some work tasks are very correct that we stopped working together - thank you lord if we continued to work together. we would never live 20 years. let's go back a little more. so here. tell us about the circumstances of the divorce. as far as i understand, as far as i know, there appeared information that there was another child, and your yes means, uh , this is the situation in which we, and as strangers, could not communicate with each other at all. it led to the fact that we decided to live in the grove. he is at the dacha in the city. and pelageya knew nothing. well, as if it ’s more convenient for dad to live outside the city. and i was in the city, we came to the dacha for the weekend, we all talked together, and then weeks of normality, yes, and yes, and so it went on. uh, 4-5 months. i did not allow the thought that it was possible, well, if it is bad and there is no happiness, just go get a divorce and find it. other people, that is, it

was something incomprehensible to me. that is, i listened to the stories of others and thought about how they even do it. but this is the husband. this is the stomach, the arm is the leg. how can you unfasten and move on. so when we parted for him, lord , please, do this, so that just here, so that i don’t know what it is, so that the whole world just turned upside down, in four months. so he came and said pelageya would be a sister. that is, god sent me what i asked him, of course, to voluntarily tell me how it was at that moment my world literally collapsed. that is , i had a feeling that they just cut off a part of the heart, a part of how it was, dear, pour me, please, there it is for tea. you know, oh, by the way, plagiarising joy will sister no, but yes. we did have. well, sort of a strained relationship. he just came there to see pelagia. i don’t know, there to kiss her before going to bed, for example, after work and

went to the country. and where is back ? you didn't know he had another woman, not anymore. i don't know, not usually children are made with those. who you have known for a long time. no, it was an accident it was nobody this child was planned, that is, but how could he be such a person, random accident. that's when you left, what are you then like remember, yes, i uh have no idea what will happen next, that is, will we be together with this woman, because it's all just that fell like snow on our heads, but the child will be like, well, i, of course, i was in complete shock. i cried for 2 months 2 months. i was in such a tragedy that, but then i realized that you, as a psychologist, would probably give me an answer here. a it was was actually. at this point

, it was selfishness. that is, like, not because i need him, not because i would like to give birth to this child, but simply that how it is, how it is, someone else is mine, that is, i took something away from me, that is, there was something in it , therefore, yes for men for men. you can excuse me, but are psychologists still here? yes, we make recommendations. some to myself in the plural yes, here are recommendations for men not to drown in women. come on, don’t give up everything for the sake of women, even if a woman is very want and demand. still, leave something of your own, including, yes, even leave yourself too, so that the wife here they can’t, yes, they can’t hear, focus, but don’t drown, don’t chop off everything that’s own, because, firstly,

100% is not appreciated this is perceived as the norm, of course, what does it mean that another person has dissolved in me. this is at first very nice excellent. no. that is, when a man begins somehow to return to his selfhood, it turns out that you don’t need one like that, what is it? ugh? fu, i'm just i belong. it is very important for me that a man be a personality. that is, i would never want him in my life, well, uh, there was nothing but me. well, this is the story told. i, you know, i want to finish this thought . it is very important that i am here at this moment. that is, or rather, when 3 years have passed , i absolutely sincerely came to the idea that through this shock, through this shock, well , first of all, uh, god the universe can call heaven whatever she gave me. that's what i wanted to return the bottom everything

turned upside down, yes, and without this. that is, he i did not give us the opportunity to stretch it out for another year, because at that time we were already 3-5 years old. we were saving our relationship, and it was, but absolutely a regression. how did you try to save this relationship, told him that he should uh be, uh, i’ll dissolve with you again? well, i even, well, how do you say this nonsense like that to him tenderness. i was immersed in his affairs , interested in life would be in my affairs. they didn't let me in, it's not necessary, of course, absolutely of course, when i came home from work, he didn't tell. yes listen to such a deal. yes how to tell because there is a goddess, and here you are with your business, well, it’s impossible in things he told, but, in principle, he didn’t like it when i was the other way around, what’s there, but

