mongolia mongolia i emphasize that it is always a pleasure for me to meet you, because here is an intelligent person, as i said, never m-m to talk with his interlocutor on unpleasant topics. it doesn’t matter how much time dima and i spend together always positively , always even if it’s some kind of, sad events, we discuss together we always find some kind of bright way out in it. perhaps that is why music helps us to solve any issues. it's absolutely mutual and always here, if i want to say that if you together with you in the company, but it’s always a cheerful and kind, smart, interesting musical identification evening, so lena and i always also love it very much, when with a shot. together with the lady, when we part, we know that it will not be for long,

and as a finale for me, a melody to a friend until tomorrow, so that we set our viewers on a positive morning of a new day dmitry malikov until tomorrow, do not say farewell. until tomorrow, tired lights shine. it's time for you to go home for a long time it's dark outside, and it's all the same to me. nothing can be done. look into your eyes look into my eyes. thanks friends. until tomorrow. dear friends, this is a podcast of the tunes of my life. today, together with you, we learned about

the melodies that accompany the life of dmitry malikov, people's artist of russia this podcast is a must-read. i am aglaya na batnikova, director writer, today my guest is anastasia tolstaya, a specialist in nabokov, literary critic, translator into english by letter and writers, screenwriter andrey rubanov we will discuss lolita nabokova, why this novel is innovative, scandalous and why did he make a side world star? nastya, please tell me, is nabokov an american writer, as he called himself, or a russian

writer? this is a difficult question, and in fact at oxford, where she taught for a long time, he fell between these chairs, because the english department said that this was an american writer in russian they said that this was an english writer. in general , they practically don’t teach it, because they don’t understand how they can’t figure it out. yes, yes, but in fact he is both, because that, of course , he wrote the first part of his life and career in russian, and only after moving to america did he begin to write, or rather, here he wrote one novel in europe and real life on it. well, then all of his remaining novels were written in english and, of course, there are a lot of them, especially in lolita. i think we 'll talk about this, but connected specifically with america with american life. well, it all came down to him. but after the revolution, nabokov migrated

to europe, then left europe for america, but, when he wrote in russian, he had the pseudonym sirin vladimir sirin, and so he was known among russian emigrants, and it turns out that he wanted to reach, probably, a different audience on the world market and began to write in english , conditionally speaking, in order to establish himself precisely as a world writer. and so to speak , step over your audience. expand it. we can say so. well, of course, yes. although, as it were, i think that every writer strives for this, but not everyone succeeds, but if we talk about when he wrote in russian, and so he wrote with a pseudonym, and he chose a pseudonym, because, and he wanted to distinguish himself from his father, because everyone knew vladimir vladimirovich nabokov, who was the helm of the magazine. yes, he was the editor-in-chief of a magazine. uh, and in which it came out in berlin in the twenties,

and he, uh, was a very famous person, uh, and nabokov published her first early stories precisely in the wheel. and so that no one would confuse them. he did not blame moscow, yes, yes. so he chose such a pseudonym for himself, and he actually became very famous interesting fact. uh, that the name vladimir nabokov is precisely the literary name vladimir nabokov, he signs it for the first time with lolita and it is interesting that in the preface of the clalit he himself writes that at first he wanted, uh, to publish this novel anonymously under some pseudonym, but then he decided that this mask will hurt him much more than it will do him any good, and therefore resolutely sign this novel with his real name. and after that it already becomes a global brand. in the name of vladimir nabokov and his all old novels are also already published under his new

name correctly, that is, we can say that nabokov, uh, how nabokov was born precisely on the novel. lolita of course, if it weren't for you , there wouldn't be nabokov as we understand him now and today and it was he who created the world. glory of course. it was a scandalous novel, one must understand that in the fiftieth year such a topic. well, we all know there about the nine lorenz and , as it were, but the trial that was over his book, that is, in those days, censorship was very strong, especially on the topic of sex, and therefore, as of course, he would have deliberately chosen such a scandalous topic, and in order to attract attention, he knew perfectly well what the reaction would be, he could not find the publishing house and the publishing house that was released for the first time, it was in paris in paris that released pornographic erotic novels, but he went for it also, how important. here, but in fact, as it were, as always with any novel with any writer.

