[000:00:00;00] we are not interested in your personal weapon, where you are, what rank you have in the red army legendary film about soviet intelligence omega variant on saturday at first, today we are discussing with vovan and lexus not only pranks, but also the state of the information field and the possibilities of manipulation. but if we talk about this new information space. he has some laws. i remember being at one such, let's say , closed meeting, where someone confidently said that the only law of the new information field is absence. whatever there were laws. is this true or not? well, here, too, of course, there is a question of trust, because

if you constantly make these fakes and spread there what is not true, of course, you will not be trusted and you will be on the same level there with the fake ones. imita, and if you really want to have an audience there, payback is one way or another, but the question is still in dosage, that is, there are telegram channels that really do there. uh, true real news, and there, let's say, 15% of some fakes, both for these and because of these, well few fakes. well, well, loud, as it were, well, and you watch real news, as it were, everything is fine, as it were, well, in fact, they also attract attention, they also deceive. but you know, here. um, actually, i think it's amazing that we are now discussing this so calmly. yes, although, in principle, we are used to it, we turn around in this yes, yes, well, simply, well, in classical journalism, the journalist is responsible. that's all that he wrote five to 15%. not a single percent and the corresponding law are fakes that are not

it was just accepted. e that x-me questions are just more than telegram channels. first of all, there is legislation. where are these laws written? and what happens because if maliciously, uh, journalists publish something? but there is no such law in the telegram. but it is necessary that this be regulated. i think it's like fighting windmills, because it's an important fight. we had a podcast here about cervantes. we agreed that these windmills are very real giants, but you have it is clear that some big channels. yes, where there is a million audience. yes, half a million, if some are small, well, you can’t keep track of everything. well, there is a law on fakes there, which have caused significant harm to the infrastructure of the population there. that's it. well, it’s not even spelled out there. no reason, there’s no need to cause harm. this must

be this must be a fake, creating a threat to further all these consequences. but you know how, it seems to me, because, again, in classical journalism. here in any the textbook will be written that the functions informs to educate there to entertain there to entertain. can you say yes? of course , there is a very serious function of influence. and so, when i remember, when the same there were some social networks and the same telegram was just starting. why, uh, you think i'm an anonymous channel. yes, what am i, for example, reading from a situation that i know well. i understand that this is not true. and then i read other news and i think, in theory, i should make a logical conclusion that since they are lying here, most likely they are lying there too, but there i already i don't know exactly what's going on. i sit thinking, and suddenly and this, and suddenly this is a psychological impact. but that is, it, in principle, manipulates me. i remember visiting a friend of mine. well, let's say this to a media person, and we agreed to meet with him, he runs and talks. listen, i

say i must urgently give a few interviews, because this is what this telegram channel wrote that i went on vacation, in the subsequent resignation. i say it's gone on vacation. he says no but i already have 10 people. called and asked if i was okay the other 10 people no longer pick up the phone when i call, that is, this is manipulation, and it affects real life, it turns out, well, yes, of course well, these anonymous channels have a serious audience. but look , it turns out what a shifter. if, nevertheless , we proceed from the fact that journalism is information about what happened and a discussion of what happened, then today we often discuss it very emotionally. and in general, quite seriously. yes, what has not happened or will not happen, that's how to relate to it. well, how do you feel about rumors?

they have always been and always will be. e, here i say again that this is a matter of what a person wants to believe and many people don’t need this evidence, they need to confirm their own point of view, that’s why they read this news, that’s why they read certain channels that somehow correspond to them , but you don’t see any such serious problems in this, because it, well, it blurs the boundaries in general. yes, but the question is how to deal with it. and in general, is it possible to fight it. well we're trying to fight, than the fact that some applications are blocked , some slow down the speed. well, as you can see, it doesn't work for everyone. well, in terms of the fact that video hosting is known, which now exists on the territory of russia , you won’t find anything there. well, by the way, to the question, yes, on the other hand, after all, and in the same information field. and today, for understandable political reasons, they faced the most severe censorship. today, by the way,

