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tv   PODKAST  1TV  August 17, 2023 1:50am-2:31am MSK

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it is possible to prevent the disease if you want to know. here it is, but it's important to know, because in this case it's a simple disease, because it can be prevented by diet. you are not you the problem is that you don't cure a lot of the diseases or predispositions that come up as a result. here is a massive analysis, full of genomic data, they are not the majority almost all of them are not like phenylketonuria. in the sense that there is no valuable advice on what you should not do. well, apart from smoking and drinking. uh, well, and so on, it is impossible to give. well , for some reason, follow more, maybe, yes, but let's still touch on this one. an ethically complex topic like genome editing is about to be born. i have a conditional child. you 've looked at its genome and compared it to your giant propensity base, it has. i don't know why it's not good. i don’t know about gastritis, but gastritis, you can live with gastritis. let's also live with schizophrenia and even be very talented, in my opinion,
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somehow, well, well, yes, let him have a tendency. let not inclination. let this the child will break and he will have a severe genetic disease. so let's sharpen it, yes, the guys have already developed, yes , that is, she already doesn’t go to kindergarten there, because as a rule, most of these types of diseases manifest themselves so early that everything happens before kindergarten . we saw what he has. god forbid , of course, there is some kind of lyrical disease for anyone. can we tweak it somehow? well, to eliminate this disease. you know when it's too late to drink borjomi, so in this case, whatever was here if it's a problem, and this kind of disease that you're talking about, they are usually born, that is, they come from parents. come on, when parents are a carrier, uh, of some unfortunate version of a gene and the other gene is normal. we are all dubbed. we have these 6 billion letters three from dad three from mom and dad and mom give us the same set of genes with prints, but their own. so we each have
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two. and everyone's gene. well, we give children one by one such a special process. here e the essential thing is that if dad was a carrier of a certain unfortunate mutation in one genius, but he didn’t know about it, because the other gene was normal and mom was the same as who, according to the law, is a cop or as she teaches at school. it seems to me that it still teaches that every fourth child in such a marriage will receive two unsuccessful variants of the same gene, and this can lead, as it were, to very serious consequences. here, in principle, at the level of in vitro fertilization. it is possible to solve this problem in this way, that is, it is possible not any embryo can be allowed to develop, but only one that does not contain a double copy of the use. a double corrupted copy of the gene can be done, but one can imagine that for some reason this cannot be done, and then you just have to admit that all the cells that have grown from this organism that has grown from this embryo will be affected and, probably, will be early death. therefore, if
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it has already come to the point that the child was born to subordinate all these cells is completely impossible, then we come to embryonic editing, when you should be essentially at the level of already fertilized eggs. you could say stop before we give it all to mom. we'll tweak it a bit here now, and here are these two bad versions of the gene from the correct norm, but there are, uh, a whole series of, uh, ethical prohibitions and one person who allegedly made such a work of hizanku such a chinese scientist. well , he spent the whole pandemic in prison, but now he seems to be out, if a person has already been born, to make it not very difficult, because to fix everything in all cells. hard. eat certain cases of some specific, for example, blood diseases, when this can be done. the fact is that our blood is like that. a little it is very cool, arranged. we have marrow in our large hollow bones. there are hematopoietic cells. they are constantly dividing, dividing, dividing, and from there, when they divide, blood cells are released into the blood. well, for example, red herbal blood cells are white, and they work there
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for another week and then they are thrown out. they are so disposable. that is, we have here bones, there is a motor that constantly produces blood cells throughout our lives. but sometimes the problem of blood cancer arises, when here the stem cells that are in the bones change in some way. well, there are problems. there was blood and something else. now, and now it's being treated, the next way you take this poor man. do you irradiate it or use radiation there or use chemotherapy to kill all rapidly dividing cells in uh, bone marrow in them really kill, and then look for, for example, first look for a compatible donor for him. maybe a relative, maybe not at all familiar. a person who, according to some immological properties, is compatible with this person, in order to transplant blood cells after irradiation, healthy, hematopoietic, or rather cells. well, hope that everything will be fine, that they will take root, these cells die a lot of people, because they did not find a donor
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on time or just a donor. no. so big problem. since many blood diseases are genetic in nature, the genetic nature of this, it is clear the change in dna in which place is responsible for this disease, then here genetic editing will definitely help and is already helping, namely, you take, but a bone marrow biopsy from a sick person. you know why he is sick, he has such and such a mutation, you have these cells in a test tube in a laboratory with the help of gene editing. once again, there is such a method, you change it so that the position, that is , the place in the dna that is responsible for the disease, becomes normal. yes, after that you burn this person exactly the same way with radiation and do chemotherapy to kill all diseased cells in the bone marrow, and then you give him his own cells, but a little bit better, the problem of immunity is solved and it works. well, after all, imagine a polyclinic of the distant future, they read all
