hello this is a podcast of the psyche. my name is natalya loseva. i am a journalist, and my co-host is a clinical psychologist, phd in psychology, mikhail khors hello dear friends. here we unravel the most complex tangles of human relations and even more lives we write such a book. judging for you, dear friends, heroes come to us with their difficult, but very sincere stories. we listen to these stories. we analyze them and many of you will recognize, perhaps, a reflection of your own life, but it is also important understand that these stories are not that complicated really. it is possible to solve these difficulties and problems. the main thing is not to be silent about them, our today's heroine, a real excellent student. her name is evgenia petrikova, 32 years old. she is the mother of your children, really, yes, and you came to us from your situation full of drama. i understand that your mom gave your

dad. conditions what was the condition? yes , unfortunately my parents divorced and the problems are as follows. i cannot accept that after the divorce my father had another woman. and now i've become my part worse to communicate with his father. i began to forbid my children from appearing in his apartment, but simply because i have some kind of internal stopper, and i can’t do anything about it. how old are you eugene i am 32 years old. you see, you are, of course, absolutely amazing. yes why did the divorce happen? as far as i know, it was my mother's initiative, and my mother decided to play, but probably outplayed herself. maybe, what happened? what's the condition? yes, my mother, she really, but thought that divorce could help, on the contrary, restore the family. they communicated quite badly in the last 15 years before the divorce, especially badly, and in the last 5 years before the divorce. they stopped communicating altogether, that is, 200 altogether. yes, they lived

together and did not talk, and my mother, she simply did not know how to deal with it, to be honest, with dad. she didn't specifically say anything. she is the kind of person who does not really like to discuss, especially some psychological problems, unlike, for example, me. and here she is, but she decided that if she gets divorced, that is, she will bring the situation to a close. to extreme point to peak then, maybe dad will change and pay attention to the problem that they have not spoken for 5 years. something needs to be done about this and he will return to her, as if changed. and she how old was at that time at that time you know, honestly, i'm not very good with mathematics. mom, i can count the sixty-eighth year, and in 2018 my dad divorced the sixty-sixth year. and you have a large family. yes, a large family. yes, and relatives were simply shocked that our family had broken up. we have four children , the oldest. and why in shock, in shock, because in fact my

parents always played in public. the role, as it were, of an exemplary family, and dad, when they went to the theater together somewhere, for example, or somewhere else to visit. dad always hugged mom and looked after her, that is, defiantly everything was decorous and decent. so my parents got divorced. ugh and suddenly. i understand it was completely unexpected for my mother. dad didn't remember. yes, i ran to my mother. yes, yes, i brought another woman and i brought her, as i understand it, to the house in which i grew up yes, to the house in which i grew up but it did not happen so soon, then yes a year has passed a year after the divorce, he brought this woman. and my mother's mother was waiting for him. a year later, you found out, yes, i found out about this when i brought it unknown. maybe earlier. by the way, there are such versions. yes, his mother is waiting for him, that is, they parted after a divorce. uh-huh so it turned out that my mother went to some other apartment, a rather

wealthy family. dad stayed in the apartment in which you grew up four children, your large large family, that is, your father's house. yes, that's right, and there now where went, your mother in the baths that your mother washed in the kitchen in which she cooked, especially bedroom to bedroom, which we don’t know how. well, somehow a marital lie was shared, despite another woman living in a crisis. yes, that's right, and you can not accept this situation. yes, i still cannot accept this situation. the problem is that initially, when he brought her, my younger brother still lived there. that is, we are the younger brother. he was forced to live, it turns out that in the same apartment with this woman, this, of course, is not for him liked it. and he had not yet reached the age of majority. and he lived for 2 years. it turns out with this woman and then entered the university and went to moscow. in our country, in principle, in cheboksary, many leave for moscow to study. yeah, so i tried to at least talk with my dad. but maybe they can meet in another territory or

