my father in twenty-three, and then his cousins ​​were born. children. e vladimir ilyich oleg a vladimir and and. i am vladimir chelyushev vladimirovich and my father was born in such a small town , the former austro-hungarian ruler of his homeland, and then, when he went to primary school there, but he also complained to me, i remember this very well, that he was not released until 5 years in the yard to play with the serbian boys, because he had to learn. uh, as follows the russian language and called him nikita and it was a conscious decision of my grandfather, because he i only wanted such a name, russian, which is not available in other slavic languages ​​and there is another small detail about his baptism, that when they came to the orthodox church in serbia to baptize nikita, the priest refused the prestige, because yes, he is not no nikita let's nikolai -ka.

it's somehow good there. call it what you want, but i will baptize as i know, as i know how, my grandfather went to uh, some kind of metropolitan, that means serbian, who said. i know such a russian name you can baptize nikita and here it is they baptized nikita and then there is a photograph like uh hmm my father is sitting with this. now you see him, ours, after the death of my father, with such a tolstoy ring, where is the coat of arms of the tolstoys. so that means, apparently he was allowed to wear it. this is a great source of pride for photographs. that's what it means, showing tolstoy's family peach, and he studied at the russian gymnasium correctly. you see , to belgrade so that he could continue his education at the russian gymnasium, of course. this amazing thing was also a gymnasium, where many taught she was in a russian house or not. yes, so now, also in the twenty-third year , the 90th anniversary of the russian house is celebrated. this is exactly the house, russian, so to speak.

which was built by russian architects, and, because the immigration was very large, it is believed that the russian emigration in serbia was approximately 40-45,000, and the serbian king alexander received the russians with great joy, because serbia had a very large military emigration a and king alexander knew the russian language very well, he studied in russia in the pashinsky corps and, in addition, of course, the relations of the serbs. the russians were very special and i will introduce what, of course, the serbs still remembered. uh, the liberation war in the balkans is still that war of the 19th century, which liberated them from the turks from the ottoman empire. in addition, very educated people came to serbia, not only, but very many of these forty-fifty thousand were people with education and skills young good professionals. this is all i mean that it was wonderful in the russian gymnasium. education dad got a wonderful

education and in fact they studied gift textbooks. here is further. wait, the most interesting thing begins, because this russian pre-revolutionary boy, a native of a white émigré environment, ends up in the soviet union and becomes, uh , a soviet student at moscow state university, and then a soviet scientist, and so on. but this is the most important thing between these two war. yes, this is world war ii, where nikita ilyich takes an active part, as a partisan, and then as a red army soldier. and these are some completely paradoxes of history. yes uncle's father is white. yes it turns red. he said somewhere about himself that i was the only tolstoy red army soldier. here's how it happened. well, this is generally, of course, such an amazing historical turn that has occurred in our family. and this is a conversation not only about my father, and not only about my work to take him, and these serbian fat russian immigration.

you play them, which she does during the war, and this is also a conversation about the fact that they just managed to somehow change their fate, there was a huge will and over the course of circumstances, of course, which just if not and here are these two grandchildren. e, tolstoy ilya ilyich vladimirovich my grandfather is his brother, then we wouldn’t be sitting here now and there wouldn’t be fat people in russia on the birthday of tatyana doronina , but everyone in moscow should go there, too, the ends are not close so sitting. others did not take, than in the spring i do not believe in misfortune, drizzling moscow and the moscow region on the first we

continue. this is a podcast life of wonderful and we have a wonderful journalist as our guest. tv presenter fyokla, fat, russian immigration divided into defencists. exactly so they were ardent. there is such a thing. dad loved to quote it. i do not remember a large piece, but i remember the phrase that in émigré magazines and newspapers such a poem was printed about my grandfather. no epigrams mean how he argued at all, and it was said there, so it was like a scourge of god fell on him count ilya ilyich ilya ilyich was a nice fellow, but at times he was just naughty, that’s how he led discussions. and just like that, they defended this position of the defensive word, naughty