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the genomes in general, not 100,000 from all, but 43 million. or how many of us russians there are, they put together a large database and processed it. i came to the clinic. here's what's happening. these are the things that can appear in a hospital in a polyclinic, which is fundamentally different from modern medicine about prescribing drugs. this will happen according to your genetics, that is, the doctor will look not only at your medical history to select the optimal method for your treatment, but he will also look at your genome on the computer. naturally, yes , and he will receive information about which medicine will work best for you, the doctor, and he can look at your genome, uh, for example, uh , and make you some personal recommendations regarding. so we began to say what to do, but not the finishes of nuria. well, some pretty specific lifestyle changes that will allow you to reduce
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the occurrence of certain diseases in a significant way. you yourself will be aware of the fact that you have some risks or carriers, which apparently will allow you to plan your family if you wish. if you and your partner are also aware of your risks, if you want, for example , to make sure that your children are, uh, healthy or at least, you should know that you may have problems of this kind, look, i see, that disease and prone to disease is somehow related to the fact what is written in the genome, and the ability to propensity for the profession of intelligence. somehow you can read uh, based on our dna i know it's been 100 years on this. this is especially britain here scientific wars. to what extent is our mind determined by genes? what medium ah, that's 6 million, tell me is it a lot or a little? what do you think, well, after all, let's imagine thoughts worth 6 billion. this is
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a thousand times more letters than there are letters in two volumes of war and peace. well, everything, probably, the school overcame war and peace, but now let's imagine a thousand of these pieces. this is not a meeting. lion nikolaevich is much more. this is our genetic information. here in this genetic information. your my genome is sketched more or less randomly 6 million changes each of which yes does not make us worse or better, but together they determine our genetic personality , it turns out that some complex traits. well , for example, intelligence, if we consider that in order to be, firstly, a sign needs to be measured, what is intelligence. british scientists mentioned intelligence, they really measure it with the help of this iq test is available. to make peace with the test is actually measured, rather the ability. u take an iq test, not intelligence in general, uh some uh hmm i don't know an african who lived 20,000 years ago in the savannah and survived there
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despite all these big cats. he was quite an intelligent person in the sense that he could survive at all. we hardly survived there with you. yes, that is, one cannot say that he did not possess any intellect. this is all such a measure that is difficult to understand, this is not phoenician-tonuria. this is a difficult sign. and this sign, to some extent, probably, can be genetically mediated by these changes, but each influence, the influence of each change, can be tiny , very small, but all together. this somehow leads to some kind of visible change with genetics, like there is something that is responsible for this. there are intelligence genes. no, here's iq, uh, there are tests, they measure something, yes, if it is absolutely accurately shown that and what time in e, over 10 years, on average, the iq level increases by approximately five points. well, it's unlikely that we're getting smarter that fast, yes, well just here on the blatykalis tests to pass. well, we eat well. here. well, it's the
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flynn effect that is still incomprehensible. where does it come from? why do we know how, and then we move on, in general, for some reason, very many, but there is such a concept of consumer genetics, you know ostap bender said that there are 100 or how many he knew about honest ways. and the topic of money among the population. there is also consumer genetics. here, many are beginning to be interested in the gene of beauty genes, beauty and the ability to either tweak them at home, or pass them on to your children, and so on . it always seems to me that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder beauty is, well, a historical phenomenon, it depends on the society in which you live, it generally depends on a million different things it does not exist in the sense that it cannot be objectively measured, but still with intelligence. if you take not a specific individual, they changed you to take, for example, this is it. no no data that within the ethnic groups there are, er, reliable changes in the first place, intelligence. we must still measure, if we are talking about intelligence, as measured as an iq test there, of course, and those
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countries in which iq is measured on average will probably show relatively and are measured for quite a long time higher rates than those countries in which iq is not measured but for the same reasons. for example, you can take and say that it is intellectually connected. well, for example, with the ability to speak dry, but everything else is not, and it turns out that people who live somewhere on the territory. somalia, they are extremely advanced in this regard. these are all bad things, because here, always in these kinds of questions, when people were doing this, evgenia didn’t just appear, and then, thank god , it disappeared, as a rule, always, it turns out that when asking these kinds of questions the one who sets them has already placed himself at the top of the food pyramid from the very beginning and puts the rest of everyone in a new and lose-lose situation. let's have the last question your gnome is ready to give for sequencing, not only ready. i gave it away the thing is, but uh, here's our project suggests that a significant portion of 100,000
