[000:00:00;00] fu, and it will be convenient for parents to keep track of his expenses tinkoff junior and we will help the child in the first financial issues tinkoff he is the only one this is an easy money podcast, and i am its host mikhail khanov today we have natalya kolbasina, financial consultant of the financial health expert service national center for financial literacy. and we are talking about the family budget, and life hacks for a mixed budget. yes, what can be said? that's when you see all the spending, yes, when you how to say, yes, what is it spending does not fall into any of the spheres is precisely a waste. they are an acquisition. that is, you say it like this. for this, there is no longer. we already have one, in the first place. again, i am in favor of evaluating these expenses not one-time,

but in the future, for example, for a year. well, how much what amount does it run up again for what, in order to turn on that same financial awareness and understand that if 10-20% of your annual budget is spent on some spontaneous spending, then, well, in fact it can be, for example, on your vacation. well are you ready for it or not? well, on the other hand, we are people. we are generally emotional beings and it is impossible to refuse spontaneous spending. well, what is the figure in the annual budget, let’s say for spontaneous spending, but i don’t know if there is some kind of exquisite cosmetics or well, which you didn’t agree on initially, some kind of cream procedures or there, on the male side, i don’t know any cigar clubs, or game consoles there, with which there are still male models of helicopters that are fond of. anything is there. in my opinion. everything you have just listed.

these are not spontaneous expenses for one of the cosmetic partners. yes, because for some of the partners it may be, well , it really is a waste. we are all very individual. for example, my husband's hobby is fishing. if i start talking listening to your spontaneous waste and you're not going anywhere, there's this club. yes , because fishing there costs 10,000 rubles. what, well, i think it's a serious crack in our relationship. if the wife, if the wife interferes with fishing, then why? she is such a wife. yes, that's why it is necessary here, firstly understand what is important for each of the spouses. and if for the wife, for example, cooking is a hobby, she is fond of japanese cuisine there, otherwise this, on the contrary, must be planned in the budget in the category, but mandatory spending under spontaneous purchases. i understand shopping. well,

such occasional bad mood. i'll buy it. i’ll put on my fifth blouse somewhere later or well, i’m running, i’m running to buy chocolates. well, here's something. yes , it’s difficult to insure yourself against them, it’s difficult to keep it, but there is also a life hack. i suggest create a fund of joy, we have such a fund in our budget. we have established that, well, five, 10 to ten percent, but absolutely everything. again, it depends on the financial capabilities of the family, what's the point? we are at the moment of receiving the money. i 'll drop it right there. i have a separate card. even this is, but to not suffer. yes, it’s not to be considered there, and i throw it there, mm as a percentage of income, or i’m planning an annual budget right away, and i understand, yes, well, my cash flows are very good. it can be some kind of fixed amount of money, a

then we spend this money with pleasure. in general, without thinking, we are not engaged in self-discipline. yes, we do enjoy it. and what's the plus. and we thus still deceive the brain. because when we start budgeting to set aside money for goals for him, this is a direct threat. that is how our brain thinks we live here and now. and i want to get all the pleasures and joy of life. what is my pension before the pension of 30 years? why are you here now, then you will take these 10,000, and i will sit and you can say here to starve, but for the brain it’s generally right somehow. well, no, i won't do that. and when there is this fund of joy, and what the brain sees, it understands that there is money. i can spend me they infringe. i mean, i have money. i can please myself, but it doesn’t

happen that spouses, well, it’s clear that this is a matter of agreement and so on. yeah, i took it all and spent the entire fund of joy on myself. or maybe everyone has their own if you have a mixed budget. it is clear we can discuss the theory for a long time, and we are really very discussed a lot. what is a budget, how to make it? what pitfalls await us when compiling it, and most importantly, control and implementation, but the main problems, as you know, begin in practice. we do not have direct calls to the studio, but we collected the opinion of our audience, formulated them, helped formulate questions in a concise form, summarized them. and now i will ask you questions. you will answer them as concisely as possible . we are a young couple recently married, my husband earns much more than me. i am so far i'm finishing university. sometimes i work out the budget and decide to do it separately. him the same modern people, but the result i am poor as a church mouse and can not afford. even a vacation with my husband, well, to finance my turn, what to do to ask him for money