good, in general in relation to the fat. this in general, lev nikolaevich also wrote about us that there are fat wild ones for something wild. this is very about our line and children. this is very very suitable. i smile like that, and you smile, because we imagine modern simple people, who also would have me too, of course there was a wild shawty, but now it’s not about that, so in my bombing of belgrade, they begin on april 6, forty-first of the year. my father is still finishing. this is the last class of his gymnasium. there is a photograph of him standing in absolutely tattered rags as thin as a stick such a pole, because the first one is his work. it was like he hadn't even finished yet. he dismantled the nazis in heaps, dragged bricks on the bombed-out houses of belgrade, it’s just that somehow they don’t know where they put them in order, then they turn out to be leaving belgrade, where it’s already hungry and they come to vladimir ilvich tolstoy, who worked as an agronomist in the city of new scourge in the

north east of belgrade on the banks of the river, yews, yes and uh, they turn out to be where the partisan movement begins. they help uh, partisans and in general, probably an idea return to the soviet union it arises already when they stay in serbia when the red army comes, when the red army comes then, firstly, they turn out to be very useful, because they speak russian and they speak serbian vladimir ilyich knows everyone and he is a very respected person. so, for example, we still have a paper with gratitude written on it. or vladimir tolstoy to her for organizing the local population to help cross the soviet troops across the crossing of the tiysk river in my view of the nkvd smersh that they are white immigrants, that they cannot be trusted, that’s all. isn’t it true that all these stereotypes are being broken and people have a sense

of trust or what? so i can’t figure out when this moment of decision was. and maybe they are very, of course, very risky, remaining the moment when he enters the red army, for example, in serbia there is still the third grandson of tolstoy, vladimir mikhailovich tolstoy, who came from paris where he was terribly hungry, he lived in serbia, he must have been hungry , but better than in france and uh, here before the arrival of the red army, he said that i can’t with the big ones. i incredibly want to go home to russia. well, i can’t imagine that i will be with the bolsheviks in general like i have something. he left when the germans retreated, he went to paris and then went to america, and here our aunts live in america now. and i think that they were ready to cooperate with the red army when they stayed, because, in fact, it turned out to be ready cooperate with them. and it

really was a general, i'm afraid to make a mistake in his surname, by which the well-known are described meeting the soviet general, who met and who, uh, it was surprising for him that here in the serbian outback, and in the balkans , two tolstoy's grandsons are doing and apparently, this is a conversation. they are not just immigrants. they were not just white-spoken, they are fat and this immediately causes trust, because whatever it is, the soviet power is so and so, but tolstoy is tolstoy, it's true. and, of course, we understand what comes next. i'll tell you how they returned. and how uh, how they wrote a letter to stalin and what uh what they survived and the fact that we were born. of course, this is where the mirror of the russian revolution played a role. i think it's a key key role, but that means let's go back for a minute to the new scourge and to serbia in general, oh, young fat ones. here is my father, his cousin oleg, they are in partisan detachments, and they

participate and help the red army very actively. for- when when there are battles, and then my father, who means 20 years old. and he decides that he will go further from the red army , he joins the red army for him this the most important. e. well, he's just narrower and younger than the others. he they took him then they took him, surprisingly, his red army book - this is his first document, in general, for the first time he found himself among russian people, not just immigrants. but the russian people, so to speak, they became emigrants, there’s almost a number there, 0.01 and 0.02 of those who returned, a call to return, yes, and my grandfather has a witness certificate of repet certificate number 01. babushkin has two dad has 003 and so on. and when they returned in august forty-five years soviet union then, but i found it at the dacha

and couldn’t say what kind of strange newspapers they were with some insignificant articles. something my dad is there something there, well, there is no big reason to write something. it was such a pr-company that showed how wonderful it was. but in the soviet country there live even former white guards, even former monarchists, because this letter is wonderful. of course they wrote the letter, we are former monarchists and were guardsmen. it was in the first line of this letter. we want to return to uh, another amazing story that you told me, when they arrived by train at the belorussky station and they were met by anna ilyinichna’s aunt, that was the first thing she told them when they were in such an inspired patriotic mood. they went out to the platform and returned to their native land. he told them to be silent, be silent, yes, that is, they had to fit into this soviet reality, which is not at all what they dreamed of. yes, of course, and this is the memoir of oleg oleg vladimirovich tolstoy who

his son, uh, peter, talks about this and it probably determined them and their lives in many ways. no, further my father at this point when they returned. he was still in the red army, but then he succeeded. eh, in september he joined already, he received the appropriate permission and entered moscow university. it was also interesting, they hired uh front-line soldiers without any exams, but he was a little late. i had to go to the rector of the university. and e. it's also interesting that my father really wanted to do it. e history, but my grandfather understand? what what is it anyway? the soviet union once said, no, you can’t study history , it’s too ideological a science, then we told you. well, you know how i love literature, how i love poetry. we, the father , simply adored poetry and had a brilliant knowledge of the poetry of the silver age, because all this was available in immigration, all these publications and before the revolutionary immigrants. he uh, he was like a million.

