[000:00:00;00] there are kilometers between us for you garik sukachev acoustic concert tomorrow at the first i remind you that this is a podcast of witness eisenstein where we talk about who and

how created classic cult little-known forgotten soviet films and today we talk about one of these films. it can be called a cult burn burn, my star is doing. we are in connection with the ninetieth anniversary of its director alexander naumovich meta, in principle, this is an unusual film for the soviet, cinema also because it, well, you can say multimedia in it there is a story about the theater in it there is cinema, and the third hypostasis is painting - it can be said that even frescoes are sculpture, that is, visual art is static and a wonderful production designer helped to embody this on the screen. boris blank and two artists from the soyuzmultfilm studio who actually created these incredible colorful drawings. uh, the statues are painted apples on a tree, which are created by the hero of oleg efremov. yes, this is alina

speshneva and her husband nikolai serebryakov. here they are responsible, including for the wonderful, and the drawn stavochki that open the eyes of this film, after all, the eyes remained there. and why are there these painted inserts? and, because when the actor was replaced, they no longer had money to reshoot something , they had to finish shooting a little later, they were allowed to do it, but for the same money, as was customary in soviet cinema. let 's see, actually, how this art style, in which the number came partly from the animation, was embodied on the screen. you want me to leave as soon as possible, but i just located sit sit and chat. well

, sit down. step aside. interesting interestingly today leonov's cinematographer was the first to sit down , these paintings that we see on the walls during the filming and after the release of the film were compared with the works not a copy of the blur. we can compare these works with chagall. for some reason, they didn't use it then. perhaps not so well known was drawn and the last of his last films. it was called chagall and took off malevich, which was filmed several years ago. here is the topic art interested him throughout his career. but this white officer is also very similar to someone, but not an actor, but a director, well, actually there is a director

vladimir naumov. in addition to director vladimir mov, the film also starred, for example, marlin safe in the film of which alexander ivanovich da himself played legal rain in the film, where he played such a botanist who loves to collect various facts. everything happens at the same time, they change, even they were subsequently reproached for the fact that they they create some kind of skit on the screen, that this is each other, different directors are filming in small small mystical roles, what they want to tell us with this, what kind of circus it is, but nevertheless, how the routine of this scene. these three artists had a dialogue with each other, where, in fact, they discussed, in general. what is the choice? yes , what is the mission of each of these artists credo and that artist, well, some kind of graphic artist, whom he also elevates in status to an artist alone survive even in troubled times. this is the main motto for filmmakers. in this case, when the film began to be discussed, it is clear that the hero of leonov is a negative example.

this is the very compromise that should not be in the life of an artist of the revolution and , for example, reviewers perceived it with some kind of apprehension, like a negative one, but somehow leonov plays it. somehow contradictory, we like it, we get used to it. in general, we also understand his pain, his desire to survive and with the expiration of decades. yes, and alexander ivanovich metal, turning his gaze to this the film recalls this phrase of leonov to survive. as in general, what was the task of the soviet artist, but to survive in art. yes, this film is not closed. here you need to change the actor, you need to make some editing corrections. but you need to catch all the time that they couldn’t close the film just like that, it was quite difficult , because the reporting is complicated, and the money was taken from the bank, and in order to shoot any film, any soviet studio took

a loan from the bank, which then after the acceptance of the film by the state of cinema was compensated with the help of state funds, but this money, as it were, returned to the studio in the bank in this way. it was actually quite a complex system, so just take it, but seem from some kind of project, well, it was practically impossible, yes, that is, it is a loss. and who will cover this loss, and for the cops - this, of course, is a school of life. in a certain sense, this film, because it had to fit into the border budget. and what we see on the screen, in fact. this is largely a compromise. how save money and still make a good film, and he did it perfectly for himself - the meta worked out then, and the combination and then it's a review. this is also used, that this is on the one hand a film reflection of its theme. in general, quite serious, even if he sees his audience as high school students who do not know anything, and artists in the revolution. the theme of reflection film reflection form of entertainment attraction - it's all bright,

