[000:00:00;00] exactly, so to speak, the narrow house that russian architects built, and, because immigration was very large, it is believed that russian emigration in serbia was about 40-45.000, and serbian king alexander received the russians from e with great joy, because serbia was a very large military emigration, and king alexander knew the russian language very well, he studied in russia in the pashinsky corps and, of course, relations with the serbs. the russians were very special and i will introduce what, of course, the serbs still remembered. uh, liberation war in the balkans, there is still that war of the 19th century, which liberated them from the turks from the ottoman empire. in addition, very educated people came to serbia, not only, but very many of these forty-fifty thousand were young people with education, skills, good professionals. all this i mean is that

in the russian gymnasium there was an excellent education, and it turned out to be a wonderful education and, in fact, the revolutionary, they studied gift-giving textbooks further. wait, the fun begins, but because this russian pre-revolutionary boy. a native of a white migrant environment enters the soviet union and becomes a soviet student at moscow state university, and then a soviet scientist, and so on. but the most important thing between these two is war. yes , this is world war ii, where nikita ilyich takes an active part, as a partisan, and then as a red army soldier. and these are some completely paradoxes of history. yes uncle's father is white, he turns red. he said somewhere about himself that i was the only tolstoy red army soldier. here's how it happened. well, this is generally, of course, such an amazing historical turn that has occurred in our family. and this is a conversation not only about my father, and not only about my work to take him, and

these serbian tolstoy, which she does during the war. and this is also a conversation about the fact that they just managed to somehow change their fate, there was a huge will and with the course of circumstances, of course, which just if it weren’t for ah, these two grandchildren of tolstoy ilya ilyich vladimirovich my grandfather and his brother, then we would not be sitting here now, and in russia would not be fat. pizza in the middle of the night we need to urgently go to sochi how to swim with them at all, of course, there are this is stalin's biggest dacha. but it's true that here in the dacha there is even an armored sofa. that's right, sofa. we will not look at it. let's go

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mts subscription there are two types of people in the world, leaders and losers. nobody wants to live as losers. now maybe they want to go to the competition, if she knows so call soon we're going to california stop guys happy with what i want, then i say. i still have fascist bullets in my ass, don't move anything illegal. where is the olive? ca careful we can't stop two academy awards little miss sunshine on saturday at first you're free

on the condition that your daughter will never compete in a california beauty pageant ever again. we continue. this is a podcast life of wonderful and we have a wonderful journalist as our guest. hey tv presenter fokla, thick, as far as i understand, russian migration was divided into the defencists of the defeatists , and this is exactly how the thick ones treated. ah, to the defenders. and they were ardent defenders. and there is such a pope loved this one with this recalled this is to quote. i don't remember, uh , a big piece, but i remember the phrase that in émigré magazines and newspapers there was such and such a rhyme about my grandfather. well, the epigrams don’t mean anything, but about how he argued at all, and it was said there, so it fell on him like a divine scourge count ilya ilyich ilya ilyich was a nice fellow, but at times just naughty, that's how he led the discussion. and just like that, they defended this

position of the defensive word, naughty good in general in relation to the fat. this is very general about us. lev nikolayevich wrote that you are wild for something wild . this is very about ours. it is very very suitable. i smile like that, and you smile, because we imagine modern simple people who would also have such people, and of course i also happen to be wild and naughty, but, but now that’s not about that, which means that my bombing of belgrade begins 6 april forty-one. my father is still finishing up. this is the last class of his gymnasium. there is a photograph of him standing in absolutely tattered rags, as thin as a stick, such a pole, because his first work. it was that he had not even finished high school yet. he sorted out the blockage, dragged bricks on the bombed-out houses of belgrade, it’s just that somehow they don’t know how they put them in order, then they turn up and leave belgrade, where they are already hungry and come to vladimir or that tolstoy, who worked

as an agronomist in the city, a new scourge on on northeast of belgrade on the banks of the river, yes and e, they find themselves, the partisan movement begins there, they help the partisans, and in general, probably, the idea to return to the soviet union it arises already when they stay in serbia when it comes red red army, when the red army comes, firstly, they are very useful, because they speak russian and they speak serbian vladimir ilyich knows everyone and he is a very respected person. so, for example, here we have preserved a paper where it is written gratitude or her to vladimir tolstoy for organizing the local population to help cross the soviet troops across the river, the vice of the nkvd smersh that they are white emigrants, that they cannot be trusted, that means