i think andrei will confirm there is some kind of luck. uh and some course of circumstances, that is, uh, actually, if not for the very famous english writer grame green and he noticed this novel published. in this strange review, i wrote a review and more and more. here it goes, how it would go. andrew, please. here you are a writer. how difficult is it to write or take and change the language is it difficult or do you think we know that nabokov spoke english perfectly and he had an english governess he is from a rich family not from a rich family from a very rich family both on his father's mother's lines. he is english. i mastered earlier than the russians. as far as i know, he was pure bilingual, but i never forget his aphorism. the homeland of the writer is his language, it is obvious that he was

belling, as if in its purest form, that is, he thought in a mixture of two languages. i suppose he also has a preface of the clalite, which is more interesting than roman himself, and there he very curiously describes how he translated this novel from english into russian and how literary russian differs from literary english, despite the fact that he was fluent in both languages, but he writes there that about technology, fashion, and the natural sciences and unnatural passions. uh, it is much more convenient to write in english than in russian, because all technical terminology, at least almost all of it, came into russian from english from german and other languages ​​​​and from latin , conventionally speaking, but russian has its advantages and certainly for me a writer. russian here nastya claims that he certainly had a marketing plan to write uh,

roman lolita he himself admits this andrey here and again nabokov compares russian and english uh with young brilliant, but not very educated young man. eh, this is the russian language, but with a mature genius, eh, who has the freedom of the spirit. explain why this is happening, that is, the russian language seems to be younger and less experienced on its side, because the literary russian language appeared with us only in the 18th century. so there is a russian language that is definitely younger, or precisely literary, the one in which we now write books begins. there is no pushkin, it begins there with tretyakov, there with lomonosov derzhavin is the end of the 18th century, and before him there were lomonosov, idiakovsky and sumarokov, who actually created

russian literary, that is not just a river, but precisely an artistic literary russian language by this time in english literature. swift was already there , everything was already there, the parliament was already there, everything was already there, but certainly much older. one cause, another cause, unknowable. why is english such a language? and the russian is like this, it’s like the sacrament nastya, please tell me. you, too, would be belin, as a billing person thinks, what are his difficulties and what advantages does it have? what, as scientists who deal with this issue have already proven? and their languages ​​are always, as it were, hostile to each other, only to each other. they, uh, are always trying to get each other out to shoot. that is, it is not the head. yes, that is, it’s not like, you’re perfect, you know, there are two languages, and you’re just like that at the click of a button, of course, all the time one of the languages ​​is trying

to dominate, and especially if you write or you are always immersed, as if in this language and you suddenly have to change it to another it doesn't matter that, of course, he grew up there spoke english and wrote, as it were, and so on , naturally, all english literature. but nabokov is very interesting, she said, he is in e. preface to his uh, collections of essays called ispranga singing with as strong as strong opinions, strong opinions, yes, and he wrote that he a-a thinks like a genius, that he writes like a great writer, that he speaks like child and i believe that this is precisely due to his bilingualism. and even when he became superstar, he refused to give. uh, just an oral interview. they should always only in writing only in writing. he always had these cards on which he wrote his novels, and on them he wrote

the answers to all the interviews, even if it was a television interview, he felt helpless in advance of the speech and had to prepare in writing. yes, i think it has to do with beling, because , uh, it's very difficult to find the right words at the right time when you're just saying, well, i, too, now, sort of, since i, as it were, mostly spoke english, yes, sometimes it’s also difficult for me to find the right word exactly exactly and nabokov when he began to translate lolita back into russian. it’s like he that this is a personal tragedy for him, that here he is, as if on the one hand this is coquetry, because , of course, how well he knew the russian language, but on the other hand, of course, e he is time and distance was, uh, separated from his homeland by his parents. well, there, for example, he calls jeans cowboy pantaloons. and something else corr. i didn’t know how to translate, although in russia they already knew what popcorn was at that time, and

he somehow strangely translates it there too. well, it 's very interesting that he uses some very unexpected word formations there. there we would say now a clingy dog. yes, he writes, a molesting dog or there is a lot of eyes, yes, as we would now say many-sidedness. he writes, there is a lot there, that is, yes, that is, relatively speaking, he means, yes, he feels the language, but somehow in a completely different way to use the same thing in english or the word net. it's like that too. can say neologism. he didn’t invent it, but it’s like he introduced it into world nature, yes, yes. and uh, this is just a little bit. here are the mistakes that occur due to the fact that you uh confuse languages ​​a little. or sometimes on purpose, sometimes by accident, and they just enrich his literature, give rise to their own style. let's just say andrew tell me please, do you think that the choice of this topic? yes, this vicious passion for minors,