it's any format, and any material that somehow affects you. it may maybe even fire smoke. and this is a big shot in the movie. yes, this is all that you break us out of some familiar, and the feeling of viewing all that pulls us, of course, is an astrologer. come on one more time. let's see, here's a snippet. e with prokloklova, where she plays just zhanna shock. and where the fire smoke just starts on the screen, this very attraction, as einstein would say, who was very often talking about the sparks of the mass performed by oleg tabakov, they said that this is exactly such a prototype of the hero who created

electricians. it is interesting that in the original literary script one of his names was three deaths in life or two deaths 5 deaths of vladimirovich, but at the same time he remained alive at the end of the literary script the main characters leave for horizon to new creative achievements by opening to the creation of new theaters and looking at the fog. proklova girl kyse says that look, a very everyday comparison we call it everything that a hare brews beer, but without cream, she disagrees or some kind of ideology. i don't seem to be hiding. over the horizon in the film, the masses are dying

saves in a cart and actually dies from a gangster bullet, as he said because of the mission of one of those whom he encountered along with the greens, what is it called? the protagonist of soviet cinema could die in the twenties and even in the first half of the thirties, for example chapaev then it meant that this was a victim of the future revolution so that the revolution could make sacred sacrifices. yes, in the late sixties, this was no longer accepted ; it violated the principle of a happy ending, optimism, and so on. how did they not allow it at all to do, but he was allowed to do it because, well, it's unconvincing, how the film would go, because the rest of them are artists. well, in general, the anthem is also the same, and from the cream, too, should die behind them. only leonov remains. and in many ways he is alive, but the real artists, like the artist performed by efremov

and like a from the cream with here they are dying with us, unfortunately, in this tragedy a revolution that spares no one in its path, even its creators. and those who create it well , the artistic world is artistic inside out, again a tragic ending. it was approved the film turned out. well, how was this film received, how was it assessed by the contemporaries of the colleague? well, this is a complicated story for me, still a little mysterious, because they themselves say so that the film lay on the shelf, what we see from the documents according to the documents, the film was accepted at the end of the sixty-ninth year, the film was shown, uh, at the opening of the season in the cinema house it was then called a comedy with a sharp mass, then they showed it to the secretariat of the union of cinematographers, where people gathered who still remembered quite well the beginning of the twenties. sergei yudkevich was there. there there was sergey gerasimov there was a cameraman anatoly glavnya, and they assessed just like that, what it is for gerasimov, the finale was unconvincing, too rounded, but he really liked it. here is this primitivist

painting. it turned out that he himself loves such painting, he loves it very much, despite the fact that his films were made very realistic , very correct, very boring, according to some, and someone said that the audience in the film are the ones who watch. doing with the cream , the mass somehow does not react very violently to them somehow, they don’t like it all. such the feeling that our hero is an eye crying out in the desert. well, your final. why do you have a hero dying said anatoly smut? the green one is killing him, but this is a work of art, so it means something , it means, in principle, such generalizations treat artists like that, which, uh, andrey tarkovsky, did not give rest from all sorts of people who watched his films, because indeed artists are treated and badly treated in very different ways. sometimes in a very unpleasant way, but it was impossible to say frankly then, therefore, i convinced all metals that, well, it's just such an accidental

tragedy. he is dying. there are several times throughout the film and uh, it's reality that interferes with our game and so on, but nevertheless the art of it continues. it is with this continuation of art that the change to is just connected. because the film has already been accepted, and suddenly, in the documents for the production in the state cinema, a letter appears signed by alexander rometa. this is already the beginning of the seventieth year, the letter is addressed personally to the head of all soviet cinematography, alexander romanov and meta writes that we talked with you, you advised us to change the name and we gathered here and thought that in one of our scenes our heroes and artists were singing old romances. harry harry is my star. and it seems to us that this burning is stardom. yes, this is some kind of symbol of this very art that continues to live and does not die, no matter what, and so on and so forth. let us change the name and there remarque does not mind, it seems that