that's it. this is wrong. everything, these stereotypes are broken, and people have a sense of trust or something, i can’t catch when this moment of decision-making was, and maybe they are very they, of course, through kovaly this is the moment when they enter the red army, for example , in serbia there is still the third grandson of tolstoy, vladimir mikhailovich tolstoy, who arrived from paris where it was terribly hungry, and he lived in serbia, it was also hungry, but better than in france and uh, here he is before the arrival of the red army. he said that i can’t with the bolsheviks. i incredibly want to go home in russia. well, i can’t imagine that i’ll be with the bolsheviks at all, like some kind of common business, and he left when the germans retreated, he left for paris and then went to america and now our aunts live in america now and i think that they were ready to cooperate with the red army when they stayed, because in general,

seemed ready to cooperate with them. and it really was a general. i'm afraid to make a mistake in his surname, who are aware of the descriptions of the meetings of the soviet general who met them and who, uh, was surprising to him. what 's what here in the serbian outback in the balkans , two grandsons of tolstoy are doing, and apparently, this conversation. they are not just immigrants. not just whites. they are fat and this immediately causes trust, because whatever it is, the soviet government is such and such, but tolstoy is tolstoy is true. and of course, we understand what's next. i'll tell you how they got back. and how, how, how they wrote a letter to stalin and the fact that they survived and the fact that we were born, of course, you are here in the mirror of the russian revolution. played. i think it's a key key role, but then let's go back for a minute to the new scourge and generally to serbia, and the young are fat. here is my father, probably his

brother oleg, they are in partisan detachments, and they participate and help the red army very actively. for when there are fights, and on and on my father, who means 20 years old. ah, he decides that he will go further from the red army , he joins the red army, for him this is the most important uh. well, he’s just narrower and the other younger ones, in my opinion, they took him then surprisingly his red army book is his first document, in general, he first appeared in the environment, and russian people are not just emigrants, but russian people, so to say, they became emigrants from russia, almost there are numbers 001 and 002 of those who returned, a call for a return, and my grandfather witness certificate number 01 repatriate. babushkin 002 dad 0034 and so on. and when they returned in august 1945 to the soviet union

, i found it in the country and could not say what kind of strange newspapers with some insignificant articles. something my dad is there something there, well, there is no big reason to write something. it was such a pr-company that showed how wonderful it was. but even former white guards live in the soviet country, even former monarchists, because in this letter wonderful, of course they wrote a letter. we former monarchists were guards - this was in the first line of this letter. we want to return to, uh, outside yet, the amazing story that do you remember telling me when they arrived by train at the belorussky railway station and they were met by aunt anna ilyinichna , the first thing she told them when they were so elated patriotic. they went out to the platform and returned to their native land. they were told to be silent, yes, that is, they had to fit into this soviet a reality that is not at all what it was filthy about. yes, of course, and this

is the remembrance of oleg oleg vladimirovich tolstoy, which peter tells about this, and this, probably, largely determined them and their future life right here at this moment when they returned. in russia, he was still in the red army, but then he succeeded. uh, in september already to join, he received the appropriate permission and entered the moscow university. it was also interesting to take, uh, front-line soldiers without any exams, but he was a little late. it was necessary to go to the rector of the university. and e. it's also interesting that my father really wanted to do it. e history, but my grandfather understands that, well, as if what the soviet union is in general, he once said, no history can be dealt with too much ideological science, then my father said. well, you know how i love literature, how i love poetry. my father adored poetry simply and brilliantly knew the poetry of the silver age, because all this in immigration was available all these buildings and before

the revolutionary immigrant he was. uh how was he millimeter. this love attracted me to me, when here even this name was simply forbidden, and on this my grandfather also says no. and this is impossible, because it is also very ideological. ok then. well, at least i can study languages. well, this is possible. yes, that was before he therefore became a linguist, and therefore he becomes a linguist. he enters the faculty of philology. well, he enters the slavic department. uh, exactly, because this is this idea of ​​being russian and the idea of ​​studying e roots, but still russian slavic culture. he was very little interested in any german studies or absolutely french novels. and this and this is very very clear from his biography of a child born in a foreign land. but still, of course, this is a brilliant pro-slavist, because and he is a complete billing, he knows perfectly well. uh,

