i thank you father. i really need your wise advice, and i'll be honored if you become my clerk. being a don is in my blood. and you don’t have it, but you will understand, this is later. now no one will bother me.

i need to drive home for a while. that's all the muddler run, let's go well to the sea, you always laughed and teased me with a femme fatale heartbreaker. well, what did you do? now it really bothers me, it really bothers us all.

stop playing hide and seek. i know that you are here. on the air is a special edition of the big game we let's talk today about what is happening on the battlefields in ukraine about the big events in russian foreign policy and the interesting and important visit of the former secretary of state. henry kissinger. beijing, but

let's start from the beginning, perhaps the most important thing. yesterday and the day before yesterday, russia delivered serious effective strikes on ukrainian ports , infrastructure depots and places where drones, both air and sea based, are produced. and it was not an easy decision, but nonetheless. this decision became necessary due to the constant ukrainian attacks not only to the crimea, not only to the crimean bridge , but more and more to russian territories, even moscow, but it so happened that this decision coincided with the time. the completion of russia's participation in the grain deal and in response to this russian decision were, i will say, simply brazen statements

from kiev later. well, let er, russia wants to get out of one deal. let it come out. we will agree, he is from turkey and we will do without russia and we will do everything as we need in spite of russia, but russian strikes. they gave a very clear answer to the fact that this kind of methods with russia will not work, that russia will not allow this kind of disregard for its interests. russia came to this decision not easily, president putin just spoke, but very serious. i would even say russia's outstanding patience let's hear it. we extended this deal again and again, prolonging it showed simply miracles, endurance and patience tolerance. we hoped that our foreign colleagues would finally begin to fully

comply with the agreed and approved parameters and conditions. however, nothing like this no contractual obligations occurred. uh, no one was going to fulfill, but only constantly demanded something from russia to do, to provide one or the other one second third. just frank impudence and impudence on the promise and empty chatter must say that sincerely. i believe that his employees sincerely strove to fulfill all the promises given by the west to the west. well, they could not achieve anything, but retaliation strikes. in fact, they were not just a punishment for ukraine, but then very brazen attacks that had place at all. clearly an attack on the crimean bridge , strikes on russian territory, even

drone strikes on moscow. but what was done by the russian armed forces was not an easy opportunity to show russian military capabilities and repay. and for what they did finally, insolent. uh, zelensky his advisers in kiev. i think something even more significant happened than a successful military operation. there is such. uh, the expression in english is gem member changing the nature of the game. and now, it seems to me that after long period of patience, when russia fought.

when russia, in general, achieved very serious and even for many unexpected results in clashes with the collective west, but at the same time, russia showed, but if one can put it this way strategic patience, great restraint, based on the fact that, in general, some things should not be done, because actions give rise to opposition, because it is necessary to avoid civilian casualties, because in general it is necessary to avoid escalation in every possible way, especially when dealing with fraternal ukrainian people. well, this russian restraint, unfortunately, was not properly assessed in the collective west of washington in london in brussels, and too often it is a strategic restraint in which there was a combination of both new calculation and humanism - this is a strategic restraint. e was perceived as not russia's readiness, not russia's ability to find a more decisive but

more dramatic response to western actions. and, of course, on the actions of the ukrainian puppets, and now, it seems to me that now there has been an amendment to the game, which has come to conclusion. what about allowing ukraine to strike at russia on the basis that moscow will not find some new methods, some new ways to strike back a crushing blow, that this period, that it has come to an end and this period. it was after all long and to those decisions which have been accepted. now in moscow they came to them illegally. i remember very well how in 1991 a completely falsified and unworthy referendum was held in ukraine, as a result of which

ukraine declared its independence. but if you can see how the questions of this referendum were formulated, how there were no international observers. and if you look at how virtually everything was controlled by the ukrainian law enforcement agencies, but let's face it, this is not a referendum that the champions of democracy in quotation marks in the west should have taken seriously, then there was belovezhskaya pushcha, and some promises were made to russia and then these promises were legally formalized. all these promises were ignored. well, then there was a military coup in ukraine in fourteenth. well, a bloody absolutely bloody coup with the complicity of the western powers, which first acted as mediators in the negotiations, and then actually left