tell me how it all was and he liked that your or somehow found hair, what not, but global things. i knew, but there, like, tell me how the meeting with this, like that, but he liked his kind of space to have me in him, you don’t have anything in common, except for pelagia. what are the last 3-5 years about? no, that's the point, because when asked how i'm doing, he doesn't it’s interesting to hear that he doesn’t like it all, of course, that is, this rejection has accumulated, that i didn’t even want to tell anything myself, you know, yes, and that is, but we are interested in his life, how is it possible? well, naturally, i was interested in him, as it were, in life as much as. yes, we have his whole life. in fact, it happened, well, as if in our house, that is, friends all came to visit us because he never liked to go anywhere, so his friends are our mutual friends, they all came to visit us, and we i don’t know there at the big tables by the fireplace, if it’s summer, then there are tables on the grass,

without there talking endlessly. we didn't have anything in common. is not common, here are the friends were common. well, you know, there was an interesting moment, by the way. tell me, as a psychologist, when friends come, everything is fine. i mean, we're interested, we're talking to friends because you're pretending and, uh, pretending to be a happy family of you, you really had a good time, i mean, it was much easier for us with friends than alone, like only the guests left in such silence, and that’s all and we have nothing to talk about. you understand, that is, we continued the topic there i don't know about football about the weather about the police. just that year we were with her and you did not pick up this conversation and he had me for the first time now about this. i think for the first time i thought, but it was just like that, was it possible? what do you think? mikhail and by the way, what do you think natalya could this marriage still be saved? i'll still notice. here is this very important moment when topics for conversations end, not because these topics do not exist. yes,

when we communicate with dear close pleasant people. we don't make that up over dinner tonight. i can do everything for you, yes. this is the same proximity of openness from the news they have of course. yes, they have it gone right? this is good. let me tell you how my wife communicates with her mother. so she keeps a plan for several days, what to tell mom about, my god, and then sits down on the phone and tells, because my wife wants to communicate with mom in general, find common topics and knows that, perhaps, mom herself, well, she won’t do it. here's how it goes. himself a man who wants to find common communication and a psychologist, because there is a mother’s word, and there are other cases of all sorts of medicines between a man, you need to look for guys for me very much, and the call was so shaking, yes, when these

moments come, when it starts to annoy you. well, that didn’t bother me at all before. well, it’s annoying everyday things that you haven’t paid attention to for years, but here in the classic it simply says that there is no love, that’s all about what has come, you understand the crisis, but here we are 5 years of fantasy to overcome the infantile belief that there should be no crises. why should they tell you, you can't hear me, we've been trying to overcome chris five for 5 years. what to do? it's huge. let's try. i suggest that you now hypothetically imagine that there is also a magic barrel that is back at this time and there are these 5 years to your question. it was possible to save the marriage, and how it could be saved was the only way, i believe, but that's not when you felt that the crisis. there, the responsibility is on the man again, this is his

dissolution in life at the waist. yes, it led to the fact that for some time they lived, here in the clouds of lakma, and then the usual real life seemed to them a painful gray. so i need to drive an attitude there, you know what happens to most people after that when they fall there, right there. develop. and what is it called? here is this syndrome, when from there to there? and what do you call the love that we have? and we are not the ruins of disorder. we have not been separated for 7 years. and uh, they just breathed each other. this had to be interrupted, of course, it was breathe without each other. we had to part. it was necessary to think a little like this and decide that or maybe something like this our life is going on, that is , they should have understood at some point that they are each other's detectives before. yes, of course they overheat and it was necessary,

especially since i did not in vain focus on the fact that you have a common cause . yes, he didn’t let go, even in the store just one, so that there was an understanding. i mean, we got caught. hear it already for me, the husband did not let go, that is, 7 years. you sated each other, didn't you? yes, it was overkill. i think that initially, if in these 7 years we are so right, you say that the husband is his own business. it wasn't right at all it wasn't right that he uh got into show business. it was wrong to devalue yourself and be such a servant of you, but at the same time he knew about the triangle. yes, there is a tyrant, a victim and a judge. here he was at first yours, as it were, i don’t know such a savior or served as a victim, but, then he became such a tyrant when e no i won't let you into the store. here i am at all yes