something. well, or just my right, as an older sister, they tried to be a manager. i tried to at least get some advice. hmm, wouldn't that have a bad effect on the boy? that is, as if on my brother, because the brother himself openly said that he did not want to live with this woman. well , dad didn’t really care if he wanted to or not, and his younger brother was 16 years old at that moment. yes, 16 years old. yes, that’s what the request is now, if you try to isolate it from you to mikhail as a psychologist, what would you like to figure out from me, i ’m like that as a person. well, i think it's appropriate. i understand that this is how everyone actually lives. and that's okay. how so? well, civil marriage, that is, they get divorced, let's say then they don't got married, they didn't get married, and me it's here, especially working out with my mom was normal. yes, they were still. things about clear, and they didn't get married and you really care that they live in a civil marriage or you care that this woman comes

into your mother's bedroom. it worries me that more, that it is they who live in a civil marriage more. that is, this woman, of course, has me worried in the capacity that she is an unofficial spouse, but they share it turns out. here, that is, if they were officially married, you would not be here with us. came and would not want to solve your problem, because i don’t know how i would react 100%, but i suspect that i probably would n’t come to you, because in fact the parental attitude was from childhood that , well, as if there should be only an official marriage, and once an excellent one, and you understand that everything should be very correct, but here it’s wrong. yes? yes ok. you want michael to help you. focus now, let's try to answer. honestly, first to myself, and then michael will go. do you want to mikhail helped him to accept this situation, how should i take it easy or build such a strategy of behavior so that they eventually

get married. formed relationships. no , i would like her to disappear altogether honestly, i would like, uh, that i accept this situation, because if she disappears from the apartment. no, why do i need this, that is, in fact, i personally have nothing against her. i just have a real installation that it's bad that my dad is now living with an outside woman, and they are not in official marriage and for me it is a sin, let's say, that is, as a person of orthodox self-consciousness i support and accept. so i would like to, but at the same time i understand that my dad he is already an adult to decide for himself how he should live and how he should behave? i understand that he has the right to do so. he has the right to live like this, but for me the dramaturgy is that in the end i can’t help myself, and i limit the children from him. that is, to him on the territory of the apartment, for example, i do not let children. i just can't because there there are photos of them all over the place, for example, and i can't take them. new woman yes, with a new

woman, and you literally talked about this topic with her. i talked to him. she didn't do anything to me. no, you said, look, maybe there's some way there to formalize the relationship live. well, i talked about this with dad more than once, that is, with her somehow not for very long. yes, with dad, as it were. well, he does not want to formalize anything after the divorce , they divided the property in half. and he said he was disillusioned with the judicial system. and he doesn't want michael to catch me now in something this situation. it seems to me that evgenia is not entirely sincere, because he is deceiving us. and it seems to me that he is deceiving himself. let's try to figure it out. i'll watch, i don't see eugene some kind of insincerity, to be honest, for me, you see it quite sincerely. that's another question, that your emotions are dictated by certain opinions. yes, you think that opinions are correct about this situation, i don’t want to eradicate it. everyone really want to get rid of it. you understand that this prevents me from living, because i cannot be like someone from

he once taught you this diverse and man. dad has the right to live as he sees fit, but i sincerely can’t accept this, i still can’t mother in my soul. no , don't be sorry, no, i'm not sorry, she lives normally. i mean, that's what she did. yes , mom has some grievances. here's how to share it. yes, my mom and i communicate very well, well, much more than with dad. well, well, since childhood, she was just a very good-natured person, but, of course, after the divorce to dad. she's downright evil, but she still believes that someday they will not be reunited, that is, she does not lose hope. and, that is, her mother has partners now and she is not going to look for a year, moreover, she is pretty with her. in principle, there are many fans who tried to somehow look after her, but she is not, that is, she is not going to, even she is waiting for him. in fact. it depends here's some kind of estimate. give it to mom.

what is she like in the end, based on this situation, that she initiated a divorce under 50 years old. ah, in order to teach someone something, that she still waiting for a man who has been living there for years with others with other women, but still there is one woman, well, a little mechanics. yes, it is in the clouds. she's so romantic, i guess i got a little bit of it too. why did i ask several times about your brother's age, your mother. maybe we are infantile people hmm yes, this is flying in the clouds, more precisely, it is called infantilism. yes, i agree. yes. and infantilism is what, you can tell our viewers, i myself am not a psychologist. i don't know but i guess if by myself someone, probably a little more joyful some kind of view of the world. maybe some infa, this is a child, right? this is not an adult. so that

