discussed, in general, what is the choice? yes , what is the mission of every artist credo here and that artist, well, some kind of graphic artist, whom he also elevates in status to an artist credo alone to survive in turbulent times. this is the main motto for filmmakers. in this case, when the film began to be discussed, it is clear that the hero of leonov is a negative example. this is the very compromise that should not be in the life of an artist of the revolution, and he was perceived, for example, by reviewers with some apprehension. he seems to be negative, but somehow leonov plays somehow contradictory. he likes us. we are getting used to it. in general , we also understand his pain and his desire to survive and with the convergence of decades. yes, and alexander ivanovich's dream, turning his gaze to this film, recalls this phrase of leonov to survive. how, in general, then what was

the task of the soviet artist, but to survive in art? yes, so that your film is not closed, you need to change the actor, you need to make some editing corrections. and you need to maneuver all the time that the film is closed, but just couldn’t it was quite difficult, because the reporting is complicated, and the money is a loan from the bank. and in order to shoot any film, any studio, the soviet took a loan from a bank, which then, after the film was accepted by the state, was compensated with the help of the state cinema, the funds of the state cinema, and this money, as it were, returned the studio to the bank in this way. it was actually quite a complex system, so just take it and abandon some project. well, it was practically impossible, yes, that is, it was a loss. and who will cover it and for the cops are, of course, a school in life. in a sense, this film, because it had to fit into a limited budget. and what we see on the screen actually. this is largely a compromise. how to save money and at the same time make a good film and you

've got a great place for yourself, then worked out a combination and then the reviewers also used it, that this is on the one hand a film reflections of its theme. in general, quite serious, even if he sees his viewers as high school students who know nothing, but as an artist in a revolution. subject reflections film reflections form of entertainment attraction - it's all bright, it's any format. er, any material that touches you in some way. it might even be fire smoke. and this is a big shot in the movie. yes, this is everything that breaks us out of some familiar, and the feeling of viewing is everything that pulls us. let's now see here a fragment with a proclave, where she plays, just zhanna udark. and where the smoke of the fire brink just begins. here is the same attraction, as einstein would say, which was very often talk about sparkles in performance. for

tabakov they said that it was eisenstein who was such a prototype of the hero who oleg tabakov created the harvest with me to watch ours represent. it is interesting that in the original literary script one of its names was in life three deaths or two deaths of vladimir five deaths vladimirovich but at the same time he remained alive at the end of the literary script beet heroes leave for horizon e, to new creative achievements by opening to

the creation of new theaters and looking to the fog. damn girl. krisa says, look, we call it very torturous comparisons, that the hare brews beer, but he does not agree with the cream. yes? or any ideology. it’s not like i’m hiding behind our horizon in the film from kremas, he dies saving, and ksyu drives away the cart and actually dies from a bandit bullet, as he said because of the revenge of one of those with whom he collided with the greens, as they called it ? the protagonist of soviet cinema could die in the twenties and even in the first half of the thirties, for example chapaev then meant that this was a sacrifice of the future revolution so that the revolution could be made the right sacrifice. yes, in the late sixties, this was no longer accepted ; it violated the principle of a happy ending, optimism, and so on. how could they not have allowed this

to happen? well, he was allowed to do it, because, well, it's unconvincing, how the film would go, because the rest of them are artists. well, in general, they also die, and from the cream, too, must die behind them . only leonov e remains alive in many ways, but real artists as an artist in the performance efremova like extremists, they are dying here, unfortunately, in this tragedy of the revolution , which spares no one in its path, even its creators. and those who create it well , the artistic world is artistic inside out, again a tragic ending. his approved film turned out. well, how was this film received, how was it assessed by the contemporaries of the colleague? well, this is a complicated story for me , still a little mysterious, because they themselves say so that the film lay on the shelf, which we see from the documents according to the documents, the film was adopted at the end of the sixty-ninth year, the film they showed it, at the opening of the season in the cinema house, it was then called a comedy with a sharp mass, then they showed it to the secretariat of the union