, i was not anywhere. look , it was wrong on your part to get high. like a drug addict to sit on this needle of this constant service, and on his part, of course, it was wrong to dissolve in you further on your part. the mistake was that you obeyed when he said and you won’t go to the store without me, i should have said. to you, dear, i am a free man. i'm going to the store without you, but that's it when i talk. jealous no one lets me go the girls constantly love rice now enjoy it and unmistakably it means when we parted, they each shared that it was a shock for them. and for me it's the norm. it was as if i didn’t understand that it was possible in a different way, because if i ended up somewhere alone, we were on the phone all the time so that he wouldn’t worry that here i live, i’m alive and healthy, that is, roughly speaking, i have there was no personal space, in general it was, well, as if absent in life. we had such a common space. it was wrong. this was. that is you at some point

probability. yes, you understand from this, but although you know, when i got pregnant, i remember this pregnancy, and it was the happiest period of my life, and we became even happier, when i was pregnant it’s true, and we went to talk, hugged to talk to talk, of course now . how do you know? what do you think, is it possible to live with a woman and not feel when she is happy or unhappy or men are happy? you don’t have any evidence that he was happier he acted like a happier person. yes? did he wish maybe we had a much relationship very no she pregnant the skew was creepy. when i got pregnant, he started his own business, he left show business and started, so just when i gave birth , everything was harmonious. i just then thought that it's great that here, it seems that some kind of even, happy

family life has come. and that is, after this beautiful plateau, it began, as i understand it , gradually. yes, yes gradually why because what did you start to resist, what did you do , what did your husband do wrong, that everything was fine, look, first of all, this is another very important point. you know what he said, he tells me, they devalued this fee plato. this is a plateau of exactly happiness in general, in which there were no flashes of these prominences that burn everything out . do you understand this? as bad as it is. well, it was, but let's say, how boring, probably in 10 years. i came to this. after the birth of my daughter, that is, during this five-year crisis. at this time, i lived with the thought that i didn’t care, i want to live in a different life, that i have completely different

needs. i want to travel the world. i need communication. i need emotional experiences because i write songs. that is , i cannot limit myself to everyday life, and at home alone i have nothing to write about, that is, i have no feelings, no emotions, in general. i felt like i was dying. you see, therefore, friends, in fact, finally, friends, if you are not a servant, how are these muses? yes, or if it's not difficult for you yes, choose yourself, too, not a creative person. choose normal people not creative. yes, it's very difficult. it's very difficult. i don’t understand at all, i know when we parted, in general, when people part, they usually go to astrologers as a psychologist. that's it. yes? of course i went too. and they told me that for all the horoscopes there , for all the cards in general. we are the most unsuitable people for each other in general, that is, here, who have nothing in common at all, how we

lived for 20 years. it's because here is our crazy love. see, oh complex. i have a feeling about this story, because on the one hand. and now i see natalya who, well, in any case, very convincingly tells us that she is lucky that she got out of this divorce? well, of course, pretty wounded shabby, but ultimately happy. yes, there is a feeling of some kind of correctness. and it was definitely a gift. uh, the fate of heaven aged in vain. it's true, i don't believe it. you know what i don't believe. it seems to me that this doom is predetermined, that still, at some point we make mistakes that can be avoided. we do not have enough wisdom to prevent them or not enough. we, perhaps, have some kind of humility, lack of pride, in order to correct these mistakes, and then, of course, when the firewood is broken and when, in general,

there is nothing to collect from sawdust. you start to look inside yourself. well why would that be true? i think you know the most important moment, which is that we were just approaching the threshold of forty, somewhere up to 35-40 years. that is, when you clearly understand. and how do you live? uh, your life, whether it's the way you dreamed or otherwise, and you already understand, this is not a mid- life crisis. yes, yes, classic, when we start thinking from one side of death on the other side of our youth. here, a land plot in the cemetery was bribed here, a motorcycle was bought, yes. well, i’m like that, that is, if up to 30, you understand that you are still just looking for and you are still yes, everything is ahead, and at 40 you already understand that, in principle, well, as it were, plus or minus, but you already came. you should already understand. exactly, how you live, you like it. i mean, i'm now living 10 times the, uh, life

that's right for me. well, you certainly admit for yourself new relationships , including them now there are now, of course. right now they are just a hundred times more harmonious than what looks like what you had in the first years with your first one at all. and what in general what distinguishes, and you know, he adores you , so he endlessly and madly, like the first one adores. ah, but how do you know? how did the woman feel? this is proof, of course. i want your feelings. no, of course, women feel, everything if you do not know, they, if you do not know, this is the proof. so we are women, i deify, and then we think that we are such a disappointment at first sight, it was not at all at first sight. but that is, it is so gradual, but for the first time in my life, i felt and felt