's infantilism. this is the inadequacy of one's own and physiological age of the social no. adekva. yes it's true. yes, there is exactly that, so the only way to deal with infantile is to grow up not physically, yes, but intellectually, socially there, which means morally. here, and further on, here you have a wonderful phrase, you said, i am an adequate person, that is, i meant this phrase. yes, i understand that now, well people can live adults people decide for themselves how to live and that's fine. well, from the point of view of society and society, that dad has this woman, but the indoor unit does not let me in, even my feet on the threshold of his house, that is, yes, why? because you have further? it seems to be in words the normality of this is recognized. i want to dock, but emotionally

no why? and because we have an attitude, yes, there should be only an official marriage. see, i'm quoting. it's bad that dad doesn't live in an official marriage. 100% you are correct. and now an important question for you also yes, since you joined this opinion natalya why is it bad that dad lives in an unofficial marriage proof of this statement? well, well, look, yes, since you can already come to me and i’ll start, and then evgeny’s fabulous point of view. see. but when we accept certain foundations of christian morality, we do not question them, because these are already questions of faith , questions of beliefs, and so on. i would not now , in fact, it is to focus, because if you are, well, like any christian, then your answer is this, because that i believe in it, because i believe in it, because these are the obligations that we declare with the symbol of faith, but there is another question. again, you and i know that this

applies to any situation in christianity. what are we doing? we cover with love. yes, we understand that man is weak man. weak, yes, the lord loves us in any way, which means that we, as it seems to me, should. well, at least strive to at least try to love too. uh-huh people, especially dad question is always how to love? yes, this is this, this is the same uh, like any in fact book on practical psychology, which is now a million yes, you must have read it once. you are fond of love, then love yourself do not tell how people. russian in hollywood from a to z americans b gangsters in ladovin, d. head of toe jay your proofs f. ezh f z your health and

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pope it hurts when you don't bring your children to him, dad hurts. no, not him, sorry too. i just can't help it. and why does mikhail think that dad does not hurt, what is eugene to him, because it is unknown whether it hurts dad or not? yes, nothing in fact, but in reality it’s not confirmed, even if dad tells you that it hurts, although he doesn’t tell you, says aha means, even if he tells you, it’s not a fact that it is so. ah. say it again, that's an interesting thought. uh-huh, because maybe i'm wrong that he's in pain, maybe he says that for other reasons. ugh well done. maybe he wants to fix this, at least the situation and make sure that i still have him more often was at least due to the fact that i sympathized with him. of course, i sympathize with him,

but still do nothing. i can’t, that is, you can’t do anything, this is also a mistake. we'll talk about yours now. well, here's the first one. yes, you do not know what is going on in the minds of other people, even if they tell you something, this is a very thought that i would never have thought of myself. now this is really great. yes, it's good that we still didn't interrupt you. yes, and then it's like this for you. finish this thought. yes great, little brother. yes, this is the story. i, too, is important separately, you respond with pain to you. it is also important for me to separately consider you said, so my younger brother was forced to live with him and endure the presence of this woman is a lie. uh-huh it was your little brother's choice. he is 16 years old, 16 years old. people of our generation have already left home. eh, so they went somewhere back and forth. yeah, but people of the previous generation at the age of 16 already plowed where

they built bam and so on, they don’t know that the generation of today’s 16-year-olds is much more much less mature your brother is infantile, if he wanted to leave, he would have left uh -huh and why, by the way, he didn’t go again, don’t interrupt, natalya tell me you agreed that brother, if he wanted to leave, i’m now thinking again. you give me a completely different point of view. great not in vain would be a professional. yes, i thought, in fact, because my brother had a choice, but just a good home, where to provide him, back and forth on free bread or to go to you or something else yes, a choice for mom, that is, mom mom moved out to another apartment. the only thing and my mother felt sorry for herself, well, it turns out her son, because she moved out to a odnushka. dad stayed in a four-room apartment. well, that is, brother, in fact, he made a choice in favor of comfort. yes. and you still feel sorry for him. yes and