one of the parties to president yanukovych to the mercy of fate and brought to power. these are the people who now rule in kiev well, then there were almost 10 years of constant ukrainian attacks on the donbass on donetsk on luhansk on the civilian population, there was the use of aviation against their own people in ukraine, and not against the russian armed forces and not even against some kind of people's militia of donbass donetsk luhansk, it has not yet been created , they used aircraft simply by protesting people who tried to sludge. teach your rights your language and your faith. that's, uh, that's how we got to where we are, if you want to call a spade a spade. it was a creeping

aggression against russia where ukraine was the main instrument. and of course. that's when we look back. it is now becoming clear and understandable. we are all uh, strong in hindsight and not everything could be assumed and even allowed in advance, but now it seems to me that we understand what kind of game we were playing in relation to russia, and it seems to me that the russian leadership is ready to draw the appropriate conclusions from this, speaking at the st. petersburg economic forum, and president putin when i asked him. then what measures is russia ready to take and whether russia is considering the possibility of using nuclear weapons , president putin said very definitely that nuclear weapons are the last thing that will come to

the mind of the russian leadership. and that russia will be very careful about the use of even conventional weapons, which could lead to an escalation, but then putin said, from my point of view, one very significant phrase. he said we will force ourselves to be reckoned with. it’s not that russia doesn’t force people to consider themselves today, what is happening on the fronts of ukraine, in my opinion , proves that it is necessary to consider russia, but it seems to me that president putin meant that there are people there are forces. the active west, who managed to convince themselves that russia can be defeated, that there are some things that the west can do, that there is some resources that the west will be able to mobilize and these resources, these methods, these

forces will be so great that moscow will understand that there is nowhere to go and that one-sided concessions must be made. it seems to me that a conscious decision was made in moscow that such illusions are not in the interests of russia and that russia needs to behave in such a way that it is clear to everyone, including even the most, if you want, not conscious ones. to make it clear that russia cannot be defeated, and that russia not only has all the necessary means, but also russia is fully prepared to do everything necessary to ensure that this war does not end in russia's defeat, and that this struggle does not end. whatever it was imposed on

russia and the world. yes, there have been situations in the history of russia over the past many years when russia acted and when russia sacrificed its interests. well, it seems to me that what is being formulated very clearly in moscow is not going to be like that. and now we will be transported to washington where we will be talked to in mark bishops, a leading specialist in international security, who is well versed in washington politics, but understands what is happening behind the scenes of official washington mark good evening i am very glad to see you, how are things in washington , everything is calm in the american capital. as always, it is a pleasure to talk with you. well , everything, in principle, is quite tense, but

somehow we hold on. well, as far as what is tense, one question immediately arises. and these are some assumptions in the american press that, uh, the administration biden, despite his very belligerent rhetoric. in fact, he is considering the possibility of some serious dialogue, and with russia on ukraine, you know that you saw something that would give grounds for this kind of assumption. a strategic thinker, i think one of the most important theorists of the great grand strategy of great politics in the modern world, edward luv gave a great interview recently where

he expounded. i think it is rather provocative and yet interesting that this door will never was closed and all this time, when we are talking about this idea, that it is necessary to inflict a strategic defeat on russia, uh, s. the administration has always approached this rather cautiously. yes, if i am a functionary, er, for example, of the pentagon or the state departments, i have a very specific assignment. should i supply ukraine with weapons, or should i lobby for sanctions against russia. oh , this is the goal, this is the assignment of an individual functionary. and this functionary fulfills this goal in the best way he can, but at the level of people who are responsible for the issues of war and peace and can e come closer

and set the stage for the negotiation process. this door was never closed and we saw. by the way, this was recently blamed and when the baidan administration stood that this drill in nato for ukraine is open but ukraine is not even close to go through this door yet, but i think it is very important to understand that when we say that negotiations can happen or at least the pressure can decrease. well, and the beast of a thing, first of all, negotiations are taking place at some level of all this time. they didn't stop in a way. we recently learned that a very high-ranking veteran. ziplomats. e. one of them, uh, had conversations, uh , with foreign minister of foreign affairs of russia sergey lavrov, and therefore there are certainly contacts, but in nature. i'm thinking of interrupting sergei lavrov, said e

to channel one and made many other statements about this, and he categorically denied that he was involved in any negotiations with richard chaos and his colleagues in new york. and you know that e is in the past. uh, lavrov repeatedly spoke at the center of national interests, where you and i worked, and even there were usually present, uh, representatives of the administration, people who occupied quite serious positions. this was before the start of the special operation and no one in the head. came that these were negotiations. these were speeches by russia's foreign ministers to an interested and qualified washington audience, as khas himself stated recently. uh, in one of his, in my opinion, speeches. oh, and on their

