and my colleague anthony ryabchikova e. today we are talking with leonid yarmolnik, our guest. i am very pleased thank you. now, if you now look at it is difficult to be with god and what is it? this is social criticism - this is hmm radical statements. artistic. how do we feel about the film today? yes, how to interpret it? how, how, how, in general, maybe a grandson, you will explain or are explaining now what this movie is about, because in a few years. yes, 3 hours can be enough of such a spectacle overflowing with everyday details, and sometimes it is very divided pleasant. but how it is, that is, it’s better to let it through yourself, of course, in the cinema hall they are on a small screen, because a lot will be lost, but still, if the grandchildren are such pedagogists who believe that the whole class there or the whole course needs to be shown this picture. then i will be happy, because you are really right, you need to watch a movie in the cinema hall

, to be near, because when you look in the hall nearby, then you are insured against the fact that you will not understand or feel something, because what is the breath of the hall. and if you are distracted or do not understand something, then those sitting nearby and in general the breath of the hall helps you. eh, how to understand everything and feel everything. and i think it's hard to be a god to watch in fact, here, if in three words, i hope no one thinks this is stupid eh? this movie should be watched, you need to feel and understand and draw conclusions in order not to step on the same rake. and quite simply because of the fact that behind the grays it is necessary that this is in general the history of mankind and different people. somebody rushes to power. someone to uh money gold

and so on and so forth. some people die for love. someone wants to save peoples and civilizations. and of course , only very very talented people can do it and cope with it. and, of course, uh, one should strive to be such people. and so this is basically, well, this is the old truth, yes, that is, history develops in a spiral in a spiral, and uh, and there is always a lot of similar things, but i really would not want this spiral. this was the ring. it looks like this in 23:40-50 years. and in people what a bad memory.

now i’m talking more, as it were, about the history of events that either move humanity forward or vice versa, uh, tend to destroy humanity, the topic is relatively almost today’s, so today i think that this is what we are talking about now in connection with herman’s painting - this is even more important and topical unlucky, because i didn’t spend most of my life with alekseevich german, but i got. e. well, first of all, uh, over the years i've been shooting since i was 14, but over the years i understood. i could never even imagine imagine that someday german will be interested in me but over the years. i realized that he was always filming. in their most remarkable pictures, these have always been artists. how about comedians. this is rolan bykov , this is vladimir nikolin. this is andrey mironov, and when it came to me, i still didn’t connect it, then he, uh, and shutov makes tragedians and does. eh, because probably.

artists with such charisma, causing, uh , the sympathy of the audience, when these people break down in the frame, when they are completely different , unusual for him, but if possible, then to express it was of interest to him all his life, and he was his main principle, the second principle was that, and he repeated me many times not because i did not obey. he says forget everything. what have you been taught. he hated it when an artist plays an artist must live in the frame, that is, uh, the reaction, yours should be. er, in this case, i'm playing the scent. i still had to react. like lenya is a mollnik. at the same time, we had discrepancies with them in terms of the male attitude to those events that sometimes, when we drank beer. he said, in general, he says, you do not play room. you play me when i'm young. that's it, there is this autobiography

of some kind absolutely. at the same time, he spoke. so dear to him. this work so many years. uh, i nurtured it , and i'm sure you, as specialists, know that it began in 1968 and beyond the events. it was closed, then in the eighties. here it is at some point. uh, when i asked him. and that's why i why? well, no matter how surprising, he says, well, i saw you on tv. you i gave vodka to someone, and i literally liked it. that's all the time scoffed that i was such an artist. well, on purpose, he is generally such an irritant provocateur. and as soon as you start to get angry or prove something , he is most interested in it, because at this moment you need to be able to watch a real movie. this is the same education of the taste of culture, like many other things, if a person was taught to read books, parents made it even more difficult today, but everything in the computer in these iphones, this is not

immersion. this is generally how it should be forced children to read books should be shown them a good movie. and if you can say today, then more russian cinema of soviet cinema. and i'm not against showing the classics of american cinema, but first of all, what will grow up here on this earth. well, we are actually talking about this in the framework of our podcast in each issue there, i remind you that it was a podcast of einstein's witnesses. and i am the previous stanislav dzinsky, my colleague, natalya ryabchikova, and we are talking about this podcast about russian cinema and why in general it’s worth watching it today and how much pleasure you get from it, if it was a non-germanic guest who was already visiting. thank you very much for coming and telling a lot of interesting things. all the best, goodbye. hello this is

a podcast of the psyche. my name is natalya loseva. i am a journalist and together with my co-host clinical psychologist , ph.d. in psychology, mikhail, we are writing a book of your judges. each chapter of this book is a huge great story . mother of three children tatyana asoyan of these same children, in fact lost tatyana i understand that your husband actually took your three children.