what it is. hmm, that's not on. i came to this conclusion. now with you michael speak look with my first husband. we looked at each other, then, when we didn’t look at each other , well, as if we were no longer interested. sasha death. we just turned around. so, in my current relationship, we look in one direction, understand each other, and in one direction, that is, e, this is a relationship in which you are endlessly interested in talking, in which you are interested in watching the same films , e, sharing books that you read and ask for an opinion about them, where do you like to walk around the city and the person likes to walk around the city on foot, for example, well, that is, from the little things in the relationship in time. 4 1/2 years if a crisis comes you will keep this relationship, or also say, give me a sign like me natasha, we have crises. even now yes. tell us, probably

, at 2-3 years old, how would they first begin like this, and when we have a crisis and we happen, well, it’s comfortable for the two of us to just take a break. that is, for example, we do not know there 3-5 days a week. we just don’t communicate, that we can put our heads in order, so that, well, somehow, look at the situation in a different way and then it’s possible to talk and already look at everything differently, well, somehow us like this, if you with this wisdom of the time would have returned there colleague the first crises. could the story have developed differently in your relationship, it could not, because i spoke from the very beginning of the position. this is how we had it. in general, another unwound comes such constant happiness, i did everything right for me and i live happy, well done. i made this. right. i meant that it was right that we broke up. yes and

this is it, as if you, uh, carry such a motto, as if you are learning not to be afraid of divorce. yeah, i get the feeling all the time it's like you're talking to yourself. don't be afraid of divorce. yes yes yes. my life has become happier. yes yes yes, well, that is, why well, i myself am an example of this. why do i say, because every six months , when i drive up to that house, where you were together, where you were happy to give, you just don’t have to deny it, you understand? natalia is a page 100%, 100%. it doesn't matter, it's yes and uh to beat your heel in the chest, that divorce is the best thing that happened? it's strange to say that divorce is a wild tragedy, it's also strange, but life goes on, normal human oh friends. what a conversation we have today, we continue to write a book, the best most interesting book of ordinary lives of ordinary judges, in which there is no absolute happiness, there is no absolute grief, there is no black and white.

we just live, we live quickly, short, but so interesting and deep and with pleasure, friends, we share with you. these are the destinies. thanks to our heroes for this and today we thank natalia thank you very much. thank you, natalia . i am a journalist natalya loseva and thought, leading clinical psychologist. go. yes psychological sciences mikhail khors podcast psyche podcast, paw subscribe and watch us on the website of channel one. hello dear friends on the air of the first channel podcast of the melodies of my life today we have a guest of the people's artist of russia a great musician and my great friend and

storyteller igor butman igor well, in fact, melodies are what makes our life magical and through them when you need remember something. we remember everything to the smallest detail, so i will only give modest, leading questions, because i all know that the charm of a conversation with a friend. this is talking about yourself today only about you, my dear so the melody of childhood. well, everything that is connected is clear that she is not alone, but uh , just to uh thanks to this melody , lean and remember at all, how from the moment when you remember yourself? you know, i was probably all, well, about two years, when i constantly listened to the same song, i found this record, put it on the old ruler, belarus there was a receiver and

a record player and there was a song, who said with marina marina marina even hid this record from me, my grandmother hid it, but i still found it. i am some kind of italian, he also has such a surname, and the author remembered rock grenades. but you know, there could be someone from the south of slavs, do you remember there that it was him i recently took this record to listen to again. well , it seemed to me that you were sawing female voices, but perhaps, but, and everything that is on the internet is all about the rock of the pomegranate and others drank. eh, and i still remember, we almost catch. you're right my favorite, that is this song is enough such. well, old, but we had it on a record from this. well, do you remember these were such bonaseras, too, but it could have been, and such a plastic, in my opinion,

there was a plastic record or a very small minion like that. so i heard this song on it and i was torn from me from this melody. yes. well, i'd run myself. long before, when philip kirkorov performs this song with pleasure, long before them, igor mikhailovich, probably from kirkorov , i performed it. no, of course not. well, first of all, your mother is mariola, yes, that is in fact, the root is too grandmother, beloved, grandmother, marina borisovna, with whom we lived

