he took something away, that is, there was egoism in it. i mean in my life can be so sorry ah. after all, we are psychologists here. yes, we make recommendations . yes, mine is plural. yes, here are recommendations for men not to drown in women. well, don't give up everything for the sake of women. even if a woman really wants and demands it. still, leave something of your own, yes, leave yourself too, so that you want a wife, yes, hear, don’t focus, but don’t drown, don’t chop off all his own, because, firstly , 100% is not valued, it begins to be perceived as the norm, of course, which means that another person has dissolved in me. this is at first a very nice personality. no, that's about when a man starts.

somehow it turns out to return to my self that i don’t need such a thing, what is it? ugh? phew, i just belong. it is very important for me that a man be a personality. that is, i would never in my life want him to be nothing but me. well, this is the story told. i, you know, i want this thought finish is very important that here i am at this moment. that is, or rather, when 3 years have passed, i absolutely sincerely came. eh, to the idea that through this shock through this shock, well, first of all, uh, heaven, the universe god can call it whatever she gave me. that's what i wanted to return the bottom of everything turned upside down, yes, and without this. that is, he did not give me the opportunity for us to stretch it out for another year, because at that time we were already 3-5 years old. we were saving our relationship, and it was, but absolutely a regression. how did you try to escape and

relationships told him what he ought to be. eh, you are dissolved again. well, i don't even know what. why are you talking this nonsense. this is how tenderness was shown to him. i you his affairs, were interested in, what there in a life would be in the affairs? and she didn't let me in, it 's not necessary, of course, absolutely of course, when he had to come home from work, he didn't tell, right? how to tell because there is a goddess, and here you are with your business, well, it’s impossible in things he told, but, in principle, he didn’t like it when i was the other way around, what’s there, but tell me how that is yours or somehow found, what is not, but global things. i knew, but there, like. tell me how the meeting with this, like that, but he liked to have his own space and i didn’t have it in common with you, except for pelagia. what

hasn’t been talked about for the last three years, that’s just the point, because when asked how i’m doing, he’s not interested in hearing that he doesn’t like it all, of course, has accumulated. this is the rejection that i didn’t even want to tell anything myself, you understand, yes, and that is, and we are interested in his life, how is that possible? well, naturally, i was interested in him. eh, as if by life as much as we have his whole life. in fact, it happened, well, as if in our house , that is, friends all came to visit us because he never liked to go anywhere, so his friends are our mutual friends, they all came to visit us, and we don’t know there at the big tables by the fireplace, if it's summer, then there are tables on the grass, there are endless conversations. we didn't have anything in common. is not common, here are the friends were common. well, you know, there was a moment by the way, it's interesting. tell me, as a psychologist, when friends come, everything is fine.

i mean, we're interested, we're talking to friends because you're pretending and, uh, pretending to be a happy family, you really had a good time with your friends, i mean, it was much easier for us with friends than alone, as soon as the guests left, such silence, and that's all and we have nothing to talk about. you understand the topics, i don’t know about football, about the weather, about the police. i was just half a year old, and you didn’t pick up this conversation with anything. this is the first time i'm talking about this. i think for the first time i thought, but it was just like that, was it possible? what do you think? mikhail and by the way, what do you think natalya could this marriage still be saved? i'll still notice. here is this very important moment when topics for conversations end, not because these topics do not exist. yes, we, er, when we communicate with dear close pleasant people. we don't make that up over dinner tonight. i got it, right? it's the closeness of openness from the news they already have, yes, they have it gone right? this is good. let me

tell you how my wife communicates with her mom. so she keeps a plan for several days, what to tell mom about, my god, and then sits down on the phone and tells, because my wife wants to talk with mom to find common topics. and he knows that, perhaps, mother herself, well, she will not do this. here's how it goes. himself a person who wants to find something in common, probably both a psychologist and as a word matter, and all sorts of things between a man. it seems to me that there are other cases, you need to look for guys for me very much, and the call was so shaking, yes, when this moment comes, when you start annoy. well, that didn’t bother me at all before. well, it’s annoying everyday things that you haven’t paid attention to for years, but here in the classics it simply says that there is no