the parodists of zelensky people have removed the channel further. i just wrote some funny songs. yes, and there he did streams, but you personally encountered this. we faced this removal three times. we have also been removed for an official reason, allegedly for the fact that we are threatening, the national security of the uk, some are removed without explanation. serious reasons guys yes, well, they blocked, in fact. mm your minister. after all, it was not we who put these words to him. yes, he said them himself, therefore, in national security. here the minister of great britain threatened the national security of his words to his words, and blocking you here turns out to be another problem, which is true, they are just trying make it fake, and on this basis, cancel and block. this is interesting, of course, very interesting, but such a twist, yes. the truth is trying

to declare a fake. or just ban it, right? that is, in principle, one thing is much worse than a fake, when you forbid it, when you say that it is a lie. by the way, i wanted to ask you, but it turns out that you are using well, what is called a prank. yes, but you are actually fighting fakes. yes, and it even happens that we communicate with those people who distribute them in advance, knowing that this is a lie, and we there were several such serious high-profile things, when a person admitted to us that i was on purpose, but heated up the situation and lied. as it were, but another question is that you won’t prove anything to us, that is, to the side, because she will be prejudiced against us in advance . well, you know, here's something else i was thinking about. there is a situation with fakes, when a person consciously, can look for something. yes , but it seems to me that there is a deeper problem.

it may be less sharp, but in that people begin to fantasize immediately. here it is necessarily necessary to write why? and that is, we have an addiction, i don’t know, or what? that's what happened or did not even happen something announced and that's any self-respecting, so to speak, blogger. he believes that he has no idea how he is. this blogger has been silent for 3 hours, but thank god he has disappeared. it was followed every day. and how would you see here, what is my question? after all, this is not a problem of a fake, as such , a conscious one, but a problem of constructing an information field, which consists of some of our hmm scraps of thoughts if i may say, yes i’ll throw out emotions, under which for some reason someone should discuss this, after all, she immediately becomes specialists in all areas. yes, but this is another facet of this problem, so to speak. i just mean that this is a fundamentally different design, information fields. it, and even we, it seems to me, do not fully understand this, that it is completely different

, everything that would never have hit before. this is the common space. today it consists of it. and it can be very cool to continue to wear this influence, but people are more think with emotions and want to consume emotions. but look here then there is such a turn, and a phrase that is unpleasant to pronounce and admit to it, but i am afraid that we will not get away from this, there is no person who cannot be manipulated. there is no question of the strength of the impact, but of readiness. yes, this impact is exercised on the scale of this. yes, someone is simpler, someone here is, probably, people who are not amenable to hypnosis, as they say, but people who are not amenable to manipulation, most likely, are absent or there are such manipulations may be different. even even some household

household manipulations. or when we come to the supermarket store. there's also a huge whole science lined up on how to entice people to buy. e, this or that, so we are constantly in this field, but it is about the information field. if we say it’s a secret, we won’t reveal, of course, that all telegram channels in one way or another pursue the goal of their owner, for someone commercial, for someone else, someone else wants to influence again. well, if we let's make news that would not be uh, manipulative, that is, just dry, as if the news is there, so i often quarrel with one well-known federal media agency and they write, uh, such actual prankster headlines. eh, they played a trick on such and such a person. i speak. well, why would you even write. well, what was there, in fact, there was some kind of loud thing from there, that you really are like

that. well, no, we're so official with her. we give this title. well, then they themselves hand over some kind of clickbait headline, that something happened there, of course subscribers. well, that is, there will be more views, but look, but still, yes. a, if we proceed from what is unpleasant when it was manipulated and on the idea. well, normal people don't even know what exactly they were. naturally, well, usually those who are sure that the name is being manipulated. that's what you're manipulating. but there are some rules that can help. here is a way for a person to resist this. well, okay. that's when you already said at the beginning, when you just take information from different sources and compare it already allows. you somehow see a little. yes, what else could it be? it is imperative to look at the invoice, that is, who said, when he said under what circumstances, because the source of some telegram channel wrote that lexus said it is not a fact that lexus