for a long time and she is wonderful. in general, this is us, the most important in our family in terms of pedigree , therefore, of course, marina marina, i also called marina grandmother. no, i had another song that our neighbor's dad sang. it was also a song youth borispochemkin wrote this song. and then, too, that's all, it 's us, they sang there, it's our neighbor. it appeared wonderful in our house. yeah well, how do they have fun? i'm not looking at hmm this one a sad note because your dad and i even played together. e you have? oncology in jazz dad is a brilliant drummer, uh, mikhail solomonovich is excellent. well, that's nice, which is great. he played and it's nice that we can remember while our parents are alive, someone is standing between us for eternity. this, of course , is grandiose, tell me, but nothing from childhood

hmm foreshadowed jazz is hidden, then yes, that is, i absolutely liked the ordinary wide melody. i liked all the music. e. well, especially pop music what was popular back then, and in general, i grew up as a drummer. i also took chopsticks at home doing twos. there was a game going on. uh, we had a piano, but i didn’t go to music school, but a girl came to do it. on me there such private hands prepared. we can music schools. for some reason, i studied for 3 months or maybe six months, and then we left the city center and arrived from the fontanka. to the market, which is called the jolly village, so, yes, and now , somewhere, 3 years have gone altogether. just for sports for hockey there i don't know for anything, anything nevertheless. yes yes in general, yes at the same time. yes, a little later, even at a music school, a little later came at the beginning captured. you are

actually e titled cysts, not even according to your today's exploits. in the night hockey line, not only a for friendship with all the main hockey players of our time, but also because you were looking for leningrad on a professional level. also a work of hmm academic music and mozart and even there the roman braids flight bumblebee. but young igor butman and rock and roll. here's what i'm interested in. this is what a joint it appeared. i met another guy at a music school. to study with our teacher and they stole aleksandrovich sand and he was a fan of rock music, he had records, she had a comet on her. eh, the tape recorder is still even the fourth form, and we became friends for coming to him. ah, well, we picked up the guitar at school. it

started with the guitar, but at first there was a repertoire, a local-instrumental consul of songs, they showed me the chords there, i became there study. i know for sure, and here we are with this jan , he brought me home and put the horn on the record, and i was stunned, and who was it? it was a diploma about the maiden album, jan is a live album and that's it. i was amazed, but the fact is that i think i was captured not only by the music of the diploma, how they perform what is jazz notes. there were already there, that is, with a huge, so to speak, pressure, a huge volume drive, and in general, not uncomplicated melodies, but played with such with such dedication, both jon lord and ritchie blackmore were heard and bian pace the drummer. it's just for me as a young drummer, yes, but it's a stunning impression that he

talks like that on the hat. yes? yes, yes, and this is yanteis - it is, in general, a derivative of jazz. the badrich drummer is very close in terms of sound and style. e. well, ritchie blackmar. well, his virtuosity with the guitar is also noteworthy. well, jazz swing solos. there's lazy, let's say, yes , jon lord plays there or there, he quotes dukan, i have him there. uh, speaking of purple association, i heard at the beginning, like at my grandmother's dance stayed in the city of perm and to dance it, in my opinion, the seventy-first year or not , a little later 74 seventy-fourth, because uh it was uh it was a hit from the manhand, but not hyped uh, but a song called space racing yes, entry baba pap these syncopations, as well as there, of course, flourished. and

what's your song? well, of course, water could. well, this is the greatest riff of the times of the peoples in the music stores in the world, usually in the guitar department it says smoke factory and the stairs in runeba. well done damn it, don't play because sellers need to be taken care of. as it is, well, it is clear that everyone knows this. here it is yes, sometimes we sometimes we even insert our oleg neatly wonderful you know, i really liked it, in my opinion, it was called mr. kakanat somehow, when now it’s already a familiar genre in the lounge style, there you can take some kind of salon rock hit and beyond recognition. it was made here this collision in bosonov. i mean, there's an orchestra playing it all right there. we're just

