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Understanding 9/11tv Zhivu i vizhu 1TV September 6, 2023 12:00am-12:50am MSK
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you like the moscow view from here. of course you like this one, don't you? why? it seems to me that this is the real moscow and it has not changed at all since it was in the seventieth year. so now, only the trees have grown and everything has become green in the river, yes, in the distance
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, several types of workshops have been preserved in your paintings. well, the whole poem sounds so i already feel the clouds. although i do not want and do not seek , i live and see, that's all. bye bye. you know , this workshop of yours reminds me of some kind of time machine, look at moscow landscape outside the window. almost the same as their days of your youth, old funny signs on the doors withered cacti on the windowsill stretchers ascended the walls.
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it seems to me that even the dust has been preserved from that, the young past time has gone. only you are another gray-haired wise and famous. were you happy at that time or not at the time when natasha and i got married, but that was it was the seventy-eighth year. life has been really hard for me. i would even say a teacher all the time. why is it so in this soviet life. i felt always strangers stranger stranger stranger because from the very beginning i set a goal for myself. to be absolutely independent from this state not connected with it in any way. and when it happened to you, why did you treat him like that? this is what happened when such a rebellion was organized at the institute for a perfect time
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, they rehabilitated people who already seemed hopeless, it seemed that they had opened up. everything is possible, therefore, such new ones in order to bring back such as sergei gerasimov i have never been taught on the sidelines. how should one behave under soviet power? how to get out without permission and you reconciled or closed? i closed myself completely, because this stalinist time there is no uh contradiction, there can be no talk of resistance, because at any moment they could
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come in and see what you are doing by this time turned off, that after all the situation is strong has changed. are you home. you can do whatever you want, well, show what you 're doing, here we won't let you. so, when you left the country at the age of 55, at least not a single exhibition here on your paintings, which you took out with you, presented stamps, artistic value is not , you can take away your daub, you don’t need to pay anything. after all, this was how your paintings were treated in the ussr and they were of no interest to anyone, were the bosses a critic or spectators , i didn’t have spectators in my studio at all , the artists didn’t even come. if they came, even even my good friends, they pretended not to see what was hanging on the wall
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somehow. well, what is it like once from such official artists andronov kolya andronov who also had a workshop in this house on in the attic, and he asked me for money , the mutuality said that he would definitely return them to me and really for sure. as he said he came. naturally, i invited you in. that's why, as it were, he entered and saw what was on the stage, what time had become with him. more than a minute he he said. showing to my work the entry entry. no, he said, well, it's better when you directly imitate the prayer, you understand, it was somehow not an artist's conversation. with an artist. it didn't need my answer at all. it was like, you know, like, uh. well it had to
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put in place, as if presumptuous money was taken by the artist. you are bad, for example, this is what you do. that was this nonsense. well, be an honest person. well, it doesn't show off. yes, it’s strong, but i was , of course, it’s very, but i would like to come and say, great to eric, you are amazing, the picture of you is wonderful, painting my situation immediately became very strong for me or what? appeared. no, money didn’t appear, money, money didn’t appear, but the situation, how to say, is very changed a lot. that is, i understand that for moscow artists it was foreigners who became a kind of measure. they said,
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guys this is a worthwhile thing, yes strange, but it was just like a japanese outsider in a clean hungry office. he did not always have enough money for a piece of meat in the west bulatov suddenly becomes famous. there behind the iron curtain. where he was not released already in the seventies. fame came to him, the recognition of his paintings already had a price there, but the first ones that he distributed to his friends or sold for a penny now resell at auctions by collectors for a lot of money. but then in soviet times. how they dealt with their works, they sold them or gave them to friends, in principle, if someone liked what i was doing, i was ready to give it away for free, because i was pulled here already in the union, pulled, generally dragged by the kgb, and meeting with foreigners.
