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they are inferences. well, we return to our conversation. this is a flag podcast. i'm dmitry bug. i host a literary podcast. let them not speak, let them read and today our guest writer yevgeny grishkovets yevgeny grishkovets did not die. this is a quote from him. yes, he did not return. e hmm in kemerovo e, although this city seems to be you love and fate, which i returned to him. and it seems that yes, and he returned, of course, then he returned for another 2 years and worked there. yes, yes, and then he left. i love him too. well , let's continue after this interlude, which we usually have, uh, in the middle of the program

this time as well. i will read a poem like a modernist, which is named after a surname, a biologist lamarck. this is a famous poem , which you, of course, know, maybe you know, dear our listeners, and this is a rare case when poetry replaces science or she says to the auk or says some very clear thought, the lak said that every creature was immediately created by the lord as it should be, it does not develop anywhere else, not under any material influences, if you have a big nose for a finch bird , there are nuts with small noses, they die, as they teach us charles is crushed by a deeply religious person, by the way. yes, here is lamarck rejected by soviet science in a school that was not studied. just mentioned. he said that with each in its place and in fact it is my god. this is not how we see world, but their own vision. we do not see, but infrared rays. we do not hear sound, but

our own hearing aid. that's right, the bat sees differently, and the hare sees ahead. there , the world turns its head, not as we see it with our senses lamarck. osip is there. there lived an old man, as shy as a boy, a clumsy, timid patriarch who, for the honor of nature, was a swordsman. well, of course, fiery lamarck, if all living things are just a blot for a short escheat day on lamarck's moving stairs. i will take the last step to the rings, i will go down to the barnacles. i ask you to walk among the lizards and snakes along the elastic gangways and evilly shrink and disappear, like a proteus horn mantle put on from hot

blood, i will refuse the sample with suction cups and curl into the foam of the ocean, we passed the ranks of insects with pouring glasses of eyes, he said nature is all in the faults of vision. no, you see for the last time. he said quite full-bodied, and you loved mozart in vain , deafness comes, spidery. here the failure is stronger than our strength and nature has receded from us as if she did not need us and longitudinal brain. she sheathed the dark scabbard and the drawbridge like a sword. she forgot to drop late for those with the green grave. red breathing flexible laughter is

this art or science is very difficult to say and very difficult to say speaking, yevgeny grishkovets, after all, what does he produce? i think this is life. i think it's, well, kind of peeping out in the life of different facets of your art, because it's theatrical art. this literary art is musical art. you call yourself a writer. that is, on that base what you want in a word. this i can say why i insist on this, because, of course, i am not a musician at all. i'm not capable of making music. i do not see her. i don't have my music. i don't know her, i can talk to the music. well, for this i need ready-made music. that is, in general, i am a reciter in this sense, there is, uh, music that another person provides me. i am not a musician. i hmm reproduce on stage. well , the text is written. it is such a text written that can only exist in the form. the play that i perform myself, and she left that i do not do any

one-man shows. i have created a theater in which the author's text can exist . only in this way, and here the author's performance is obligatory. uh-huh this is not a one-man show that can be passed to each other. this is the only one of its kind. e in case. well, such an author's performance has always been a mystery to me, but my favorite thing at the same time. i don't hide it. you probably know this, and all the time it seemed to me that this is not quite the same thing. however, it is not verbatim. uh, pronounced i mean, not like a role. yes, in the theater this is a text that is born anew, or is it every time a new edition of the text of this that is here in front of me once again. let's show this book. this is the first book, which is called the city is a collection of here e. well, you can say earlier, yes things, i don’t know, earlier things, like the first book that was published at the request of the person who heard me on the stage from this legal publishing house . this was the book. i didn't even have

no idea how books should be designed, and this book was. this is how the text is clearly published, i can say what it is here. here is the text of the performance at the same time or at the same time. it is about 30 percent longer than the text of the literary performance, it is longer than the one that is pronounced here, which is published much longer, and something is swallowed there. something seems to be being told. you have movement. you have an opportunity. you have intonation and you have the opportunity to clarify something e no well, no offering volumetric volumetric context. you can grab attention right away. you can collect from him and you can control the attention of the person who is in the hall. that is, you communicate with him not like an actor, who does not see the audience. yes, but he feels i am making a theater in which

i do not hide the fact that in front of me is a spectator for any event in the hall, relatively speaking, a mobile phone call or a fall of some object or something else. i will definitely react. because i hear it, can i tell you a scary story. here i sit whether it was the center on the passionate, or else, maybe the school of the modern play, i don’t remember somewhere, uh, it was hard to get in, i got in and i’m sitting somewhere close to the stage, but like this, uh, on the floor i’m sitting upright, and i have a terribly choking cough, and i carefully take out a lollipop, which is against coughing and, er, evgeny grishkovets, who is standing on the stage, does not see that i have not seen at all. who the hell is that, blackness says. well, unfold your candy, finally, he says, no, tell me that. zhenya is me. i'm still funny because that a person trying in the theater try to be inconspicuous, means sweetie slowly loudly. well, well, the main thing, slow seems that