serbian speaks like russian, he studies bulgarian at the faculty of philology. he knows the russian tradition. he writes works on his old slavonic language. trying is dedicated to the old church slavonic language brilliant scientific career. he never made a career. it's his very very little differently. yes, and of course, he became an academician and there he entered the president of the academy of sciences, he held some posts there, but it's true, it all became possible after the end of soviet power, because he was not a member of the party, therefore, but it's true he was allowed to teach at the university, and there, fortunately, at the philological faculty, where you studied and listened to lectures. dad, after all, not everyone had to be party members, and they had freedom and he there was an opportunity. he had incomplete studies at the institute of slavonic studies, where he worked all his life, he had a group, which was from his students. e, basically consisted of and and.

in general, dad created his own scientific scientific school and his own direction, fuck this for linguistics. well, it's interesting that he had a very ok e, krugozor, and that's exactly what he then began to deal with, it's just that at the junction of different e different disciplines. what was his attitude to soviet life and soviet realities after all. here he is was to some extent connected there with dissidents or with all this, and there i thought about all this, there, i don’t know, there was a colleague of shalamov academicians. somehow, you appeared here in the house of a dissident - this is a very active civic position , my father's position was that he lived, as if not noticing the soviet power. yes, i understand perfectly well, i am fully aware that you need to be allowed to do this, so that when they arrived in forty, five, they found themselves in a camp, because many turned out to be, we are such a happy family that no one was

at the head of us and, of course, the figure of lev nikolaevich as a classic of russian literature and took the mirror of the russian revolution. she saved us , you have to understand, that is, my father had the privilege and and takes such a position, he was just very lucky. his life is unbelievable. it worked out well , relatively speaking, well, somehow, probably, they tried several times, but it was clear that it was useless, you understand? it's also a story like this. eh, they lived before the revolution, then a tragedy happened, then they lived abroad. and for them, the feeling of russia was that everything will pass, power will pass, such power will pass another, and russia will remain, and when my mother remembers. yes, because my mother is a soviet person. she was born. uh, she was not in any emigration in moscow, and she asked. she says, here i am young still asked ilya ilyich e, the grandfather of my very white officer, immigrants and so on. she asked. and what do you think about

soviet power, and he is very calm said, well, it's all going to collapse. and when? well, here's another 20 15 20 will pass, it's all collapsed. he did not live up to his number in the seventieth year, but collapsed. exactly then, approximately, when he and he said, why did she ask. my mother, he said, everything is rotten, and my father. well, he kind of, here he lived, as if outside of soviet reality and not outside of politics. no, of course, we were in the evenings and all the time we lived under these voices and so on, but it was clear. what, what, what can you do your job from from the soviet, from the soviet power, here and somehow from the students communicate, and this, of course, is a departure into such linguistics and into very specific dust studies, as well as in. eh, of course. dad might have written more about software and some as a very religious person

and studied the old slavonic language, of course, he probably would have written more on these topics, would have been more involved in this, if there was an opportunity, but somehow and this is what i know. descendants of tolstoy are often asked how were you brought up? here, what kind of special upbringing you had there, and so on i understood, what are your families? i can’t say anything, but now i understand what kind of upbringing was the main idea in upbringing was. what happiness that we are in russia what happiness? what is it, that we are here and he just talked about it almost every day when in the nineties i studied at the philological faculty. and well, if i say two-thirds, it would be uh an understatement, well, almost all of my course is gone, then i somehow here i want to go to paris for an internship, an interesting world is opening up. maybe i can learn a little there. well of course, come, please, well, you remember, we made our choice. and, of course, it's a huge stroke of luck, because i can't imagine that they would have stayed. they

