irina, you know, he reminded anyone. all of a sudden , now i have such a wonderful writer celine, he reminded me of celine's marings, they are completely different, but this is an incredible figurativeness of the language when you are like a flurry flying at you. something you don't understand at all. what is it? oleg, tell me, please, what is the place of marings. e, took. let's just say in a general literary context due to the fact that the novel was banned, yes, and it was released there only in the late eighties. it seems to me that we are rings, for many it went unnoticed. he is not so popular, like yesenin, and we don’t know much about him, so it’s just interesting to understand. what place did he occupy in the literary system, given that he had lived all his life in russia, about all his life he lived in russia , in the mid-twenties he managed to ride around and in europe was in berlin, was in paris, he went there, looked, is it worth it to get out of russia if you choose such yes, and what is? the experience

of his comrade and friends who have already emigrated, such as the same alexander borisovich kuysikov about the rest yes, and he realized that a without russia could not. yes, and in europe there is nothing to do, that he will go there. how will you have to work, because for prose for poetry there it’s as serious as they won’t pay in soviet russia, that is , he would be very much limited by options for migration, of course, about his place in literature, then malenkov is trying to find himself. after prose is forbidden to him, he understands what to write. uh, some co- realist prose text is not about him. that was great. it seems to me that here he tried, yes, well, maybe he didn’t write everything on the sly, but in the 10s he switched to mimoras, and my age of my youth is my friend’s notes of a forty-year-old man, but hmm, these are your descendants, right? and this is the golden fund

of our memoirs, yes, and in fact, in the thirties, he moved to leningrad yes, and there they get acquainted with all the wonderful writers, such as schwartz's zoushchenko mikhail kazakov a. boris mikhailovich ekhenbaum writer vet danianov and so on. this is such a leningrad bohemia soviet bohemia all the thirties, he writes plays. yes, and plays. here just the same, but rather realistic, yes, but what was the fate of these plays. they were successful. here are some that were successful, but most were filmed after two hundred tutors before the general rehearsal, still 100 performances. no. solid, but not enough by soviet standards to see the writer all the time dissatisfied. the way things are going for them, although from my point of view of the marings, lucky because he

was not repressed. he earned literary income, which is actually quite a lot when he came with kirochnaya to borodino, and hmm, it’s in st. petersburg, yes, the next tenants who moved into the apartment, yes, left memories later that they call in there, and the entrance door has some kind of insane number of locks , 10 pieces of a chain of some kind. well, it's the thirties . this is the stalinist terror. yes, and sailors, seriously feared for their lives. and he is not alone. he, in my opinion, mentioned mondelstam poems in his plays. yes, somehow them there. eh, so to speak, he wrote absolutely. pump realistic plays, but with such a double triple bottom, a could give his texts heroes, so that they read, uh, walking around the crimea, mandelstam's poems yes, at that time already

absolutely forbidden exiled to vladivostok, who died there yes, and the intelligentsia, who understood who mandelstam was reading his poems, and she sitting in the hall. and she was obviously surprised at how cunningly bringov did all this. ekaterina a. i want to return to the conversation about the heroine, olga . could she have gone according to some other scenario. here, yes, what could happen to such a heroine, or, uh, just like this, this could only end, listen, but this is such an image destroyer, and she destroys what we have already said, as other people's lives. well, it is logical that she should destroy herself, that is, it is very difficult to imagine that this is a woman. suddenly he starts making borscht or he goes, uh, to serve some kind of soviet service. uh, she serves in the soviet government. yes, we have

a secret. she has her own secretary. she serves herself. quite to ourselves, as we understand from some book, well, a high post is not able to do anything. at the same time, i don’t know how to do it and i think that in general, we are nothing and we do not. and without even pretending that she is doing something and not trying, she is not trying. well understand that she had to end up like this. how she finished and it seems to me her death with these sweets that give me rest is so paradoxical. yes, because she is funny. she somehow tastes it on one side, like she tastes candy. and at the same time, she is dying in earnest and for sure, she is still in incredible agony, because she is undergoing an operation and it says that she is not given e anesthesia. that is, you imagine this spinal surgery, how painful it is, and she keeps hers. actually. here is the pose to the end. she