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genomes is made for employees and their families, but as i run an organization that is fully funded, it is clear that i am among the very first of my genome. well, yes, i determined, what is the problem here? that is, in principle, i can simply do this in any private company, which there are some in russia, but by doing so i also filled the base. i don't want to think that this is 100,000 plus. i'm among these hundred thousand. i need to eat there. say that my result is specific for the entertainment component. we have us both in quality. thanks to our volunteers, we give them. we call it a genetic portrait, where we are on thirty popular traits, but oh we give, well , some predictions and some popular science information, because people need to be informed about all this, we did not talk about it, well, informing people about what it is, what it is for, and so on. it seems to me very important here after i received my specific prediction. i started to think that i was doing
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something not the same, something i have experienced. you know, such phantom geneticists, genetics, the corrupt girl of capitalism, and so on , what they said there, but i was very offended by it personally, because i had one of these thirty signs, and about alcohol. there is a gene encoding a protein enzyme that breaks down alcohol. well , alcohol, but we have a current in the blood and this leads to the formation of aldehydes, which there are hangovers of intoxication, well, all sorts of unpleasant effects. so it was written to me by our own informatics employees, who analyzed it and which created. this is our genetic portrait of all the texts that i have. uh, genetic, i've been diagnosed with a genetic alcohol intolerance and as a recommendation. and it was suggested to me, uh, to drink little to drink rarely. that is, you are ready. here, right here under the camera , tell what you have in your genes and the chuvash. uh, look, the genome of each of
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us is pretty meaningless, unless you compare with someone, we have, uh, a genetic profile that we give to all of our volunteers. and in this case i volunteer who contains. well, the ability to absorb lactose has something to do with age-related skin aging, because well , light-induced aging is in general, really strongly determined by genes, and bean tolerance is gluten. wait faster than i was not so interested. i looked at important things. and how old are you in general, if it's not a secret, i'm 55 years old. yeah, but they won’t tell you that it still works with genes. here are some things related to vitamins. well, the origin. we also do about the origin. here you are ready right here under camera to tell who's here, well, we have the fact that the quality of the origin of the definition is very dependent on the database. here, i will give an example. i have a researcher who is actually the head of the very center where they are made, where devices work and
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are controlled and dna sequences are determined, and he worked in the uk some time ago and passed a genetic test there . and the uk, where all this activity is very well developed for the indigenous people of the british isles. for each specific person. you can determine its origin. well, or there from different ones up to the county, and sometimes even better in the case of this particular person. well, who is a russian, he is the most smolensk , he was told on this map that you are from eurasia , so we cannot do this kind of work until we are full and fill our base. so we did a much simpler analysis called this haplogroup, relatively speaking, this inheritance looks like mithandral dna, which is transmitted only by maternal lines and you can define yours. those people you look like in terms of mitochondrial dna or chromosome play , that's, well, good news. it was
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written there that my haplogroup is the same as about benjamin franklin but on the other hand. it was written there that, generally speaking , most people from the t3 of this group are samoyeds themselves, who live in the very north of finland. well, some kind of nonsense. thank you very much. thanks for the interesting conversation. thank you for your genome, which you have included in the common all-russian database. it's a pity that he not possible, but may be the next stage, when there will be a million genomes. i am sure that this initiative will develop 100.000. yes, a drop in the sea. here i would like to say again that what we are doing now is the basis, the core for the development of the future, there is simply not a single player in russia now who could have such a snowy effect. coma , someone has to make the first snowball, thank god for this. well, if anything, i solemnly promise that i am ready to donate my genome to science as soon as possible and there is nothing wrong with that. thanks a lot you had a podcast. schrödinger, i am its presenter grigory trasevich and co-host the cat bari, and our today's guest is doctor of biological sciences
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professor konstantin serinov hello, my name is dmitry bag. i'm the host of a literary podcast with a wonderful title. let them not speak, let them read. well, there is some kind of order, an imperative, and you can’t do without it , because time is such that the visual principle competes for our free time , internet music competes, and so on and so forth, but still it is necessary to consider, therefore, this paphos of the order is always with us , as it was in chekhov's chaika, remember this exclamation, people are lions, eagles, partridges, here are people, lions, eagles, partridges, all living creatures. we address this call to read, read with
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pleasure today. and i address this call to you dear interlocutors on the other side of the screen, together with e. my guest today is a writer, translator , editor-in-chief of the journal of foreign literature alexander yakovlevich chervyakand, hello alexander yakovlevich good evening, you are passing by in our podcast under the heading of the literary profession, after all, your main bread is literary translation. or maybe i 'm wrong, yes, well, literary translation. except for what this literary translation has to do, it's a matter of change. oh, classes at the russian state humanitarian university, where i have been a member for more than 30 years, it’s scary to say they have been teaching there at the russian state humanitarian universities, where yes alexander yakovlevich teaches. what courses? well, i have, uh, a course in literary translation, there are courses in