of cinematographers, where people gathered who still remembered quite well the beginning of the twenties. sergei yudkevich was there. sergey gerasimov was there, there was cameraman anatoly glavnya, and they assessed just like this, what is it like for gerasimov , the finale was unconvincing, too rounded, but he really liked it. here is this primitivist painting. it turned out that he himself loves such painting, very much, despite the fact that his films were made very social with realistic very correct very boring, according to some, and someone said that the audience in the film is the one who watches. where they are from the cream, the mass somehow does not react very violently to them somehow, they don’t like all this. it feels like our hero is an eye that cries out in the desert. well, and your finale, why do you have a hero dying said anatoly smut? the green one is killing him, but this is a work of art, so it means something, it means, in principle, this is how they treat artists such generalizations that, here and there,

andrey tarkovsky did not give rest from all sorts of people who looked there because they really treat artists and badly in very different ways. sometimes in a very unpleasant way, but it was impossible to say so frankly then, so i convinced all the metals that, well, it's just such an accident and tragedy. he is dying. there are several times throughout the film and uh, it's reality that interferes with our game and so on, but nevertheless the art of it continues. here with this continuation of art, just connected with the change to because the film has already been accepted, and suddenly in the documents for the production in the state cinema, a letter appears signed by alexander rometa. this is already the beginning of the seventieth year, the letter is addressed personally to the head of all soviet cinematography, alexander romanov, and meta writes that we were talking with you, you advised us to change the name and we

gathered here and thought that in one of our scenes our heroes, artists, sing ancient roman burn, burn my star. and it seems to us that this burning is stardom. yes, this is some kind of symbol of this very art that continues to live and does not die, no matter what, and so on and so forth. let us change the name and there remarque a does not mind. it seems that the film changed its name normally, but it even had a premiere in irkutsk. yes, a film crew went. it was the winter of 1970, and then emptiness. here's some kind of failure, there are reviews, but there are no films in theaters. here, according to alexander, don't you film lay on on the shelf according to the documents, this is not very noticeable. not very visible metal recalls that even a positive review, no one could write. i only scolded, but it's not true. all in all, praised the film. not everyone understood. yes, uh, half a year before the schedule or against, but nevertheless, when the film goes down,

it really puts a copy of the film. in the sense of the mother fund, it no longer gets on the screen from there, that is, a copy of the film. can't be seen in any cinema. he according to the documents the film came out the third category. this means that it was just a very limited rental. it was shown in a very small number of copies in a very small number of non -central cinemas, and not immediately after this very premiere in the winter of the seventieth year , it was released already in the autumn of the seventieth year. that is, of course, they marinated, supported , showed little, but there is one tenderloin. let's start from the irkutsk newspaper, where the reviewer writes such a wonderful film that is very useful and interesting for a wide audience and interesting, fascinating, but, unfortunately, if you want to watch it, it's rented. we've already run out. although those who want to see still remained. let's return this film to the screens of irkutsk, i don't know if it was returned or not. well, i think what happened to the movie.

the same story, as with many other clients that are now read as cult ones, thanks to the repetition of color films on television, after all, but for color tvs . by the way, the original films were generally supposed to be black and white, then they changed, and the ability to withdraw in color the same money for the same money. this is actually another creative challenge for ah, alexandra naumovich was. yes, how to make an even more spectacular movie for the same budget. well, a typical situation for a clerical economy is not for the socialist note made commitments and fulfilled them. and the films with interesting rolling fates were from abroad, because when he got to germany, like meta himself, he quickly received cult status there, and here are two such films that were appreciated by german youth. this is tarkovsky's stalker and harry's star. why do we need to actually watch this film now, to review it, or maybe be watching for the first time. in general , to think about what challenges an artist has to face. in general,

how to remain a creative person if you consider yourself an artist and what models of behavior exist? well, as our predecessors, contemporaries, offer us , the twenties in the thirties, in general, in any difficult era. it seems to me that you can also watch it as entertainment . of course, of course, he absolutely does not hide this, that he always makes a movie that will not make you bored alexander mitai. also, by the way, great film educator. he taught in europe and taught in moscow for a very long time, and his method is precisely the creation of an effective work of art. well, he's talking about a movie, we're talking about, maybe, but any work that has a plot work in its composition. he was one of the main propagandists. here is this approach. knowledge of cinema with a three-hundred structure and focusing on this model, and