is specifics without it. it's all like that. it is not plausible, therefore, you need to figure it out and still look somewhere for some inconsistencies, because there is enough of this goodness in any news, but you feel when they read something, that this is manipulation. and what and how are you trying, let's say, probably, even somehow not trying to understand it, because i'm so well, as for me, this is ordinary, that well, everyone wants to. eh, when are you studying there? the media is not even the media, even the telegram channel and or just some bloggers, opinion leaders should still understand that, but someone is behind them and some. well, there is something behind them. who is behind you? well we are an example. here is which exception managed. yes, that's what i always say too. here. well, if you take

the media, after all, there is some kind of team there. yes they work, somewhere the state office for something live receive money. that is, it is clear there are some owners. and there is, because this particular one, and in classical, as we say today, even journalism, it is also always clear that there are some interests of the owners. media yes, but here it is not directly related to manipulation. well, different news can be presented in different ways. even now you look during the conflict. yes, and that even some kind of news can submit one, well, our official media is fine, yes, but let's say some opposition there somehow turn out in a different way. here is the same news, but somehow the other way around so that a would still say what father's soap means. well, it's generally elementary to do. you know here. uh, somehow paid attention, m-m, well, because it comes to me. now, too, there are some interviews to give in official status. and i say that this is a difficult situation on the one hand and on the other hand. here i remember goes publications in the headline. it says

there any you said a colon and it says what i said on one side and the other media publishes. this is the same interview, but in the title it changes what was said on the one hand. this is what they took for granted. they took out what i said on the other side and it turned out that the same text, but with opposite headings. yes, but this is the nuance of the complexity of the situation, that there is one and the other. it is simply absent from the headline and those who read the headlines do not go any further. they simply, well, the readers of the first were sure that i said this, and the readers of the second what was it? well , after all, it seems to me, uh, here is a conscious the person and the person in charge should develop some rules of information hygiene. this is about it. today they are serious. well, yes, there is. so such is the term digital intoxication. well, this is no longer a joke. it seems to me that, uh, no, well, you definitely need to take a break from the news flow. and you rest, as they say, you don't read

newspapers, right? we try, of course, but as it should, probably, look at some kind. if you still want to study something, but some, well, maybe not news content. look at least someone out there is cooking something interesting. yes, on channel one. here, the more scientific content. you can look somehow a little bit to go to another area , for example, there, if politics is very concerned, well, look in some other area to see something like that , take a walk on the street. well, how do you personally feel? here dependence on this unfortunately, yes? well, here, uh, the fact is that our activity is somehow connected with the news agenda. and therefore, all ideas are also born on the basis of the fact that we we read, we look, therefore yes, we also have such an occupational disease, well, deformations alone can be cured, we are trying to live with acceptance. today we gathered our thoughts

about the prank of manipulations and the state of the information field vladimir kuznetsov alexey stolyarov, we continue, as far as i understand, but there are two extreme approaches, but to what is called prank. although a lot of things are called pranks. yes, but still the approach to the fact that it is almost an art. here is art, practical joke and so on. this is on one end of the spectrum and on the other, what is this hooliganism, for which it is necessary to punish the shame of the profession there, and so on. you know that the profession of a prankster, that we call our spies scouts, and their various spies are always. yes, it’s clear exactly the same way, and well, it works like that. there in ukraine in the west. they call us hooligans. yes, there are even spies, they are not champions there, well, it is clear that ionic and there it is of such a negative nature. we have

it a little differently. so for you personally , after all, this is even journalism, even journalists are more related to instrumental such a professional composition. yes, it sees here instrumentally professionally, someone believes that this is art to a greater extent. but then, uh, be careful what you do. this? what do you think this is? all together modestly said, lyosha prank is also different. yes, what can you call it, this is too broad a concept, because there, let’s say on the street you go to some crazy person, well, no, well, it’s clear, there is a schoolboy, yes, let’s say for a day your thigh on your head and say, oh, i decided to test your reaction. how fun is this but this, of course, has nothing to do with our activities at all, or someone may call there, well, telephone divorces. this thing has been going on all over the country for a long time, as if they were somehow more elegant, because they force people there