blowing up oral foundations, uh, was planned for the letter in order to enter the world market so that all of it learned, it seems to me that well, having read lolita now, i understand that the novel is too complicated for the american public, and the plot is very clear and simple. that is, at the level of the plot. he also needed, relatively speaking, to blow up, right? there is no morality in art; morality is a class concept for a serious artist. no, no morality. and no boundaries at all. it can't be, he is absolutely free within his work, another thing i repeat once again. did he want to blow up. well, nastya says that she wanted to it was a conscious marketing calculation to ensure that the american market is cultural and a cultural mask. and in general , it is impossible to get into the english-speaking market, and in order to sound there , you just need to blow up infinitely everything around, otherwise you are simply imperceptible. i

think that you can compare lemon, for example, and there is there is such a topic. yes, i also wanted to blow it up. and through what we russian writer likes to blow up through erotica. we understand well, in our culture, what is erotica is just a theory that was, as it were, put forward back there in the sixties, yes, uh, an american professor, what, but nabokov just writes. in a long tradition of literature about love, he calls it pashin love that is, it is passionate love, and he takes it away. eh, as if the sources. this is generally to medieval literature to the troubadours, who sang such love, and it was always love outside of society. it was always love the opposite of love in a marriage of some kind of normal relationship. and it has always been tragic, always tragically ends love is impossible love, and this is real passionate love. and here he is

traces, as it were, the evolution of this kind of genre of the yes genre through literature and, in the 19th century , the culmination of this novel by juliet. and this is flabe. this is tolstoy, she is karenina. there is a belief and so on. she says the way lolita is mentioned. yes, of course, of course. because nabokov deliberately plays with all these traditions. he knows very well how. and that he fits in, but of course, by the twentieth century, when he writes lolita, adelter no longer shocks anyone. lolita is a modern anna karenina in a sense, it seems to me very many parallels can be drawn, but first of all, this is it, this is the genre, but about forbidden love, it is the impossible love of andrey as you think, lolita is a novel, love or something else. here nastya said we write for me with a pesh, that is, passion, love and drink. sean lafa is three different concepts. for me, as for a person who thinks that

he speaks the literary russian language , not only do you think that you know the language of love, there is no love in lolita , a full-fledged relationship between a 12-year-old girl and adult man. this is, firstly, and secondly, from a moral point of view, this is a mesoalliance. pure mesolation, because this is a dollar from a gas philistine, she is spiritually far from the main character, he describes her to nabokov as a bright representative. that's precisely the bourgeois middle class. she loves cinema. this is not the only heroine she has , he has many of them, see in the finale. he uh finds this dolores uh, lolita who once ran away from him. yes, he finds her after 3 years. and she has grown up. she is pregnant. she lives in some dirty hole with some just a worker and he will see that beauty

has withered. she ceased to be not an infertian, that is, she ceased to correspond to his framework , let's say, erotic interests, and nevertheless. he writes that he loves her and you want her to be with him, that is, he is ready to transcend these boundaries. isn't this proof of love after all? rather, he feels at this moment when he says that he loves he feels for her. well, as if nostalgic feelings are such a comrade of a former comrade. well, how can it she left him in the final scene, it is very touching that he comes to her. he she returned to where he took her to the world of the inhabitants. he may be nostalgic for the days when he was obsessed with her. well , again, but he cannot enter into spiritual unity with her, because he didn’t exist, and about mania. listen to this governor. he married her mother, who hated the fact that i'm nabokov's

erotica. i have not been able to figure it out. what kind of women did a woman give birth to on her side, despite the fact that he had one wife. here he had some kind of masha described. so tender in the first novel. he has a lot of women, bourgeois boring class and philistine uninteresting shallow ones they pass from novel to novel and his girls are the same, but for some reason he describes them. and there is a contrast between europe and old europe because humbert is french yes , half french and half swiss, and that's why he's so high-flown and, in general, it's true. it's that he doesn't know some american cultural codes well, and uh, this is lolita who loves. uh, movie stars, fashion magazines and above that she can't jump, but still she is a typical american. and if there are some complex relations between europe and america in