he, in general, made all his soviet blockbusters that we are blockbusters, we found out later. yes, the film disaster crew or other tapes, but even then, knowing the laws, how the market works. how the economy works knows how to count money. he understood that, as always, there really is a film that will pay for itself, and this is the main thing for a movie about her, but it doesn’t read cinema as art. i'll have to measure it with money, if i bought it for myself two-three-four times, then the film is good. this is the main criterion. here, and the task of the director, made a really interesting exciting spectacular movie. and don't upset investors. that is, burn, burn, my star is an example for us both of how a work of art is created and an example of showing the person who creates this work of art and, uh, an amazing combination of multimedia combination of various materials in this film. and different genres of someone, these genres, then embarrassed in the early seventies and singled out

and the detective said that in guskino. mark the nitpicks saying you have a tragedy or a comedy. you decide what kind of strange comedy genre this is, you didn’t understand this mixing of various elements of different genres in one movie, as sergey gerasimov , the classic of soviet cinema, said after watching this film, that mita reveals the genre. he's trying to summon him, somehow. and this is inner freedom. i think this is ultimately what this film needs to be watched for. it was a podcast of a witness from einstein where we film historians natalya ryabchikova and stanislav dedinsky talk about who and how created the famous unknown forgotten cult soviet films and about why they are needed now see how to find new meanings in them and how to get the most out of them this podcast was dedicated to the 90th anniversary of the remarkable soviet russian director. alexandra goodbye

hello i'm dmitry bug here in the podcast. let them not talk, let them read, and in our podcast, we talk with various wonderful interlocutors about any reading options, so that you do not read parchments, e or modern manuscript readers or your old letters, classics or modern literature. still need to talk about it speculate we argue who exactly reads. who makes literature, who writes, we talk about what to read, but today we will talk about a very special topic. and how does reading happen to us, what happens with it, how do we read reading. it's part of consciousness. this is part of our thinking

of our intellect. this is what we will talk about today with our wonderful guest , tatyana vladimirovna chernigovskaya , a specialist in the field of cognitive sciences. hello dear tatyana vladimirovna, hello. i'm very glad to talk with you today, when i chose how to present you, then, i settled on the definition of specialists in the field of cognitive science. generally correct. it is very narrow and at the same time wide. i would say that it is rather broad, because the cognitive sciences include many different sciences, therefore philosophy, of course. because, if we say awareness, then where mathematics is even included without philosophy. biology, of course, everything is in order missing. one could say that tatyana chernigovskaya is doctor of biological sciences doctor philological, but most importantly, today it is

cognitive science. as you, of course, understood. well, the root of such a semi-familiar hypnosis, i know to drive, the assiology of knowledge. when we talked to you before the broadcast, i remembered hmm how alexander vasilievich pyatigorsky, our great , humanist, philosopher, researcher of buddhism, uh, presented his book, being no longer young. he said, so, i came here and i see. uh, two ladies talking. one speaks. oh, how difficult it is to live, and the other answers her. and you be philosophical, don't think wonderful, a brilliant definition, given that he is an imamardashvili. both separately and together , they repeatedly wrote about the enormous labor of thinking, that it is very difficult to keep the thought, that the process of thinking itself is very difficult, regardless of the topic. and we don't even realize it. yes, because we often think about what exactly we think, yes, what's on the topic. that's how it all

happens in us, by the way, a very difficult process. i tried somehow to engage in such introspection and think about how i think it's almost. can things you know u tolstoy, which we will talk about today? i hope u in the story. uh, boyhood is a genius piece. i remember him almost from memory. he sounds so inclined lighthouse distracted. e thinking drove me to the extreme. for example, i thought about something and created questions for myself, and what i was thinking about and answered. now. i think about what i think, and now what am i thinking about, i asked myself. and now i'm thinking about what i 'm thinking about what i'm thinking mind after time came to a point wonderful this is generally a recursion called. i mean, if we translate this into our avian scientific language, then it will be in the know when here is one in the other in