love, that’s all about what has come, you understand the crisis, but ah, it’s infantile to consider that crises should not be. why should they tell you, you can't hear me, we've been trying to overcome chris five for 5 years. what to do? it's huge. let's try. i suggest you now hypothetically imagine that there is also a magic sharman who works out the time back and there are these 5 years for your question. it was possible to save the marriage, and how it could be saved was the only way, i believe, but that's not when you felt that the crisis. there , the responsibility is on the man once again, this is his dissolution in life at the waist. yes, it led to the fact that they lived for some time, here in the clouds of wakme, and then the usual real life seemed to them a painful gray. you don’t need to drive relationships there, you know what happens to most people after that when

they fall over there, over there. develop. and what is it called? here is this syndrome, when from there to there? what do you call falling in love? yeah, we're not melted down disorder. we were not separated for 7 years. and uh, they just breathed each other. here, of course, it was necessary to breathe without each other. so we had to break up somehow and decide. that and maybe there is something there, and our life goes on, that is, they should have understood at some point. yes, natalya did so at some point, she had to understand that they were in each other's world a saturated period. yes of course they overheat and it was necessary, especially since i did not in vain focus on the fact that you have a case. general has become. yes, i didn’t let go, even in the store just one, so that there was an understanding. that is, we generally got caught, listen to the victim, my husband did not let me go, then 7

years. you sated each other, didn't you? yes, it was overkill. i think that initially, if in these 7 years we are so right , you say that the husband will lose his business. it was wrong at all, it was wrong that he, as well, began to engage in show business. this it was wrong to devalue yourself and be such a servant of you, but at the same time he knows about the triangle. yes, there is a tyrant , a victim and a judge. so at first he was like yours , i don’t know , he served as a savior or served as a victim, but then he became such a tyrant when e no, i won’t let you into the store. here i am, yes, i am not. look, it was wrong on your part to get high. like a drug addict to sit on this needle of this constant service, and on his part, of course, it was wrong to dissolve in you further on your part. error was that you subordinated, when he

said, you won’t go to the store without me , i should have said. bam, honey, i'm a free man. i'm going to the store without you. and this unmistakably means that when we broke up, they shared in each that for them it was a shock alone, but for me it’s generally the norm. it was as if i didn’t understand that it was possible in a different way, because if i ended up somewhere alone , we were on the phone all the time so that he wouldn’t worry that i live alive, that is , roughly speaking, i have a personal there was no space, in general it was, well, as if absent in life we had such a common space. it was wrong. here, that is, at some point you understand from this, but although you know when i got pregnant, i remember this pregnancy, and it was the happiest period of my life and we became even happier, when i was pregnant, it’s true and from stores to talk understood, talk it endlessly now. how do you

know how and what do you think, it is possible to live with a woman and not feel when she is happy or unhappy and men. of course you can have no evidence of that. then he was happier, he behaved like a happier person. yes? did he want to, maybe we had a very harmonious relationship during pregnancy, the distortion was terrible when she became pregnant. he started his own business. he left and started show business, so just when i gave birth everything was harmonious. i just thought back then that it's great that this is some kind of even, happy family life. and that is, after this beautiful plateau, it began, as i understand it , gradually. yes, yes gradually. and he means you why because you began to resist, what did you do, what did your husband do wrong, that everything was fine,

look, first of all, this is still very important, you know what i'm saying. he tells me they devalued this fee, then this plateau of even, happiness, in which there was no flash. these prominences that burn everything out . you understand, this is it. oh, shortness of breath from happiness and from experiences. just how boring how bad it shouldn't be, but let's just say how boring, probably in 10 years. i came to this. after the birth of my daughter, that is, during this five-year crisis. at this time, i lived with the thought. what do i care, i want to live in a different life, that i have completely different needs. i want to travel the world. i need communication. i need emotional experiences because i write songs. that is , i cannot limit myself to everyday life, and at home alone i have nothing to write about, that is, i have no