slowness gives less sound quickly just do it or when a young lady or a lady, and today here's a handbag in the theater. this is how they do it slowly, if only once and for all. it's funny how a man tries. it's okay, uh, going back to the text, and the text that the human is reading. this is a completely different text than what i pronounce on stage. i see that the other is not in the sense of a comma. in a sense, like its functionality, right? yes, your style. this is just literature, and there the monologue is in the form in which i perform it on stage in a different form. this text cannot exist as, otherwise it is impossible to write down, it is possible to write down, but it is impossible to hear anything. e from vysotsky's texts, it's simply impossible to read them. if you don't know

how, you haven't heard how he does it. i say all the time that i'm scared with acting poetry reading. uh, because the actor has to somehow drag the blanket over himself. yes, in an ordinary poem, it does not need any what performers, yes, or only in avtovskih. yes, in this, the whole thing is there were those same poets. e dude was not uncomfortable for me. well, i just don't. hear, akhmadulina was adored reading it so that i couldn't hear it. just for me. it was redundant, yes. it was strange, extra very unhealthy. uh-huh well, from the point of view of some kind of norm, sergey yuryevich is the york language. so uh-huh what i wanted to say, please don't read this one at all. give him all the elements, so that just jurassic yes, because this is not. he he what are you doing? i i don’t know how to read poetry, they never

count them at all, when you pronounce your text, this is a text that lives. there, too, inserted pronounce quickly. but then it's text. still, how would the implementation i have to know how you play it or not? to a lot of people. they cannot read it in prose for the reason that they saw me on the stage and remember how i say it, they speak, and we hear your voice. here we are or we are listening to your voice, it interferes. this results in inseparability. e of the author from his own work in the role of andrei rublev. yes so clown, there goes lead. oh no, not the same. they are the same no, not at all a when a person reads. uh, well, prose, you know, this is not a monologue that comes from the first person , where i am a character who happened something, but this is a book, well, the book should sound in your

own voice, because this is reading, and the one who you listens. it must be natural sozvonchenko's performance began there at eight nine o'clock. yes, to count on those people who are after work. yes, he should, well, how would e empathize with understanding, yes necessarily necessarily he must have, if possible, some kind of education must certainly have. it should have been, well, to- the circle of the corporate one, the address to which i address, a social group of some kind, this is not a lubera, as they said in the nineties, for example, yes, this is it it may well be a person with a criminal past simply, well, at least not a fool, and at least uh, who tried to part with him. mm understands this new life. here we are talking about morality. yes, that is, the art of the sinner so that a person i tried to part with the criminal abandoned, when there was this very

tough period. this is the fashion for me, when at my performances in moscow and st. petersburg, in principle, this was not in moscow , st. petersburg. many fashionable characters came. there are 2,000 of these strange people, such hellish people who started something there. yes the beginning of the zero years. so many of these came, they sat. they didn’t understand at all, they wouldn’t get anywhere, what is it? what fleet about what friends about what kind of work what family in general on what there? well, that's what this person is talking about , i'll interrupt you again. i will not forget your story, there was some kind of creative meeting , maybe even at the russian state humanitarian university at the university, where i served and still serve with joy, where you told how in brazil, uh, i counted the dog and sounded in your retelling. so here i am saying, that is, you are saying that this is a pause, the translator is translating everyone is laughing or somehow there i don’t know how you react, i say, they translate the reaction, i say, period and that means,

there is a scene, famous, when the boys do not want to go to school, either mom, or grandmother opens the door, and it's winter, well, eight or seven in the morning in siberia it's cold, god, how reluctant. well, here is the russian man. well, he somehow understood, anyway. yes, this brazilian man is russian there. transformed brazilian people understood that, uh, that the boy felt bad, because he did not want to go to school. and what is cold for the brazilian cherk? i don't know, maybe he's 15°, uh yeah, it's already cold. yes , of course, this needs to be changed. this would need these are necessarily such emotions, and not entourage . you have a lot of entourage of some such headsets with details , you need to work carefully, but you can never speak. uh, for example, there was definitely some kind of air temperature at that time. well, it's like a status of some sort. yes, there was no temperature, like, uh, where exactly did this

happen and when. hmm, that is, that it happened there, uh, in the year 1981, uh , in the city of kemerovo. and frost. it was minus eight by thirty-eight 45 sometimes children finished school exactly exactly. eh, remarque zhen here another story like this. it seemed to me that just about that moment, about which you just said that some sort of some people come, yes, which, well, that's something cool. yes, they should be offered something cool exclusive and see a person who is one of many. yes, he says i am one of you. i am the same as you, i am one of you, i am no different from you, this is what interests you, and not because i am cool and sophisticated and so on, but it seemed to me that i was beyond some border. you may have ceased to be one of these people. no, i don't think i know what happened, we moved to kaliningrad as adults