this novel. well, the novel is built on the opposition, of course, of these two worlds, as if the old measures and the new world. and this is also built on the language, that is, this grandiloquent language of humbert and slang, and lolita and she. oh, boy, she has three three and a half words. yes, yes, although, how should we remember that we hear lolita only through the words of the governor. we never hear her voice, that is, her image, as it were, like a philistine. first of all, she's 12 years old, yeah, sort of, what we expect from a teenager, sort of, her interests are quite normal. in fact, nabokov considered this his love letter to america and he was very worried when he was accused of being a parody there, that he was something of snobbery and so on more than when he was accused of being a fan of pornography. and that is, er for him, this was chanting in fact. here she traveled

almost all states of america and and. eh, that's why that's all he wrote. he wrote down everything he heard. there are some words at the gas stations and so on. it was very important for him to catch this one, and the middle of the world . yes, they attribute the middle world to america that he wanted . yes, magical children ivan dmitrienko and katya temnova. how did it happen to you to take and become famous cedar cones of a desperate life backlash, children, they say, be more restrained. i i think it's absolute. if you want to talk, if you're so smart, it's just amazing what you have to say to a child so that he does not lose himself. i'm a star mom get out the circle of moms. you ask the soviet promoter

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a used car tinkoff, he also has one for breakfast. yes, you're new. this podcast is a must read. i am aglaya, nabatnikova director and writer, my guests are the writers andrey rubanov and anastasia tolstaya, a specialist in nabokov e, a literary critic translator into english, we are discussing lolita and a novel that is made by a letter by a world star. andrey, please tell me, i know what you love, and he is an example for you fluency in russian, but at the same time, he is very cold and it seems to me that he does not like his heroes. it doesn't turn you off in

your best books. he loves, of course, his heroes, because it's impossible for him, and he loves the governor and understands him and this lolita , too, the us dollar. he, too, either he loves her, or tries to love her, as he tried to love america because he came there , because she gave him shelter, she gave him some more or less prosperous life, which he was deprived of all his up to 40 years he poor. and he became famous in america she gave him no. well, as if, again, through europe , first it was printed in france, then in england. and only then, in some fifty- ninth year, through america, it was not banned in fifty-eight. well, no matter how america was banned, it was the british side, but it describes by letter what those subscribers who subscribed to themselves this french edition. let's say this is a dubious publishing house, and they let him through at the border

, and only then, uh, american publishers, making sure that the customs officers let him out of europe to america this book, only then did not agree. e publish, but nevertheless prohibitions. it wasn't in america. it is nabokov himself who describes that there were bans in other countries, but specifically in america, the novel was not banned, oddly enough, although america is indeed a very parisian country, the funniest thing is that there is a contradiction in this, as it were, inside america and which i am sure, nabokov seemed to realize that in the most conservative states where is the most pronounced puritanism, as it were. these are the same states. where? eh? on the contrary, marriage between there are allowed completely there by twelve-year-old girls in the fifties . that is when he writes this novel. are there states in america where it's legal? well, of course, he was a man of the european old culture, who came to the new culture and wanted to please those people

. the so-called general public, because i think lolita about it, well, well hubert makes fun of. uh passion lolita cinema, like fighting films and yet. he himself, in my opinion, would like to be distorted, but he himself wanted to get into the cinema. and at least. when i read a novel , i see what is written. cinematic i would say that the finale, uh, was written absolutely according to the precepts. e masters. uh, hollywood and uh, really the film adaptation of lolita did not keep itself waiting, delivered itself to wait. so in the fifty-third year, he finishes the lolita film comes out in the sixty-second 9 years is removed. and he was already over 60 at least in i wanted to get into cinema all my life since my youth. he even starred in statistics. uh-huh 10 marks. he

worked out. it got into roman masha there is a cross-cutting theme, the sale of the shadow of a person. but er, of course, he did not like cinema, he could not, because cinema, from his point of view, was too rough entertainment. again, for the general public with andrei , because it seems to me that he is not everyone, but he did not like. he even some i just don’t remember, but there were some very popular american comedies that he loved very much , he writes about it himself, and moreover, he took a lot of tricks from the cinema and you even have a camera obscura. uh, the scenes where he shoots from above, like a frame, uh, and describes how the car drives through this is an absolutely cinematic frame. that is, it has never been in the literature. he's very much a montage. here it is. all the ideas that seemed to come from the cinema nabokov not only tried to write his books. indeed, as