plays with death. by the way, there is such a snag, or something, there the hero comes running, eh yes, he hurries to her to save her, and he comes running. and it says that she missed, and here we readers exhale that kay missed, she will not die. yes, it still dies. well, even when she calls, you think it's a joke, right? it's a joke, but it turns out it's not. why is this heroine cute here she takes money, for example will collect 15,000 dollars per night. yes, this merchant philip probably took it and threw them , uh, into the fire, that is. it fascinates me, it seems, any any person of such character. this is not a woman, but just some kind of tornado, but she is not selfish. it's the style, it's the gesture , and they come to the charity lottery and i buy it for her. e, in fact, dokuchaev village, then terskotel vases when approached

them. there is at this fair, yes with these vases, but an absolutely amazing episode when full of hips this woman is a telephone, what does she do with a telephone number? yes, and dokuchaev does not understand at all, does not understand what olga is doing. a explains, yes, remember such and such a number, such and such dokuchaev, please hear me. this lady has the same phone number. she mocks him and develops and also imagine what faith in her feminine strength. it's amazing, i think it's real. well, she's even a dominatrix, that is, she humiliates men so easily. naturally, men are completely subjugated and submissive. in general, the rules that olga dictates to her don’t even care that vladimir got himself a mistress, a pear in every possible way, as it says two two hearts.

what legs? yes, but it seems to me that he is going to this marfush. uh, as ekaterina correctly noted, because olga told him, go to this morfush, as you can not appreciate it. here are her most beautiful full legs, and he, uh, actually does it. just like a puppet, no. yes, and get married. she how wonderful she marries him in this year. they will heat me up. it's good that you offered me to marry something so that, well, what, they will sleep together, then she says, well, no, you're cold, but nothing cold, like hunger also play a very important role in cynics. yes, but yes, and in general in the life of the brings. they had such an episode with yesenin. they decided to write big dramatic poems specifically for everything, the gadfly, the smaller world of the hold. yes, yesenin wrote pugachev and wrote barings, a conspiracy of fights.

yes, but as they wrote, that's it. ah. they have there was a room there was a bathroom, yes, and in the room. so they didn’t try to heat anything, it didn’t work out , it was very cold, then they moved the desk to the bathroom, and locked themselves there, when it all had to be transferred to printed texts. yes, and yes, they asked the typist's acquaintances to come and retype all this, and then they realized. well, there is a lady, yes, she’s also like that in her body, it’s cold, don’t think anything bad , yes, and you warm them up, she will go to bed for 15-20 minutes and warm this bed with her body, so that, uh, they then did not lie down in cold linen. but this girl was already warmed up and walked and printed , lay, warmed their bed and left, and so for several days, and then she disappeared and yesenin

was looking for bringov for a long time in moscow. well, what is it? yes, they communicated normally, they worked normally, they paid money regularly, and after a couple of months they find her and ask. why is she saying? well, i thought you were poets, and you are monks, but they did not offend attention. you asked for rights, and the life of proton to what extent he coincides with his heroes. here it is cynical approach or not, seems to be a very kind person. he is very attentive to the characters and for being so attentive and so. well, let's say so in detail and convincingly show their feelings. he still has to be, well, the merciful need to see e man in another. and he doesn't blame them at all. that is, it gives freedom to people to be what they want to be. it's great. and this is very unusual and the price tags in this sense are like that. well,

roman ekaterina is also unique, but they would agree. you, for example, ikrinize this story or somehow it can be reworked, but you know the most for me in my opinion, the text is important here, and the text is very difficult to put. i don't really understand how to translate it uh hmm yes , it's too literary, how to translate it? eh, well. others do not understand, because the plot itself. well, if you take it, well, here the plot of the love triangle was described a lot and in general, well, it was itself dramatic. yes, there is a columbine to pierrot e, and harlequins. loved this business. yes, of course, well, it just seems to me that, firstly, fools do not it happens. people are smart. in general, all these people, they are all curious, they are all very