would have stayed in serbia, they would have gone to serbia. they are further west. well i very much doubt what we my father would have done. so it’s not even that he would have become an academician, but he would simply have done as much as he managed to do if he were at an american university or or in a french one, that is, russia gave him fate, of course, and that’s it. here is his father. that there is, that is, my grandfather and his brother. eh, of course they couldn’t, maybe it’s hard to judge? i have never seen them, they could not, probably, fully realize themselves, because these 25 years in exile have been a very hard life and somehow. well, of course, they dreamed of returning. they returned soon and they were already 50 years old. yes, to someone, uh, that is , the main part of life has already passed, although they were still very happy in russia. here is my father, who came, he was 22, of course, he made it. and this is a great happiness. this

big. uh, huge task. thank you very much, dear thekla, for this wonderful conversation. and it was a podcast. life is wonderful and i'm with you alexei varlamov a guest. i had a full name about a fat well-known russian journalist, tv presenter and daughter of nikita or whose tolstoy, about which we talked so wonderfully today? thank you this podcast is a must read. i'm aglaya for batnikova. director, writer. today i am visiting. kirill shamanov, writer , art critic, artist we will talk about william burrows and his junk novel. kirill hello. hello. this is the sixties, a guy from an educated and fairly wealthy family

studied at harvard, studied medicine in europe, and then chose this path. uh, let's just say to sink to the bottom and go through, in general , the addiction of illegal drugs, and he describes this experience in his books and quite unexpectedly becomes classics of american literature. one of the leaders of the beatnik movement, among which, and in general, what can we say about the berouz. did he become a pioneer, but because we know that irwin welsh, er. transbot hunter thompson er with fear of disgust in las vegas all they can say were after the bureau followed in his footsteps. well, for american literature, probably yes, but we also know there is russian literature, english literature in russian literature, we know bulgakov's

morphine, uh, in english literature. this is a de quincey novel. uh, another 800 there are some tenths of years, that is, yes, if we say, like this chronologically, as if, who was the first in this whole autofiction such literature about addiction, uh, then, probably, it’s still dequintion, but speaking about the generation of beatniks , they talk about berouz about his books and his style of description, then, of course, for modern literature for modern society. probably really somehow managed it . hmm yes, as it were, what it became, it is clear there, well, a huge mass of people, there his popularity to this sovereignty. and they are lebitnik writers in general, well, let's say , how they differ. that is why they are called beatniks. let's talk a little about this cultural context. well,

we are talking about the end of the forties at the very beginning fifties. uh, this is the american post-war generation. that is, it is the rise of the american economy. at the same time, in general, the rather poor state of american culture. eh, at that moment there was a need. uh, somehow make her dominant in the world. there buying american you buy the best american culture. they are many. these are the directions of many artists during the war, modern ones were taken out and created like this, as it were, plast e, literary, including here, that is, you can talk about it as how in such a political technology project, but as in any project with culture, something gets in , and talented always and really, as if here are a few authors for me. why do we say all these? so jan is fiction? let's call it literature. why is it written primarily in the first person? this experience, it

must be lived, as it were, and it is interesting precisely as an inner experience, first of all. it seems to me so, and precisely due to the fact that this inner experience in the form of such a step-by-step diary often poorly structured text. but it's like it's always there. here, as it were, the beginning, how a person began. there is some kind of abstract psychedelic period of this consumption of chaos and the subsequent, as it were, that everything came out of it, that is, usually it’s bad, when the grave usually leaves, but in some cases, we suddenly come across what it is addiction managed to somehow rethink this experience and even made some kind of novel. you have experience, you have two books written also about similar experiences. tell me what this rethinking gave you when you went through this literature. i used to go through all these 12 step programs and there is a rather

significant plast, these are diaries, uh, feelings there , uh. well, it's an inventory of memory, an inventory of the psyche. there are blocks of their own. that is, you simply remember some people in situations that hurt you there or no longer hurt you. which one was delivered to you and describe them in detail according to certain methods in order to understand. in general , someone in this situation did something wrong, what is the situation and when you have been doing this for years, you have such a habit, as if not well, through yes, through some written ones. yes, they make some decisions through written analytics, that is , well, then i noticed that some characters, here , whom i describe, i remember or situations, but they are so interesting that there is no way to write them in these boring tables, that something is needed there - then more literature. yes, what is needed is a story, at least a story is needed, i started writing the first few short stories and then somehow all of a sudden it all came together, there book a few years later, and she suddenly