the film changed its name normally, but it even had premiere in irkutsk yes, a film crew went. it was in the winter of the seventieth year, and further emptiness further. here is some kind of failure, there are reviews, but there are no films in cinemas. here, according to alexander not you , the film was lying on the shelf according to the documents, this is not very noticeable. not very visible metal recalls that even a positive review, no one could write, if only scolded, but this is not true. all. in general, the film was praised. not everyone understood. yes, uh, half a year before the schedule or against it, but nonetheless. this is when the movie lays down, really lays down a copy of the film in the state fund on a separate shelf for her. from there it no longer hits the screen, that is, a copy of the film. can't be seen in any cinema. he according to the documents the film came out the third category. that means he just had a very limited rental. it was shown in a very small number of copies in a very small number of non-central cinemas, and not

immediately after this very premiere in the 1970s it was released already in the autumn of the 1970s. that is, of course, marinated, held, showed little, but there is one clipping, let's say from the irkutsk newspaper, where the reviewer writes such a wonderful film that is very useful and for a wide audience and interesting and exciting, but, unfortunately, if you want to watch it, its rental. we've already run out. although those who want to see still remained. let's return this film to the screens of irkutsk, i don't know if it was returned or not. well, i think what happened to the movie. same story as with many other clients now read as cult favorites thanks to reruns on tv color cinema after all, but for color tvs. by the way, the original films were generally supposed to be black and white, then they changed it, and the ability to shoot in color is the same money for the same money. this is actually another creative challenge for ah, aleksandra naumovich was. yes, how

to make an even more spectacular movie for the same budget. well, a typical situation for a clete. not for the socialist, but having lived, he took upon himself the obligation and fulfilled them, and the films were interesting rolling fate was from abroad, because when he got to germany as the meta himself recalled, he quickly gained cult status there, and here are two such films that were appreciated by the german youth. this is tarkovsky's stalker and woe, burn my star. why do we actually need to watch this film now , re-watch it, or maybe watch it for the first time. in general, to think about what challenges an artist has to face. in general, how to remain a creative person if you consider yourself an artist and what models of behavior exist? well, as our predecessors offer us contemporaries of the twenties in the thirties, in general, in any difficult era. it seems to me that you can also watch it as entertainment

. of course, of course, yes, he absolutely does not hide this, that there is always a movie that alexander mitai does not make you bored. and by the way, he's a great film educator. he taught in europe and taught for a very long time in moscow, and his method is precisely the creation of an effective work of art. well, he's talking about the movie we're talking about, maybe any work that has a story plot in its composition . for some reason he was one of the main propagandists. that's it for the creation of cinema from a three-fact structure and focusing on this model, and he, in general, made all his soviet blockbusters that we are blockbusters, we learned later. yes, the film disaster crew or other tapes, but even then, uh, knowing the laws of how the market works. how the economy works knows how to count money. he understood, as always, really a film that will pay for itself. and that's what cinema is all about. i'll have to does not read cinema as art. i'll have to measure

it with money, if i bought it for myself two three four times, then the film is good. this is the main criterion. that is the task of the director. made a really interesting fascinating spectacular movie. and don't upset investors. that is, grief, shine, my star is an example for us of how a work of art is created and an example of showing the person who creates this work of art and, uh, an amazing combination of a multimedia combination of various, and materials in this movie. and these genres confused someone in the early seventies and the detective said that in the state cinema. mark the nitpicks saying you have a tragedy or a comedy. you decide what kind of strange genre of comedy this is, you didn’t understand this mixture of various elements of different genres in cinema, as sergey gerasimov said the classic of soviet cinema after watching this film, because mita