, my convictions do not allow me. well, girls have two options. first earn more. i understand, yes, that now it is impossible the second, and the girl has negative financial beliefs, what to ask for money? yes , ashamed is bad, therefore, and i recommend talking to your husband to explain your feelings and emotions that i really feel you. this is a bad situation and suggest that he switch to a mixed budget model. very often, in fact, it happens that women drive themselves into such a situation. and the man does not even suspect that she is uncomfortable with the woman, she still needs to talk more with her husband and not take the appropriate poses. like cute guess the man himself can't guess himself, because he's not some kind of clairvoyant dear women talk to your husbands. explain to them what you feel about it. nothing terrible. believe me, and both of you will be happy. so next question. we have been married for 20 years. before the birth of children, the wife

worked and earned on all the finishes. she herself is now out of the passing decree. well, that is, they raise children. i am the only earner. not only do i pull this whole boat on myself, but i also didn’t buy a phone for scandals. i installed the car, i didn’t give it to send it to work or get a divorce, but i think that getting a divorce is the simplest and not the most effective way to solve the problem. i would still call my wife to the conversation, but explained her arguments and listened. and what does she think, in general, about this whole situation, why does she not go to work? this is the first second and if you send your wife to work, then many additional questions arise, who will look after the children, what is the father of the family ready to take on, will he cope on his own or not, or will they need a nanny? how much does a babysitter cost, what will be left of the wife's salary if she comes feisty, yes, and at the same time

, she has some very small amount left there. well, it's hardly the best solution. in addition, i see that the family hmm well , this financially is broken. communication and most likely the husband needs to involve his wife, including children, in the discussion of financial issues, plan the vestibule together , show how things are going, that is, budgeting, again, the conversation about money will be removed. i think the wife has unnecessary questions, because it is believed that, well, there is some ephemeral money somewhere that you can hide from me. why don't you buy a fur coat and she don't know how things are going in fact, they demand a fur coat. let's turn the situation around. i work in a large company of a woman and my husband is a freelancer, a journalist, and all his cash flows are extremely unstable. well, that is , there is no communication from time to time, lives in dreams of large orders. well, as every journalist strives to write a book. this has been going on

for 5 years now. i buy everything for the house and i pull everything myself and i don't like that in essence. i live with the gigolo whom i love. no children yet, but i think about it. how to budget a projection on children. the secret, in fact it will be what does stepping into poverty mean, here is what such a guy would advise , a problem arose in this family, because a man has been looking for himself for 5 years and the question has arisen of how to distribute expenses in general, so what is good the family thinks about children . children are a way out to a new level of relationships, including a new financial level. i would first try to call my husband to the financial negotiating table and say that look, if we are planning children, if we are planning some other financial goals there. that's how much money you need are you ready to take over? how can you well participate, right? what kind of investments, including financial ones, can you make, that is, i would not take on all the financial

responsibility and turn into his mother, because now, well, here, i see that there is such a situation, that is, the husband is looking for himself because he has a wife who solves all problems. fine? next question. we are a young couple both working. salaries by the standards of the regions are quite decent, but the mortgage. credit repair a car on lease, we simply suffocate from the fact that we are constantly in debts can not afford, no shopping at all for the soul of any holiday and party. this is a quarrel over personal money spent. how to be well, there are also two aspects. this is a lack of financial knowledge and psychological points regarding the financial knowledge of the family. uh, lives on credit. this is a constant financial stress, and they climbed into a loan. well, because they simply underestimated their financial capabilities, before

taking any loan, you need to generally assess your financial capabilities and calculate. and what percentage of income will go as much as possible payments of 25-30%, if a-a is more, then you will have to shrink and limit yourself in current expenses and it’s already comfortable there, in fact, it correlates with your previous ones. uh, with conclusions, then i’ll say for our audience that it’s not clear where you spent the same 20% before budgeting, and then you found out that you can not reduce your standard of living by spending 20% ​​less. these 20% can just be spent on setting a goal for which you can take a loan and you will understand that you are now spending these 20% consciously on some big the goal, paying loan payments on a monthly basis and understanding, when you finish, when you return to the fact that you will again have these 20% in the budget, and it will be possible to set a new goal, including for a loan, that is,