even became some kind of big bestseller. let's not go back to berouz, but berezov began to write after he got out of addiction. yes, that is, he having gone through this yes review of his experience. it turns out formed. e yourself as a person. we can say that, we can say that, but we can say that the novel is junk. we are talking, just now i directly suspect that in this revision, that is, e, he did not stop being addicted and wrote a junk novel, and he began work with your addiction and as a result through as a result wrote. yes, this novel, and in which he is clearly expressed there , he has his thoughts, his own experiences, clearly there. well, uh, put it on paper, but what about? it's novel? that is, let's tell a little about all these auto-fiction novels about addiction, and they are to a certain extent, maybe to the main extent. in fact , his freedom and the loneliness of a person. i

mean, about hmm, that's about, uh, addiction. yes , there are all these adventures, but uh, that is let's say this in american life. yes, there are all these channels, but they are actually pretty, yes, like ours. eh, my beloved pale one sings all my stories, in principle, are similar, that is, uh, all these novels, they really are. well, there's some man he's addicted to. he's the one there. well, there is more or less, but this moment of what he understands. it's that he's addicted. there, he feels his own, as it were, this servile one, as if in front of some kind of drug of life. yes, that is, and that's it overthrown. eh, yes, to the analysis, that is, to put it on paper, how it tries to sort it out somehow consistently, because drug addicts are some kind of addicted people. they are often unable to think three sentences in a row in one pipeline. he's got to write down, that is, yes, that is, it's

literal. here it collects the letter. eh, brains like that, yes, that is, to work with all of these addictions. here are the texts of the letter - this is one of the most powerful practices, these are these analyzes and so on. and it seems to you that the life of faith, that it is tragic, because i, for one, see that he is incredibly lucky at first, despite his abuse. he even died of this heart attack before the age of 83, which yes experienced quite unexpected things even with his son, and then he never went to prison. although in america these years. well, it's actually in the books. yes, it is persecuted. they were all in prison, but i take it from the hut. prisons a and the most interesting thing is that he killed his wife. that is, it was accidental by negligence, but since it is accidental or not, because he had a relationship with her quarrel in front of friends. she humiliated him by saying that he was a bad hunter.

he does not know how to shoot, and he decided to prove that he knows how to shoot. that is, he killed his own wife, but uh, thanks to his rich family, oh, which i already mentioned, he managed to escape. uh, punishment and maybe mentally he was going through, it's because he talked about what experience made him write or what, he began to write precisely after this event, which he experienced, but nonetheless. it can be said that the person , uh, did not bear almost any responsibility. and even his literary experience. and now it becomes a classic. he becomes famous. that is, even at six. that year, a massachusetts court ruled that his book naked lunch was a literary work, not obscene at all, because the book was banned

at one time, uh, but she was acquitted in court for him, uh, norman myllera . alan gisberg. john chardy. this is a fluff writer. they acted in defense, in general, of their comrade. well, you can say the opponent. you understand that in literature does not happen. yes , such close friends are more like competition. well , that's what they all said. i read the minutes of the court, everyone said that this is a unique piece of work, a unique artistic method. oh, and american society. let's put it this way , it can't do without e, this look without this language, which i introduced to beru, that is. in general, whether he is lucky or not, you know, here i am, as an artist, after all. yes, that is, uh, i experimented a lot with different media yes, it's called art techniques, that is, electronic modern art and some actions and some kind of theater and painting, yes, and painting, whatever. and when i started writing lyrics. that's

actually how you began to realize yourself. how exactly is the lyricist? i understood such a moment that literature is, well, let's say from the point of view of the creative media, yes, that is, from the point of view of the creative material, this is the only practically absolute freedom like a method. that is, according to the classics, it does not require money to create, there is only you and in fact. yes, secondly, nothing can happen at all. that is, i can now go on the ceiling on foot to climb from it to bring a diamond from there. there and that's it. here, i have now painted a whole story in painting. it's all there in the movies. it's you all for yourself the only place where you can do this is animation, but this is also other labor costs. and this is this and this is the incredible accessibility of literature, the power of these images, which you can create like this. and this, of course, cannot be compared in

