he entered the history of our culture of our cinema as one of the most outstanding diverse actors.

dear friends dear viewers. today's concert took place thanks to the great talent and courage of one of the best opera singers in the world. vskoy wrote one very special song for today's concert. it seems to me that the most

important song is tamara, i ask you not to go anywhere. this is for you. next to me the sun and hallelujah the sun

do you remember when i saw you for the first time, i thought that i was finished, now i understand this is just the beginning of our story. i don't want it to end. i, too, for two, meets us here.

my i embrace the sun to play.

the sun is on yours a special edition of the big game is on the air today we have a conversation with the deputy minister

of foreign affairs of russia alexander viktorovich grudko. we are very glad to see you. thanks for taking the time. thank you and have had a busy week. and if you can, so the former colleagues, now opponents from nato, arranged the twissies themselves. and, of course, not so easy to understand. what does this self mean with one side? many say that, in general , most important things for zelensky turned out to be inaccessible to him, and first of all this invitation to nato. others say, let 's see what they promised him. let's see to what extent nato is clearly, well, if you want, aimed at a confrontation with russia but that's all, more from china and that

president biden shows that he is ready for a long-term confrontation, true of course , he cannot be sure that she put power, and after e two beginning of the twenty-fifth year, but at least, that's the mood that looks quite disturbing your church. thank you well , as stirlitz said, the last one is remembered, so i will start, perhaps, from the end of your question, because in my opinion. this is the most important thing that happened, of course. for us and for the professionals who watched this action called the nato summit , there were no surprises. and if they asked me, or those professionals who are involved in the media. what will be the results, and we would have predicted them with confidence. ah. on

my point is, in terms of the long-term implications that you've been asking about, then, er, there's probably every reason to say that nato has taken the evolutionary somersault to the end and has essentially returned to the security schemes of 49 years of the cold war. the fulton speech, outlined only then , was used as ideologism . the justification for the very creation of the existence of nato is the fight against communism; today we have a different ideology - these are democratic countries fighting world autocracy. they guard. ah, the golden billion. what orlovsky was talking about, and mr. barrell, who has already written his name in history with a historical phrase, a and this is a long-term trend, because

military development plans are being built under this ideologeme, which are aimed at ensuring, and by achieving military superiority, the hegemony of the united states and their satellites will not be allowed to take place in a multipolar world. ah, by declaring almost all regions of the world as zones of vital interests of nato countries, they also talked about the arctic about the north africa i'm not talking about the western balkans, but the asia-pacific region was announced on tuesday the events directly affecting the state of euro-atlantic security. and thus, in fact , they once again laid the foundation for nato's claims to some kind of role, er, in this region as well through the development of the so-called these ocean initiatives. you are right of the region participated yourself. yes, representatives

of this region participated in nato, but we know that the united states is putting together such alliances, such as the opious quad, but we see that nato is getting there, or rather, the americans are pushing the allies towards this strategic one. sensor, which is by far absolutely clear. this is the containment of china, that is, depriving china of opportunities for internal development of the right to develop resources for development, including through the application of military pressure projection and force. uh, that's what they're doing about russia. so from that point of view. and tasks. e. alliance were defined very clearly, at least for us. and the first is to contain russia, the second task is to contain china, and finally. i would say that a, perhaps, vilnius, ah, rolled up the asphalt, the last hopes of the europeans for autonomy have been the complete subordination of the european

union and the military-political area to the tasks that are formulated in another part of brussels in nato and this is reflected, by the way, in the declaration following the results themselves this is where it says that eu efforts are complementary. or they should not be duplicated in that sphere of military security. well, in general, it is clear that washington and nato brussels will dictate. well, since it was affected. ah, the expansion problem. it's perfect obviously extension is one of the tools. maintaining a-a strange nato confrontation, because uh, unfortunately, the history of uh, us. e, made me conclude that nato cannot exist without opponents, then it loses all meaning, and in this regard, i would like to recall the reports that becker wrote, and