i was attracted to this love when it was simply forbidden by them here, and even so , my grandfather says no. and this is impossible, because that and it's very ideological. ok then. well , at least i can study languages. well, you can do this. yes, this was before that’s why he becomes a linguist, and that’s why he becomes a linguist. he enters the faculty of philology. well, he enters the slavic department. eh, exactly, because this is this idea of ​​being russian and the idea of ​​studying the roots, but still of russian slavic culture. he was very little interested in any kind of german studies or any kind of french romance at all. and this and this this is very very it’s clear from his biography of a child born in a foreign land. but still, of course, you are a brilliant glorifier, because he knows beling’s fullness very well. uh,

serbian speaks russian, he studies bulgarian at the faculty of philology. he knows russian tradition. he writes works on his old slavonic language. the situation is dedicated to the old church slavonic language , a brilliant scientific career, he never made a career. it interested him very very little in different ways. yes, and of course, he became an academician and there he became president academy of sciences held some positions there, but it’s true, this all became possible after the end of soviet power, because he was not a member of the party, therefore, but the truth was that he was allowed to teach at the university, and there, fortunately, at the faculty of philology, where you studied and listened to lectures. dad, after all, not everyone had to be party members. and they had to happen freely and he had the opportunity. he had a group, which is from his students. uh, basically consisted of both and and. in general, dad created

his own scientific school and his own direction, very much in linguistics. well, it’s interesting that he had a very okay, horizons, and that’s exactly what he, uh, then began to study, this is exactly this at the intersection of different disciplines. what was his attitude to soviet life and soviet realities after all. here he was to some extent connected with dissidents or with all this. what did he think about all this? i don't know there solstice shalamov academicians. somehow, these topics appeared in the house of a dissident - this is a very active civic position. my father’s position was that he lived, as it were, without noticing soviet power. yes, i understand perfectly well, i am aware that you need to be allowed to do this, so that when they arrived in 1945, they ended up in the camp, because many ended up, we are such a happy family that no one ended up in charge of us and, of course,

the figure of lev nikolaevich as a classic of russian literature and took the mirror of the russian revolution. she saved us, this must be understood, that is, my father had the privilege and and he occupies such a position. he's just really lucky. nah , his life is incredible. it worked out successfully , relatively speaking, well, somehow, they probably tried several times, but it was clear that it was useless, you know? it's also a story like this. eh, they lived before the revolution, then a tragedy happened, then they lived abroad. and for them, the feeling of russia was that everything will pass, power will pass such a government will pass another, but russia will remain and when my mother remembers. yes , because my mother is a soviet person. she was born. uh, she was not in any emigration in moscow, and she asked. she says, here i am young, i also asked ilya ilyich, uh, my grandfather, that same white officer, immigrants and so on. she asks. but what to think about soviet power, and he

said very calmly, well, it will all collapse. and when? well, here's another 20 15 20 will pass, it's all collapsed. he did not live up to his number in the seventieth year, but collapsed. exactly then, approximately, when he and he said, why did she ask. my mother , he said, everything is rotten, and my father, but he seemed to live, as if outside of soviet reality, outside of politics. no, of course, we were in the evenings and all the time we lived to these voices and so on, but it was clear that, uh, that, that you can do your job, regardless of the soviet uh, from the soviet power, so somehow from the students communicate, and this, of course, goes into such linguistics and very specific dust studies, and and c. eh, of course. dad might have written more about po and some as a very religious person and studied the old church slavonic language, of course, he would probably

have written more on these topics, would have been involved in this more, if there had been an opportunity, but so somehow and this is what i know. descendants of tolstoy are often asked how were you brought up? so, what kind of special upbringing did you have there, and so on, did i understand what your family background was like? i can’t say anything, but now i understand what kind of upbringing was the main idea of ​​upbringing. what happiness that we are in russia what happiness? what, what, what, we are here and he just talked about this almost every day when i was studying at the philology department in the nineties. and well, if i say two-thirds, that would be an understatement. well, almost all of my course left, then somehow i want to go to paris for an internship. interestingly, the world is opening up. and maybe i'll learn a little there. well , of course, come, please, well, you remember, we made our choice. and, of course, this is a huge success, because i can’t imagine that they would have stayed. they stayed in serbia