the other, this is how we cuckle this. it's very difficult. it hinders life. look here. for example, i am looking at tatyana vladimirovna chernigovskaya now, whom i respect very much. i love him, i love to communicate with her and we are no longer about you, but thinking about what is happening to me at this time. yes, i try, yes, and that's it, and you have already dissolved. i don't think it's right anymore. no, well, it is. we know this, and we are so dissolved when we read, if soon we are in the subject let them not speak, let them consider. yes, yes, and in general, when in any art we, uh, drowned. yes, that is, well, as if you were already gone, but it's very difficult because, here i am recently, and i thought how difficult it is to listen to music. i mean, not yes, but seriously, but music so that you don’t get carried away by the stream of your

own thoughts, so that you don’t cling not to some external physical landmarks in front of your eyes, not to internal ones, which is more difficult , what is there to cling to? that you know me once just plowed phrase theodore adorn. well, he is also a musicologist, as we well remember, in addition to all his other talents, and he said an amazing thing. we are now getting closer to the topic of technology, about which i was going to ask you, and he said, so that in order to really hear the music. you must first get to where it is performed. oh , what a brilliance, after all, of course, live music and that of any even very good. uh, the device is leaking. it's a completely different effect though. although physically. this it is almost impossible to explain, because these modern devices are, after all, of a very

high class. well, yes, yes, but that's not it at all. there is oneself somehow has to grasp. this is a living situation, living life. i think the reason for this is that you understand that this is the only time here, and it won't happen again, when you come to the symphony concert. you understand that this music will float forever, even if it is recorded on a tape recorder, that is, tarkovsky said andrei tarkovsky spoke about captured time. uh-huh, that is, well, we remember that from eisensteins - this is a montage of a comparison of different plans. and for tarkovsky it is a long long misan. a frame, like at the beginning of a mirror movie, where you find yourself inside this life. that is, you have to impose an artist. now these by the way, about shamans, by the way, about shamans. we also talked about this, though, because they use some kind of their own, but very strange instruments that they themselves are not aware of, i think. they draw you into another time and

wine and space. yes, that is you something else, this is some very significant transition. in general, to be honest, uh, you know, recently it occurred to me that it occurred that if we all finish our game, and there will be no more people on this planet, and then something will happen and either some more intelligent and uh, maybe more moral beings will fly in from other uh universes and something here. yes and so, they will look at what is left of us, then, i think, but with amendments, but still the main thing will turn out to be artificial. of course, i think this seriously, of course, my fellow scientists will tell me no. well, you forgot einstein there, that's all, i didn't forget anything, but what can

no one else do? and only man can create worlds, and worlds are art. and it can be said that art is the last refuge from the algorithmization of technologization. here i am talking to students, but no brief retellings, well, i drank a pill and realized it was karenina. no, but it won’t work, you have to talk, but, but it’s funny to us, because we are brought up in approximately the same culture, we understand, yes, of course, this is such a conversation to have with people, who are already in another world. i mean, didn't speak posthumously. well, it's like a different environment is very difficult, because you don't even understand how to explain it. there is such a person, steven pinger, who, well , of these books into russian, and he was translated very much not to omsk, their omsk, of course, is smarter than him there, the kholmsk politics of a linguist. well