you still do it completely to him and some kind of resentment yes , you overload your nervous system, thank you, yes, that is. it would be unfair, michael, imagine, here is a large family, four children, and now dad stays with a new woman in a four-room apartment, and the boy has to go with his mother to one-room but that's not fair. and who decides? what is fair? do you even word justice? here's how, study what it is there two roots natalya tell the root etymologically this word. true uh-huh and the word to know, that is, to understand to know. it’s great to understand that it’s to know the truth, but the truth is a description of reality as it is, cool, i didn’t think about it from this angle at all, but i understand that you are bad for the right, because everything adds up. if you think about it, he really did the choice and his mother offered him, in fact, she said, but if you are uncomfortable, come to me, well, he said, that and a

bigger bed. you see, yes, that is, spiritual suffering crossed over, that is, brother. he said that no matter how much i dislike living with this woman, but he still remained there, yes, that is, the action was that he stayed, but mikhailo well, purely mathematics. well, we are together, acquired property, four children gave birth to four children. this junior has not yet raised, he is 16 years old. you don't have it yet raised. and you have to raise them. that's why they are so infantile that we raised them with our children. i help them. well, well, well. let's call it. you p- but this is just the father. i can't imagine a situation that i don't have to insult. oh, especially my paternity. that's why help children. this is one thing, you know, to raise good ones. by the way, you understand. uh, how many more times are there three kids? i have three. yes, three, here's a good adviser for you. and you will surely honestly support me, and little peanut is just learning walk 9 months, just super falls.

what do the majority do? raise mothers passing by running. yes? yes, you need what the crazy father of the version of natalya does. he comes up on his knee next to him, gives a pen and says, come on, how beautiful you are. i will help you. here i am right here. i do not stand on the sidelines, i smoke indifferently. yes, but at the same time i don’t drown in this child, rather, blow , knock on the floor three times. here from here. they are infantile with us, yes, that we are raising them . natalya, they helped with these children, but you don’t need to directly at all, but to speak. well and there how close are you here, as mother did about yours, that means the youngest. come here, i'll take you. uh-huh, and then you always make a decision, and eugene is like mikhail to you, yes, but the question is such a yup. it's not clear e nature of the association, when you talked about

the father and the child, but nevertheless, they arose for me. look, your father, perhaps, also needs some kind of dialogue , some kind of your support.

as a man, a separate personality, no , evgenia just perceives in this whole situation dad as a separate person, they how is your dad? you understand, you climb to him with your moralizing, not as a dad, but as a separate peasant whom you teach how to live? am i really not teaching him how to live? i just say the opposite, so i don't know what to do. of course, i understand that you probably do not climb. yeah they don't ask for forgiveness. i just didn't agree on a word, yes, that's it. but when will you start treating him exactly like a dad? dad is a husband, mom is not a husband, mom, but dad that's when it will become

easier for you. it's hard for me to perceive him a little, directly, as such a cute beloved dad, and do not always deceive. if you are offended by him, you are completely at least inside yourself, but allow yourself this resentment, but why are you so, and force yourself to be nice and good with everyone. you are so-so. this is your strategy personality. tell here. what is especially painful and offensive to you uh-huh in this situation. well, probably, michael said to take it as a dad after all. yes , it’s difficult for me, because in fact, i seem to be already an adult. i already seem to have experienced this insult, but in childhood. in general, i was the only person. but when dad he loved, he was quick-tempered, in principle, such a person, he loved to quarrel and childhood. i had a heavy one. i think from the point of view of psychological pressure, as it were, on

me and on all other family members, but here i am the only one who from dad, for example, say, dad could get angry out of nonsense . here there is some small mess, for example, or the number of cutlery, or it differs there, let's say by one. and it could turn into a terrible mat. now he has changed, by the way, now he has changed. now he doesn't act like that anymore. after the divorce, especially he has changed. but in the meantime, i was little since i was three years old. it was a solid mat, that is, behind the scenes, but people always swore about it, and the outside is an ideal family, right? yes, that's why i ran to my mother, it seems to me that i emasculated my daughter a little , uh, the feeling of my daughter, as if to him, maybe, that's why she's still so pretty. i want to be how it can be a defensive reaction in order to somehow survive in this world to adapt or so that dad does not i swore so that no one would swear , because, well, i saw that dad was swearing, and how i would argue with him, that is