if only they would go to serbia. they are further west. well i very much doubt what we my father would have done. it’s not even that he would have become an academician, but he would have simply done as much as he managed to do if he had been in an american university or in a french one. russia gave him fate, of course, and so. here is his father. that is, that is my grandfather and his brother. eh, of course they couldn’t, maybe it’s hard to judge? i ’ve never seen them; they probably couldn’t realize themselves fully, because these 25 years in exile have led to a very difficult life and somehow... well, of course, they dreamed of returning. they returned soon and turned 50. yes, for some, uh, that is , the main part of their life has already passed, although they were still very happy in russia. here is my father, who arrived, he was 22, of course, he succeeded. and this is great happiness. this is a big, huge task. thank you very much,

dear thekla, for this wonderful conversation. and this was a podcast. the life of the wonderful and with you i am alexey varlamov and my guest was thekla, fat, famous russian journalist, tv presenter and daughter of nikita ilyich tolstoy, about whom we had such a wonderful conversation today. thank you hello, dear friends, the podcast of the melody of my life is with you valery syutkin and today my guest is a wonderful man, who turned 65 on march 7, over the years, his character comes out and i have a man with a good bright character, alexander flyar. hello sasha, hello

valentin well, first of all, i’m interested in all our tv viewers and listeners. eh, here you are inserting your felix yes alexander flar. yes, kr- this idea was born, it was born , in fact, from some such internal need, when many, many years ago for the first time i approached the radio microphone in order for me to start leading a program that later became known as learn to swim and festivals and our movements. i realized that i needed to somehow identify myself on the air. and it seemed to me that just saying that sasha sklyar is there or alexander sklyar is there, like you, is not entirely interesting, not entirely catchy. and i remembered that at the embassy i had business card, when i worked in north korea and

it was written in english, as is customary, it means on the one hand in korean, because we are in korea and on the other hand in english, because you communicate with other diplomats should have. indicators to hand over your business card is polite, so that a person can peep, what is your name was written by alexander f dot sklyar and for some reason i didn’t think so for a long time on the air and designated hello guys. alexander flar is with you. learn on air swim. so here we go well, melodies and music in general are the best memory keeper. when we hear this or that song or melody, i just immediately remember to the smallest detail what happened at that moment, so here we are through the melody. as a matter of fact, we remember our life with you. we are absolutely the same age. and we have something to remember and the melody

of childhood. everyone has their own tell me what song or melody is associated with your childhood year. well, of course, a few melodies that were included in mine. and come with me almost all my life, because childhood memories. they may be the brightest, what you remember from childhood stays with you forever, but i remember in particular when, when i was very, very small, i went to kirovograd to my grandmother, who later was a great-grandmother. i came from moscow for the summer. and adults there then asked me to do something. well, like a rhyme or something, i asked to be put on a stool, because i was a small stool it seemed to me. it's like more properly solid and sang them a song about young drummer. how do i remember where

this song came from? i can't tell you, but since then i remember it, because this moment of the moment as i stand, here on this stool and sing hmm, you can yes, try into the world of show business. yes, that is, it was big. that 's somehow perfect. by the way, i have never performed on the guitar, because it is. well, of course, this is a children's song, but this is my own feeling. i'm also trying to catch up. we walked through the city of death. yes we face death. this is the song i associate with

childhood. what does it have to do with it? it seems to me that you know this, something was written about a trumpeter in the world, it was adapted into russian, because when another song sounds, it will be early there. get up early. get up early. this is my friend. kolka will howl. you will see, you will hear how the cheerful drum is a drum along the received one, there is still such a test in order to determine in moscow a person was born there in st. petersburg or in the urals and further and further yes, the test please continue, greedy beef, turkish drum, everything is 100% moscow because pickled cucumber is immediately yes. uh, here, just, the leningrad region. clearly the turkish drum. this means , respectively, moscow and someone plays on it, and there sashka sashka petka is a cockroach and