bright, bright character and very different, and this, probably, attracts everyone, i think, but i don’t know how to translate this into the language of dramaturgy, the way that roman a is written the most valuable thing for me is the language. well, i agree that the language, amazing, it is unique. it is impossible to repeat and marings, is not like anyone else in poetry or prose, as we understand it, it surprises me that the avgungs wrote, well, dozens of plays of the most different and he had where -that successful, for example, jester balakirev or e. the birth of a poet. yes, and at one time they were staged with great success, the play was a golden hoop, which he wrote together with mikhail kazakov sr., and the father of a famous actor. yes, and a big drama was opening in moscow. theater yes, that is, he, as a playwright, well, he took place.

yes, he had everything in this regard, and after his death, in our time, they make a film, they put on plays, for some reason, the price tag is the most for some reason, uh, the famous one left most likely, the fat trace is so cultural, if e look in time, yes, already, as if, if laid out on a timeline, yes, it turns out that price tags are most often repeated paradoxically , you never know, yes, some work will sound in time, so paradoxically thank you very much for an interesting conversation. this was a must-read podcast. i am the main thing, the batch file is the director of the writer, my guest was the director to write ekaterina dvigayskaya and oleg demidov, literary critic, poet critic. we talked about the novel by anatoly. fra cynic

how can you be judged according to law or according to conscience the german will say according to the law, the russian will answer according to his conscience. hello today, we gathered our thoughts on law and russian legal culture bishop savva of zelenogradsky deputy administrator of the moscow patriarchate candidate of theology specialist in canon law smiles at us andrey alexandrovich cliché head of the federation council committee on constitutional legislation and state building. i uttered all this doctor of historical sciences. hello dear friends. well, the theme is clear. i want to continue here is this one. and it seems to me that such an indicator of legal culture, someone once told me that an italian will say according to the law, but we can agree, but an american will not understand. the question is, in fact. my

first question is to what extent this characterizes the legal culture. and what do you think about this, well, andrey ivanovich don't look at vladyka. let's start with you. parts, probably, characterizes, because in itself the opposition is according to conscience or according to the law, but quite artificial. in general, the law. oh he must reflect people's idea of ​​justice. and if the law somehow deviates from this idea, then, yes, it arises in people. e desire to be judged somehow not according to the law of conscience. yes, yes, you need to deal with your conscience. what is conscience? uh-huh, because, well, and in law they are discussing this, there is conscience, as a purely subjective idea, yes, of a person of justice, and there is as a kind of collective idea of ​​\u200b\u200bwhat is now right and should uh-huh yes, and if our law is approaching this ideal,

let's just say that there is no such opposition arises, and it really looks quite artificial. and if people believe that he is somehow trying to regulate some kind of relationship, then yes, and i probably agree with you that uh, unfortunately, so far we have most people on the question. if here i put it like this, as you put it at the beginning of the program. eh, they will say that you judge me according to my conscience, but look , vladyka, after all, the antinomy of law and grace. yes, it is even in general such a biblical one. yes old testament new testament there word on the law of grace metropolitan illarion. if we are talking about russian culture, maybe this is not such an artificial opposition, as andrei alexandrovich is now saying, do you think the laws of grace and the laws of conscience are , after all, uh, different couples, but i continued andrei alexandrovich’s thought what?

well, look at the law and the bump stop, yes, which prevents us from flying out beyond what is possible if the bump stop is clearly not in place in the middle of the road, but the law uh, in fact, that the church law that the secular law is intended, in theory, to initially do so, so that it is good for society as a whole and for each person individually , so that people's lives are for the better, if the law prevents this or leads somewhere in the other direction, then it means that he does not quite fulfill his functions. uh, but what's more, if it's famous. eh, the patristic saying of the monk isaac syria is very clearly expressed almost the same, well, almost the same a little differently, but nevertheless also sanctify or chrysostom that if the lord judges us, uh, in justice, yes, justice then with us nothing good will come of it. therefore, we are talking about the fact that everything happens to a person in truth. yes, in fact , initially our law in russia was called the truth. yes, and this is true. let's