and he did everything so that you could not physically communicate with them in any way, despite even the decision of the court so, yes, hello natalia, almost like that. actually, i came here to ask for help in the first place and tell my story, because i was faced with such a thing as parental alienation syndrome, when, after the separation of two adults, mom and dad completely deprive one of the parents. uh, the second parent of communication with children and any participation in them life. let's take a look at the story first. why didn't you come right away? for this alienated parent syndrome, something happened to the stagnant parents. yes, of course, it took a lot of time to reach this concept and to realize this situation, and he deprived you of your children. ah, under the pretext of a vacation after a divorce that took place literally 2 weeks after our divorce. he suddenly announced that he and their children, our nannies, were going

on vacation to sochi. and for me it was a complete surprise. i at that moment suddenly i ended up in the hospital and couldn't do anything about it. and, accordingly, they put me before the fact, not informing them of any dates when they would return. a few days passed, and he wrote a message that we were now going to visit relatives. to armenia to yerevan to rest until the end of summer. it was the middle of july, he comes from yerevan. yes, he comes from the children of russian citizenship. in children. at that time, there was only russian citizenship. yes , it was summer. i then successfully tried to find a job, because for almost all 11 years i was engaged in family and home, but was with children. generally. it is no longer a secret, truly his ex-spouse. i work left it so happened that we are

your children. yes, these are my children. this is when the photo is one of the most recent photos. here she is at 21. you haven't seen them since july, 21. i last saw them in november of the twenty-first year. literally, when i came to yerevan twice for half an hour. approximately this is just in august, when i wanted to pick them up, when they were in yerevan and so you find out that your children are your husband’s relatives from distant relatives. of course, we all talked very often there every summer , we came there for a few weeks on vacation. and hmm, i thought, well, yes, indeed, the situation was extremely tense. extremely acute for everyone and they are from dad. they were with our nanny, who appeared already, but with the advent of the third

child. prior to that, i was fully engaged with the children. at the end of august was the birthday of robert's middle son, and i came to congratulate him and made a surprise for everyone. they didn't know that i was coming, they were going to celebrate with our grandmothers, a birthday in the village. and i was well received. they were surprised. they knew that we had an acute situation, that we were divorced. and that this decision was extremely difficult for me. i was the initiator of this divorce. you were delighted, and they were delighted, but then i felt tired daughters, some of them were such a numbness and sound. although we then talked , we called up on video very often all this month and then relatives said that as soon as we ended our conversations on this i started crying and saying that i want to go home to my mother. but, that is, from her there was

feedback, it was warm. and as as if we were apart, and it must be added that we never parted with them. before. that is, i was always with the children, that is, i parted with him, only to go to the maternity hospital and the parents of the next child, so for us, in principle, there was separation even that month. well, a very stressful and not atypical situation. i understand correctly that you, too, were never allowed to pick up children to moscow to their homeland to the city in which you live, in which you are alive want all the details to guide the children at the end of august to go to school. eh, and the husband gave. he said that the children would never leave here. but it was said in our hearts, it was such a rather emotional situation and hmm well, in fact, i really couldn’t take it away, because all the documents were hidden,

it was clear to him that he wouldn’t give them back. and i had to return to moscow in order to sue to determine the place of residence of the children. i didn't want to do this until the very end. i really wanted to make a deal. yes, in the end you got a court order, but in the end i received a court decision only hmm recently in this in this, what is said, at the moment my claims are denied. despite the fact that the children were not interviewed by the court, and hmm, my husband refused to transport them to the court. i explain this by the fact that he is afraid that i will steal them and take them away, and he never said them again. here are these wonderful people who make decisions that you cannot, as a mother of your three children. and if litigation involves children, naturally, there, uh, there is a third party. these are bodies, guardianship bodies, guardianships must make their own decision.