to do different things. we do not ask anyone to take loans in our name, money, even money. we do not ask us. there is no component, namely, or, as it were, a whole spy operation c wagner themselves, which flew to minsk, should have, as it were, fly somewhere to colombia there for a to work, yes, a it turns out that it was a special operation, just the well-thought-out ukrainian special services gathered people to put them in kiev and, accordingly, arrest something very distant. but look, again, closer to that, here, uh, what drives you? yes, well , there is still such a point of view that someone is doing this because of the love of art. well, because you get some kind of drive, yes, i don’t know, you learn something there. they say yes to communications and so on, but someone thinks that this is a tool to say something, uh, in your case, is that more of a degree? well, that is, it is a means

for some purpose or for the love of art. here you are, well, like it here, if you didn’t like being, they didn’t do it for so long. well, i admit, maybe you have different points of view. not everything is 100% the same. no, this is some kind of general, probably, those topics are still simple. well, how did they put it? yes, this is the first thing that we really want to do something interesting, cool and informative and every time we try to reveal these skills in ourselves, er, to reveal and improve, because a good conversation is an interlocutor that has informational value when you do it. i think this is what motivates me the most. but i remember that they once said to me, this is not the first time we are talking. what

stories did you have that you didn't release? uh, yes, as i understand it, including for some moral reasons. yes, that is, you decided what? well, somehow you made a mistake in a person, yes, with yours, that is, in my opinion, you were not mistaken, but i mean from the point. well why can i i may have misunderstood, but i understood that you did not release it because you think that this is it. well, this person should not, so to speak , apply. here is a blow we have that does not come out. it doesn't come out exactly private life. hmm, if we cut it out, it's just that we never unwittingly laid out a conversation about it. yes, we never publish it. it's not in our rules. what about? i think that hypothetical i then said that if we felt this person, and we would consider that it is not worth publishing with him. nothing we would not have done it, but we have such interlocutors. not so, well, i mean, well, i mean, are you still so fundamental to cook

here? yes, if suddenly there is doubt about the expediency, we weigh all the pros and cons well, but they tried to figure out how to prank this question all the time we are also asked. but uh. i think it’s quite well, we are called after some loud story by journalists, let’s say they ask something, but you won’t check everyone, for sure i ’ll be excited from there and let’s send from the official email me a letter no well, just what will they get out of it, what will they learn? well, some news. eh, you don't really know from us. uh , what sounds good about what we don't talk about publicly, we're unlikely to say anything the opposite of china's decision to periodically call and divorce. the truth is they don't know. they call, but they all

accidentally fall into some not so long ago, well, not very, apparently, a gifted person wrote. eh, what, i mean, uh, i am a military commissar. e of the central military registration and enlistment office of russia there is such, it turns out. that means urgent you need to, so talk to me. well, i don’t usually pick up the phone for some kind of call. uh, an incomprehensible plus, they still call, they call, they call. well, i guess it's something like this. well, he definitely writes. e in telegram right away, which means that there is some kind of main military congress. well , i understand that everything is clear with you dear man, dear a. then he writes a few days later. i don't reply at all. i want, so you from belarus i want to do something that prank. is it possible to communicate with you somehow there, so about it? me too didn't answer anything. well, because if you are trying such a prank stupid. doing something means that what is being discussed with you, but look, and since you said that any

person is possible if desired, does this mean that, in principle, it is impossible to protect yourself from this? mm, well, no, it doesn’t mean, uh, just one thesis to use the means of communication the question is, what is the scope of this divorce, maybe, uh, just if you really treat all these external calls with such a caution. yes, then, of course less chance of breaking up. it depends on what kind of training uh the person who wants to do it. well, and accordingly. i think we can too. that is, you would be interested, well, yes, well, depending on what, if it's interesting, some kind of large-scale divorce. and you assume that there is some kind of option in which you can lead a conversation like that. when you say, this is what, well, in general, you would not like to speak normally,