. i don't see anything else . there are no changes. yes, i do not think this is not a quick reproach. uh, well, here's the ass on paper paper farewell to paper. why help? this is true? this is exactly the person that one of us from all uh-huh this is the experience of any normal person of our age it will also this performance will be interesting. to those, this is even one of the e people, who are now 20, who with ecstasy e give themselves to digital technologies. let's talk about the end, just about reading our podcast reading, and it is no accident that evgeny grishkovets called himself a writer. this is important here, what happens with reading e forgiveness with paper - what year is it 10 years ago? this is 10 years ago. yes, it's 12-13 something like this, yes, and then it probably wasn't like that. acute. now it's not

something that is acute, but just already even the funeral service. e what is happening now is in itself the reading skills of the process of reading love in general some kind of test. human never in history has a man read as much as he is reading now. well, that is , i never wrote so many signs, and not every day people wrote something, every day people even wrote some kind of note to me. and now they write a lot, read a lot of nonsense and write a lot of nonsense in messages. and after that they cannot read these same letters, but only e in the performance of great literature. uh-huh, magnificent temperature is different, you should not read it. and it must be read, but understood cannot be felt. no, what to understand? i do not understand what you understand became fat. i think art in general. uh, these are the last ones. such

a stubborn little touchstone of the impossibility of technologizing. yes, everything speed up communication there comfortably as you read. eh, you need to read in the way you tend to, with what kind of rhythm do you tend to, if you no longer have a rhythm, if it has already grown in this , you are deprived of learning how to come to it? come on, how to meet your literature with your book, which will reveal to you that reading is the highest pleasure, which is incomparable to anything. and in no case should this be replaced by an audiobook, because it will immediately be all this. well, the screen, especially to read the text, you can from anywhere. it 's not me, i'm telling the truth, in general, i think that yes , a book is, of course, a more perfect medium, but from any computer, even from a phone. you are reading the text. you are reading, mmm. you still consider the original, because you read

the text for reading nothing irreplaceable. and now , uh, then uh, because the book has become the text has become so easily accessible, and it is located you have a monstrous one in some tablet. uh, occupation people read, uh, several books at the same time is oversaturated, and they do not finish reading a single book to the end of course and why ah? well, you already know what happens next. i really liked the phrase. you are not unknown doradona. yes , he says that in order to listen to music, you must first get to the place where it is performed. that is, you need to make some effort. of course , i say that if a person left the house , came to the bookstore, chose a book and brought it home. uh, and even if the book is him in this one turned out to be a complex difficult or painful book or untimely, anyway, there is a high probability that he will read it to the end. and if he does not leave the house, in 1

second he did not like it, he downloaded 100 books to himself. it's great that you can't finish reading any of them, because he has no respect for this. he made no effort. here are those very efforts, yes, about which odorno speaks and, in fact, a bunch of carriers have been struggling since our second. yes , there are always the same number in the courts, and they want to parallelize all this and insert it into our ears. headphones. my god, some other things that are from reading reading. this is the highest form of achieving art. that is the highest form of comprehension of art, literature. in general, this is the highest form of the art of reading. this is one that cannot be combined with other routine activities. you can’t soar your legs in a basin; you can’t watch tv without a phone latch. yes, this is not important. even at this moment, admire the landscape, even the most beautiful. if you read, if you think, if the landscape is not only present in the work you are reading, then this is the landscape that arises in you, but

it arises from letters from signs. this is a wonderful formulation by evgeny grishkovets, which testifies directly to the topic of our podcast, because nothing can replace reading, reading makes us human, reading is the original art, like poetry, which existed before all other arts and e. i am very grateful to you for this conversation, because a lot of hmm from my jingles are verbal slogans. i say, for example, that you can read anything in cuneiform pyruses, if they are available to you. it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter like uh, that's fine. we, if i explain to many, why literature is the highest form of art? everyone wants to see the original. the original is either in the museum of the picture or it is somewhere in the philharmonic, where you have to get there on

mondays on mondays. the museum is not open. they work at night and don't let you in. and you want to see it at night and you, and you need to see the picture, it’s impossible to see it, you take this dear one of yours and at the same time, even if the text is written on toilet paper. it's still great for them. uh, read uh, read literature yevgeny grishkovets i thank yevgeny from the bottom of my heart for this conversation. thanks, see you on our podcast. well, to you, our dear interlocutors. as always, and with the same unceasing pathos from the same intonation , i say, read with pleasure, dear