about this whole situation, it is based solely on a survey of older children who have reached the age of 10 and were told that they wanted to live with their father. they didn’t say anything to the russian court and the specialists, there is a certain document, e.g., from the guardianship authorities of the city and yerevan, but this was not a so-called survey in accordance with all the rules, but the guardianship authorities came to look, of course, how they live and where they live. here are the conditions how they live there. well, everything suited them and, accordingly, there, in some kind of conditionally private conversation, hmm, the children said that he was fine there, they were fine with their dad , it’s true that even during the marriage, the spouse offered you to sign some kind of paper with abandoned children. well, when it was already clear that the derivative is getting divorced. yes, there

were some. words that i'm afraid that you will never let me communicate with them. although , of course, i didn’t have such thoughts, we yes, we decided to do this so that he could decide to communicate. i want to be a guardian children. i did not understand what this meant and such terminology is better, as for, of course, mom and dad do not exist. well, of course, i refused to sign any papers, because it was clear that at that time they were already against me there, probably on the advice of his lawyers, and there was such a rather serious even pr company unleashed , one might say, but a well-known pr and apparently, of course, a professional, so tatiana tell me, where is he now? uh, i don't know where he is now about the kids where i don't know where they are are, and he refuses

to tell me. and you don't even communicate by video call now. if i could communicate via video link, i would be the happiest person, and somehow there are some relatives there, he has sisters, brothers, aunts , uncles to a large armenian family. we have such a situation that my husband ’s mother did not become very early, he would be very small and his father, unfortunately, has also been gone for a long time. e alive from close relatives. he has only his own older sister, and she supported me in this story and won. yes she supported me, and hmm and they ended the relationship. he calls her my ex-sister. i express my deepest sympathy and understanding to you directly, and i don’t know, natalya, how emotionally all this resonates with you. this is very bitter very logical. bitter that i am now, i will try not to cry in the frame. sorry but

it's true. well, unfortunately, we psychologists cannot afford this bitterness. we still work on our emotional state so as not to burn out. yes, well, but ordinary people, of course, like this, uh, undoubtedly this they feel, but let's try to do something with this both at the level of your emotional state and at the level of your possible further behavior, but for this let's still, um, since we have a massive transmission. yes, we are now having an individual session, let's analyze some mistakes that you made not in the sense to scold you. and in the sense that women who could be in a similar situation now, so that they do not repeat them, yes, do you have any opinion? what mistake? you have made a major mistake. it was believing completely your spouse to trust him. you see, as soon as these

words appeared from him. i'm afraid you won't let me talk to the kids. here it is very important, dear friends, to such phrases. even maybe the closest people at the moment listen, yes and ah, you know one important thing, what do people most often conclude about others by themselves? therefore, if someone tells you that i am afraid that you will not let me see my children, most likely, he is talking about himself, yes, that you understand normally for him, i am afraid that you are with me steal an apartment, listen to everything. now, if this is not norm for you. and someone even the closest one tells you about it, draw your own conclusions. well, this is also not one hundred percent, as it were, an indicator, yes, but you can already think in this direction, that is, in fact, tatyana should not be embarrassed, well, or another woman who finds herself in such a situation. that's when to run and do. uh,

this travel ban, of course, yes, he is from another country. he can lead the children to defend themselves, as much as possible, that is. wow. hmm . here's a story. and now he spits on feelings for your children. okay, your feelings, he pecks, well, it happens. but he spits on the feelings of his children. he is now saying, children do not want to communicate with you. they don't even call you mom. maybe there is some processing going on. it's for god's sake. so it is again. even if they say they don't want this is a consequence of the processing. yes, that is, everything is done to break the child, that is, this person has clearly not read any book, even about raising children. yes, he doesn't care. only on your ego, your position, which in this case may be, you are a long-term confrontation, yes,

painful, yes, uh, time-consuming money. and this is a very important idea, right? and most likely, this will end when your children can buy a plane ticket for themselves and fly to you to look at you and check. what is the truth of what they have put into this head and it will not necessarily happen when they are 18 years old. it could happen much sooner. but in the end, you are preparing for this particular development of the situation. prepare legally. get ready emotionally. you came here. this is very correct. for me. it was very hard. i'm generally hard. it is natural to talk about such things and it is absolutely not my task to tell that someone in this story is bad, someone is good. i'm talking about the residual facts

that i'm, well, honestly, i'm completely broken and despite the fact that i go to work every day. i smile at broken lives, and this is important, because when you say that you are completely broken, you begin to feel that way. you are not completely broken at you enough strength. by the way, the fact that you quit your job at the request, most likely of your spouse and it is likely that you broke off a significant number of social ties while you were married at the request of your spouse or as a result of his actions. this is also a big mistake. here again, three children here can, a completely understandable situation. no agreed. you can do it normally, but it's better not to do it. this is a psychic clue. my name is natalya loseva, a journalist, my co-host is a candidate of psychological sciences, a clinical psychologist. mikhail khors we are discussing a rather bitter difficult situation for our heroine tatyana, who