talk about this some more. i just want to ask you, how does a person who grew up in french culture, but a frenchman how to answer? i won't answer. i still lived there, i already live in russia for most of my life, i don’t remember how i left the answer. ok then. let's continue. here is a famous story. fedor nikiforovich spitter famous russian lawyer a lawyer who, by the way, was famous for his long, rather lengthy lawyer speeches and one of his most famous speeches was extremely brief. the priest was tried. the priest was at fault. the jury come out spitter and says lord juror. yes, the priest or to blame. he himself admits it. i want to tell you, only one thing in front of you is a person who for many years in confession forgave you your many sins. i ask that you forgive him one sin today, one sin, in my opinion, unanimously, or whatever it is considered, he was

acquitted. vladyka it's like is it right or not? man is called to forgive. yes, when we count the lord's prayer, i say that forgive us just as we forgive the sins of others. well, these are not legal categories. this is legal us. actually forgiveness. eh, this category is divine. excuse me, this means, but in fact, to say that we do not consider this in his past. as part of his life. although part of life was the forgiveness of conscience laws - this is all from a different category of forgiveness you can absolutely, that is, by jury. he was found not guilty. hmm, he was found not guilty or exonerated. as far as i remember this thing, how accurate was the question. i will come next time i say. yes, i will say this, if we talk about some such specific examples, then i am afraid that we will not have such an interesting meaningful conversation, because every time we will have to go deeper, there is matter. i want

to tell you what you need. e, if we talk about a specific example, always analyze two things, if it is a crime yes and volume active subjective side subjective side is different. yes, this intention is imprudent. and then there is such a thing as the degree of public danger. yes, in this case, if i don't know the details there. i know it's a joke, but yes, well-known things, but i believe that the jury proceeded from what is the public danger yes of what he committed and whether this person can commit such a crime again, and therefore, yes, he was more likely to be released from responsibility. although in general the jury assumes guilty not guilty. exactly. yes, look, here, we actually wanted to. i wanted us to talk about legal culture, yes, and so usually when this anecdote is remembered historically, yes or an example, and this one remembers him, as an example that characterizes russian legal culture. here. let's define a little theory what a legal culture is. i, by analogy in practice, if this is not the case with the political culture of a political scientist

, i will say from the fact that there is a set of values ​​of representations, yes, which influences, let's say, as a political culture into a political and a political institution, and therefore in different political cultures the same political institutions will work in different ways. yes, the american french parliament, the united kingdom there, any other country that calls itself democratic , so the political processes will go differently. even if formally everything is very similar, because different political cultures have different value systems, legal culture. as i understand it, the category is similar. yes, this is a system of representations, yes relation to the law in society. yes, then i have a question. here is the political culture, we are not talking yet, what is the general degree of its influence on legal institutions and processes, how great is huge, huge, because the law, of course, is such a kind of material expression. yes , the state's idea of ​​how to regulate some kind of relationship that arises between

people, but the problem is that these laws are a kind of product. yes , if you compare how much this or that product corresponds to your ideal idea of ​​it you will always have a huge gap a huge distance. and that's the size of this distance, and he allows you to make. this is the opposition according to the law or according to conscience. yes, in some ideal model , the law just reflects the idea of ​​justice that exists here and now. well, let's say. at the same time, that after all this is a representation of justice, it is changing in society, too, and the idea of ​​​​justice that was there on this 100,200 or there 500 years ago differs from that that people are considered fair today. yes it is there, uh, god has no volatility. yes, but for people in our kind of world and in society

in the state, these ideas change and therefore the law also constantly changes, but in a certain sense. always catches up creating this gap. this is one reason. why can you always say that either by law or by justice, and the second and this is probably for me uh-huh as a practicing lawyer and a parliamentarian. this is very important. mostly injustice arises as a result of the right application. yes so when people say judge me according to your conscience. yes, you apply the law to me in good conscience, yes, in the way you need to apply it more. there is such an expression there of all the factors, yes, again, of everything that we have said, yes, there are all the circumstances. yes, you apply the law. you will apply it as it should be applied to me. yes, vladyka's phrase may be helpful. uh, who is the author? i met her in several sources that