so on, just like that, something else is vivid from childhood memories. i have several poignant childhood memories. which remained in my memory for unknown reasons. that is, you don’t know the reason, but they, if you suddenly close your eyes and are transported to childhood, then you are definitely them. that’s exactly what you remember, one of these memories associated with my mother. this is a pioneer camp, near moscow, on a bright sunny day. and this day parents - parents arrived. this is probably the middle of the shift and i remember that my mother arrived alone without my father and brought it with her. absolutely amazing, which she baked herself a lemon tart. and here we are sitting with her somewhere

on the grass together, and she treats me to this pie, she talks to anyusha, i baked it especially for you. and now i have never tasted anything tastier than this pie in my life , or like my dad and i, he was a hunter an amateur, but he was a very good shooter and uh, he always went away in the spring and fall for spring and fall shooting. and that's when i was just a kid. he took me on something specially made for me, not just for hunting, yes, but for some kind of kayak trip. i don't know how much. i was about 10 years old. i can’t say exactly, but maybe, say 10 years old, maybe something like that, maybe a little less. and so he and i are floating along the river, which river i don’t remember, but it definitely remembers this feeling. we'll soon have to land on the shore

, it's raining. i'm sitting in the front of the kayak dad is in the back because he drives the pedals. here we are both rowing with him and he whistles a melody. which has been with me all my life, it ’s a melody without words, but i remembered it perfectly then, this piercing childhood memory . and i don’t know who the author is, i can’t say. for some reason, it seems to me that she sounded some kind of french. it seems to me that she sounded in the movie master of the taiga, but i could be wrong. well, maybe movie music. that’s it, yes, tell me, but into the profession, well, roughly

speaking, i call this melody of youth well then there is already a period when i know that in your life there was the mgimo institute and, in fact, you were going to become diplomats. apparently, they should become, but the music already existed in parallel. here you are hooked on music. thanks to what melody? well, you can probably even say that this is not a melody. and thanks to what figure? uh, this is definitely the perfect figure of vladimir vysotsky. this is definitely the perfect film vertical, which i watched, fell in love for the rest of my life with the song that was played there. i passionately wanted to learn to play the guitar and the first songs that i i picked it on a guitar that wasn’t mine at that time, but which we had at school, these were, of course , vysotsky’s songs. therefore, if we now talk about some melody that was in my

youth. and so, well, the one that i always remember, i think this might be one of the songs. vysotsky, maybe even this one, which also has something in it that exactly corresponds to the impulse of youth, uh, if it’s not a plain for you, here is the climate there are avalanches coming, one is given and here behind the commune fall it roars towards me and you can turn off the cliff and go around a new one, choose the difficult path is dangerous, like a military path has never been here. yes, he didn’t take risks, he didn’t test himself. even. he snatched the stars from the sky. you won’t come across many such beauties and wonders throughout your entire happy life. well, and so on, there is something like that. which, in a sense, determined

my whole life, including the choice of music. well, by the way, vladimir semyonovich had the first songs that were performed in films and the whole country recognized her. yes, thanks to these songs, that we have such a poet, and then, of course, he owned, and so you know, it is to this day, he owns absolute, it was such a hit. here is my youthful heart that i remember a whole period. e of his youthful life, when i was looking for his records, but was in different places, but most often in some adult people. well, let's say there him. hmm my friend's parents, then where in the house where i lived on television street, then it was called shvernik street in the house. he hmm, his parents had a tape, recorded songs of vysotsky and a tape recorder, on which, perhaps, the dnieper old-old-old i remember how when

my parents were gone, he allowed me to come to his house, we turned on this tape recorder, and i copied all the songs that were there all these songs into a notebook. i remember now until now . this was the first cycle of vysotsky's song about fomin's earring, i meet fomin's earring. he is a hero of the soviet union. well, and so on. it's about hockey players. uh, about uh, village boxers. this was the same tape that i then rewrote and learned all these songs by ear. i'm a fighter. by the way, there at the same time it was like this with a high sweat, the center waterton group, then even to the center, so that thanks to the fact that you are you, you are woven from this then you turn, and you have whole cycles. and vertinsky well, high. i have been singing all my life, including with and without a group.