is deprived of the opportunity to communicate with her three children. why do men do? so? it's clear that it's you who said it's his according to you? why what is the nature of men we know. i think that most of these cases are still on the part of women, most often in our country, yes, what kind of fears of their complexes are guided by parents when, like this , without looking back i don’t think about the consequences, without thinking about how the situation in the future will affect these children. here they enter into this war, that, well, firstly, here the word will sound again, which we have already used the word psychopathy more than once in our program. there is a special category of people in a certain sense hmm flawed. these are people for whom their ego is more important than everything else and as a result they are ready to beat. to break, to destroy , to harm others. even very close by

blood, for example, people have psychopathy, maybe organic, but most often it’s my practice is psychopathy. it's still social, when people are taught like this, in general. um, if it's a disease, why can't it be an argument in court, because it's unlikely that we can diagnose him, yes, but the court takes into account, only diagnoses. here, but here's what, to be honest, i don't see in you. hmm and what i think is, uh, playing against you in your behavior. now it is your outer peace. you understand, to reveal that a universal human tragedy has occurred. and you didn't even shed a tear for us here. maybe this the most mournful insensitivity that happens already when all the resources are spent. no, i did . i saw a tear well up when you looked at the photo. i can't look at baby pictures

what's more, i can't see just kids on the streets or if i hear a baby crying, that's the reaction that i couldn't give, yes, give up the idea that you must be strong and unemotional. and yet the emotion is real. you can't play here. no, somewhere to prove unconditionally on tv shows whether where you came from you need to deploy your a pr company so that this citizen here in russia can’t show his nose to do business, pr to create something else there, so that like every one of his business here, surely he has some kind of business, maybe you understand that people don’t want to do business with them, without emotions, it’s working. and you can't do this without emotions. rationally like this, yes, it's very adult. yes, i respect you very much for this, but show people your emotions already,

maybe, yes, if you only do this, you will suffer from this, but reasonable some share of sensuality. this one here, to call, because by and large, because you came and told, all the people sat. here, i put myself in the place of the spectator. yes, he sat for such a mm, what a strong woman. well, nothing, she will continue to live so strongly. are you trying to come to an agreement, or do you not feel the strength in yourself, do you set yourself up for defeat in advance , do not believe in victory why are our forces not equal? i do not have such resources , there is no such influence as we are his wife. what pro? what resources are you talking about soulful, probably about material things, including about him , a rather influential person was in russia and now i want him for his business. well , what do you know, she doesn’t work in russia , as far as i know, no, if he is influential in

russia and you live in russia, but you are setting up an emotional company. it seems that he closed russia for himself, yes, he is one of those people who suffer from it, he is most likely one of those people who left the country, and they earn money here. looks like i don't know it at all. now i i want to sincerely agree, because children suffer first of all. this is not some tactical game to fool him. i understand that children live for 2 years in some kind of formed environment. perhaps, i hope a good comfortable, but financially comfortable among. first of all, there can be no comfort for children if they do not see their mother, and if their mother, and their mother is constantly there, haet and uh, cannot. well, i know that they have three meals a day, for sure they have eaten, they have e-education of education. yes, that's some kind of life they have uh, i

i think it's definitely guaranteed. and how old was he when he lost his mother with you, and two or two years a little more , that is, he is generally at the age when children remember themselves, he is already, but he doesn’t remember his mother, it turns out that way, but this is a big tragedy for any person and mikhail in this. might be the key to his behavior, because he might be thinking that now. well, i grew up without a mother, and they will survive. it's ok. and despite the fact that this is such, uh, psychopathy, there is this narcissism there. i'm good. which increased? look here. how wonderful it means yes it means and they will grow up good, but dear dear ayaya, saiyan, you are causing great trauma to your children by this , very, very much, please let them see their mother. don't torture your own children. yes, you can break them , beat them, bend them, but by persuading yourself

that it will be better for them, it will not be better for them. and by the way, when you say that they live there fed with toys in comfort? and to add a word i hope that this is far from a fact, there is no confirmation yet in question, it’s not so, it’s just that his own sister, people say, yes, sister-in-law snake head, and suddenly she takes off his position in this situation. she knows something. she knows something. this is not without reason, but i have another question for you. yes? do you have anything else in life besides working for a lawyer? and the emotions that all go into waiting for the moment when you meet with the children questions for you and a question for mikhail and how is it right? do you need to be so focused now or do you still need to live