telegram channel that they have no negotiations they did not, and the white house administration categorically stated that they did. they knew that such an event would take place, but they did not give any instructions to chaos and the company. and it was exclusively, a private initiative is absolutely normal, but these are not negotiations. so, when you talk to officials in moscow, they will confirm some negotiations for you, let's say, in a-a about the exchange, uh , of prisoners, but some kind of negotiations are underway. naturally, e on problems. and two embassies, uh, each country here has its own claims and wishes, but so that you there were serious negotiations on ukraine , at least officials in moscow and washington categorically deny this.

i have two things that i think are important to note about this. first, the line between dialogue and negotiation is not always accurate and not always. uh, exactly, drawn in the sand. and i think the channels are definitely open. you certainly correctly noted that the talks have official diplomatic significance, and i do not want to exaggerate the significance of the contacts that are unconditionally taking place today. you you they noted it very correctly, but the most important thing, as it stands now, is that even in the context of this resistance, the channels are open and, uh, contacts do not stop all this time and these contacts. i think their services are right and luke thinks that these conditions already exist now and can develop into something more and i think it is important to understand that when

the walkie-talkie speaks, this is rhetoric about the fact that we support ukraine until the end of oslan newspapers x for as long as it takes uh uh let's model back. let's say we declare tomorrow that all aid stops. we won't send a single penny to ukraine again. well, then it will be russian troops, uh, easy or well so at least after some time uh, they will definitely win on the battlefield without active western help, and this, i think, almost everyone admits, then russia will be the position to dictate the terms and i think no one in the usa wants this, so if we want to end this conflict from a position of strength. this means that aid should not stop completely. i think there are some excavation measures, for example, like f-slate f-16 fighters, and as we see the white houses are very cautious about this approach, but the idea

that we will stop for a second. uh, we will completely stop supplying ukraine, uh, we will completely stop supplying ukrainian troops. and now we are open now let's negotiate. i don't think anyone should expect it to happen like this, because the white house. i think he wants to enter into any prospects and negotiations with a position of strength. and for this, moscow must feel that help has been and will be. well, well i think you very well described the position of the biden administration, and it seems to me that in moscow the official position is that russia is open to negotiations, but naturally not in a situation where the united states first supplies ukraine with even more lethal long-range loosening weapons and allows ukraine to use these weapons

against. and then they will hope that, as you said correctly, and ukraine acting as an american representative, that ukraine will impose peace conditions on russia, uh to such an opportunity. i want to tell you right away in moscow in leading circles. nobody is ready, but let's move on to another subject. we have very little time, but the subject is important enough donald trump to charge him with taking part in a conspiracy against the american elections in a manifestation of this conspiracy, allegedly there were events in the capitol on january 6, 21. and this is trump saying that yes, that it is inevitable. i want to be careful and point out that uh, as we speak this very second. e indictment. that is

indication, not yet, but other media seems to confirm that this very much can happen, either today, that is, thursday, or at 5:00, or we have every reason that this will happen in truth. this will be the third one. case. there are four in total . uh, the case is due on the sixth of january. there's a case that involves, uh, accusations that trump interfered in, uh, the georgia state elections, uh, in the electoral process. there is an accusation that is related to the fact that he paid e money, which he paid incorrectly. uh, financial, bureaucratic and paid incorrectly. let's call her, but the actress, uh, and there is a thing about the fact that he is not u not responsible, but he kept secret documents and legal experts, dimitri say that uh , from start to finish, these four processes can

last years or even months. a year this is guaranteed to last after the election. uh, 24 years old, presidential election and trump is certainly eligible as an american citizen at the same time. uh, despite these indictments to run and he's totally going to do it and in some cases right. if they admit his guilt you, forgive. this is called e in america in english, that is, he has the right to annul these associations against himself, as e will be expressed by the speakers of the most selective homies for the white house. i think it's too early to tell uh dscenes supporters, uh, who's in second place as the gop candidate. it is said that this may not interfere with trump during the republican primaries, because the majority, or at least most of the loosekan voters, think