feelings, no emotions, in general. i felt like i was dying. you see, therefore, friends of the essence, finally, friends, if you are not a servant like this muses, yes, and if okay, yes, then choose for yourself, also not a creative person. choose normal people not creative. yes, it's very difficult. it is very difficult. i don't understand at all. i know, when we broke up, in general, when people break up, they usually see astrologers as a psychologist. that's it. yes? of course i went too. and they told me that for all the horoscopes there, for all the cards in general. we are the most unsuitable people for each other in general, that is, here, who have nothing in common at all, how we lived for 20 years. it's because that's our crazy love. see, oh complex. at i have a feeling about this story because on the one hand. and now i see natalya who, well, in any case, very

convincingly tells us that she is lucky that she got out of this divorce? well, of course, pretty wounded shabby, but they are happy in the end. yes, there is a feeling of some kind of correctness and it was definitely a gift. eh, fate and heaven you have on the other hand in vain. it's true, i don't believe that much. you know what his. i don't believe. here is this e in this doom predestination. it seems to me that at some point we do mistakes that can be avoided. we do not have enough wisdom to prevent them or not enough. we, perhaps, uh, some kind of humility lack of pride in order to correct these mistakes, and then, of course, when the firewood is broken and when, in general, there is nothing to collect from sawdust. you start to look inside yourself. well why would that be right? i think you know the most important moment, which is that we were just approaching the threshold in our forties, somewhere up to 35-40 years old. that is, when you clearly

understand. how do you live your life is how you dreamed? or in another way, and you already understand, this is not a mid- life crisis. yes, yes, classic, when we start thinking on the one hand about death, on the other hand, about our youth. here they bribed a little land in the cemetery, they bought a motorcycle here, yes, well, i'm talking about men, if you are under 30, you understand that you are still looking for and you are still yes, everything is ahead, and at 40 you already understand that, in principle, well, as if here's a plus or minus, but you've already come. you should already understand. this is how you live. you like it. that yes, i am now living 10 times more e life, which suits me exactly. well, you certainly admit for yourself new relationships , including them now there are now, of course. now they are just a hundred times more harmonious than what looks like what you had in

the early years with your first husband at all. and what is it that makes it different? you know you , so he endlessly and madly, as he loves the first day. ah, but how do you know how a woman feels, this proof i want, of course, a woman a woman feels, everything if you don't you know, if you don't know, this is proof so, that's what, as we women , i deify, and then we think what a disappointment it was at first sight. but ah , that is, it is so gradual, but for the first time in my life, i felt, i felt what hmm is, so i came to this conclusion. now with you michael speak look with my first husband. we looked at each other, then, when we looked at each other, it was as if we were no longer interested consciously. we just turned around. so, in my current

relationship, we look in the same direction, understand the classic. and in one, that is, e, this is a relationship in which you are endlessly interested in talking, in which you are interested in watching the same films, e, sharing books that you have read and asking for an opinion about them, where you like to walk around the city and the person loves walk around the city on foot, for example, well, that is, here are the little things in relation to the puzzle in time 4 1/2 years. if a crisis comes, will you keep this relationship or will you also say lord, well, give me a sign , i think we have crises. even now yes probably, in two or three years, how would they first begin like this, and when we have a crisis and we happen, well, it’s comfortable for the two of us to just take a break. that is, for example, we do not know there three five days a week. we just don’t

communicate, that’s to put our heads in order, so that, well, somehow. to look at the situation differently and already then it is possible to talk and already look at everything differently . could the story be different your relationship could not develop, because i speak from the very beginning of the position. we had it like this. this is generally something else , such constant happiness comes out, i did everything right for me, i live happy. i'm done. i made this. right. i meant that it was right that we broke up. yes and this is it, as if you, uh, carry such a motto, as if you teach not to be afraid of divorce. yes , everything affected me. they had the feeling that you were persuading yourself. yes, yes, do not be afraid of divorce. yes, my life is happier yes yes yes. well, that is why it is good, i myself am