, in short, uh, chomsky. of course, it is not comparable to the larger one, so, uh, narcissistic steven pinker. uh, in several places, writes the following art is like clean. he writes that, in principle, if e art disappeared, then in general, nothing special would have happened, because the main things are not there, the main things are such that the cartridges are there, yes or measure and weigh. here, and it's like, when you're already tired of real life, yes, you can look at art. here, even though you shoot me. um , i think it can't be the other way around . art is exactly what distinguishes and moving on to our topic. and of course, first of all , writing, in general. we most, most importantly, geniuses do not know who invented the needle,

for example, who is a knife, well, we don’t talk about forks, because it appeared very late, yes , but there was some kind of genius who came up with the idea hmm what’s not good when all the knowledge that you have accumulated will go away with you still, it would be nice to take care of relatives and leave something for them. well, that is, this is copying reduplication. uh, you know , once, uh, nikolai grinzer. e now cherenkor son, the youngest son of palas sancheri. eh, he asked me do you read plato and i say, i read all the time. yes, and then calm down about e-books, because plato, after all , was dissatisfied when they copied , reduced, and replicated. rather, he was taught socrates. yes, uh, that is to say, one must learn to just walk with him next to socrates, and they were right. and they were right. oh well, that is the great inventor. he for the first time hmm multiplied and replicated something later and

the language of typography, now the computer, well , let's not talk about watson crick and about the double helix. and dna but uh, it's a trap how would you evaluate the two events of the last month on the one hand. uh, great american technologist. e electric car, well, the check is quite bright and so on on the one hand. he calls for limiting research in the field of artificial intelligence. and in a few weeks, probably, yes, he gets permission. e to put experience. e by neuroscoping. that's right, he got that permission. this is contradictory. eh, one to the other. is it a dead end or not? or is it progress it is my own fault that i uttered the word progress in the first place. uh, i doubt that there is progression, except for technology,

of course, there is a yoke of technology, after all, from the fontanka near where i live. i don’t carry water, and for trying to destroy such a large object or entity as a washing machine, i’ll just kill anyone, because without it it’s impossible to live with difficulties. and i'm not being rude, i don't mean, and potash. i'm talking seriously. and here is but since this story with neural networks, these gpt are all these options. she worried me terribly and, moreover, she began to worry me before it appeared. namely, that they will appeared 12 years later. they are here, like these guys are here. and at the same time, and i'm sure all the people i spoke to, including the developers, because i had the opportunity to talk with one of them a while ago. uh-huh. now, everyone

understands what this step is. this is a step into another civilization in general, absolutely, and in this civilization it is not at all a fact that we have a place for a person. there is no place there, because we are a yellow lump of mucus that can live between minus thirty and plus thirty yes , god knows what and even if we get up a good way for you and me inside this conversation, namely yes, but they cannot create such art, which they cannot, they can do quite a lot of things in general, another question. do we consider it art and why add beethoven yes, and here we are asking me the same question all the time like a maniac and i will ask you, that is, it is rhetorical, namely, we plan to live here. are we still planning to live on this planet or not? i think not everyone is planning, because i remember the soviet cartoon about vovka in far far away, where two

young man identical from the face. there, something persuaded the stove to bake pies, or something, but also perplexed, vovka, this question. what are you going to eat yourself? of course, we will eat ourselves and throw ourselves over you. that is, you are no longer needed, that's the point. well, what do you need to do to somehow stop. well, i 'll try to be very short, and the danger. what is the danger? eh, that's what i'm saying, kind of what i think myself. that is, i definitely agree with what i will say now, but this and what scares me much more is this and what they themselves think, and developers, namely their scares. and i didn't come up with the word. they were afraid, the most honest of them were afraid. er, two things, firstly, the speed of development of these things is calculated in days. you see, when we used

to talk, we talked in 15 years, in 20 in 30. these days are our physiological nature. three cameras on the phone do not keep up with this. and i don't need them, and tomorrow there will be eight cameras. for what? yes, this is a terrible story, firstly, these things learn very quickly themselves, and secondly, they began to learn. so that even the developers themselves are not very understand what is happening. this is the most dangerous thing. well, reading winter. yes, as a matter of fact, the three laws of the employer foresaw everything. this is true, in addition, for some reason, as a default such consciousness, for some reason we believe that artificial intelligence, a potential large strong artificial intelligence, which does not exist yet, that he is right asleep and sees how no one promised to become human, except that no one told us to ourselves that they would follow

this path, this only path, and even take a path we won't understand. i think we don't understand anymore. in my youth i was very fond of lemma, i corresponded with him, yes, 22 volumes of them, half of the treatises and the late lemm understood all this, yes, and the same solaris clearly says that e is simply a subject in the singular. the other already has a different subjectivity, right? what did you feel? having signed a contract with the house of dior , i can say that i do not agree with certain elements of this heritage. sometimes it's important to say no. the process of creating fashion is considered much more glamorous than it is when you see the dress, you understand that it is perfectly tailored blood. one of the most important operations , thanks to the modern cut, the dress