that he is not guilty. but it might get in the way of him against biden if biden is told by the majority of american voters that trump is a criminal this can really work against him and it will be very interesting to see how these speakers will produce, but i can only say one thing about these latest accusations related to the events in the capitols on january 6th, to understand, uh, the quality of the charges, and i want to repeat the charges have not yet been filed we have not read them, so we only know what has been publicly announced already announced that this is one of the laws that is going to apply against transport. this is the law of 1871, i repeat. i don't stipulate. 1871, which was technically directed against the ku klux klan, but in fact both part

of those laws that applied the so-called reconstruction period, where the victorious north cracked down on the southerners and to understand how these laws. here correlated with human rights, they said that they protect civil rights. it was just the period when the genocide of the indians was carried out to the maximum, that is, they were very worried about the rights of black americans in the south, who were defeated by the north, but at the same time carried out genocide quite calmly. well, to apply this law in u seriously, uh, twenty-third year, but somehow i am not very logical and at the same time trump is charged, allegedly based on his correspondence with his lawyer mark if there is any achievement of the american judicial system. it is that contacts with a lawyer correspondence with a lawyer

is confidential and cannot be used against the accused. but now this lawyer was interrogated, interrogated with passion and use their correspondence. but if someone thinks that this is, uh, an objective vision of the investigation, then i don’t know what to say huge to you. thank you. hope to see you soon. take care of yourself. let's move on to advertising and now we will move to beijing and discuss what is happening in china and what is happening, of course, in russian-chinese relations , alexei maslov, a leading expert on china, will be with us

. in accordance with by decision of the president of the russian federation , the main naval parade will be held . i congratulate you on the day of the navy.

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us usually ivanovo morning. i want more of us, more of us, smirnov's problem. so how do you get past here? i want more of us. these are my best evenings of the pokrovsky evening and i want more of them, because there is nothing more. than happiness national project demography. no, i wanted to visit those places that my father described, smoked the country to baikal. i don't know who they write. i’m not talking about my own foreigners, i don’t know if he had to write some places, no matter how far he had to climb. he would definitely come, get acquainted with the local old-timers, one rybak shows on his nerves, and the little amushka tells me they feed us. i think

what an interesting name, where we first went to the amur, we swam, then sat on a bench. here is a bench standing at about the same place. there you come to visit good people want to stay with them for the 75th anniversary of mikhail zadornov today at the first . now we will have a conversation with alexei maslov, director of the institute of asian african countries at moscow university, and alexei is considered to be the leader of merit. possibly the most leading russian expert on china . so i'm going to ask you a big question right away. russian-chinese relations they are definitely

very friendly, a lot of positive things are happening, including in the field of trade, including in the field of political statements political symbolism, then, as beijing recently received a delegation of the soviets of the federal assembly, headed by valentina and matvienko but on the other hand, all the same, relations. they are not simple and, uh, there are some limitations in chinese willingness to expose russia, so how would you describe the current state of u russian chinese relations. you can’t describe this situation with one phrase, because everyone is really absolutely right. it is constantly becoming more complicated, and in china, it turns out that every step, as they say, leads to a new point of bifurcation. now, for example, another turning point

in relations with washington and china, of course, wants to improve them, but on the other hand. china obviously doesn't want to do this as a victim of relations with russia, so when you look at trade between uh, china and russia, it's seriously increasing , but as i understand it, the united states trade with the european union, it's in a slightly different category, yes, absolutely right, because we have, uh, trade now, uh, is approaching $ 200 billion. i think that it will exceed 200 billion this year. there we go with some kind of lead. well , all the same, us trade with the european union exceeds 800 billion. and in the same way as japan is ahead of us, the countries of osin that is, if you look dryly? russia is not the main partner of china, but there is one feature that is well understood by russia over the past 40 years, it has never changed its position towards china, that is, it has not jumped from side to side, it has not talked about it and friends have never blamed enemies. china

on some, uh, separate issues, and in this plan or china is more important than stability. than the volume of trade. that's why, of course, from the point of view of the political union, russia is much more important than the us on the other hand. china does not want to lose. uh, the largest american and european market. and by the way, including the markets of australia and new zealand, which were honestly completely subject to, so to speak, the american uh, dictate. in the literal sense, and here china is trying what is called to run between construction sites and china says his favorite phrase. this is what she says. although this english phrase. it is also pronounced in chinese that we must adhere to the policy of wining, that is, e, mutual win mutual e, mutual benefits among ourselves, but here, e, china absolutely does not trust in the usa and what the americans do now, both in the face of kissinger and in the face of blinken. china already great. everyone