george bush bush and where it was said, it was directly declassified recently, that the main threat to nato is yes. yes, this is obse, this is obse. a and a, it is also known that bush had a conversation with helmt kohl kassler of the frg, where he said, that if i admit that there is no cold war in europe, then the question immediately arises. what are american troops doing here? therefore, we saw that in order to a-a bring nato back into the political arena, and it did not exist in the eighties and nineties, because it forged military security in europe in completely different places. i will not list all the arms control treaties that were agreed at that time, which really should have formed the material basis security. a europe a. to do this, it was necessary to launch, in order to prevent this, in

order to prolong the existence of nato, to prove its relevance was launched, and the process of expanding the alliance, in fact. this is a search for an enemy, creating a vulnerability for yourself, because if only it had remained on the lines that were promised. and mikhail sergeevich gorbachev is the only one against whom to defend against the czech republic, slovakia, poland, and so on. there was such an organization as the western european union, which sank into what and, in my opinion, no one i didn’t even pay attention, but nevertheless, the expansion is used as , ah, firstly, for military-political purposes, for ah , the creation of additional fronts of pressure, and this summit, apparently, will go down in history, again, as is widely accepted in the composition alliance in finland ah, sweden on the way - it's more of a matter of time. and as for ukraine, nato continues to play this

game, and in one way or another it reverses the bucharest formula. and yes , some such steps were taken, and steps that indicate that supposedly the alliance ready, but to accept ukraine in its ranks, and it was decided to withdraw, and the plan for action for a member, as an integral and key stage on the path to membership, but for something, too, it’s like no sensation, because, uh, although earlier it was decided that all candidates should go through the phrase, but in the case of finland, sweden, this was removed for what , in order to carry out this geopolitical throw to the north at a time when society does not understand what the consequences are can it lead and here these democratic procedures, which involve a broad public debate holding a referendum. they were simply

abandoned in order to achieve these geopolitical goals. ah, if someone thought that ukraine would be invited to the alliance and that a clear plan would be written, then this was a profound delusion. and by the way, few people pay attention to the fact that all the ministers with such a firm face said that ukraine would be admitted to nato only when the conditions were met, no one says what these conditions are, but we -that we know. what are these conditions the first conditions states. this is an official document that any expansion should strengthen the security of the alliance, it is clear that if ukraine is admitted to nato, this will lead to catastrophic consequences for european security or for ukraine and for the alliance itself. therefore, i think that they will continue to keep this carrot and european prospects. nato perspective

is a process management tool. kiev , including on the battlefield, and including with regard to construction. society and. certainly, i can't help noticing this today, huh? nato considers itself the most democratic club and states in the world and i remember very well how andersokrasmus, the former secretary general of nato, speaking at the brussels forum. it was somewhere around 2014 that he described nato's advantage over other, rather military blocs, as follows. he said nato is the source of political legitimacy. why because it unites democratic states, and democratic states are by definition for all good against all bad, and the second is that hmm nato is capable of, and generate in any conditions, a superior military force.

this means that those who do not agree. this source of legitimacy will be dealt with by superior forces, of course, we put such questions aside. and what do people think about this in libya, syria, iraq , yugoslavia, because we know that history is not a history of defense, but article five was used only once, and after september 11, when it was adopted the decision to transfer part of the alaxes to the territory of the united states is all a history of wars of interventions that are contrary to international law, which were committed in violation of international law and led to colossal consequences. so speaking to ukraine, the truth is that this club is democratic. the state continues to sponsor the nazi, in fact , a terrorist regime whose official goal is to clean up everything russian on the territory of ukraine to deprive ukrainians of their national historical cultural roots,

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for many years, russia strongly objected to the entry of ukraine into nato well, in general, like other states sharing common borders with russia i think that russia did it not because russia was going to invade these countries. uh, for decades i have not seen such intentions from the russian side, and until the fourteenth year before the coup d'etat in ukraine, i did not see any signs that russia was seriously considering any offensive actions against these countries. it seemed to me that russia was so against nato expansion because it could lead to the appearance of nato military infrastructure on the territory of foreign countries, uh, this could lead to more joint military

exercises, that some kind of standardization of the army of these countries and arminates? why am i saying, but in addition to the fact that all these things have already begun to happen, kesanjera recently said that those moments that most threatened russia and worried the traditional russian leadership are all already happening, and ukraine is not promised article 5 of nato collective defense , but if russia is not going to invade ukraine after the conclusion of peace after the conclusion of peace and after all relevant agreements. you're in general, maybe i'm wrong, it seems it is russia that does not help much and what worries me the most, and biden's proposal to use the israeli model for ukraine , that is, in other words, to provide ukraine