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then it was dangerous. yes, well, yes, but we didn't know exactly how dangerous something was. it's not dangerous today. and yesterday it was a danger. what will happen tomorrow, who knows? well, in general, the police is from time to time orders to vacate the premises in 24 hours , it already turns out, this is the premises belongs to me. well, it belongs to the theater sovremennik here they have rehearsals. oh, how interesting, although we paid our own money. we built it all ourselves. such a hassle was constantly firemen came. that's how much. there is electricity there , and every time you showed him that here is your signature, here he is, as he says, not my portion, they came for a bribe for a bribe again come on him a tablet. as a result, we locked this door and did not open it. have you just
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agreed with your friends how they will knock? remember this knock. there was some kind of complex figure there, some kind of pum-pam-pam music. well, somehow, in general, it was necessary to dry up some kind of melody . all the soviet years, poetry parties , exhibitions for their eccentric workshops, all this most often happened. up there in the attics. where it was impossible for outsiders to penetrate where it was necessary to have a password or a guide. oh, how many wanted to get to to him, as freedom to ideas, as romance, moscow conceptualism was originally, because that's what it was called ro. now kabakov bulatov pivovarov zakharov yankelevsky, which surnames have dispersed around the world, like brothers and fairy tales, and youth has passed, but has not disappeared, it has remained in their works forever. so you were talking
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here in a very close closed circle, consisting of fifty people, about, well, out of two out of only two people. and only the three of you understood that this is art and it is new, and all the rest came to you and they said you're a good guy. let's have a drink, how could you not go crazy at this moment and not say, yes, maybe, really. i am nobody very hard. i can't say that i was fine. it is not true. but it was still, perhaps, to work for me means for the union of artists you pretended to be your soviet, and then locked the door to the workshop, painted what they did not consider to be art. well, you see, this is how it works. yes, but
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no, i think not. you eric vladimirovich just behaved like a real person in normal life. partizan and very cleverly divided their lives for them and for themselves. maybe, in general, but you had a picture of a sunset or sunrise. that's what you thought when you drew this, well, we were just like that it's the end of an era. here, uh, ends some huge fuck. here, well, this is the border, as if between the past and not the future, that is, it seemed to people around that this was a normal life. and it seemed to you that she was absolutely not normal not normal. that's it . this is what i always tried to express, that this is normality. our normality abnormal. here comes the market life. and how do you understand now? she's normal, damn it. and why do substitutions take place all the time, even as in soviet times. the concepts were changing, it was said about courage, but it
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meant servility, and it speaks of incredibly honesty, but it meant denunciation. well, and so on, but in the market that in some sense you are even more dangerous than the soviet ideology. this is a market ideology, because, uh, it really declares a lot of very useful and convenient things for people, so no less. she seems to be giving in. uh, so quietly, as if from childhood , people are inspired that this is the meaning of the life of another. yes pleasure success pleasure. yes, you think so. here it is. i thought the soviet era so i think now.
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here are the top two shelves. after all, they are busy under a book illustration, so exactly, exactly they are. here are the two shelves. and how many books do you keep there? yes, more than a hundred, it works for 30 years, i work for 30 years. show us something from there. yes, i'll show you here. of course, there were many different books had to do those who do. well, not at all interesting. yes? here, it's anderson. yes, wonderful. these were our favorites. yes? oh, see cover cover. see. what a beauty vasiliev.
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yes, they caught something with oleg, something felt him then you from this part of life, as an artist, you cannot refuse, although for you it was a laggard to make money. well, that's why we strictly divided time for book and painting. our autumn-winter winter was like a book, because it was dark, but completely. yeah yeah and spring summer, and how they distinguished each other. after all, a book is one work, but a painting is a friend. here the transition was the most difficult and it was necessary, of course, such a shake-up was needed, as a rule, oleg and i went somewhere,
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what did you get from this, we then came out completely empty, clean everything. this, of course, was nothing left of the book. inside. it was possible to start again, as if a new life. you fly out or fly in and meet, happy whom they meet and you will be. do you love me? that yes, yes or yes no, he is getting married today. congratulations. thank you love.
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get a delay of the first payment up to 90 days free card with 10% cashback on everything get a debit card for life. with his friend oleg vasiliev, eric bulatov illustrated books at the publishing house, malysh, and it is impossible to believe that these masterpieces were once for them only corvee labor for denmark to the state, which the artists paid for the right to speak freely for the right to live. their cinderella little red riding hood, sleeping beauty. i'm sure it's a real common national value on these books has grown. i myself my children are grandchildren and i hope that their children will also read these books and admire these illustrations. here natasha, this is