understands that the us is aiming to torpedo china's development model. this is the main question. they don’t understand this in peak , they understand it brilliantly, we look at this from the statements of truths, ping and chinese individual experts. uh, and if earlier it was possible to say that you know in china there is, of course, about the american wing, not the one that loves america, but the one that believes that there is no need to swear with america now there was an absolutely nationalist wing that said china is the main one, it’s necessary to attack america, on the contrary, now we see that the opinion has been leveled that america is definitely a strategic enemy , china which i do not even say the word opponent. it would seem that it is a softer chinese word dizhen - this is literally, the enemy there, of course, you can go over the opponent and, so to speak, the opponent. but this is what opposes china and

china, if we look at chinese politics before the twentieth year. uh, america was not particularly criticized, and you could hardly find it only from some very chinese hawk and expresses that america is bad. everyone says, it is necessary to develop relations in america is not the kind of ideology. but as a partner she is good. now we see that the opinion of the cherished snake. these injections from the united states e about the so-called wuhan coronavirus, as trump called it injections about the tibetan problem about xindian about taiwan and most importantly , the creation of an anti-chinese coalition around the country led china e to the conclusion that this is not an economic confrontation and it is about the economy . we are talking about the systemic torpedoing of everything that was achieved much more widely than the disputes in taiwan significantly and china began this understanding taiwan is something they want to grab and pull. this was the famous phrase that you need to grab the thread and

pull out the whole chain. and so i heard that chinese political scientists have repeatedly used this that, uh, the americans are trying to find that little thread that they can pull to destroy the whole of china. and you have problems. they are not connected with the us it is really a slowdown in the economy - it is uh food difficulties with the food market an aging population. well, hundreds, as in general, any normal country, and therefore for china is now a question. eh, not only economic stabilization is important, but the issue of stabilizing this model, according to which china is developing, and here we must admit that in america there are very smart, very well -educated experts on china, who are systematically trying to destroy now. uh, chinese development, no matter what they say , no matter what other experts on china say let's turn now to kiser. he is now in beijing, he has already met with you, who is in charge of the politburo.

naturally after the man on the outside politics. he met mr barons. and today he met with his zemfins. and and now i'm not completely, it's clear how to perceive. uh, the level of this visit, because on the one hand in china they consider those whom they consider old friends and like to show towards them. but if you want, increased courtesy, but on the other hand. i think, after all, a meeting with the most important leader for a person who, in general, is now not in power and not close to the administration. i think it's a long time ago have some. meaning besides sentimentality is a symbolic meaning, but it is not only a symbol, because in china, uh , and it is just brush fat knows very well

that a meeting between friends is valued. uh, when you come to china for business negotiations or political negotiations. uh, the first second meeting does not give you anything, because there is such a good chinese expression that does not sound like business in russian. let's become good friends, talk, go to a restaurant, discuss, uh, the weather and chinese culture, and uh, in china the concept of harmony relations. it's very important , it's much more important than written agreements and, uh, in my opinion. only one person in the united states now understands to the end what the harmony of relations is, in fact , the kingger, who, in my opinion, is a very important point, really can not really represent it. uh, the white house does not represent the us administration, but represents a certain group of sane american politicians and businessmen who understand that today the clash with china absolutely not necessary and very interesting and another point. uh, as we found out that both it was

leaked and the us and us chinese media that this is china during the visit, blinkin told blinkin that uh china will visit the cayger. this is an extremely interesting moment, uh, and the americans. at least they pretended that they didn't know about it, that it was a private visit and uh, i think kissinger uh, if not once hmm they told how to build informal relations with china uh, and improve relations. i would say that it is necessary look for a person who has vast experience. e work with china about anything. let him not mutual positions, let him go and talk. and here, in my opinion, an extremely important moment is being decided, this moment, connected with the fact that the kissinger must then it doesn’t matter what he says to voice, the message that, most likely to him in the words of the seredinkin programs, china is ready to equalize relations or all the same. china has already

gone the same way in such a peak confrontation indeed, a very experienced person. man very wise great american patriot and kissinger never liked to be accused of their softness. and that he is ready to go elevated, uh, towards, and an american rival? and so the question arises, when the kistic is conducting these negotiations in uh beijing. this means that there is some potential for some understanding, and some messages, some hints that could