reveals the genre. he tries to release it as well somehow. and this inner freedom it seems to me that in the end, then why should you watch this movie. it was a podcast of a witness from eisenstein where we film historians natalia ryabchikova stanislava dedinsky talk about who and how created the famous unknown forgotten cult soviet films and why we need to watch them now, how to find new meanings in them and how to get the most out of them pleasure this podcast was dedicated to the 90th anniversary of the remarkable soviet russian director. alexandra you are goodbye hello this is a podcast easy money and i am its host mikhail khanov and today we have a difficult but very important topic that concerns absolutely everyone paid and

free medicine. how much does it cost to be treated? and most importantly , leo bokeria will recover as my guest. the legend of russian medicine , the leading cardiac surgeon of russia and the chief. uh, a cardiac surgeon, if i may, so to speak , the bakal national medical research center for cardiovascular surgery, which you headed for many years. i think that e 25 years headed. and before that , they probably worked for the same number of years, er, as a deputy director. let's start right away with such a difficult question, where is it generally worth being treated in our country. a paid or free clinic is a different thing, let's say. here is what concerns cardiovascular surgery. there, of course, there should be a state clinic. this is 100%, because large groups of people around one patient are involved there. that's all there is to major surgery. this, of course, must be done

by others. is this an open surgery or what? well , it's open heart surgery. this is neurosurgery. these are big operations inside, so to speak, the abdominal cavity and so on . anything that requires a fairly long nursing in the intensive care unit, so uh, i understand that we have a complete concept in the medical community in this regard. we know we will say that open heart surgery should not be done in private clinics, because this is really a process that can end very badly and with a court, whatever you want. the same can be said about large operations on an erosurgical profile. the same can be said, but big traumatology and so on, maybe follow the doctor. it's just that i'm on my own example, my wife had several operations on the tunnel nerve. here, on the fingers, the fingers do not bend, and we just went specifically for the surgeons, who once saved, my daughter's finger. so the operation

went very, an expensive operation in a private clinic, but nonetheless. well, you understand not everyone lives in moscow, st. petersburg and in big cities, so when we talk about moscow or st. petersburg, then my idea is that private clinics try to keep the same level as the state a clinic, at least, and then the patient has a problem if he has the opportunity to go to a private clinic, because there are no queues there, with all the ensuing consequences, there is an opinion that oh, you know, as we always said, let's go back a little, that the soviet union has the best medicine, and is it free medicine in russia, free or not? here you are now, we are addressing your experience to the head of the largest cardiac surgery center. you know i never had a private

practice. all my life, all my conscious life, after the first moscow medical institute, which i graduated from the postgraduate institute, i immediately went to the center, which is called the bakulev center, and my whole life to this day passes as part of this center, therefore, and i have some minimal let's say representations. i once accompanied my wife to a private dental clinic there. well, it was her choice, sort of. but your children are grandchildren, they are all being treated as state daughters. doctors. here they are not treated yet, but if that's how, well, healthy, girls, yes, and grandchildren of health, i have all the pieces here is a rich one. they are true, well, thank you, here they are, the girls grew up healthy and the grandchildren grow up healthy. and if not, you know, they often argue about

when to go to the doctor and so on. hmm, there is such a classic, let's say, but the message, er, in medicine, that a person should see a doctor when he feels something like that, because there is a giant trend . you see, go checkups. yes, we drove to be examined, there the fifth twentieth is mandatory they will find something that does not play any role. and then a doctor begins to appear in a person with not such equipment, maybe this. let's say some. um, there is the duration of the complex. there the psychosomatics, slightly enlarged further, begins. and this one who is, then, says , shows, and then the usual quirks begin in a person, you understand, therefore, not all doctors will write down the advice correctly. we are programs all the time. i teach our audience to write. well, it's generally useful. yes, uh,