terms of creativity. m-m freedom of creativity. yes, freedom e creative expression in any comparison, of course, does not go. so you're always doing some kind of 2d art. or is there some kind of cinema that always comes up against some interpretations for restrictions, yes , for restrictions on interpretations for distortions. and here you are directly in plain text. how to say, you cut it, how did you conceive it all, that is, it is ideal absolutely format, and in this sense, as if the birch was lucky that he, as it were, immediately began to engage in this art. only later, by the way, oh, not only writers, he painted pictures. tell me about it. well, yes, then here's five. fifth sixties arose a huge galaxy of american artists and abstract expressionists. it's there jackson paul shortly. well, there is a whole one . these are the authors who now cost hundreds of millions of dollars there, and then they immediately began to cost good money. i take a dream.

such rather primitivist paintings, mostly on boards on some, and then, uh, all of her used to shoot them all with holes. yes, they are all shot. and by the way, here is a paradoxical way. here in moscow, as it were, they don’t know, but in st. petersburg , for example, i saw one of these paintings in the permanent position of the russian museum in the frame palace. yes, and there was even such a very funny moment when i studied the second book. i am now describing this episode there, when i studied at the russian museum of longing. there is such alexander friend. yes, borovsky is a wonderful art critic, such a director of our department, we are teachers and somehow we go to him, and there are some paintings, i look like that, there is alexander comrade. what is it? the picture is there, and there it stands there. well, such a two by two seventy there basques there is a picture there, something picasso, some kind of stands like a pack, so in this and some kind of peeled plank stands. i say this

in general, that yes dumberus. and me just already at that moment. i have already stopped using it, i prescribed all these mine. i just give and i've made contact. e with a birch through his material art is correct for one hole. it's invisible there. i recorded my feelings there, as if passing a finger through the pictures i take. yes, through the picture, for example, that is, uh. as a matter of fact, he produced quite a lot of these pictures. they are. uh, in many museums there is something like that, and i really liked it too, like uh, then i was also all like that at the dawn, so to speak, some kind of artistic career, and i really liked the creative method, which, as it were he draws a person and writes books and films are shot there, there he makes some kind of video art and cooperates with rockers and does not limit himself in any file form. multi such a media format of creativity is very close when you are like

the center of your own creativity, by the way, that's what you call performance correctly, when your life becomes the object of your art. and so you can do it once there is such a concept that life is like an art of life. like a work. that is, there you have historical, how would your this canvas, that is, it's stupid, because why do they buy some pictures of enthusiasm there of some orkl, because this is the same worl, because there is a whole life, and a legend. here in this episode of life. he painted this picture there, she was with that one, then frankly there. that is, you buy this story, but what is history? this is a text that is, this is a kind of story, that is, you still think that the main direction of e- creativity i take rosa was literature, right? well, of course, but these pictures these are such artifacts, yes, merchandisen accompanies, that is, for the album cover , in my opinion, one of his paintings, when you get such wild popularity, there

is already, in general, a t-shirt and that's it. these are also birches. i think there were also t-shirts and some kind of hats, these are some kind of collectibles. there, too, you could somehow jackets. there are some branded ones there. you can't help but realize that anyone with a claim to the throne is dangerous. i signed the disclaimer. and what will happen to me now? i don't know great tomorrow after the program time thanks absorbs bacteria toxins to millions, helping to eliminate unpleasant symptoms. a thousand rubles for inviting friends to tinkoff until june 30 and

together participate in the drawing of 100 million rubles. i don’t know, i’ll ask my friends, 99, yes, the insanely profitable king is victory for you and all your friends at burger king try new products from prostokvashino only cottage cheese and ripe berries are tasty and natural prostokvashino delicious breakfast for the whole family it’s difficult to choose a car, who doesn’t fit the car the price is right, who is the right one? the price does not fit the machine and when

found the perfect car with the perfect price count goes for seconds. apply for a tinkoff car loan for both a new and a used tinkoff car, he often hears such a person with long-term anxiety. thanks for the advice, people get some sleep easy to say, but really dot rf. this podcast is a must read. i am a film director and a writer, my guest is kirill shamanov, an art critic writer. artist specialist in the art of the xx century. we 're discussing william burroughs, and his