be against interests in russia. in russia because, well, we understand that there are zinpins ivan and uh, they perfectly understand that uh, this can be discussed. and they can be very harsh. eh, if we look at all the tone of the conversations, at least what we see today in the press, both from the chinese side and from the american side. uh, china is behaving much more aggressively than china. well, at least deprive ivan of the information and just pounced, uh, with standard language on the brushes. e about taiwan about destroyers of the us function about the fact that the us is calling with

tension in the pacific ocean at the same time kiseru all the time uh, he was talking about the fact that no one can push the us and china militarily that we must introduce responsibility for uh, the whole world, that is, we have not seen anywhere, even the slightest forwarding, not about russia, not about the ukrainian conflict, not about the situation in europe and the brush is so smart that he reduces it as if wise people need it, well, there is a canoe of this, suppose and agree on responsibility for the world. everything else should take care of itself automatically. i was impressed. uh, in a conversation with kieseler, according to the chinese country, he said that it would be important for the united states to have people like kissinger . well, then he mentioned richardnixon. and he specifically spoke about the courage of richard nixon, and richard nixon was really brave in this respect, and kissinger himself readily admits that the idea that the united states needs to restore relations with china, this idea was nixon’s, and kissinger supported it

and largely implemented it, because indeed such a turn in the american policy from total rejection of china to the creation of a new relationship - it's still an idea that, uh, that could only come from the president, not this national security adviser. but now, when the war says such a thing to a kiser and i will voice this public one. is this just a sign of politeness to praise kissinger, or is it? do you want to hint quite transparently that the current administration in washington is not known for courage, not completely adequately i, well, hats, yes, really, well, i know you and and and uh showed it at the negotiations and i understand that neither one word is never superfluous, brilliant is also an absolute specialist, so

it seems to me that there are two overwhelming meanings here. they go together, firstly, that it is the leaders of states who must take some extraordinary, ambiguous actions in order to resolve such a tangle of contradictions, and secondly, that the current administration in washington is indeed not as smart, and most importantly, not as brilliant in terms of diplomacy as it was before, by the way, nixon is a positive character. e in chinese history, and they are very say a lot of positive things. i remember. why then it happened is an important point then. there was a negative factor - this is the influence of the soviet union, and in fact, many people talked about this, this was nixon and e moldzulun at a meeting in the seventy-second year, and before that, kissinger and joella in the seventy-first year, and most importantly, then. uh, why did the rapprochement of e in the declaration of the year 1972 and 1979 occur at all

? i think the baths and there is also a hint, barely now. e washington will reduce the rhetoric on taiwan, but then it really is the soil, because for now washington is apart from talking and the kind e of the legendary exingger. he didn't do anything positive. the bidn administration is constantly talking about how they are trying to persuade china, uh, to pressure china to take a tougher stance against russia, primarily about uh, russia's effective ukraine uh. uh, they say that now, uh, china is actually responsible for russia's actions by the fact that china does not condemn russia and does not prove russia thus they say, uh, china is already responsible for russian actions. and here

there is a very clear hint that if you hope that you will be left alone on this occasion, do not hope. if you want to have good relations with us, move away from russia, this can be crowned. at least some success. i don’t think that china will move away from russia, we see, firstly, there are a number of facts, on the contrary, rapprochement is more likely, we see something else. we see that indeed china, uh, has taken a number of very careful steps, so as not to disturb the harmony of their relationship. more precisely, relations with some american and chinese business circles. we see some difficulties, for example, with money sent to them from russia to china. this is true. there are problems with banks in general . they come from private banks or official organizations. well, let's be honest, of course. this is not a private decision. this

is somewhere a decision is being made at the political level, but this is also a question that china for some reason does not like russia, this question is that china is saving its economy so as not to get secondary sanctions, but i understand, well, china is building its future in some detail and, uh, the struggle for leadership in the world has not uh disappeared and russia is clearly not china’s competitor in this regard, and the united states is also in the field of technology in the field of military equipment and, most importantly, in the field of managing world processes, so moving away from russia in favor of the united states, for example, will mean that the entire chinese model and the entire chinese future. well, it will be literally a wreck. china is also not in easy situation and it all boils down to more trade less trade. it would be just a very primitive every second benefit china is unlikely to go for it.