if they were scripts to be taken, to attract attention. uh, and he had everything bloom and you kept promising that they would film it, and now, maybe you are there more you can even talk about it. but before lolita, no matter how it was possible. well, there are two adaptations of lolita yes by adrian lyne who made nine and a half weeks just as well and just high averages, which is like a master. yes, the master of erotica 9.5 weeks is better, and here nabokov is just like a high-class, such a commercial lolita endelena liner. here, well, well, but the kubrick did it. it seems to me that there is a cool lolita fourteen-year-old girl. he filmed with yula here 16 14. i clarified yes according to the plot 12, but he was told that this is impossible, a 12-year-old actress in such a video to use, therefore, they took the 14-year-old she became a star and the film with

a budget of 2 million collected nine. surplus profits will provide owls. in general, as i understand it, she later ensured a quiet life for the rest of the years, because apparently he received royalties. and we can say that nabokov sold his soul to the devil, that he took dr. faust, just such a gloomy manic criminal passion, led it into culture. that is, it seems to me that lolita and not all of this is copied a lot more late-er works and in general, well, we can say that he generally blew up the culture with this plot, when you do something, write a book or a film or a picture or a song , compose or dance, and you still sell your soul. you are giving it away. in exchange for what you do, whether you sell to the devil or to someone else, i don't know, but it's

all the same about exchanging your personality for something that enters your soul. well, of course it's devilish. that he is the devil here, as it were, for the man whose father was killed, you know who who fled from the country with his parents, it seems that this is the motherland, as he said, i took russia to the soles of my boots. he did not lose, like, he does not agree with this statement. eh, here, but at the end of his life he just said that i am an american writer of russian origin, who lives in switzerland and wrote his novels in germany, but i don’t remember, he openly called himself a cosmopolitan, or there is such a word there, as it were term it was not. i'm telling you, mobile some words arise in his years there was no word movie star, but he calls a movie actress. well, that's great, but the fact is that he just loved words very much. in fact. he wrote all his wounds in cambridge, when he was a student, he accidentally found a four-ton

dictionary at a fair at a sale on some one, he wrote all his novels with these houses on the table. that is, he kept uh, choosing words, and then i steal words from her from nabokov, as if they were writers, this is normal. i noticed from you, well, i'm andrei's wife. i carefully read books, and there are. when i read a letter, i see directly the words that andrei fell in love with, for example, a drug, when the speech is medicated. well, he himself i know that he has very good ones again, in my opinion, in gift. he says, i sit down or in other shores. i'll read about five pages of pushkin's prose the captain's daughter or bekkin's stories , a sample of russian literature. and then i sit down to write my own. here is pushkin, as it were, you still cannot imitate pushkin. well , in this state, i did the same. so, that is, i have a lot of good all kinds of advice. yes, i

actually read it, it was also written. uh, there is worth reading this year 150 years, with from the moment tolstoy began to write she knees, but uh, there are a lot of funny ones. e. so start this novel. uh, this novel was originally called well done woman. yes, yes, and uh, in fact, the impetus to write this novel was in the story of belkin, he read not finished, there is an unfinished story. pushkin and a. tolstoy read so what? e pushkin starts in the middle of the action. eh, it’s like a story that he doesn’t just somehow describe something there, but just immediately action. and this is how you should write. and that was like an impetus in order to start it knees. naturally. it then turned out to be something completely different. ono, by the way, bowed before tolstoy blocks. i want to say that when i first read lolita i was 15 years old and i had a completely different perception

than today, when i read this novel , i re-read it, because now i am already the mother of a teenage girl. uh, here, actually, our daughters with andrey. here i see it in a completely different way. that is, when i was trace it seemed to me that in the first place, uh, if we consider the lolita of the chess game, which plays nabokov with the reader. yes, that is , the reader is forced, and to play this game, yes , and either follow the governor and believe him or not, yes, because the governor is charming in his own way. yes, he looks handsome, he knows languages , he has great taste. and in general, he takes care of his parents in his own way. he seduces not only lolita but also to count. yes and so, we can say that this game was me 15 years old and nabokov won. well, in general, by a huge margin, because i liked the humber. you thought it was a great life. they travel. she drinks coke, he buys her new clothes. and she doesn't have to go to school.