, i argued very actively, but now they stopped, it happens sometimes. but look, i'll give you such a task. try this. take a sheet of paper. write a letter well? where do you write, and the grievances that you have against him and the one that we explain, and especially those children's ones. and what would you write, for example, i would write about of course, about this obscenity is constantly very loud and there were insults large is also my address, including the general address, well, other family members, that is, i was told that, roughly speaking, i am a piece there. why manure, which can be trampled back on the ground? if anything, that is, i heard a lot of things during my childhood, it was hard. yeah , that's why i was still glad, including leaving for moscow, as if to enroll in studies. here, i understand you very much, and here i don’t even see the point at this stage of your life, this is it, let's rotate everyone. there it is no is. here i am sure, in fact, what are you up to

the end did not get angry at dad. for this, yes , they didn’t allow me to live this anger at him right away. i have had such attempts, but, apparently, not to the end. and when will you write out this piece of paper. so fold. let her lie down natalya do not interrupt to lie down. then open and something else. add it there and only after that decide you know everything, i would really, probably, then add it. yes, that's exactly what happened and they acted like this, and then only after that. yeah, decide, give it back, they drank it or not to give it to dad, nightmare is very difficult exercise. but i think it's worth it. you entered the cambridge mgims and became an excellent student, this is also to prove to your dad that you are not a piece of this plant at the brain level, it seems not, but at

the internal level, most likely, it is there. i think so, that is, on an internal level. i probably wanted to show, dad, well, it’s worth watching something, i studied on a budget, it turns out that i entered 4 years of bachelor’s degree myself, and in cambridge. unfortunately, there was no opportunity for our country. that's free to learn, so daddy paid i spent a million in total on living on everything, that is, on education. uh- huh, it was paid. yes? thanks dad. yes, let's go back, then, to a look at the situation with illegal marriage. yes? yes illegal, so illegal. yes, yes, yes, what do you think, if dad will formalize? relationships, who will be the heir to all his property the first heir hmm such an interesting question, well, i don't know, but if dad could choose, i think he would his son no

by law. don't know if god forbid something happens to a person unexpectedly, and his will is either not written, or hidden somewhere and no one has found him, the main heir to all the property of a person is his official by law. uh-huh husband not children, did not know, but a spouse or spouse. i understand, you know, i don’t know, that’s where the growth comes from. maybe your dad is protecting you. well, you see, yes, he did say, something similar, but he said that i was disappointed, like in the judicial system, that they divide everything in half, it turns out, and i don’t want to go through this again go through here, maybe he it had in i mean, i’m thinking now, michael got to the point so much. in fact. maybe he is protecting you, maybe he is. well, tell me, now it's out loud itself, so that it doesn't

sound from me. maybe the pope tried to protect us in this way and is still trying. and tell me, this again, maybe the pope is trying to protect us. in order to leave her acquired property to us, and to the woman how old well, approximately, it seems to me, she is seven years younger than my mother, but in fact, she now lives with her dad, you ask, yes invests in these relationships, but she is not legally protected in any way, so she is the victim here, probably, but unexpectedly. yes , she may be the victim here, but, by the way, i told dad, that's constantly on the phone dad, well, marry 4 years. well, well, now i understand why, perhaps, he does not marry, perhaps, he, as it were, is trying to protect us. well, and himself