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just our year, just about when you got married, right here, right here, here we are, i did it. you invited her on purpose. i already knew for a long time, natasha yes, you can, she was married to one of my friends, a very very good wonderful, therefore, a writer of sophistication. here and there, we couldn't have any i, of course. with natasha , this was out of the question, but, but misha was very hurt, but he had a congenital heart disease, and he died very young after 3
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years after that, for some kind of picture, and i arrived, i stood, he quickly quickly drew very hard tried and suddenly threw away pencils and brushes. well, i guess it wasn't easy for him. he had already been married twice, he was afraid. i can't say that he was unlucky with a woman. he has always been very successful. yes, that's just to get married, he was not going to. wanted to be free. uh-huh wanted to be free, and therefore marrying me, of course, was a big responsibility. how did you meet? well, our common circle was acquaintances
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and there was such a situation that i mostly worked in the evenings. and if he invited friends to see the paintings, then everyone came in the evening, but i couldn’t, and he thought that i just somehow despise him and treat him badly. well , once upon a time it worked. so, after all, i came to see him and looked at his work, no impression. i have to say. yes, why? well, i was brought up as a girl, and yet you like russian wanderers, right? which i don’t love, but i loved, i loved levitan’s landscapes, i loved polenov, painting of such a plan and reconciled. i only when reconciled precisely. yes, suddenly i began to look at him with different eyes at his work, when i saw his work as a skier over the horizon, where did he
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go? and this movement was, well, directly physically palpable. here i thought, no , something is not just like that. we need to figure it out. i'm sorry, but if you still didn't understand his picture, you wouldn't be a wife . hmm yes, it's really very important to drink very, maybe why because it's very close to me. my natasha, music, of course, yes, i've drawn a lot of her. yes, she rarely likes what she gets, and i have to throw away quite a lot. this is a fake, yes, and why a picture of a fake hangs in your workshop of a shawl means a lot in
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my life. uh, i brought some of my work to show. asked. well, what do you think yourself? how are you feeling? now what do you think about this? and i said that i already feel like i’m being praised and that’s it, but i feel that this is all completely nonsense, that it’s not right, i can’t do anything, and in general a terrible condition just hopeless, and he told me, i remember this, he really said all his life. well, you are in a very good creative state. and so, and the fact that you feel this way, while it will be all your life. and if suddenly this will not happen at some point, suddenly it means
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you are finished as an artist. that's what he said, tell me, how does the picture appear in your imagination. is it your will, your fantasy, or does it arise from somewhere unexpectedly and you should only wait for this moment to start painting a picture, what is this picture consists of two elements. this is a flat surface, on which we apply paint there, or some kind of image and some kind of space space, which, as it were, is not there, it is a flat picture, but it is in a state in space. this is a metamorphosis of the plane of its transformation into space. this is the main property of the picture, with which, as a result, i work with plane and space. they are actually opposite concepts. they seem to deny
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each other, but nevertheless the pictures connect them. and i thought that i want another of them not to unite them in a kind of harmonious childhood, but to oppose them, on the contrary, to sever them, to oppose them. let's say freedom is not freedom, as space is a problem, because naturally freedom is a space of prohibition on space, if not free. here, yes, in this case there is no entrance. this is the entrance. this entrance is a kind of white space, which becomes simple, and under the white is already written there is no entrance. here, in fact, here is our soviet life, as it were, that is , it all began with the struggle against the soviet ideology with the inability to break through the order and the framework. and when all this was destroyed and you
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also participated in this destruction. everything collapsed, it turned out that you were not fighting against the soviet power, you were fighting correctly with a dead plane with living space, you were fighting with life itself. so i understand, yes, then in fact, this is a dead plane. it is, as it were, our daily life uninterrupted. i work with what my own life offers me, with the material of my own life they work. and why exactly is this? how many impressions a colossal amount of impression goes on continuously. so for some reason, one thing strikes, everything is right for you. here is what you should do. i do not know why. why does she feel the main thing for some reason, that you are obliged to do this. so, when eric vadimovich you come from paris, how
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do you feel the difference between moscow and him? here, climb up here to the roof of your workshop, look. and how is it for you? for you, what is dearer, what is more interesting, what is artistic? well, how can i tell you, paris and i really love paris, in fact, i really i like it, and it’s beautiful in moscow yes, of course, i think, but still my city, moscow i don’t know, i don’t know, i don’t know at all, i don’t know, i don’t know, now you live in two
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moscow parisian houses, you calmly cross the borders, you feel free. and when you first realized that you would live that way, i didn’t tell you, no. after stalin, when it began to come to life, as if our culture and books appeared french impressionists in the museum, the sun, work.