so that i remember everything, like at lectures to a student. yes, what to write down, i know everything , weeks go by. you already forgot everything. so, uh, we write down that you don’t need to wind yourself up about the fact that you are sick with everything and you always need to think that i missed the next check-up, since now you can say the annual two-year three-year there is the most important criterion for what that something happened, it's a pain. that is, and the feeling that something is wrong with you, yes , it tells you, uh, the leading cardiac surgeon in russia for many years. eh, leona antonovich bakiri, you should only go to the doctor when you if you feel something is not right, this is a reason to go to the doctor, it is available. yes? let's talk now about the availability of such heavy necessary heavy ones. i mean, uh, in terms of importance, hard things, like heart surgery. eh, it's available to everyone, and let's say that our capacities allow it. yes, i will absolutely say it, i say it

as the main specialist in this section. you see, we have a huge network of such centers, where, for example, in moscow there are several clinics in st. there is not. you take a direction, relatively speaking, if you don’t like something there. come to moscow, go. petersburg is the biggest problem. this was faced with the fact that they do not give the direction above, that is, give give me no right. and they are obliged to give if they don’t give it. so i say, on the air , write specially to the ministry of health, write to the leading institutions. the topic will be decided. you see, it is impossible to turn such a serious tool as the provision of highly qualified specialized assistance. that's something there give do not give and so on. there is

one law for everyone, and every citizen of the russian federation has the right to be operated on. where he wants to be recorded, every citizen has the right to himself, where he wants it is important to get a referral. if they didn’t give it, then we turn to the ministry of health well, if it’s possible there, you can write a letter without unemployment. well, i speak in my specialty, write a letter to the center of cardio- other mini-baculev, we will definitely call you understand that with a large number of operating rooms we have? i am yes, no. well, there are a lot of such centers in the russian federation you well. we will say, so 80 plus at that age. you don't just lead various medical associations, you share your experience. you are also a practicing surgeon. i operate every day, well, in a different way now is such a period that there are simply fewer patients. and so i

had the largest number of operations up to seven per day. here, and i repeat one more time, maybe this is a year from such a few patients. well, one or two operations now. and why are there fewer operations now, returning to our topic in private medicine, it is obvious that they are leaving, because it's impossible, because they found out they go abroad. no, why? i don't know, i think, i think that this is the network that we have created in the country of cardiac surgery. profile, i think that she is starting to slowly cope with requests. tell me, here you are, when you came, uh, after the sechinavka, you came here. at the bakulev institute, there was ever an idea to open a private clinic, never in my life, because i think that, firstly, the period that i lived. uh, it was not accepted, even the nineties zero. well, yes, no. well, how is it for chickens? do you understand the laugh? this is

such a large team of people who are busy with one patient that this is unrealistic in a private clinic. we make a diagnosis of a born heart disease when it is still in the womb of the mother and we solve the problem. after how many days to operate on him, well , for many years i dealt with these issues, and we had a child come to us directly from the kulakovsky center, lie down for a day and we precisely that he would die. you see, these operations that are done on the heart, they are very expensive. and so, of course, the private sector in this section is actually. but there is in america, yes, basically, private clinics of such a high level, but they exist, they came from something, they had some kind of foundation for many years and so on, and still today they lag behind in terms of

volume in terms of the quality of the operation. this is from the fact that, let's say, there is such a bakery , a commercial department. no. no, that is, you have we have patients who do not have a referral. here, yes, and such there is a way, but they pay exactly as much as the state pays us, if it's not a secret, how much, well, these are different from to, well, everyone wants 100,000. cleaning lady million well, no, no, well, he i am, i'm really afraid range from 100 to 500 thousand 500 less less, and the most severe heart surgery. and what, by the way, is the most difficult operation on your own , if you say little ones? yeah, this is the so-called transposition of large vessels. this is when the aorta emerges from the right ventricle