eh, then there was vertinsky who came up. in fact, it’s also organic, because vysotsky really loved vertinsky and two or three times and this was recorded at his concerts, and therefore it is no coincidence that the only small piece where vysotsky is in the film the meeting place cannot be changed to the piano. do you remember what he performs? where would now who kisses your fingers? that is, it was not by chance that it was his choice. it was not govorukhin who told him to do it. it was vysotsky himself who, approaching, made such an amash, in the direction of his as he considered one of the teachers, but then, uh, the genre itself would also seem to be incompatible, but i’ll say here, drawing on a historical analogy, and and probably, vertinsky at the beginning of the primary and vertinsky and

yves montand. and vladimir semyonovich vysotsky is the people who here he was responsible for his presentation and communication with the audience alone, in short, even whit montana, when the orchestra played, he hid behind such a translucent fabric, as if there was an orchestra. it would seem that this is the best decoration in the world. living people they still play, but he said, i am responsible for what i do. look now here will be all you need is to communicate with me. one on one they emphasized their own, and this is random. well , here it goes, respectively. well, excuse me and just one small remark. i think that maybe this one for vysotsky and it was vertinsky's most important figure was vertinsky. the author himself is very important, of course, and he was one on one with the audience, it is clear that he had a pianist yes component. well, it 's still the main figure. you alone are standing in front of

a crowd of vysotsky even there on this topic there, do you remember the song at the microphone and on behalf of the microphone? yes he has. that is, probably, vysotsky already then understood that he would be just such a single author-performer. here it is and the guitar. and that's why he saw something in vertinsky's that would help him, then himself form for the stage. so, it seems to me, why vertinsky was so important for the vysotsky melody, which alexander recalls in our podcast of the melody of my life. well, sasha sklyar is getting older and the melody of love. and maybe it is not connected with this period, but from another. well, if so, just ask sasha and what is the melody of love, well, in your opinion of your life, of course, it can’t be a few either. here is just one,

but among these several there is one melody, which, if i hear it for me, is straightaway. the feeling of something incredible, that in life we ​​people call love, when i also heard it, i can’t say, but it seems to me, not in the film, not in the film. i heard it, maybe it was on a record, maybe on the radio, but anyway, i remember one episode associated with it with this song. this is exactly a youthful episode. i'm already at home in another apartment, where we lived with my parents on vavilov street in my room. and i hum this song. i'm alone without a guitar. it was also empty on nikolaevna’s land and when i flew to zyupery and my dad told me, sanin, no

, you’re singing wrong. i'm like wrong. well, as i heard something, no, dzuperi did not fly , but take it, the surname says it is, the author is such a writer, exupery, by the way , to say, after that i read this writer and fell in love for life. but then i didn’t read it, didn’t know it, and this song became for me one of the songs that i could say that it symbolizes love for me the earth was empty without you. how can i survive for a few hours and it also falls? ta the foliage of the garden and the taxi is still rushing somewhere, but

the earth is empty without you. and you fly and a man gives you his tenderness from the stars, as if from the stars. uh, how the poet turned and connected it all, therefore this three poplars on plyushchikha, of course, is a film by tatyana liozova. there is absolutely brilliant performance upon brilliant performance. yes, i didn’t hear this performance from anyone, but of course, in this film there is absolutely no, what i mean, efremov’s eyes, yes, yes, this frame. eh, of course

when i look now, and no matter how many times i watched. i think this is absolutely genius, absolutely brilliant light. and, of course, i understand nikolai nikolaevich why exempery, because exupery has several characteristics in him at once, which make him completely unique among writers. after all, he said that. well, in my opinion, it’s almost like a quote that pilots don’t die. they fly away and don't come back and the little prince that he wrote is something completely unique in general in literature. and if you also consider what kind of person he was, and what kind of what profession he had, then we understand that it’s all the same that nikolai nikolaevich defended precisely his exemperi in

this song, that’s for sure. yes, such melodies are such films, here are all of mine absolutely woven from this and with age with ours, unfortunately, not young anymore, but we understand at the same time that this has shaped us. of course, and again i remember vertinsky when i read his memoirs produced a phenomenal effect on me, as he accurately formulated. he says we're getting older and trying to keep our kids from stepping on on the same rake that we start , it’s natural to grumble and we are removed by the other dimension, like an agent in counterintelligence, so that we don’t prevent them from stepping on the same rake, as life is like this for the first time. yes, yes, and when i did a program many years later and sang vertinsky, i also plunged into it. uh, in his and memories to better understand.