different. when we play sacred, benny goodman, then i'm left alone and some melodies. uh, what come to mind when inserting once i came. here is the melody he was able to do at the factory, and then we switched to the road, our evgeny, by god, played horn eduard even played here , so to speak, with a belt lifter, oleg neatly sang he could, he forgot, and we just went from jazz, so to speak, to the unfit, then returned back because the concept had to be finished. igor has now listed the brilliant musicians from igor will be there and edikzak edik hello to you and zhenya by god, and i am very pleased that oleg is exactly yours pupil was mine. oh yes, a hero hero in one of the seasons of the voice program where oleg, of course, just revealed himself as a brilliant jazz musician , he was well known in circles even before participating in

the voice , but now virtually the whole country knows him as a brilliant guy. i want to say that oleg is unique, he sings in any language of the world in any language absolutely without any accent, which is absolutely surprising, and he is able to remember. e blind from birth man so developed his skills. uh, memory that he actually uh him, well, you say a song, let's say i told him flamy something zamun in russian . he told me valery a trifle, just don't speak, and she said he reproduced it and he shines now, uh, igor's in the orchestra. just in full growth it's nice to remember the brilliant musicians thanks to the visit of a friend, and the first jazz igor, this acquaintance with jazz, and i want to uniquely say that he is one of the main arrangers now in the moscow jazz orchestra, nikolai la vinovsky, the same legendary uncle kolya who, uh, led by

allegro and we boys understood what it was absolutely, not reached in height by the possession of tools. here's how your transition from hockey to jazz came about. the thing is that at the rimsky-korsakov music college in those years , in leningrad, 1975, uh, a decision was made in the central committee of the party to open a jazz variety department in music schools and conservatories on time. well, because there was not yet rock that captured the minds and jazz seemed the least of two evils, because people improvise cultural music. still they think are interested in developing many directions. the horn was still more foreign music than jazz, because it was a more popular rock musician, roll captured the minds of the whole world, so it was decided to make jazz

jazz music a professional professional ensemble. such as nikolai levikov arsenal alexei kozlov e, orchestra. well arrows got jazz status. we opened the school and i appeared. he studied at the music school on the clarinet. and about a man named gennady holstein, a wonderful saxophonist in the soviet union, about whom leningrad legends in moscow legends. and although we at that time no longer began to play the saxophone and engage in early music from the 17th-18th century. i saw him all the time. uh, i saw saxophonists at the school. uncle misha from ddt then. it was mikhail chernov, oleg forged in all the head of the leningrad population. it was all people already. they were older than i was 14, and they were already under 30. but then they were generally old people, and accordingly, when they are, and sometimes they didn’t give concepts, it was a complete delight. first, they are magnificent tool compartments.

not that we are theirs. although i studied the guitar, it was all wrong, so to speak, and on the clarinet i already played the classical president, quite complex, and somewhere i took a saxophone in one of the palaces of culture, he took it. and he sounded me. i realized that i, i said, i play on the internet, then you switch to sex, out. and so i switched to safon well, if , accordingly, as soon as safon appeared, jazz jazz melodies immediately appeared. well, one of the first is fallen leaves, right? and it was the first fountain. well, are you on time? yes no, great melody, nightmare, yes , uh osman girl and it was revelation the americans played and we played and the melody is not so difficult to remember, but it gives such a musical jazz fantasy that it is simple.

you have to draw for 10 years in a row for 5 hours a day, or i 'll give them up. let me introduce you mikhail alexandrovich vrubel, i dream of becoming your customer. i have enough of my own whims to fulfill someone else's. i have conceived one composition, but i can't finish it. misha blames himself for everything believes that this is punished for everything. he comes every day from early morning and rewrite it will be jubilant to do the secret great artists, as ordinary mortals cannot

be premiered on sunday at first today we enjoy the melodies of my friend igor first of all, i remembered the wonderful moment of our close acquaintance with you. the fact is that i, uh, in the moral code, the group of serezha mazaev kolya keldeev igor played with them somewhere in moscow and in fact we met. so, well, at a friendly level, the hats shook each other hands and high. we even talked a little bit , and i knew that there is such a grill, will be further in the ninety-sixth year. i'm a married woman who's expecting a baby. as tourists in february 906, i fly to america , see new york and return with the artist

more red. i see a man at the airport whose face seems very familiar to me and i ask borya the red. it wasn't by chance that igor was on that boris so that's a joke or a prank he told me, it's his brother.