with such military superiority in the region. yes, read the military superiority over russia that israel has in relation to the arab countries. this is such an attempt to turn ukraine into an anti-russian armed to the teeth, which can constantly count on nato support. it seems to me that this is generally dangerous. well, let me remind you that, uh, we actually characterized. bucharest decision summit in 2008 as a catastrophe for european security, i will not quote the speech. ah, the president of the speech of our minister. by the way, the last time he made this powerful warning, and in december

of the twenty-first year at the smith boyce, which passed through stockholm, but we always said that this was a mine. the very structure of european security, and if this decision is not reconsidered, it will explode sooner or later. and if the legitimate concern of the russian federation is not taken into account, then it will be too late asking us why we acted in the interests of our national security in this or that way, and therefore returning to your question, the fundamental question. for us, this is absolutely unacceptable, and all these years we have been trying to resolve this issue by forming an architecture that would rule out nato expansion altogether. and our last proposal, which i was instructed to voice in brussels

last december. they just envisaged the termination of nato movement in the east, which were rejected by the proposal, which were rejected. unfortunately and short-sighted. a the return of the infrastructure of the alliance what did you talk about to those borders over which to those borders on which they found in the ninety-seventh year at the time of signing the fundamental act, which in many ways was a question not only but for nato membership it was a question and military infrastructure and all those things that are associated with a nato member that can be given to ukraine without this membership. so is military infrastructure. and a. k: unfortunately, it was rejected. although all these suggestions. together they created a reliable security system that

took into account the interests of all its participants. and most importantly, it also guaranteed the security of ukraine itself. well, it’s strange, like the baltic countries, poland, which today, ah , how they live here, and pursue a policy, as state-front-line states, you understand, what is the interest in being a front-line state and to be in the line of fire, you are of logic , there’s somehow fire here and think that the more, the more foreign troops will be on your territory, the less the threat will be and the more russian missiles will be directed at you in response. well, it’s understandable, because, for example, if we look at what happened in the baltic states, which, thanks to or as a result of nato’s policy and its calm region in europe, there were no territorial disputes, nothing. we

had problems related to humanitarian savagery, as it is now customary to say this, but an attack on the positions of the russian language. and in the fucking baltics, the phenomenon of statelessness, but there was no military dimension at all. in these were mainly cooperation programs. ah. protection of the biodiversity of the baltic sea, and visa-free cruises and so on and so forth, and the baltic council northern dimensions, there was a huge amount, but suddenly yes. and these countries did not have the armed forces, but in terms of feeling safe. there was nothing that could justify russia not deploying its forces in any significant number in this region there, if you look, uh, how would that be the evolution of dynamics development, but military potentials, we only removed neutral countries from the north of finland, sweden. and there is nothing around the baltics. they are

absolutely irrelevant from a military point of view. that is , we did not consider them as bridgeheads, but from which there could be a passage. the force is calculated there or some kind of shock systems are placed. all coniferousness interfered with their own safety. and then they joined nato , everyone began to look at the maps, and i worked, brussels was there, indeed , there were tantrums about suvorovsky corridor. what if, if there is some kind of conflict between russia and nato, this is in lithuania , yes, this is a corridor. this is the border between e, poland, lithuania, e, here is kaliningrad to belarus, and they both argue that in the event of some incident, if there is an escalation, then russia will hit the most vulnerable spot, the most vulnerable spot - this is the suwalki corridor. will block and isolate the baltic countries. everything is lost. well, smart people back then in 2003-2002 said that from the point of view of military security, the admission

of the baltic countries to nato is crazy, because this generally weakens the security of the alliance itself and for these countries. this is crazy for these countries. this is impossible to explain, and after that it went and went. at first they deployed four aircraft to patrol the airspace. we asked why are you doing this? they say, well, why not , they just don't have it. we have our own aviation, and every piece of the nato sky should be reachable within a few minutes, we said then, that is, you don’t care what happens in the baltic region, what kind of security conditions there are for you and the regulations. necessary more importantly, then 12 aircraft, then warehouses , then infrastructure development, then, uh, combat tactical groups, and now, uh , we are talking about replacing these battalion groups with brigades. that is, three brigades only in the territory of the baltic states and e. in poland, this is a radical change, in general, the whole situation in