this is a plus for the budget and from a psychological point of view. why do people live constantly on credit, and then we need to figure out what is behind this desire. and we close some really necessary basic vital needs for everyone or yes like for everyone, because you can buy a car? one million rubles or for 5 million rubles. you go or show that you are successful, this is also a very important point. really evaluate your possibilities. i 'm used to living in a big way without denying myself anything. i recently got married, and my husband is a very economical person. i would even say miserly. he constantly reproaches me with unnecessary losses and gives unsolicited advice , we have a separate budget, and yet scandals haunt him with powerful programming. and to me his greed, how to be the budget, at the moment separate, i would not fool at all i didn't pay attention to my head. but

now he is separate. and if it becomes common, then life will really turn into hell, therefore , ah, the partners have different financial convictions. i would try to deal with financial beliefs in order to understand what money means for a person, that is, it is freedom , confidence, there is some kind of well-being. and for this you need to find out how a person generally thinks about money, what he feels, how his parents kept the budget, what they said about money. and that's when they will be. this understanding is possible will decipher the financial program of a person and already look for common ground. this is, in my opinion, a very interesting question. uh, we form an airbag, we put aside for training, we invest we save. where do you get all this from? my husband and i are ordinary people, average russians. we barely have enough for food and paying utility bills. what is the budget there? we are just in eternal zero buying shoes for children is our biggest plan. what to do? how

to live if such a situation the family lives in zero is spinning like a squirrel in a wheel, i well, 100% i declare that you need a budget, moreover? not just a fix. yes income expenses. and the same system and the first. why would i start with annual planning, that is, because it allows you to look strategically at all your cash flows. find optimization opportunities. the same income. we have only 21% of russians receive tax deductions. and this is a great opportunity. well here's replenish your budget and spend on it. well i do not know. this is the very optimization of income, and i can say with firm certainty that in any budget, you can find a resource through optimization and find up to 10% free money. here is an example from my personal life. and as for the cost of food for many families.

i know that this is, well, important, such the largest component in the budget, and i have a menu for the week, firstly, saving time, and secondly, really financial savings, and we buy according to the list. and i built a very competent system of purchases. well, there is the same logistics in enterprises is the same. this refers to the household, while my daughter was small. we went with her, and on wednesday to a certain store of the federal network, and bought there for a week and received a 10% discount for families with children. my daughter went there with me. like a job, because we honestly divided the amount of the discount in half. and that was her extra pocket money. that is, for me it was another important element of financial education. and we got a discount. and i also received additional bonuses on the card there. i installed an increased cashback. if there was such an opportunity, and

indeed it is possible to easily reduce costs to 10% off groceries. the most important thing is without losing quality. well, you know natalya to be honest, listening to you, i remember the great elf and petrov scene. eh, it's just a phrase. you know how ostap doesn't play with his opponents by variety in playing combinations to all questions, the answer is very simple. keep the family budget, the family budget found out there is a general mixed separate, but the very fact of its introduction is the observance of goals. hey, why are you taking him? yes, this is financial goal setting. this is planning, this is accounting, this is analysis and control. and that's an optimization. these are the five important elements of budgeting. they just write down will lead you to the fact that your relationships in the family will become happier, and you are much less likely to divorce yourself and part with your partner.

and uh, happiness will not apply to return or come again to your house natalya thank you very much. let's hope that all these life hacking tips that our audience recorded with your help will really help people become happier. thanks everybody financial well-being and achievement of goals. hello with you, the schrödinger code podcast and i am its host grigory tarasevich, the editor-in- chief of the magazine, you won’t believe the schrödinger code either, and today we will talk unexpectedly about cats and together with our guest miroslav volkov , a professional zoopsychologist. we'll talk

about what our fluffy. these are the ones that run, purr, and meow, in fact. this is a big serious scientific topic miroslav once again. hello. let's start with history, look. here is a popular book often written the code was domestic then, then, then, then, how did people even know, when and where was the domestic cat, for starters, we need to understand what domestication is, that is, and this is the process when the cat came to our house, and how do we perceive it? well, for example, family members or when only we began to get to know her and select individuals from the wild, and on the basis of loyalty to a person and applying. this is an animal for some purpose. and for example, the most banal and most dominant theory that we now think is the protection of grain, when we have already settled