an example of this. why say, because every six months? reaching the house where you were together, where you were happy. it started. you just shouldn't deny it , you understand, natalia is not it yes, the page is 100%, 100%. it doesn’t matter, it’s yes, and e beat your heel in the chest that divorce is the best. what happened is strange to say that divorce is a wild tragedy, too strange, but normal human life goes on. oh friends. what kind of conversation do we have today, we continue to write the book is the best the most interesting book of ordinary lives of ordinary judgments that do not happen absolutely in happiness there is no absolute grief there is no black and white. we just live, we live quickly, short, but so interesting and deep and with pleasure, friends, we share with you. these are the destinies. thanks to our heroes for this and today we thank

natalia thank you very much. thank you, natalia . i am a journalist natalia lo seva and we are with a leading clinical psychologist, candidate of psychological sciences mikhail khors podcast psyche podcast paw watch us on the channel one website. the creative industry podcast on channel one is our guest here today, alarson. russian tv presenter journalist roman karmanov, podcast host media manager and ceo of the presidential fund for cultural initiatives and elena is a hyper producer and clicker. hello tuta, hello, tuta or tatiana after all. well, it’s probably clearer for the viewer when they call me mulberry,

because tatyana and here i’m alone here, i grew up on your broadcasts. now it is necessary to tell the guest from the very beginning. i am very pleased when so they say, held pleasant adult chair studios. i've been dreaming so far whether it's true or not. there is a legend that elena dreamed of me and this inspired her to one of her biggest hits. it's true, it's happened that way. we just studied together, in fact, we studied journalism together. it's just at a slightly different time, and they acted exactly, i remember that once together and somehow it all

grew together, then, and then it became the leading channel of the famous. yes, we are still and we are still somehow. well, we creak well. we are fully moving. yes moving for this during this time, how now? yes, well, if in general, because i know a lot there is a branch of already career projects and so on, but spectators. they could be fixed in the past very much in these let's return to the present. list them. yes, but things are, in general, very active, surprisingly interesting and very lively. now, i would say that i probably haven't felt this way in a long time. uh hmm there is a trendy phrase in the resource, but it annoys me, because it is so worn out. i haven't felt in a long time. eh that i

what i do is so useful and, well, real. yeah, well, that's probably the way it is and, of course, we all grow up, we have other interests other topics, including me, of course, after i had them. children, of course, are the topics of parenthood in upbringing. i don’t know there, and in general, she became my next journalistic interest in some kind of personal development , probably a little difficult for those who don’t really follow what i have been doing all these years to imagine that, like in the film man from the boulevard des capucines such a montage. here larsen with an iron tooth all the whole face in the gland. for some reason, people remember me that i was all pierced, although i only had a pierced nose, and it’s not a year, and then all of a sudden a matrona burdened with a large family and a religious one, and so on. well, it's not some incredible transformation. this is holistic. here,

listen. well, that is life. it would be strange if, at the age of 40, almost 9 years old, i would continue to talk about the youth subculture and jump at discos. uh, and be interested in some the new album was released by a group that has also been playing on stage for 40 years. here, of course, i will grow up and my audience will grow with me. that is, he goes, or the audience has increased or changed, that viewer did not find it. it seems to me that the audience has not changed much, it has become a little younger, but we have completely adjusted it, thanks to our children's projects there, because now the whole family and i are filming on a children's tv channel. and it 's funny, like at first the parents grew up on me now their children grow up on mars with you somehow. i didn't do it on purpose, but that's just the rest very funny and now i have a different status in general for some viewers for a very large number of viewers. i'm not here. larsen i'm martha's mom, that is, the children are coming. oh , it's martha's mom, like that, and the parent

says, but we knew you. she will grow you too. well, of course, most of these viewers who grew up with me on mtv , they grew up, they had all the same questions as me, why do i live, what should i do next? what is my purpose, if life after life and so on and so forth, how to survive in this world at all, than does he teach his children? how to save a relationship in marriage? and it's cool that we have common challenges, to which we are looking for answers together, well, it turns out that it is, and even now it is still a dialogue with the viewer who is waiting. even then we were expecting some answers, to be honest, some beacons, after all. uh, mind-blowing people on tv anyway, you know, huh? and it seems to me that , well, in general, everything i do all this, it seems, as if for myself, that is, for first of all. this is, of course, uh, well, exploratory uh my project about myself about my life.