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iss selfie after you lather your head and don't rinse on saturday on first reminder, this is a podcast. let them talk, let them read. i am dmitry bug, my guest is tatyana vladimirovna chernigovskaya, a specialist in the field of cognitive sciences. and we continue our conversation about modern art, about artificial intelligence, and about why it is still necessary to read a lot and carefully. please tell me a

why are buddhist practices so relevant? you struck me simply by sending materials from a recent animal conference. yes. yes. it was called. uh, animal conce conference. that's exactly what it was called with the blessing of support. right at the residence, and then walked, because it was quite long, namely 5 days for such conferences. this is a lot, as you and i usually know about three days and uh , which is interesting that they took part there, all the speakers were invited, and there, of course, there were reports that, uh, go through the roof, because let's say the consciousness of an octopus is the consciousness of a hydra. the consciousness of bees is the consciousness of snails. i don't speak higher. we are not the only ones, that is , it is impossible to measure the world, because we see the world is not

anthropoid at all. yes, of course, of course, it's still here. trap and with this all professionals agree, except for stupid ones, namely, we have no agreement on what we will consider to be no consciousness. this is a very large spectrum at one end of which is generally, uh, any reaction to anything is like a conscious gesture, and then infusoria shoes. actually, buddhism is erupting allah, it is not alive. it is you who are pulling us into the field of vernadsky culture, but it still doesn’t matter, and on the other hand, at the other end of this spectrum, there are those who believe that consciousness is awareness , that is, reflection, that is what we talked about

at home. i'm thinking what i'm thinking dargo, yes, and it's a huge space. so when we ask a question. and does the fish have knowledge, then we must agree what we mean and moreover, here is such an ulcer, like me, for example will speak. and how do you know that this fish has a goldfish in her head? maybe she 's there what serious thoughts she has, that is, well, we'll go so far. you know, but in our family this is all very developed. although we are not buddhists. no i won't be long won't plan an octopus. i always felt that i never eat in spain many years ago, but i was so ashamed, then, when i found out what well smart, but mine it is. it’s terrible, really, here you can get to the point that now even plants think,

so attack, because in the end you can't breathe because there's a lot of things flying around here. yes, there are bacteria. well, i don't know, my wife's mom doesn't raise her hand to tell my mother-in-law that she's younger than me, she can stand spiders, well , that was good. well, at home, yes, yes, yes, we have turtles, all snails. but there is such a lady, fashion designer parfyonova, perhaps, you know, she is absolutely brilliant. by the way, we are a mathematician. as a result, we became friends with her very interestingly, she is a maniac of all kinds of plants and insects. tarakashek. this topic was lord in the garden, but she is weeding something apologies to every weed. he says, i'm sorry, it's my own fault. he grew up in the wrong world, definitely yes, he grew up in the wrong place, otherwise i wouldn’t have touched you for anything, but here, no matter how you’re supposed to be

, i’m sorry, imagine, while she’s not a maniac, and she not crazy. you know, i was once shocked by your phrase. i don't remember, you wrote it, but you have a lot of books. here is one of them, by the way, on the table i have the cheshire smile of schrödinger's cat yes, the book by tatyana chernigovskaya the brain is the language of consciousness , so once i read you that the brain runs on a ten watt light bulb. that is, thank god, there is still some kind of glimpse of hope, yes, that is, there is technology, but for now, there remains this uh, strange uh, phenomenon of the brain, uh, which is not clear how the brain works, the most complex thing in the universe except for itself universe. at least from what we know anything about its complexity. just sorry for the tautology and goes beyond our general understanding, as i say. brain we do not care about our brains.