and the pulmonary artery from the left. that is on the contrary, and it’s blue, revda yes, and there, at first, hmm, such a procedure is urgently done, let’s say the child expands , is born with a hole to come so that he can’t breathe during the mother’s time, so the blood mixes and thus he lives at the expense of oxygen , which gives moms and this message is stored for some time when he was born, then it overgrows in a number of people, well, it doesn’t overgrow and then we close everything surgically, but we try not to start it, because then pulmonary hypertension develops with all these same ones. well, this is what it looks like in time. how long does the operation last, well, different operations. well, this is a short operation. if we talk about a defect in the interpressive septum, then artificial circulation, it takes 30-40 minutes. and if you are doing multi-valve prosthetics, for example, a mitral valve, an oral valve, a tricuspid valve, you need it there, let's say artificial circulation

can last up to 2 hours in the states how much does such an operation, which you described or antonovich cardiac surgery cost, tens of thousands tens, of course, of course, but good. here, but in perspective. so i just wanted to talk about this topic, because in the states, uh, a doctor's call. if i don't have medical insurance, it costs 200 dollars. and even medicine. he can't prescribe you any sneeze there. goes, uh, for serious serious money, calling an ambulance costs 1,000. and even one and a half. here i had a precedent, i had to call there for my wife in cologne at the airport and then present the check, i understood. well, there was a case i had an example was an example in europe in germany yes in the mouth, if you are exactly between cologne and düsseldorf. the airport is located there just as examples, but it was paid by the insurance, of course, but without insurance. uh, as we say, it’s not there, and not the courts, but only in the states yes, without medical insurance, that

’s why they all bake like that, and in sweden they say that state medicine is very high quality, well, there is a 52% personal income tax, they are like in russia 13. and here do you think, from the point of view of your work experience in head of such an institution the state moves. in what direction is he trying to develop his segment of public medicine more to invest there? investing money there in the development of specialists in training, or it still allows for the availability of e-paid medicine in private clinics, it is clear that in your case, this is quite difficult and here you can not be afraid of competition, if only with other clinics in other countries, but in the case, and the other medicine is not even necessarily dentistry. here are the general trends. where are we going? well you know how it seems to me that i say this very sincerely. it seems to me that the system that is chosen in our country.

she is for a person. it's perfect in the sense, in the sense that really any person can get medical help, even if he can't walk, you know, the doctor will send an ambulance for him and arrive in 4 hours, like in america, yes, yes. exactly, that's why if we talk about this former very backward country, which nevertheless retained the population in good quality. we have a healthy population. we started drinking less. that's about it. we must also say, you understand, because it had a very large negative effect, so to speak. here is this solid drunkenness, which was on the face. i lived through this entire period, when i lived in general, there and so on. there's something like this today has become much less really just know. becomes sellers of alcohol. yes, and so on and so forth, and i think that to a large extent this is due to the fact that we have a well- organized healthcare system.

that is, we are now shaking in a good way the fruits of e-medicine of the soviet union we do not reap we do not reap. and we use we have the opportunity, you know, to live in peace thanks to the previous one. let's talk about frames. you feel a shortage of personnel in your profession, you feel the quality of education, that is, uh, what is missing or enough or everything is fine, here with specialists it is easy to find a shortage. you know the fact is that this system is also magnificently built. in our country, everyone at all institutes, if postgraduate studies and residency and we prepare for ourselves, well, for ourselves cooking for others that you smoke. courses yes, no, no, they come, well, many go to our circle. we have a scientific student circle at the institute, but it’s not about them, it’s just advanced guys, so it’s about the fact that

he is undergoing residency, he is undergoing graduate school, if an intelligent person, he defends his thesis off and on, so this is the vertical lined up. i think that it is built perfectly, you know, i have been to many countries, including the states, i am there something else at the american college of surgeons myself such a prestigious one. so i can say that when they come to us. they are surprised. frankly speaking, here's to learn this built-up system. well, they never come to study, no, but we had many years, signed by brezhnev in the soviet-american cooperation, and i must say that in general, cooperation is necessary for any country. well, this cooperation was incredibly useful, because we saw a lot of things that we did not do, and they saw a lot of things that are now in recent years