this region, which will require us to take appropriate military-technical measures, we will strengthen. and it's good that we have the full range of weapons that will ensure our security - this will be an asymmetric response. but that, uh, the military will decide. how do we properly allocate our resources. well, even now, finland joined nato it seemed from its heritage, the greatest, as a neutral side from that of authority, and which helsinki has always possessed as the main promoter of these plans for creating a pan-european architecture, the helsinki final act of the helsinki process. everyone is talking about the 50th anniversary of the kessky final act. we will also cancel note. helsinki will start this process somehow. and now apparently, ah, the ideal of the finnish security will consist in the fact that on the borders of e with finland will be placed. well, here is

the karelian corps. well, explain how it happened. uh, after all, the leaders of these countries, the politicians of these countries, they are not just dangerous madmen, why did they go down this path when they were not threatened by anything, they were forced out of who she was, it was their internal policy. something third they were forced from washington. these were american plans. obviously. again, i want to say. i want to say that nato is like a fish thrown out of the water when there is no confrontation, therefore, it is a search for confrontation, a search for vulnerability, and endlessly this talk about what needs to be defended. well, i didn't follow the summit very much on tv, but i want to say that i was amazed that some of the leaders didn't say, i think they were from the baltic states, who were so businesslike, as it goes without saying, knowingly, talking about , well, we put everything here at home, but in order to prevent russia from committing

the next act of aggression, that is, they proceed from the fact that this is how the day changes at night and vice versa, here, as it were, it is already programmed, therefore and i, unfortunately, cannot see anything rational in this, because from the point of view of their national interests. this is a catastrophe for them, especially when the alliance declares russia directly. threats and we proceed from the fact that the alliance is natural for us. it poses an immediate and direct threat from which we must defend ourselves, and this is the result of a man-made geopolitical process of nato expansion in order to keep this organization in as a tool serving the interests of washington, it is clear that through the nato expansion processor a-a. the usa got the most faithful allies in europe these are the baltic countries. it is poland that has now joined them,

romania, but also the uk as usual, especially since it left the european union, of course, and uh, if you ask ask me. what one word can describe the results of the vilnius summit for the european union or for the europeans, this is the vasilization of europe what do many political scientists write about? i realized that you didn't look much on tv what happened at the summit i have to admit, and i myself was not very pleased because it was like to say, uh, it was not the form of entertainment that i usually want to subject myself to. well, that's what impressed me. this is the boorish behavior of zelensky, who first said on twitter that ukraine is not immediately inviting nato, that this is

unprecedented and absurd, and then he had some kind of verbal brawl with the minister. e defense of the uk ben's voice, which, perhaps, the biggest supporter, the biggest supporter of ukraine, let's see what happened between volosko and zelensky, we have always been grateful and we always thank not just. how else are we supposed to give thanks? let him write. i need to thank you, and i will thank you. so we were completely grateful. we can wake up in the morning and immediately begin to thank the minister. personally, i really don't understand what the question is. we are grateful to britain and not our partners. we have a very close relationship of our intelligence in excellent terms and our ministry, here is our minister of defense alexei, you have a bad relationship with the minister of defense, wonderful. well, to thank him, mr. secretary of defense of great britain, i am very grateful to you for 100 rubles. including

wonderful and call him. yes, i will, please, today. well, this is such a strange scene. eh, i want to ask you. in general, probably, the behavior of zelensky's vassal is the exact salom, who bites the hand more and more, giving the hand of his masters. she would usually have caused not just irritation, but also some kind of reflection. that whether this is a person, whether this is the regime that needs to be blindly supported like that, do you think you will have any such reflections within nato or will they continue to write out chaki as zelensky, firstly. i think that now everything suits nato because there are no obligations, and ukraine is used as a consumable material in this geopolitical confrontation, and against russia, the united states

is being released into the line of this confrontation by europe, which spends gigantic money, which throws its material weapons there, which is burning there and in the american military-industrial complex is already preparing for gigantic orders that will come from europe at this time, the united states can but focus on its main threat to contain china, everything, as if they were so sorry , but the ukrainian people, who ended up as a result of these geopolitical games in meat grinder, but i want to tell you that this is a two-way process, because all these years ukraine ukraine has been seeking external management of external management. she sought and she achieved and and of course it was done, and there was a strategic miscalculation european union.