it's just that in the network the questions that concern me, they concern everyone. and if i manage to find some answers or, for example , ask the right question and then we can enter into a discussion with the viewer in some kind of discussion to reason together, then this resonates, as i said once. i liked it very much. this is one wise archpriest. uh, in an interview with me. he said to light, maybe only what is on fire, so i can only talk about what i am in, what i am immersed in herself. well, for example, politics is not mine or economics at all. i don't understand any of this. i can uh, quite well, well, i can talk about it with a pretense of competence, but uh, it will be boring, because in fact i am not very interested in it. that's where family relationships are. children god is something in which i myself am looking for topics and roads and great, that on this path i constantly find myself with my visuals in uh hand in hand. how

are these projects born? that is, these are some, but they come in demand, or do you generate them yourself? they are born from life, you understand? here we are on we love to travel with children by car. we have been going to the anchor gap for 7 years in a row. well, here we are in summer. this anchor gap is not the maldives, nothing is a small little near sochi, as i called it, a tiny village there. well, we are very good there and the road is such that inevitable changes will occur. well , there, the truth is very intimate and nice. that's peaceful. well, there, by the way, a lot of people are bored. there is absolutely nothing to do there. and for me, this is the perfect place to relax and, well, the road. there and back, that is, we go there 2 days with a stop and there somewhere in rostov and it's all so this is a roaddrip - it's an adventure in itself and our project e -travel that we're filming now,

which we are hmm, we won a grant for filming this project has grown from this. it's about traveling with children , family trips, and for some reason it's not obvious such a bright tourist route. e, in small towns, where, it turns out, so many interesting things are happening and such a big story, as a rule, in these places, that you want to tell it, but this is with one hand work. we are filming. we get up early there we go somewhere, i need to powder, but and so on, but on the other hand it's a great pleasure, because we spend the whole day with the family. we discover some absolutely new things for ourselves, new knowledge, new skills, because we have it in every issue. well, there is some history. to the part there is what? you are some kind of children's entertainment there, either an eco-farm, or some kind of amusement park there and , of course, some kind of master class. we were already there and strung beads and lollipops, and cooked they made lollipops themselves and baked cakes. and that

they just didn’t do anything. in general, they are generally infected, it turns out already with this, uh, they are involved identified, for sure. they see themselves inside themselves. in general, leading, as if not at all. although marfa from marfelen 13 in july. and we are six years old in the frame, she is not going to be the leader at all. although, she already has a leading profession in her hands, but she does not even think about it. she wants him to have different options. first i wanted to be a full body doctor, then uh oceanologists and polantologists. now she is writing. she thinks the password of the literary institutes may be. a colleague of uh-huh is interesting, that is, in general, she writes the script for your show or she writes her show, not yet the script. she writes stories and poetry. and now

she has such an application for a fantasy novel something about dragons, but while in short form one two are still busy, in addition to being older, he is 18 this year. he is taking the unified state examination and to be honest, i still don’t understand where he wants to go, because they have changed a lot over the past year mood priorities and his own sense of himself in this world. it is quite possible that we will not go anywhere and will work. we are he. yeah, i don't know, yes, but it's still difficult, of course, to separate yourself from this. but we agreed that i do not interfere in this, he has a silter e career guide, which they published. they're a bunch of tests of some sort filled out. well done. they had a lot of conversations. they identified his blood. yes, there is a search. but somehow he is not yet concentrating in any particular profession, he goes to any particular university