the use of speech for other purposes is a sin. yes, that's the wrong application of the law, but not in the sense there is a sin. yes, a and so people are worried. this is when, in general, it seems to be formal, well, good rules that are developed taking into account these ideas about justice begin to be used against people against the interests of people, and then people say this no, well, in conscience it should be different, yes, and this is the gap between law and enforcement. he unfortunately, always exists in the state and there are mechanisms that are aimed at ensuring that the mechanism. let's talk. that's all the same russian legal culture. vladyka as in general, russian culture in general. it took shape under the influence of orthodoxy enormously unconditionally. here is how russian legal culture and orthodoxy influenced it, how it relates, i will give. this is a phrase that has been repeatedly heard in the meetings of the high

society of the church court, in which i work as the head of staff. this is the court of appeal. us it can be a trial court. mostly. this is the court of appeal for lighting. who do not agree with the decisions of the diocesan courts, and now such a priest comes for various reasons, found guilty and sentenced to a certain ecclesiastical punishment , as a rule, deprivation of dignity. i have seen many times how judges and gray-haired hierarchs already wiser listen and listen and say, well, yes, of course, he is a scoundrel there. yes , he also did something there, but he needs help. it is necessary to preserve it, for the church, for god, maybe such an approach is possible for serving in secular courts, we generally capture it. here it wait. in general, we initially lay down freedom for the judge, the discretion of the judiciary. yes, that is, the judge still applies the law, based on his own inner conviction. this is the intention precisely in that, well, i again return to how it is perceived in the church of intention precisely in

helping a person, in fact. there is such a theory. e in ecclesiastical law, that ecclesiastical punishment. yes there app. san's deprivation is not a punishment. this is the cure. this is true, because the metaphor of the meditative component is also found in church punishments, but in general, we are talking about helping a person in situations where judges, well, they chopped hard, there, for example, when a priest left his family there, he went to another woman in other situations, in which case it rarely happens. i just, uh, still wanted to look for church canon law hmm a little later, and that's it about the influence of the context, but the religious philosophical cultural right. well, let's say in law textbooks. we will read that the russian legal culture is concentric, from which, perhaps, we can conclude that not any right-wing culture of these is concentric. here we once andrei alexandrovich talked. here's to me explained about there continental rights. and that in similar situations, let's say continental law makes such a decision. likely to be

accepted. yes, this is also about the origins in legal culture. well, it's so simple and the idea of ​​justice is different. yes, but this is not necessarily connected with exclusively religious issues, there with some peculiarity of development. here we mentioned the trial by jury. yes, because the jury itself. he we have a jury trial. yes, i do not want to criticize this institute. however, if you look at history development, then after all the jury is not aimed. on the search for truth, yes it is an adversarial process and in this adversarial process, pay attention to the word wins. yes, it is in the process that the one who best presented his position of evidence wins, the witness brought in and so on in a sense, what was there, in fact, is a feature of the adversarial process. pay attention there is often no one interested. what is the truth in the case? who's to blame? really not

guilty. how then does the law relate justice, apparently there is a notion that the one who is right, yes , he has the best opportunity to prove this dubious position in an adversarial process. yes some in the sense of who won, he is kind. it just reminds me, it's scandinavian teag. yes, when it was decided on swords who the judicial fights were in russia if both sides could not provide. arguments in their rightness that matter was decided by a duel, this is god's judgment . that's all. can i. by the way, do you think can this be? it seems that the one who is stronger wins, but let's say, the biblical story tells us that david defeated goliath because god's truth was on his side. one can consider these court fights as an attempt to present everything to god's judgment. the source of this practice, of course, is precisely in the perception that the lord can decide. yes, the lord can point

with his finger to the one who is right from the one who is wrong, and certainly the examples of david goliath is one of such textbooks biblical examples for this, although the church treated differently. yes, i would say, so that for this you still need, uh, to have such faith, which i think not all participants in these uh fights possessed or not all those present possessed. but nevertheless such practice was, yes. for further service, a dispatch to the front arrived . seryozha is changing. i have a task of importance and secrecy. the supreme high command set the task for apper to misinform the russians about our plans . playing our own game is very interesting for us, and russian intelligence should be interested. they came to tallinn their man. our task is to find him and

capture captain paul krieger leave after being wounded, where you can rent a room at night in case of failure, you are not just waiting for both 10 -minute people who could take over this matter. see off to eat russians such a clever proverb is not stupid legendary film about soviet intelligence. how can you be judged by law or by conscience? today we gathered our thoughts about the law and patriotic legal culture bishop sava candidate of theology andrey aleksandrovich cliches, doctor of law continue.