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museums all over the world vied with each other to invite eric to their place, and then they called him to paris. probably in school. i don't think it would have been a bad achievement when it came to the composition of the artists. here and in klyany, by the way, wonderful artists. it's like, a trace of what was, that is, something the beginning of the world. here is the very beginning. but this, well, what to say, the camera turns to this blue thing. he looks at me and says, you, what, i 'll draw this myself, lord. what are the problems, how is it
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different? why is this a work of art from what is not art? the theme is different, that here this one here turns into this flat flat blue surface turns into such a depth filled with inner light, and oneself such a parable. there was a musician who played the flute, but there was always only one note, and finally his wife, who loved him, but nevertheless decided. why so 500 other musicians they have a lot of several notes there for some reason you always have space. sberbank
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svetlana knew how to add spice to them , we do well together. look, it's great that we have a credit savings. apply for a credit savings card for 120 days without interest. the most profitable in the country is an absolutely flat person, but with flat desires i see the light as a source. it's holy huge it's bigger pictures always. because every point of the picture is illuminated by him from the inside, no matter how big the picture is. that's why it's not not all the same, not a point, in fact, a huge source of light. here i don’t seem
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to fall, this is the same stream, as if the main one , i’m on the sidelines, definitely and nonetheless. i live , you don't live in poverty, that is, in fact, at some point, the artist becomes a kind of factory. some, that is, because it is all in the hands and everything. the rest of his well-being depends on how much he was invited to different museums, there was such a kasper koenig, then there was such a very influential figure, very significant. and in particular, there was such a question. here they say that you, uh, there are two or three pictures that make them true or false, and i said everything correctly, it turns out that severe does not want to say. you uh do it slowly because you because you
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have to work in a completely different way here. here, look your friend. what is it like to orient yourself right away, you see how well 30 pictures do for you at once on this topic. varying a little, but you don't want to. i do 33 a bag of prep and then one candy bar. it's just that i can. what can i say that more than 30 years have passed since then? it seems to me so you know, if i do, not not 30 drawings one picture for 30 paintings. that will be bad pictures from my point of view, but then you will have a house in nice, you will have a plane , you will have, in short, this does not suit me. i still want to respect myself. surnames bulatov well, now we are sitting near
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a parisian window, the same as in moscow, what eric shows you from this window, put, that you have already drawn from him only even he wrote above. this street, after all, means a shifting person who must definitely watch something. very strong, he turned around with such irritation and saw in front of trump before his eyes to know the boy was a high school student , he had a schoolbag behind his back black square, which was right in front of his nose, and your picture of the red horizon, it also appeared, like malevich’s and i did not tell you some she was treated in the clinic in this way. i had to lie on my stomach, uh they heated my ass with some kind of eerie
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lamps. i had a window with my nose and the sea outside the window. here, i was lying like this, yes, it was beautiful, but as luck would have it, this is where the sea and the sky are connected. that's right here across the window was life. here. here it is your image of your life. indeed, and not only in your life in general, eric vladimirovich, you were anti-soviet. and what, then, i did not take part in any, there, demonstrations, exhibitions. here is the famous bulldozer story never accepted in nothing in this section, but soviet and at the same time. uh, it turned out that my position is incompatible with the position of dissidence. like, uh-huh, because back then it was necessary
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to consider what you do, like me, as a political action. it does not matter how you draw there, good or bad, it is important that you take part, here in some kind of underground exhibition and the audience. those who come will also look at it. you were in the middle between the soviet government and between the dissidents from the point of view of the dissidents. for example, i looked like a coward, like some kind of person dishonorable, but the fact is that for me e be an artist and be some kind of figure. e such a public party, huh? well, it can't be a completely caucasian story. here i am, so i get it. a postcard by mail in which it is simply written that today, today, i must appear at
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the central committee of the party, the entrance number there is such and such i am happy. don't listen, but i 'll start now. so that means i rushed, and every party. where is this entrance? i have no idea, so i've gone through this city. here this cicapatija, there are entrances, everyone changes 25 there 80 on purpose so that the spies do not make out there, and i have already gone to the old square. absolutely mediocre open overcoat, although it was cold, but he somehow and beautifully stands and smokes, and i talk to him so bewildered. do you happen to know, under the entrance? here is such and such, and suddenly he tells me
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how the lord god infuriates, he tells me, but you go a little more and there the yard. yes, you are the drivers. and here i am, uh, directly covered, taking off. go to this floor. there, then, these red carpets stretch along the corridor, endlessly the corridor goes straight, not a single person. no. i mean, i look by the numbers closer closer closer closer. now the next one should be my bang ends, and there are already completely different numbers. from me it means i'm completely stunned. and again , as this woman appears, god's helper. i say, you see, here is my number. here they gave me the end. she says everything, but you
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look from the other side. here in that corridor that crosses, there is some kind of door, look, maybe there and indeed doors open and so somehow joyfully. and you advertise. hello, they didn’t want chaika, as if he had been following you all this time watching you wandered, tormented by your last name. why exactly you were invited to the video of this consultant from the glass. well, vladimirovich why exactly were you invited, do you understand? i fly in so happy, and they tell me no, there
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was no call to issyk. no one greets me, no one talks to me at all. the phone rings at 15 minutes past seven. and after that the smiles spread come, dear. that's how i walked. tell me, after uh that you had no idea then you had to stay in the west. yes, of course, that's what kabakov said. i left so as not to return. i had absolutely no such thing in my head and i simply did not think at all about it and about emigration in general. i never thought when in the ninety-first year, this path was in moscow. we were in paris, it seemed that everything was already here. we can't go back to the end, that's why it was like that. hooray
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