firstly, we will not say frankly by means of communication, so it would hardly give anything, a secondly, well, once again i will say what we say publicly. yes, but it does not contradict what we really think, therefore we do not see the meaning. thanks, thanks. today we gathered thoughts about prank manipulations and the state of the modern information space. see you again. this podcast is a must read. i am agleynabatnikova director, writer today i am visiting oleg demidov poet, critic,

literary critic and ekaterina dvigubskaya director to write we will discuss maringoff and his roman cynics. maringov is the second leader e among the circle, therefore , the most famous of them is sergei yesenin, but nevertheless the maringov is also quite famous, and he begins to try himself as a prose writer after the success of the poetic. uh, roman of the cynic comes out, but it comes out in the german publishing house petropolis, uh, in 1928. and it calls a certain scandal. after that, the novel is banned by soviet russia and comes out again, only in the eighty-eighth year. oleg please tell me why it happened. it is necessary to enter into such a historical and cultural context and understand what time it is, right? and this, firstly. secondly, it is necessary to understand

the biography of the very orings, because he took place as a poet and was one of the leading poets, not only of the moscow order, he is not worth it. yes, it's a tenth mark. so the beginning of the twenties, we are generally in all of literary russia, yes, and after the death of yesenin, he switched to a pause, because he realized that he could write so experimentally in avant-garde in engineering, as he wrote, but he could no longer. yes, and no one will print it, yes, but, because they have already begun slowly tighten the screws, began to standardize literature, and were looking for a new soviet art. eh, let's just say, yes, and he tried the transport after the death of yesenin , wrote small memoirs and is called memories of sergei yesenin. yes, and they were very close all the series. best friends rented one apartment, and traveled a lot together and published books , they did their own business, and the cafe cost pegasus

well, and so on, yes, but he looked these memories diverge well, and the most friendly the ratings were from critics from colleagues and he decided to rewrite these memoirs into a novel which is called the novel without lies. many are sure that this is again memoirs yes, but this is not quite. so there is such a concept of non-fiction of the new real, yes, that is, a novel without fiction a novel without lies, again, and this is how it is translated, and the european slavs were american slavs in the second half of the 20th century. in the twenties, he already created all this, and after the success of the fragrance, without lying. again, he is engaged in exceptional and in the twenty-eighth year, when he is from moscow on summer moves to voronezh he had a wife. anna borisovna called her. that's it there a little bit to play in the drama theater, and

he already collected. well, the body of another son, and went to voronezh, and there, in a matter of months , he wrote tsenitnikov. yes, why did it happen? that they began to ban him. yes , the twenty-eighth year, in general, e is not very calm, and in the twenty-eighth year , mikhail sholokhov begins to write his great novels with a quiet don. yes, and mikhail bulgakov with the master margarita and here are marings with price tags, yes the screws are slowly being tightened, and the first five-year plan begins, large construction projects begin. ah, industrialization, yes , the standardization of everything and everything. here is and hmm brenkov. it’s just that he’s totally unlucky, and in general he wasn’t very lucky in life and the death of his mother and the death of his father and the death of his best friend. but then they forbid the novel and forbid it for a completely idiotic reason, the book was

published not in russia but in germany, while petropolis ferlag is such an amazing publishing house, where absolutely soviet ones were also published. and some fellow travelers some anti-soviet white migrants, yes, that is, they took everyone, if only there was good literature roman cynics - this is a novel and free love and free relationships actions take place against the background of the revolution in moscow, dashing years, complete chaos, so to speak, the era of change and cynicism is just the main character, vladimir and olga , the most important thing in this novel is, in my opinion, the figurative series, then how is the novel written not about anything? and as it is clear that the scenery. uh, it's a revolution, scary times. and how is this cannibalism spelled out all the time about what they eat people, it's, well, practically this rhythmic, like music all the time, it