the european union urged the united states on him, because he put ukraine before an artificial choice between russia and europe. this is all that preceded the maidan manda, so that ukraine would make the right choice from the point of view of the europeans, ukraine made anti-russia anti-russia. a monstrous upheaval happened, what happened, but then it turned out that the european union found itself in a position of choice between russia and ukraine, and as usual. he made the wrong choice. actually, when europe in modern times did the right elections on yugoslav affairs in kosovo levia series, arab spring. i can continue. by the way, everyone is discussing today. e. issues related to losses, but according to the statistics of the international organization for migration

since 2014, 30,000 migrants have drowned in the mediterranean sea. these are the consequences of these nato operations that have devastated the devastated states of a gigantic territory , and without any state control, a refuge for terrorist experiments and so on and the same is happening today, and on the territory of ukraine, therefore, you are right that what is happening is that zelensky demands more than he can be given and demanded, and in such expressions and forms that are simply unacceptable for the sponsors themselves, but the sponsors themselves created this situation. and this is not the first time, by the way, this story is repeated every time and, of course, according to this logic, if this is how

zelensky behaves. uh, a serious leader of a serious sovereign state, then this , of course, drops his prestige and if this is not a serious leader and if he is a serf, or more precisely, if he has a tantrum the owners, no matter how pleased they are, are ready to forgive him. so well, i'm not ready to discuss strong things, of course, when there i looked at many things and thought that it was impossible to comment, because in order to comment, you have to wear a white coat, this is what other people should do, because it goes beyond rational and beyond the concept of rational. behavior and states, that's what is happening now there is nothing rational there, uh, the geopolitical task is to contain nato, uh, autocracies of democracy and, uh, ukrainian tvd. on

in which russia's nato relations are developing by destroying nato technology. this is what our partners have come to regarding ukraine's accession to nato. i want to say that this problem will be solved either by military or political means, and you know that one of the tasks. e our e, special military operation. this is the demoretarization of ukraine and the preservation of its neutral status. thank you very much. it was an interesting conversation. let's say. so not very joyful, but uh optimistic uh, in the sense, uh that anyway somehow the task is special operations will be carried out and that it will not be possible to use e ukraine as constantly looming

over russia this is from absolutely no doubt about it, there is no doubt that we will move consistently. and if, starting again with your first question, what conclusions do we draw, and based on the results, i myself can say this very briefly. the first is to complete the task. what is the second to strengthen the army fleet? a-a the aerospace forces of the russian federation further strengthen integration associations and allied organizations in which russia participates further strengthen ties with the world majority with all those who today do not succumb to dictate and are ready to work with us on the basis of national interests. in any case , a multipolar world has already taken place and no matter what nato does, they will not succeed. this is something that you won't be able to turn back. thank you time and glass quickly,

because the conversation was so interesting and involved. we hope to see you again soon on our air. thank you. resigned to love no one legendary film about soviet intelligence.

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cluster bombs are in a race with time. this war crime shows that the outline of us is failing. and as for then supervised all these issues. the person who says tactical nuclear weapons is not a problem. the horror is that sullivan actually believes it himself. so they intend to deploy cores. i need a war. dangerous heir doll security advisor, tutti on monday on the first and always on one tv dot ru on the air big

game we will now talk with dmitry vitalyevich, a training professor at the higher school of economics from a man whose ideas are being seriously discussed among the russian elite today and attracting a lot of attention in new york washington and this is not only because you have a great reputation. e great authority. a. well, in addition, such very serious topics and topics are being raised, to put it bluntly, to some extent, but if not terrible, then this topic is certainly very disturbing at this time, in fact, you are talking about it. uh, neither more nor less and correct me interrupt me if i

i'm misrepresenting your point of view. you say nothing less than that there is one big problem in relations between russia and the collective west, that , unlike the cold war, the fear factor has disappeared, that the fact that russia is a great nuclear power, that this is in the collective west, washington does not want to see in london take into account and argue that nuclear weapons, that in general they have outlived not only military, but also political usefulness. and that it is possible to treat russia as if it did not have its own arsenal, this, unfortunately, is so indeed, since the last time western society and western elites were seriously worried about the nuclear weapons

