, as we know, was dying at the end of the tape was not clear, but here we are told

unambiguously chapaev and chapaev are with us. won't you take it? come on, vasily ivanovich, come on, come on, come on. finally, vasily ivanovich was waiting for you here, they thought, you won’t swim out, if

chapaevna doesn’t swim out. it seems to me that greta is like footage, but the canons of social realism are breaking down on the soviet screen, because we see really mass cinema, well , in which, as it were, two universes, two multiverses collide, or merge into one. why did they take chapaev at all, why was it possible to do it a little, it seems like in the series sherlock sherlock dies, and then comes back, we are not so we know a lot about how the audience actually watched movies in the thirties, but we know that the boys ran to watch chapaev dozens of times, because there was a rumor that somewhere in one of the cinemas. chapaev still emerges and this is the desired finale. yes, so that it falls out after 7 years and is embodied and it’s good that boris babkinkin returns, like chapaev, moreover, a director, but another director here is vladimir petrov , who made about the first one, but the first ones haven’t been done yet, the vasiliev brothers, and in military film collections exactly the same appear any

characters from the thirties. e, for example, maxim performed by boris chikov. only they come back from other directors. it's so interesting how the directors take, and their favorite character , which was embodied by their other colleagues and themselves like that, but they take such a cameo, but they take it and it turns out, really the universe, and soviet movie heroes of other screens, who all meet in one kind of interesting such.