the other part of your life, if you have a man, if you friends don't have any relationship for sure, i have a couple of close friends, there are, uh, a lot of great co-workers who have become my friends are also close enough to support me. but er, yes, absolutely all my strength all my thoughts are daily. they are always with me, i always think latently that i am without children, but i don’t know if this is right or not. but now i may be, as mikhail rightly said about it so calmly , but now, well, i don’t have a leg. yes, this is such a fact, yes, here i am a little invalid, but why are you putting forward the idea of ​​getting married to have children for yourself, in no case instead of these, in no case , only so that, god forbid, you don’t think about it, but as a fulcrum, like

some kind of here. well, well, some kind of clearance yours is such a difficult life today mikhail maybe i'm wrong. i, for example, here, well, here, i put you in your place. i would at least go out there once a week if possible to the armenian embassy yes with a poster and to do it what, well, somehow, well, why is our public about this is silent, you need to raise this storm yourself, and you keep thinking that you should give up this idea. i want, to be honest, to throw out this white flag and say, all of us have already messed up enough firewood, a lot has been done, but monstrous deeds. eh, for the sake of the children, what kind of actions of the complex side, what monsters? actions have been taken. when i said this now, i had in mind, in principle, the situation in which children are without a mother, and this naturally affects their development and mental state. what

hmm well i don't know what i was i was very jealous, for example, excellent your jealousy. you need to deprive you of communication with children, of course, there is still such a victim complex. yes, lived somehow you blame yourself, yes, blame yourself. yes , mutuality, of course, i definitely blame myself that your three children were taken away by deceit. i think that in general, in principle, both are to blame, but probably yes. i, too, somehow do myself wrong. your ex-husband is a professional, i look like a pr man and probably a manipulator, like all psychopaths. they are just wonderful manipulators and a very good psychologist. here a rare case when mikhail khors and i are generally on the same position from the point of view of science from the point of view of residence, who drove it into your head that you are to blame?

what did you beat the children in? offended not fed, well , of course not. what is your fault that you were deprived of the right to communicate, with the children you gave birth to , breast-fed, abandoned your career? we spent every minute of our time with them , with the exception of going to the hospital. and they completely presented themselves as a mother to the fate of their children. what are you to blame, because michael now very accurately actually with the lock something opened. you are guilty before us. it is important to distinguish here. yes, distinguish between two concepts. concept. first, my situation is a consequence of some of my actions. yes , you did indeed make some mistakes. we have analyzed some of them, that is, the responsibility for this, of course, is friends. but guilt is something else. responsibility does not destroy

personality, but guilt does. guilt is a consequence of the erroneous opinion that we in our past tatyana could behave otherwise than they were led and this is a very common cognitive error. this is not so perfect, because at every moment in time we act as we are allowed by certain opportunities and limitations that exist at that moment, and not only external, but also internal and most often , by the way, inside, so at that moment you were limited by your belief that your spouse would not behave this way. um, well, some humanistic values ​​that you thought were common to all people. are you overly jealous? perhaps what you've been hammered into

head, what is it, what is it, yes, like, yes, everyone is to blame. this, by the way, is again a common manipulation, just such a psychopathic one, it’s all your fault. and i'm here, so white and beautiful fluffy. that's why at that moment you couldn't hang yourself differently. could not, but in the future you can behave differently after working through those limiting beliefs that you had at that time? for example, that you yourself are to blame. no, not guilty. yes, you are responsible for these actions. here is what you are doing now then there is the emotional and physical labor that you are now doing. uh, this is, uh, your responsibility, by the way, the word labor and the word suffering have the same root, yes, that is , when we suffer emotionally, we do personal mental work, but in order to work physically we need strength. do you

merge these forces of personality strength of willpower into your negativity in relation to yourself? yeah , your feeling that you are to blame, that you are bad, that you did something badly wrong there, that you could have behaved differently no, no could. in the past no everything is closed, but in the future you can i really want this, that's why i'm here too, because i want to understand how i should act and how not to fall into this situation. blow this story again. show your true emotions everywhere. try this mask, which can be either protective or you think it ’s right, at least sometimes take it off and show people that you are a person, that you are hurting. well, it's a scientific quality. to be honest , i needed it. all this time, what was it? now learn a little open up and show your pain to people. it is important that they want to help you.