well enough from rats from mice and other rodents and, accordingly, the preservation of our supplies so that we can survive, there are other unfavorable times in winter, as i remember earlier they wrote in books, the cat first became a domestic ancient in egypt, i remember the goddess bucks, i remember all sorts of images of cats. well, i've read the latest works, well, the last decades, and it turns out that everything is much more complicated. there's a whole detective there. uh, there was a discovery in cyprus, they found the tomb of some ancient local person. near 40 cm lies a corpse. sorry kitties. there are no wild cats in cyprus, that is, he was specially brought there and specially buried. how did people even know. how many years have these finds been written all the time for some years, right? see there is carbon. we consist of it in many ways, we eat it, and so on and so forth, but up there. i mean, not in the authorities, but in the upper atmosphere, cosmic rays

hit the atoms and radioactive carbon appears, 14. it reaches us, we eat it. it is in our body. do not be afraid. we a little radioactive because of that. well, when we stop eating, that is, we die. it begins to decay at the same rate ; its rate is stable, 5,700 years of semi-decay , and that's in terms of the amount of this isotrope. one can quite clearly determine when this or that subject of life went into the world. these remains were dated otherwise. uh, in cyprus and there, the age is 9 1/200 years. and this partly immediately reveals the history of the causes of the domestic day, because in general there was only one, in my opinion, important revolution, the october they consider the french american revolution, this is the neolithic revolution, when people stopped only to gobble up what they caught, collected and said to accumulate something

, and then a problem happened, as you already said, pussy mice covers. can you imagine? in the sweat of your brow, some kind of stone or hoe built up grain for yourself and collected it in a hangar. the tailed one came there, the creature ate it. you know, how insulting. hmm. yes, such a one . and here it wanders somewhere, it means some kind of wild creature that turns out to be useful. and they seem to have agreed that here is cyprus, the current middle east, turkey is a little bit of iran, iraq there seems to be cats, at least carbon analysis proves it, but then there is a whole bone war for the right to be the first cat. this is where the egyptians came in. they say, no no, we have the remains of cats that had a clear fracture of the hardness of all bones. and after that they lived for a long time, otherwise they were looked after, which means that this is a truly

domestic cat. here come the chinese. no, the first cats were ours. here, check them out fed with millet. we figured it out somehow. just the first culture in our area. ours used to be, but not quite like the chinese. they didn't feed well. it’s just that a cat was found in their rolls, which ate a mouse, which in turn ate, simply, that is, they seem to have a little more complicated, and technically it is considered with the europeans. and in particular. well , they are like with europeans with eastern people of ancient civilizations. that's how we call it. of course, they really compete in this, but, of course, they agreed a little on one the fact that the chinese they really tried to domesticate cat animals, but they tried to develop their native breed, which would be bred from local wild cat species. but then, when a european cat, a domesticated steppe, came to them. still, she was pushing out her breed, like torture, to bring out her wild cats, because she was already

ready, roughly speaking, she was already domesticated. she was probably for a person. she has already been selected for the ability to catch these mice most effectively. however, not only their we kill, but also bringing, so to speak, reporting. here and actively cooperate with the person in this matter. and so they abandoned their attempts to carry out their experiments on breeding their own domestic cat. look, here comes the second question. who directly? ancestor, because there are a lot of wild cats in the world and there was a study based on another method , another buzzword, in addition to the radiocarbon method. this is the mitochondrion, the mitochondrion is ours. well, also such a domestic creature by and large. uh, there was once a bacterium, and so she liked living inside. e cells, that she has become part of our cells, she has a small dna of her own, which biology loves very much, because it is possible to trace absolutely the entire history of the genus from it, because only from mother

to mother is transmitted and the americans took a thousand different cats of wild domestic and very different and compared the genomes that mitochondria. and it turned out that our domestic cats one species as an ancestor is a specific yes. this is the steppe she is the near east one spotted felisica. yes, she is the most then once we started picking. and when we had, ah, not quite so in theory in theory, unlike dogs. we didn't pull her in. it was she who began to come to us. that is, if we selected the wolves for different signs, and they themselves somehow approached us, we domesticated them or undermined them, inserted them, tamed them, trained them, and so on, and selected them according to various signs that would be useful in different categories farms for hunting for protection. for anything . here, with cats, everything is a little