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foreign literature of different times american literature after 45 years of english victorian literature and a course of lectures that are named solemnly from ethics and genres. foreign literature, that is , this is a special course, what is it called? like, when it is clear, then you have to change the literary translation of foreign literature by the magazine. although here, in general, betrayal does not smell, because we actually do this magazines, but he's a magazine. he does not print, only he prints me many people this is not a writer's diary. yes, the translator's diary. and here it already has to be so many even author editor. how many rows are there, but, well, the last uh, for almost 15 years, we have to change the literary translation. here with such books as literary biographies. it somehow
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happened in a very strange way in 2011. i published my first book. completely unaware that i can even be ready and love writing a series, right? well, i really liked it, let's talk about it. well, let 's try to start over as it often happens. it is very interesting to me. uh, to understand how people come to their main occupation. how how it happened? eh, have you seen yourself in your dreams as an interpreter already? uh, junior high, or did it happen? suddenly, how it all happened, you know , it's hard to say from what it all uh, resulted. uh, how it happened, but i do remember. in our school e, not the most wise school, there was german and we were given to translate. uh, small texts you had the main german example yes or no, low, i had german. he was
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very weak at this school. then i even had to study german with a teacher language. uh, and we were given small texts and i got a text about oil production, beautifully small texts. uh, four or five lines is a production theme. yes, ivanov, something like this, uh, something like that, but actually, it wasn’t i who got the text, but our whole class and our group, and i was amazed that everyone handed in their translation. and i continued to sit and swap words. apparently i was something the same class, but i don’t know. i thought it was some seventh or eighth grade. that's because i somehow liked it, then after a while. i translated uh, ps uh, without any chance of publishing it from german, yo- no, it was already an english word. it was already english, and it had already been passed the way
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, er, five years at the university published from german. of course, just in case, i was completely unprepared to translate from german. i translated this play. it was a play by, uh, nobel laureate harold pinter by a wonderful playwright, and i was completely unaware of the fact that pinter would not be staged or published. at first the seventies is not possible, and the university it was just a university. i probably didn’t translate anything, but it was not a fool’s translation, and then in general, except for military translators in general for translators. i am not ready. well, we had language classes quite a long time ago , the university taught the language much better, just like at the institute of international relations. yes, but at the university they studied with us, at least, in general, quite average. so
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i translated this song of my legend was akhmanova, there. well, akhmanova did not teach directly. she didn't go into the auditorium, i see. so i translated this play. and imagine it was staged, however, it was staged 40 years later, and in what year did you broadcast it in the theater, we advice it was it was in the seventy-third year to stage a city, a pinter and so on it was, yes. although, he is somewhere out there in some kind of basement as some kind of dude. he played there for many more pinters does not require luxurious costumes, scenery and so on. here. e, well , somehow it all started with this, and then it had to be interrupted forever, because i was invited in the eightieth year to a very prestigious literary seminar, as they now say, where the famous marefinarium stood at the head. there were wonderful
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translators elena surits. uh, larisa bespalova in general, the classics of lurie vladimir kharitonov are excellent and so on. and they gave me stories. i translated this story. it seemed to me. it was an english writer, modern for those times, ngs wilson; i translated this story; i changed the title of this story in russian, that is, according to english. it was called somehow in one way, i don’t remember what frost i called it. otherwise. it seemed to me that i translated it very famously and okay. and it was completely destroyed during the analysis of this story, that is , there the stall itself was teaching there the stall itself, so to speak, she was the conductor. and they didn’t beat me with the consequences of all the rest, and in general, so to speak, it was, you know, what was called a ban on the profession. i took it this way, and then when i was i
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had a claim, because we had a lot. the main complaint was that i i’m translating no, it’s not for sure that i don’t translate, because here, as it is written by the author, and to translate to our interlocutors, that in fact there are two traditions in the russian school of translation, one calls for literalness, at least closer to the text surrounds further and the other calls for forget that word. i think the equivalent. yes, if you translate them and everything is bad, because if you translate badly close to the text, then you simply cannot be read. and, if you translate, far from the text, then this text of yours, boris pasternakshih, is a completely brilliant text, but are still arguing whether they are playing it or still i will try to be a solid great one from myself. but, uh, so, it means that in the eightieth year the translator’s path should have been interrupted, but no, after that, it means that i began to translate a little and got on my feet after that.