at the open day. we just determined that he is a humanist, definitely not a mathematician. and what it will result in, i don’t know, to be honest, i realized that if i get very involved in this, then i’ll probably go crazy, and i said, look, i’m ready, there tutors tutors support is comprehensive , but i will not put it over your soul about the exam in general, as you know, will you pass it? i will not choose for you, nor a profession, he has a wise mother. yes, in a similar situation, i just went philosophical all the time. whatever choose and in general, but it seems to me that a person after the philosophical in general, maybe he wants to work on the philosophical, and that's it. hands do not reach small. we are 7 years old. hmm, for the time being , we are only seriously engaged in music to study at a music school at the department of folk vakal. it’s just that you have a factory of creative emotions, but it’s interesting, you practically get it,

it means, how to give a blockbuster, probably, to all the target audience. children are boys, girls, and parents, yes, because my husband is also participating , yes, moreover, my husband is a children's coach in karate hmm he has been taking care of children since the age of 4, so he is also very parental. well, his incarnation, parental, it is implemented and professional, therefore, well, somehow it happened with us. well you don't care next to me. the sun is shining, and for you and me the whole day in our bring what where when the summer

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tinkoff card participate in the cashbackpest from may 15 to may 28 and get up to 70% cashback. he is so alone. i sold the air time of the first channel for advertising roma. what are you doing? i'm fine, but that's what the wood burner is doing konstantin sokol kvn major league third quarterfinal on saturday at the first excuse me, we can't do anything here. the creative industry podcast on channel one is our guest host today, we are still elena kiper yes, and

considering our podcast is about the creative industries and your family is so creative. you kind of keep an eye on the competition when you 're making your show 'cause there's so much other content out there that ahh. well , it is more successful only due to the fact that it works at a low frequency. yes, that is, if we are talking about the family and about the family values ​​that you are talking about and reporting, yes, that is, you are showing a model. i would say so, yes, it turns out that this show shows the model of the family. and how do you rate here somehow team. yes, you do it together. no, i don’t know, maybe i was so lucky with the team, but, of course, when we let’s say this, we realized that this topic was becoming our professional activity, that we were like a little bit of a media family. yes, and i guess i looked around, especially when

we went to social networks, uh-huh, and for me it was generally quite a serious violence against myself, because i had this arrogance, a journalist. you know, after all, the journalism faculty of moscow state university is here some kind of blah blogging, and there a girl, an old woman, an unknown animal , they still have millions of views. and i mean with my higher education, there and twenty years of experience media e, barely, there are hundreds of thousands of subscribers scraping together, why are you wondering how you managed to overcome something? you know, i just realized that, well, i kind of have. ah, well, there's my niche, there's the format, there's, uh, the people i talk to. uh-huh and maybe not many of them, but they are very cool. well, as if loyal devotees and we of common value at some point, i realized that being true to your values ​​is more important than having a lot of followers, but being loyal and passing them on to communicate them here, which i

don't have. i don't have a task. that's right, i'm so valuable in general, all of myself. such a solid one. yes, i'll go in such white interestingly. these are the values, what is said about the family well family yes strong family love for children love for life. and how it became obvious to me in the last year and love for the motherland although earlier. i was embarrassed to say these things and it seemed that it sounded very well, well, not yes and not well, how to say. well , no matter how i appropriate it, yes, that is, it is, as it were, not entirely my own. yes, it 's kind of very strong, so generalized that it's there, and now, yes, i'm just ready to sign it in my liver. for me , this is the most surprising thing, that for me it is such a great value - it knows a lot for me. well, it's interesting, uh, after all, topics related to the family, and this is the richest plast

, a huge number of people. it involves in some way themes related to the heroic and overcoming oneself. this is a huge plast in the west whole. in the general industry. built on this. we have people who don't go there very willingly, and so far it doesn't impress the industry. here , uh, here is larsen lonely hero who has sunk. well, it seems to me in a topic with a huge number of children. yes, it so happened that everything plunged, uh, into the topic of the family, there and so on. well, this is a huge industry, where you have already done a lot of things. this industry, it will develop in our country or it will remain so. well, this is a niche tv channel niche. so all the radio stations this is quite all, and hmm for me it's big. the question, because you see, a hmm i'm in the sphere block and in the social network.