more complicated. we are just a steppe cat essentially took over. we didn't do anything with her. we had stocks of grain. we have already become sedentary animals. and accordingly, we went on like this. well, i would say that the rapid economic development is due to the fact that we have resources that we protect from someone more, who does not have less, but at the same time they can disappear, and just the cat she helped us. by itself , e solve the problem of preserving this grain from various parasite rats, mice, and so on partnerships, but in fact, yes, because the cat did not receive human care, but at the same time she received some bait and the opportunity to hunt almost without borders , and at the same time her food ration expanded, because, but she received many, many different mice and from here, how would we start breeding her, and then she started we saw how beautiful she is, how cool she is. she began to get used to us. we began to get used to

it and, accordingly, the windows became our pets. and it is believed that it was at this moment that the steppe mug. she turned into a domestic cat precisely for a sign of a person's loyalty, first of all, but at the same time she still has other, as it were, characteristics of her wild comings. this is the ease of hunting, they have lost the instinct of killing, because our cats they are one of the few that love to kill, which people do it for fun, just kill it, and one of their features. many gardeners. they can see this, that is, when they let the cat out to run, the cat very often brings moles, birds, mice, and of those who, perhaps, are left in front of the porch, but at the same time she does not eats. a lot of people did not watch me in the video that the cat brings the mouse. she is still barely alive. she tries to escape the cat and catches again. i myself observed this in my country. it was a record. seven mice per day. and what about cats?

uh, the benefit from the fact that the mouse brought us, and in no way is it just entertainment for her, that is, she brought it, but because she thinks, this is her house, that is, she has it in her house. that's what i said, and certainty is the source of resources. that is, it is food, water , warmth, shelter for you, as a host, and so further. and just at that very moment, when her house was connected with some pile of grain, which must be guarded, because she knows that a mouse will come there. now she is our home, our apartment there. it doesn’t matter where we live, she perceives it as a place where it is stored, a certain pile of grain, namely cat food, yes, which can be used as food, or a bait for this food, and therefore , of course, they bring mice to us there, but rather, yes, she brings home her temple. and here i had the abode hypothesis. wonder about it your opinion. why a cat, and not some other animal. here's my hypothesis that in general it's all about the optimal size, see the cat is big enough to

catch a rat. um, well, not so big that it was difficult for me to feed if i finished. and i would say in another way that rats cannot end in the sense that cats are not really big enough to catch a rat, very few cats are able to catch a rat. i assure you, because, for example, we have a certain breed, like the maine coon, for example, american ones, which were specially bred in order to catch rats. we know they are much more. that's right , physically more so that they can suppress a big plump, greedy, very smart and ferocious rat. that's because the rats are very difficult to catch the british. to do this , they even brought out a certain breed of dog, already some thrillers that were focused specifically on hunting for rats. that is, they had their own, as it were, abilities for this , technically, like a cat. why hasn’t it changed in size with us, because nature i made it this size myself. that is, if we put a typical domestic cat , even if there is some legendary from

the yard, and suppose our felicie-libika, which is the size of the color according to the shape of the face of the ears, if well, our domestic cats will be alone in the water. i think that the layman for and we even with you just like that the steppe cat will run past us. we won't even realize it's not homemade. our usual cat. and it's just nature that we have preserved, because nature has created the perfect predator in this relation. that is, our domestic cat - it is much more effective in terms of killing , hunting and searching for prey than any other predators. its dimensions are approximately, that is, from here. we have a rather big environmental problem, because our cats have spread like no other, and accordingly, when we let her out just like that for a walk, if we put her place of residence, like in the center of the circle that's it, the radius of this circle is drawn somewhere 300 meters, then in this area there is practically nothing alive in a cat, sooner or later you will not be scared friends, but see another study

to read about the comparison of the genomes of wild cats of various kinds. and our home and of course the difference is very small. well, even from the photograph, it is evident no, you cannot distinguish the steppe forest of our home vaska. here , at the genome level , neurotransmitters are produced differently, that is, substances respond through behavior. that is, there is more deformin, that is, she is more happy more affectionately. and it seems to me that this is largely due to this she is so integrated into our family. eh, when is it no longer necessary to catch mice? i i'm guessing it's, um, the neurotransmitter system. she's kind of really very plastic plastic enough in all social animals, because after all, uh, libika, she's more hmm not so social than a domestic cat. although there are moved. still, 10 years of artificial selection have changed. firstly. yes, and