of a nuclear conflict with moscow . it was 40 years ago the war is certainly remembered, this is the eighty-third year of the euro missile crisis, a kind of cosplay of the caribbean crisis of the sixty-second year, well, ever since. a lot of water has flowed under the bridge, a lot has changed in the brains of people, and indeed, if then nuclear weapons in the hands of moscow were perceived as the quality of a very serious argument that held back. uh, the ambitions of the united states of america, first of all, now these ambitions are practically not restrained by anything.

and uh, the balance that, strictly speaking, gave us universal peace during the four decades of the cold war , there is no balance today, it is not in the minds, first of all of those who direct the foreign policy of the collective west. these people are on the other side of the ocean. and today the american establishment has set a task. it was announced by the minister of defense lloyd austin inflict a strategic defeat on russia. and who is dmitry strategic defeat from the american point of view from the american point of view. this is probably a recognition of the complete failure of the special military operation, the withdrawal of russian troops from the territory occupied by ukraine as of 1991

. it's paying reparations to ukraine, and it 's bringing to justice those responsible for war crimes, as the united states says in ukraine. well, it's probably not an exhaustive list, but here are the highlights. now, if russia recognized such an expression. what consequences would you have for russian international security and for russian domestic political stability. well, i think that the answer to this question can be summed up in one word: existential consequences, that is, russia if these four basic requirements are met. west, it would cease to exist, as a state in the form in which it exists today, we are talking exclusively about the top of the russian leadership, we are talking about

political regime, we are talking about the russian state of russian statehood and in fact. that would mean in my opinion. the transfer of the conflict already to the territory of russia, if in the previous phase russians and ukrainians or russians and ukrainians fought directly on the battlefield, then in the next stage, the russians would fight each other, but the only thing for the west would be necessary. uh, it would be necessary to complete the task of bringing her under the control of the nuclear weapons of the russian federation because this is actually another not officially nominated, but implied uh element of russia's strategic capitulation you're talking about very dramatic things. and you say that the absence

of fear makes such a situation possible, i agree with you, but this raises a question. and what can be done about this? i remember a conversation about 10 years ago at the center of national interest, where i worked at the time, and uh, we had a very good conversation with one of the european ministers, who kind of explained. what russia is bad and how it should be taught a lesson and a few people in our group clearly expressed their doubts. where such an approach can lead, but sitting next to me. uh, the man said pay attention. those people who do all this, they say they are older than you and me. since then, it has been 10, that

is, if you walk around washington to washington well, you know the washington brain tests. you know well, then, in general, you would have discovered. that people who have this way can automatically easily revive concerns about the russian federal arsenal, there are not many such people, especially there are few such people in their corridors power to propose to do in practice. well, let's uh, let's see what is already being done at the very beginning of the special military operation. president putin publicly warned the united states and its allies against intervening directly in the ukraine crisis, he said, i don't remember the exact quote, but the point was that if you do, you will face

consequences you can't even imagine . you can not. since then there have been several uh verbal interventions by the president from uh senior officials persons of russia on behalf of the president, who directly pointed out that russia is a nuclear power. she has opportunities. she has. uh, readiness of determination and so on. since then, one step has been taken in practice, this is the deployment of russian nuclear weapons, not strategic nuclear weapons on the territory of belarus, this is the only step, but in general this has not yet had a serious impact on the mood in washington, you are absolutely right and we are talking not only about think tanks, but unfortunately the white house staff also received advice

national security and about those who sit across the river already. it did not happen within the walls of the pentagon, uh, because uh, the idea, as i see it, is inflicting a strategic defeat on russia. uh, hmm, it's based on the fact that, uh, russia won't use nuclear weapons. e, if, er, well. the concessions that will be demanded of her will not lead to destruction. here are the states. at least, they will not immediately lead to the destruction of the state. that is, they can and most likely will, but not immediately. so. yes, this is true, and that is why i inserted this word. yes, that is, these will already be consequences for which the americans cannot bear responsibility. it is you yourself that you have begun to begin. e!