well, anyway, here we somehow left the topic. i would like to clarify these concentricity, and our legal any legal system. this is in any of these concentricity is in any general characteristic of legal culture, as such, yes, any. yes, absolutely right. i think so, because there is no other, uh, legitimization of these norms. you can't come up with. well, you can, of course, transfer this is on god yes, and to say that god wants it that way. well, in general, people would always like their ideas of justice to be, there illuminated by some kind of divine laws, rules, if it concerns society. yes, i do not take it, there are some questions of the universe. yes, that is, if it concerns people's lives, then this is still a representation of people. divided time about that it is clear that there is justice, but look at the same time sometimes they say that legal nihilism is also quite such an inherent russian steam culture, characteristics, again,

returning this is the contenomy of the law and conscience, yes, the law, there is mercy let's say or legitimate justice, and often, linking this as well. well, how is the law what happened? yes? there is this people. it just won't say so. here, we can say that another idea of ​​the law, that deyshlo and legal are indivisible, and so on. what does it mean? is this an artist question? this is a question of injustice or, uh, the formalism of the performer is conditional. uh, well, we seem to have agreed to bring specific examples, but anyway less. see one of my favorite topics now in quotation marks about migrants. or rather, not about migrants, the repatriation of russian people abroad, according to the regulations. i assume that if the documents are poorly filled. they can be sent back and the person will go a second time a third time, but this is not good. that is, it is not in good conscience, that is, the official who accepts the document, you can say, here, correct me, i will immediately accept you, although according to the regulations. he doesn't have to. this is, well, this is a very primitive basic example. it's even a question

illegal, but administrative regulations, but nevertheless it is a matter of approach, how this or that person will react to the law, that the drawbar says that someone acted, it ’s more likely that someone acted not according to the law, the way he convenient. well, that is, that these personal characteristics manipulate the law of their interests, without regard for justice. yes, yes, yes, well, what was said about what. that's all, that's good, but russian legal culture is not peculiar to the right or close to you nihilism is characteristic of any culture on any present. yes, none some stages as liked accompanies. i don't want to get into this issue. this is generally, as if in unison, this part is being performed today, but look. i read on the right. the idea that the existing legal nihilism in russian legal culture is largely connected with the era of peter the great and with the fact that those innovations brought our earth, they were perceived as

western and alien, as this thought is called andrey, which means i don’t even see any new institutions that peter would bring to russia , there are legal institutions and approaches to he touched on such fundamental things. yes , as the cathedral documents of the times of ivan the terrible acted in russia and peter they acted. to be honest, i rather see that there was a cultural problem. yes, with peter the shock of some foundations related to people's lives, here we practically have one russia that has servants in terms of culture, life and so on. well, to say that peter somehow shook the legal culture. i didn't say, well, secular , of course not. well, of course, the church among the church among it, of course, is very strong shake, and the institutions of the church-yes. yes , these changes, of course, were not

accepted by many. but this is the same question. not uh about the un nihilism. it is not a matter of a that a person does not accept rights. as such it is a question that he does not take specifically. here are the laws, these changes were made, and peter the first or there, then they don’t like some kind of law and i’ll definitely tell you about it later, but for but this does not mean that i believe that the law should not exist. i just don't like specific legislation. eh, i think that in principle, this topic is not delizma. it is not connected, there is a situation with a particular era or a historical person in general, periodically there is a situation where the legislator, in particular, there we are. we are lagging behind in some direction from how social relations are developing, right? or this or that branch develops and so on at people who are occupied with it. they get the impression that i'm pulling the norms that you are there