, secondly, it allows her to adapt very actively. that is, we will look at the cat of ancient times, which is just. hunted for mice near the heap, grain and cats, which they now do completely different functions, but for us it is in terms of the social development of mankind. yes , exactly as the role of the development of our society, but at the same time, in fact, it is, as it were, so cool. eh, everything works. it adapts so well to our life to the conditions of life in the city to the conditions of life, and hmm with us who live in the city yes, because the style in our life has also changed in this respect and, accordingly, as it were , it’s understandable that its internal qualities also changes evolutionarily, because it is selected those animals that can quickly adapt to anthropomorphic facts are oil, and i want to better understand, what does he do

to bring the siberian bandit and the french swindler and you think what to achieve big? not only that, they agreed behind your back. they don't care yet, what do you know about it? i'm afraid of the hand, you will cease to be respected. trader the premiere of a multi-part film tomorrow after the time sit please program, there is a great way to teach a child financial literacy free tinkoff junior card tinkoff junior child will learn

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such a cultural factor. yes, but as a cultural factor. yes, probably, but as cultural factors. it seems to me that the cat is with us. that's how much she's been with us she's a cultural factor, because if we take the ancient egyptians, who goes there, they've made a religious cult out of her. and yes, even they are a cat buried together with the uh cemetery, and we look at us, and the cats they never left our cultural life, in fact, because if we look at the art there, uh, the middle ages, if we look at the renaissance leonardo, yes vinci damn cat was one of any characters. so let's say, we can conclude that the cat she has been in our culture for a long time, and she lives so close there and does not lose her position, and therefore there is, naturally, a reflection. pleasure as some, as here art is a mirror in our life, naturally, a cat is also present there and hence the name mass and so on cat. we may be for this

, or maybe so that we can find, probably the best friend nearby, because there are many theories, in general, why do we get pets, in the essence of our theory, in general, how to explain this? i myself have two cats, a dog, a turtle, and so on, but why i can’t fully explain it here is a difficult question, because here everyone is in their own garden and each of them has one. eh, your good arguments about this are more to me i like the theory that we redirect our parental behavior to animals in need of care. about someone, not only from someone receiving some benefits, but also in return. we have to give something too. it is in us. and when we do not implement this behavior. we get very large psychological deviations associated with the non-realization of this behavior and the cat. she allows us to do it. and cats adjust. is it true that they meow? uh, wild cats. only children, and adults are only no home.

look here, actually, there are two theories , some people say that cats only communicate with each other and others say that cats, on the contrary , only communicate with people through this vocalization, yes, that is, they say, meow moore. this is the whole gamut of sounds that they can make, they have learned to do it. only for us. in fact. this is not so, because even if we look at just ordinary cats that have not lived at home for several generations. that is, for example, in summer cottages in snt anywhere. we can watch when one code approaches another and such, maybe meow. you know, this is what he says like this, uh, the other one answers him. well, like he's meow, so he says, like, i can come up, hello , this is for them, this is what it means, hello and glad to see you. and the other is already looking at him and thinking, knowing these, i don’t know what to expect from you, and so on. and then the answer could already follow, like, you can come to me, or i’m already like not

i especially want to communicate with you, here or a , for example, the code of another may hiss. here, or the most famous one, is the march cats, when they have such a deaf uterine we are more often like a cow. this sound is for the whole area, in short, people think they are sitting like that, and this whole localization is there, and it is directed primarily for communication between the two. that's why we seem to be talking about the fact that cats really meow and communicate with each other, but it's another matter that they, of course, they redirect this behavior and on a person and trying to understand , a person understands them, and how they understand them from here. they perfected it. they don't play along with us . they fall into a childish image in order to become children and get more affection, they are not pods. this is natural behavior for them. she wants communication, she meows. so she can, resurrect your bed. she can tear up the wallpaper. you can get up and throw a slipper at her. for

her, this is also communication, you understand all the same about needs, except for how to devour. that's when you stroke her why i even like it. well, because she is also a social animal in the sense that she also needs communication and also needs to receive, of course, of course . petting a cat, we enjoy the release of oxidation warmly, and in nature, someone who strokes a cat is other cats, and physical contacts between cats, they are amazingly rich in diversity. that is, if we look at some animal populations group of animals, they are grouped together, usually cats that do not live at home. by the way, some who live at home, and they are united in some groups of comrades, so to speak, groups of friends, that is, it is difficult