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i began to translate the beating and, in general, as a result , i somehow got involved and translated quite a lot of things, and, uh, most of all and most successfully. i was translating in the nineties already in the nineties, when the fact is that in the seventies and eighties, young translators were treated badly, they were not they trusted, they gave the best of the strength to translate a story once, and still did not trust. but it was just such a hierarchical structure, where even the forces of the editor were not allowed, generally speaking, they did not want to mess with beginner weak translations. that could give a story could give two times when it surprises how dentists become masters. they not only pull their teeth, mannequins, after all. yes, once through these, as some kind of short stories , gradually began to grow to bring. and romanov , and. eh, here i got two directions in my translation
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activity. e, which are the most interesting to me and which i think. it turns out better than anything else, this is a translation of non-fiction, that is, nonfiction literature , essays, journalism. ah, letters, from all this quite recently. i published a book for a publishing house. uh, which is called national prejudice. these are not the letters of the diaries, but their own style of non-fiction prose in english literature over the past 500 years. yes, it's wonderful. i published it all. much earlier, at different times, but here it happened. it's basically. this is a collection of your former ones. yes, there was such a series. hello progress foreign art journalism documentary title right. there. by the way, i had translations in the house of a chistotun, which i actually compiled myself after the word to
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which i wrote wonderfully . also some legendary sergei sergeevich verintsev. yes, yes, of course , uh, and the second direction in my translation activities that are closer to me than others are, uh, the translation of comic literature, aphorism and all kinds of clinical prose, yes, and here , too, not america is also not in england , mainly, but also in america, but also america uh. that's quite recently. you are a publisher. time came out a two-volume set of such comic prose, separately english and separate american , and i had volumes of an english aphorism of an american aphorism. i translated a lot of this. i translated, of course, a lot of fiction. but still here let's call these two directions one of them documentary, and the other comic about these are my two strong points. here you are
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really mater. i can't even do it right off the bat. eh, i can't support it, so to speak. but still, nonetheless. i remembered, yes , and then to all this, i don’t know, maybe i anticipate your question to all this. here in the eleventh year they joined already, in fact, books on the fiftieth anniversary of the legendary film bartender, listening to my letter, who is this? hello, i'm listening. you should have received a letter from devoted member of the party. hello, where are you then clear 17 moments of spring? frau kim get together tomorrow after the program
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question has become a quiz. might help for lunch it contributes to the restoration of memory and attention to the object, so that the head works for our conversation, the next issue of a literary trick. let them talk, let them read, and i'm dmitry buck, his host. today i say wonderful guest. it's true. translator, writer, biographer and editor-in-chief of foreign literature magazines alexander yakovlevich it seems to me that in the seventies-eighties and now. relationships, uh, to translated literature are very different, but because now, theoretically , anything can be translated, and translations keep up immediately and by anyone. yes yes, i agree, by the way, this important amendment is very important, because the nineties,
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about which we started talking, er, there was a revolution in literary translation, they began to attract young translators, because it was important to be different. yes, it was important, uh, to publish the book , to sell it as soon as possible, not necessarily to translate well, but to translate necessarily quickly, necessarily quickly, not always. you can find out from the translation that it’s bad, but, but before my eyes, the book was torn into 10 parts angelica's huge book was handed out with ten young translators who don't really know how to transport the doctor there, but he looked, because their names were at least yes the editor, as a rule, enlarged the editor sometimes didn't look. there is no time for editors, and at the same time there was a sad, uh, revolution in editorial work. today we have. eh, in the sense of foreign literature. here i will make a compliment to my journal, perhaps only in journal foreign literature the editor knows the language, uh, through which he, from