, probably, after all, maybe there is nothing, so maybe he is not completely sure of her, but that's normal. well, yes, by the way, i’m not completely sure about it, i don’t know, but he says, or maybe i won’t live with her at all for a while. this is what is called not entirely sure that dad is even possible. without reporting. just like mother evgenia, somewhere deep down inside, i hope that she will return and there will be a family again, as it was, maybe we can’t get into the soul of a person. just don't count on it , didn't count on it. he once said this for a day, maybe we will get married again in 50 years. that's 50 years from now. how old will they be like i think it's a joke, right? he says to me, well, why can't you accept it? we don't think about it. i say, well, i can't help but think pressure, but believes, i can't

believe in the formula formula informal. yes it is bad, and i already asked a question. prove it, here it is natalya, the proof is simple. well, like all strongly religious people, and this is bad, because i believe in it, right? okay, well you're something more like a rational person. and somehow why is it bad? why is this bad proof? my mother is a medical doctor, and from childhood she, as it were, taught what i say, like, like, well, as in the classics, i spend these, not drinking, not smoking and having only one partner. that is, like, and if supposedly this partner is changing, then supposedly, this is bad for health. i don't know it's anyone for the health of a man who changes partners or a woman. well, probably here we are talking about dad, who changed. well, there is, er, the only one. uh-huh, some more or less data

about what a woman can be. this is bad. ugh, a man. he is actually polygamous by nature. uh-huh and this is scientifically sound information. i'm just an expert there. i i just don’t know, that’s why i specifically wanted to protect us from such a scenario, so why can’t we harm our health? explain everything you drove me into a dead end, you know, we defeated the issue of victory or something. see what's important, yes, the more we own these fantasies that are inadequate to reality, not corresponding to reality faith as true, although once again the truth is that which corresponds to reality. you are a man. i am a woman. this corresponds to reality. but this is bad or it is impossible to harm health. yes, you can live out of this is better not to harm health. but listen, we have health not only, uh, we have physical health. also mental health . yes, michael, you see, likes to draw conclusions. nothing substantiated, he says, so

convincingly that people believe in it, study, by the way, if a person spends years because of a spoon. psychic, how does this affect his mental health? how does this affect the mental health of the children around? yes , they negatively influence very strongly, and mental health is a state of nervous system, and the state of the nervous system - this state of the whole body is absolutely absolute. that 's all. you see, there are no definite decisions to live together with one partner, no matter what it is good for health, but it is harmful to get divorced. yes, we just realized that both, perhaps, it turns out, they took a wider perspective, because i looked only here, as from a point of view. health, only in terms of changing partners and that's it. and you said, but there are different ways to spoil the health of psychological health. it sometimes causes such things, as if even on physical health it did not reverse the math.

nobody canceled it, you should not believe in it, as in the only factor that affects our health. in general, even here i really have a completely different perspective. another perspective. in broad perspective, thank you very much. well , the only thing i would like you to understand is that, of course, no one here was chasing you into a corner. and no one fought with you at all, mikhail is very provocative. he is a master of provocation. you, on the contrary, feel it in yourself, it was a delight that michael turns out, he's right. i agree, that is, this is like a key that i am looking for myself, i am trying to find for myself why? that is. well, why is it normal that dad lives like this and i can’t find this key, and mikhail already found so many cool moments during the program that clicked. i don't have much that clicks in my head. and right here, yes, these are his works evgenia said that they came to us. i think that the most important result of our

meeting today is for you. so it seems to me that this is an opportunity to reconsider on many, many episodes of your life. just on the other side and in this, of course. with the diversity of life, we have one life, you need to live it in such a way that it is interesting for you, useful, not painful. and, of course, still love, please, your loved ones, allow yourself to love them and accept mine there. here is a worldly wish, yes, and now scientific wishes yes, you don’t have to live life in such a way that, as natalya said, you can live like that. it's just that if it doesn't work out, it doesn't matter either. uh-huh yes, and the last, probably, is my message that i wanted to give you for our meeting for our transfer is your phrase to do. i can't do anything here. uh huh, uh huh. this is the phrase that most likely hurts you. yes, yes, simply, because you think that you should do something, i absolutely think so, but this is not and no.