sensitive topics nuclear weapons i don't have to tell you that russia's position is that nuclear weapons can only be used in the most extreme conditions, when either russian statehood is threatened or sovereignty is under attack , but the united states would like to remove, and russian nuclear potential, if want, and from the category of balance of power. ah, because if russia was not perceived, and as a great nuclear power, but only as a personal collective west, it would be easier to deal with russia. if it had become known in advance, it would have been known that russia was not in a position to use its nuclear weapons. this would certainly change the military dynamic in favor of washington and nato, in this game the united

states turns to china and speaks. you must convince russia not to use nuclear weapons under any circumstances. what is the chinese response to this and i'm not so much interested in the fact that china is different from the united states. and what is china doing about this in relation to russia, while china has a pretty standard situation. it hasn't changed in the last decade that uh are really nuclear weapons, uh, and it's even in official chinese national security documents. it can only be used in the event of an initial attack on chinese military installations in general on chinese territory by powers that have nuclear weapons. that there is china here the position is very tough. ah, the maximum. i would even say that nuclear weapons cannot be used, even tougher than russia, but this is an important point. china never interferes with the policies of other e countries regarding the protection of their

territory. and it could be china not because, again, china loves russia more than the united states, but because china expects no one to interfere in its politics in return. and by the way, it is very interesting that e china for the first time, probably in recent decade. eh, i began to see articles by a number of experts that, of course, nuclear weapons are not allowed to be thrown around just like that, but look. uh, if u around china are created in fact? i am the new nuclear powers. see how south korea got involved, there in the discussion of the possibility of this uh, in japan uh, the us military base and the us missile can carry nuclear weapons. tai that should sit and keep silent like this, so here i don’t see a serious shift to the side in china, you don’t see, uh, the possibility that china will become uh, to lobby the american position on this matter, but for the sake of something, as they say. and

what china wins is that huawei is allowed to trade on the american market. but in general, this is absolutely not implausible talk that china, uh, explains to russia how it should in no case use one or another weapon of its arsenal, this is american wishes for this is not a chinese position. this is also called senking, when many american political scientists do not understand how russian-chinese relations are being built. that's what it is the negotiation process, as we are able to hear each other, and i can’t imagine that the chinese would, uh, politician, uh, at a high level there, the highest. at a high level, i would begin to explain to russia that if you use nuclear weapons, then we will not be friends with you. in general, this is a thing that is implausible in practice to chinese politics, it would probably be useful to know your opinion, but the chinese naval ships that have just begun in russia.

it's uh something, uh, if you want routine or they reflect some serious trend, to which we should keep in mind, and i called it such an evolving routine because it's been over a decade. we are holding joint. uh, russian chinese naval exercises with air patrols, eh, but each time we increase, as it were, the intensity of this. uh, and i think it's been done every year except for one coronavirus year. uh, and we're constantly deepening the interaction. right now, these teachings are devoted to the situation, well, in the japanese morita the theoretical situation. and they are as far as we can understand. in theory they are playing the situation with taiwan, because both russia and china are certainly very worried about the situation around taiwan, that is, there is a collapse of tension. and i generally remind you that this is an avan - this is not quite a chinese problem. this is not far from the coast of russia, this is a single water area, and therefore

russia and china are conducting joint military exercises. including coordination of efforts at the crew level at the command level. that is, this group is present at each other's command posts, which indicates that, after all, the integration of the military field. at us much deeper. what our american colleagues can suggest, including paying attention. uh, for example, the russian delegation, after a meeting with mr. defense of china, lichen. fu she visited, including naval shipyards. eh, china, that is, perhaps, and we do not exclude that we are talking about the joint development or at least the accusation of information about new types of weapons. this is such a deep interaction. you started our conversation by saying what i think is quite it is true that in one word, even, probably, in one phrase. er, it's impossible to describe russian-chinese relations, but

whether my impression is correct is not a rhetorical question. do i have the correct impression that, although these relations are complex and somewhat contradictory, but, nevertheless, the vector of development. clearly positive, firstly, we are moving in the same direction. this is true. secondly, we are really strategic partners. and it's not a figure of speech. these are certain plans, and thirdly, there is no need to simplify and at the same time say so tragic those relationships. uh, there can't be a simple relationship between two great nations. but, in general, it seems to me that the understanding is very deep. it is like leadership at the business level at the policy level at the level of military departments. how did you see why here? eh, we need the most important thing, not to bring down the balance of relations and always take into account these subtle nuances. and then everything, in general, we will move at a normal pace. thank you very much alexey. eh, that was an interesting conversation. and we really have a lot of you have learned. thank you