it's all so great. and it is so mysterious and he is so handsome, and he is so in general, and one might even say, not the first. he seduced her. yes, that is, in the same place, in fact, it turns out that she did not even understand wine. but now, when i read, i understand that the horror is not even in the fact that e humbert unraveled the girl, but the horror is that he used her and put her in this prison, that is, he imposed on her a certain life whose she didn't live should, and uh. she was his slave, he did not let her out, and in general, he used her and even all these trips, all these frozen cinemas. there are new clothes. it was all a kind of entourage in order to keep this girl captive and use her, and now i understand that this is, well, this is the destroyed psyche of this girl. that is, he is just a monster that devoured the life of a young girl, and there is nothing beautiful or anything about it. this is

exclusively a tragedy of darkness, horror and some kind of demonic nature. i don't know, maybe to be in a man yes, demonic, maybe divine is absolutely. well, here is the triumph of demonic nature. and now i perceive it. terrified, so now you have with your side chess game 1:11. now he is already with me as a mother of a girl and a teenager. he can't win against me. and you will understand this too, when kitty grows up, probably, yes, yes, that's what you were telling me about, that he is some kind of interesting, educated, handsome in appearance. i did not consider all this with him there you are, maybe because i'm a boy. that's why all the women fell in love with her adult female star. yes, but you married a woman you hated. to get access to the child to the child you

have done, well, an act. uh, well, i will say so ugly. he wants to have children with lolita, so that later with his children and descendants. yes, wait for yourself little lolitas and use like this, in addition, i made an important remark. he didn't ruin the tried. she then, i repeat, returned to the same place where he took her from, to her own world. lolita remains vital when she is found by e hunbertanasilos in poverty, but happily married and content with her life. that is, maybe, indeed, this question has destroyed or not destroyed the personality, but it seems to me that it is impossible not to destroy after so many years e and bullying, unfortunately, as we know lolita ends. poor she dies childbirth, yes, yes. well, it's like a part of it on the chess game that not everyone who reads this novel

the first time understands that because the prefaces on the first pages tell us that both she and her daughter died in nature. but this is, as it were, this is the uh climax of the uh tradition. pashin love yes, everyone must end badly, and on the career she must throw herself under the belt. uh, here too, as if everyone should end their life unsuccessfully, but still pay attention. and why doesn't he make this girl interesting deep. that's why nabokov because a man doesn't care if a woman is interesting or deep, how do you know that? i'm not sure what it actually is when humbert describes something. what is a nymphet? he says that elusive qualities that not any girl is there 12 years old. we suit him, and she does not even have to be pretty or some kind of he for a very long time you are something special, what is so elusive, which only a nymphet lover sees. this is the moment of transformation, if

you really know how to catch it, this is the moment of transformation. well, it's probably like something like that, when the caterpillar turns into grandmother there is some moment of transformation, when the caterpillar really starts. that's just the very beginning. that's about butterflies, too. well, i don't know if it will be interesting or not multiple butterflies. a little, but he believed that the butterfly - this is an example of beauty, and which is not for what it is not needed. as in the sense of beauty itself. why butterflies these patterns are beautiful art. actually. so, yes, for him it’s you, his positing power for him was art, because he thought that it should exist by itself, not for what, but simply, as it were, for itself for for itself. well, this is a position and therefore, as it were, this is the answer to your question. is it true that he is a soul, but , as it were, with everything that we said there about some vile. it's interesting, he's not he knew whether it would work or not work for

him, as for a true artist, the most important thing in his work of art, and yet. i think that lolita can be called a work, of course, of course, she turns the soul upside down for you. i didn't read it once. it seemed to me sugary and that the translation although nabokov himself did the translation, but the translation into russian it is much weaker than uh. i can't read english sorry, yes, that is, it looks better a lot of illusion of lettering, there uh, actually russian roman is much more sexy frankly. uh, revelation than uh english and in general there are a lot of nuances , not only that he didn’t know how to translate jeans there, but uh, this is not the same novel, although he translated, as if the author of the guys herself translated. thank you very much for the conversation. thank you for coming. this was a podcast, a must read. anastasia tolstaya was my guest literature sheep translator nabokov