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which i had in mind a little different nevertheless. uh, because um. and it’s understandable, what you are talking about, but i had in mind, just the lack of fish in the russian literature of the fatherland. well, as if there were a lot in the self-creator. yes, it was then and precisely because of this that the magazine and the countries of literature were so important and interesting to everyone. it was a highway, almost native. yes, let's not offend anyone. and in the new world and in october in the neva , interesting things were also printed all the time this time, there was a boom around. uh, there are danilov, for example, orlova and so on, yes, but still, this, uh, faulkner opposed. i remember the seventy- third year. for the first time, the hands of the black prince are dead. oh, and you can go on and on. and these were translations of books, which, as a rule
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, were late, relatively speaking, yes. before, there was no window to europe. and now it means it has broken through. now it has appeared. therefore, my thought is so simple that in these very seventies-eighties, but we were closer , perhaps i could almost own foreign literature. publication of the novel, the streets of the magazine, because it has been done already, yes, the whole year of the ninth year one episode each fortunately, exactly 12 episodes 12 episodes. yes, and then at the end, there were also comments that jason had made to the translator. the director was not a translator. by the way, you know, this is now somehow attributed to her. she, uh, did a lot of things as an interpreter for me. yes , she did not translate, not a single line. however, she and i put joyce's letters into joint translation. uh, in the journal questions of literature
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eighty-fourth year, how it appeared how it appeared is unknown here you cut me off, really strange, but it is a fact that she did not translate ours. beloved katya did not literally translate very much, but look, it was worth publishing a novel all year when it was already possible to publish books. well first of all, the book didn't exist yet, so why didn't i do it? well, not to you, yes, probably, yes? well, she wasn’t there either, and this, of course, attracted readers to magazines very much. well, here is a small interlude, as always, and in a completely different area. we are moving. this is a cycle. the old book in front of me is not even a book, but a pamphlet, but a thin little book that e came out in 1952. it is called as was written by vasily terkin e, the answer is the reader. ha-ha alexander tvardovsky published this little booklet, pamphlet, years
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after the end of the war and here. e, in my opinion, the maximum information that is necessary for the perception of this great book is set out, and the fighters, because here, for example, tvardovsky's answer to readers. not in the sense of an angry response. on the contrary, uh hmm answer, which cannot be given to every reader, and the secret was very simple uh, this is a poem, as we remember it was written in a four-step choir so folklore, crossing, crossing, coast, left bank of the right and tvardovsky was, uh, simply littered with letters from readers who corrected this poem had so uh, a clear effect of authenticity, and they are fiction, just not fiction, that they wrote to tvardovsky that, uh, in fact, the name of turkin is not vasily but viktor he serves in a neighboring regiment or somehow otherwise and most importantly, that many um readers will continue. yes. and where is your
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terkin, where you will find vasily without effort, and so on, and there the car was tearing itself up in the snow. that is, it is such a hypertext, in fact. yes, in modern terms, it somehow happened that alexander trifonovich vordovsky, being one of a whole group or brigade. you can say write or that were aimed at creating such an a a inspiring e, propaganda work e he remained one of the slots of a truly great book, in which there is not a single there is no word of propaganda, not a word of appeal to some abstract values. and there is such a real russian native peasant who sees the plane and tries to shoot it down with a rifle, because the clock that has stopped he corrects them, remembering his past. he says that why not an order. i agree to
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a medal for an amazing accurate hit. in sympathy. and for those who are at the front, devoid of ideology, devoid of distractions. e, the schemes of the work, which truly, e, overcame its boundaries and was printed day after day, week after week, and that is why this. uh, a thin little book serves as a wonderful addition to alexander tvardovsky's poima well, as always, i tell you, our dear interlocutors, that a paper book is very important, a specific book is very important. like a thing that speaks to us even when we are not reading it, of course this text can be found on the internet , you can find it in a collection of works of such a red color. this is, uh, collected works, as you and i, of course, remember, but it is very important to remember and

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