knocks down the rhythm of the novel, these inserts, and it is generally very curiously written. it's not even like roman. such a great verse poem is brilliantly written. here you sit and read it. i sat with a pencil and left ticks all the time, because. well, these are such unexpected phrases that are not similar to anything. um images. it's all so twisted and twisted. and why are you just sitting and don’t understand how a person could come up with this in his head, so make up words unique optics, but this is, uh, the techniques of women, it’s right to create an image from some unexpected things. well, for example, it is more difficult for me to read his poems. the novel is readable. in general, well, in one breath, at the same time, that he is very poetic. he is figurative, of course. well reading. well, in general, a serious read, but it is read easily and with interest, and

for me this is the main character. she is wild, charming despite the fact that she is steamy. e, in general, this is anti feminine. again an image that was very often in russian, as i it seems that nastasya filippovna is beginning to write literature. i don't know anna karenina, such a fan-fatal woman who destroys herself in this whirlwind, such a sexy female smart. uh, dangerous whirlwinds swirl around standing men, and that's it. it's a whirlpool around a woman, spinning spinning. it seems to me that it is necessary to say why this whirlpool appears plotly. in general, vladimir is olga's husband, and olga begins to meet with his brother sergei , the people's commissar. uh, then she starts an affair with dokuchaev. we can probably designate as a merchant. he is such a nep man, a merchant, in general, a person who makes good money in the war and does some kind

of fraud. and now olga can be said there captures almost every man she meets er and in some way. in general , vladimir perceives the whole story. he, uh, patiently endures everything, he adores olga, and probably this is some kind of unusual family relationship, and maybe the novel is easy to read precisely because it still exists, uh, some kind of plot ratio, and we are following. what will happen to them, how they develop such a relationship, what will happen to olga well , of course, always modern in fact, if you turn to contemporary art , sex violence sells well, and then there is sex violence. but speaking, it's very simple and banal, but, but it seems to me, she's very complex, she's also complicated for herself. she is interesting and smart. this is olga , so maybe she is attractive to men. yeah well, you know, no one likes good girls

by and large, everyone loves women with a beater, it's only a woman with a beater. you never know what to expect from her and in what second she will either love you or shoot you. yes, for herself, that she, uh, herself does not know what to expect from herself the whole novel to the pig about how olga is trying, but to realize herself in the post-revolutionary world in these terrible events, and she is trying to understand, and what kind of man she wants to be trying to understand. and what should she do in life, but she is trying to find some kind of fate. yes, of course, there are wonderful habits there, when things are already coming to an end, and vladimir speaks, and olga well, do something, yes, maybe in a movie yes, you want to act? and she, she says, does not want to go to the cinema. here are better pictures, but it's not very interesting the child's parents says. puppies

i had a premium puppy. yes, and they are cute. yes, a few months, until they start to shit. yes, well, everything is in this pose. this is also a provocation. this does not mean that maybe she would have wanted something. it seems to me that she provokes both herself and around those people who come across this all the time a provocation, when a person by himself restless. and it seems to me that the main problem that is itself is restless. is it possible to imagine her somewhere, and at a serious job, and her in the family circle, so that he has children. she didn’t last long, that’s the problem, when no one would have held on for a long time, so he said, footballs flew heads, alex please tell me, is this an autobiographical novel or can it be written off from life, that is, where maringov took the texture material was generally large yes, if you look at the literature. togo

time here, in my opinion, lilia yuryevna brik is easily guessed as olga yes , who knew all literary moscow and not only all literary moscow, russia yes the girl who drove vladimir mayakovsky crazy and don’t touch. yes, but this is the story in cynics, when e olga cheats for the first time on vladimir yes comes home late at night. i replaced what vladimir ivan says yes, and the exact same episode was in my life, and lily brit and osipov had it at the very beginning of their relationship. if we talk about some kind of headlight, and there is a great critic. and culturologist aleksey yuryevich lavrov yes, even then we did a collection of works in the ring in the thirteenth year, and he wrote a provocative article for this collection of works. where does it mean to say that vladimir and olga are their relationship. these are peculiar applications of the marings themselves. and