[000:00:00;00] with great sin today we are talking with dmitry vitalievich trenev, he is today a professor of research at the higher school of economics and a research fellow, a leading researcher at the institute of world economics of international relations, and in the recent past, uh, the head of the carnegie center in moscow which, uh, note on comrade headed at over many years and uh, he is a very rare russian specialist who is preserving. uh, i would say honor, uh, dignity and loyalty to one’s country regularly appeared on the pages of american publications, and uh, somehow found, uh, the right tone to say things that people often didn’t want to hear, but which, from my point of view, were not only to be told to you from the position of russia, but also which

were very different to the united states, well , the carnage center in moscow is no longer functioning for the most part his employees, let’s say, are not here today and not with us, well, scientific employees, scientific employees, but dmitry vitalievich, uh, is active and productive in moscow and already uh, i would say a whole school of thought is developing around him about how to deal with that crisis around ukraine with which russia is facing today. thank you very much dmitry for this presentation. it's like completely honest and uh. i always believe that it is important for our viewers to understand who they are dealing with. because so many different people appear on the programs

and are attracted. um, on many different principles. but specifically for this program, especially for our special analytical issue on thursdays. and we try to invite people who really have something important to say. thank you, glad to be with you. thank you and now, uh, i'll take the bull right away horns. intense fighting is taking place in ukraine . ukraine seems to be losing its counteroffensive. it seems that this is even beginning to be recognized in the collective west, it seems that even high ranks of the biden administration are talking about this openly. but ukraine at the same time, as if to say, that what they cannot achieve on the battlefield, and they will achieve this by any means available, and including, in general, acts

that in russia, not without reason, are considered terrorist and openly, but uh, threats are openly given, and against well, people who usually are not considered valid targets except for terrorists. let's listen to what the official representatives of the ukrainian forces just said: next week the teeth of the russian devils will grind even more, and their mad mouths will foam in an uncontrollable frenzy, when the world sees how the kremlin's favorite propagandist pays for their crime, this will be the first of putin's puppets, all russian war criminals , propagandists, will be caught and justice will prevail, because. we in ukraine we are moving towards this mission in the name of faith in god of freedom and complete liberation. well, the most interesting thing here is, firstly, uh, so that our viewers don’t be confused, uh,

she’s a transvestite, but more important for our conversation on american women. and now an american citizen who officially represents the armed forces of ukraine declares this kind of thing, that is, she openly threatens terror, and not against those who howl. not for those who supply them with shells. not by those involved in military developments, but by people which she doesn’t like, because they have the same point of view in the united states . the biden administration does not cause any indignation, and we don’t hear that anyone in washington would consider it necessary to establish such antics. that's why i have a simple question for you. to what extent do you believe the biden administration

is directly responsible for the way ukraine is fighting this war. ukraine could not wage a war against russia today if it did not receive constant and expanding support of a wide variety support from the american administration. this is a fact that, in general, no one can argue. ukraine sends soldiers who die in large numbers , but weapons, intelligence, political psychological information support, financial support comes from the united states and countries that are allies, or

as we have in russia now, america russia with on the one hand and the collective west led by the united states on the other in washington, as he well -known denies that the united states is involved in the war, secretary of state. linkin constantly talks about how america supports ukraine but is not a direct participant in the conflict. do you agree that you can simultaneously do what the united states is doing and not be a direct participant in the conflict, there is a difference between direct and directly . the united states is a direct participant in the conflict , there is no doubt about it, but they are not a direct participant, because they are fighting on the battlefield ukrainians are for the united states of america therefore, yes, the united states is a direct but indirect participant in this war i’ll reveal another secret about you, you

are a former officer of the general staff, well, not the general staff, but the armed forces and i have never hidden it. it never happened. i think that i actually, you can be proud of, of course, of course, the organization, where you were connected directly with the general staff, ah, but in this context i want to ask you a question. as a military man, if someone does not just deliver weapons, if someone does not just train someone else’s soldiers at the entrance to the battle directly in direct mode inclusions, so to speak. gives them key military information, which during the battle is used to deliver precise strikes. this does not make this country a direct participant

; it does make direct participation, but not direct participants in the same way that soviet pilots during the korean war did. soviet missilemen shot down american planes on the korean peninsulas during the vietnam war, shot down american phantoms on the territory of north vietnam, and so on there are many such examples. uh, the military has uh the american military has. uh, the difference between uh, an enemy in the courts and an uh enemy on the battlefield, these are close, but still different categories, so the united states is a direct participant in the war, but not yet a direct participant, if the united states were a direct participant in the war. in this case, i think, we would have had a war, not uh, limited to the territory of ukraine and nearby regions of the russian federation, it would have been a war between

two countries and even between the nato bloc and the russian federation. here we are, we need to very clearly understand the fine line here, which still separates us from this war that may occur. eh, completely different consequences of the edge. eh, very thin. when you worked at carnegindown, you probably knew the chapter fundamentally. her husband, uh, four-star general chaldboyt, yes, he also knew him; the chairman of the board of directors of my center was an absolutely wonderful person. he passed away not long ago. as you probably know, he was shot down; he was a military pilot. he was shot down, and in the skies of vietnam and an anti-aircraft missile launched by him, of course, he did not know exactly by whom and the vietnamese

or soviet military personnel, but clearly delivered by the soviet union and clearly, vietnam could not have introduced the fight against america that it successfully waged instead of soviet practice. now, i know what it is for general boyd. this is a subtle difference, and between directly and directly, because somehow it was very difficult for him to understand, what was the practical difference for him, as a downed american pilot, the practical difference would be for jaysika and her fellow citizen of the united states, here it would be tactical difference. and so i'm with you i agree, of course when uh hmm you are shot down or you or your comrades are killed? to the intelligence provided by a foreign state, then you understand that you were overtaken by a foreign

bullet, which was fired by the side that could not fight without the support of this foreign state. there are no questions here, direct participation in the war. that's a lot. but there is, as you and i agreed, a fine line. so parents , don’t leave any small sharp objects here, doctor for someone. i'm not very good. and you are a wizard directly from you communicate with your soul and life, you know, we are surprised, i don’t understand. absolutely, because she has everything. you love your daughter. you can talk to your parents politely, no one likes them. and we give them pills and special boarding schools, why do they

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always on 1tv.ru russia is fighting in ukraine the united states plays a central role in this conflict and no one doubts that without the united states and they themselves said this without the united states, this war could not have continued. and of course, many russian lives were lost as a result of american participation in this conflict, but in the united states they are generally not felt. especially if you are not talking about the foreign policy elite, but if you are talking about the average voter. they feel that this war has something to do with them, so they allow the administration to do what it does because it is for the normal american. this the theme is not very present, of course,

the cost of war begins to irritate. i mean financial war. but this is completely different. what you get is a very serious symmetry, russia not only spends a lot of money, but also pays with the lives of its people, and in america the feeling is that no, they are not any participant in the conflict, not directly or directly, but simply what is called sitting on the rubble and are watching. well, in my opinion, the russian strategy. uh, the wars going on now are a very significant resource. this resource is precisely to a series of different steps of signaling events and so on to convey to the american public and the american political class that america too may pay a price

for this war, that this war is not one of the conflicts of the category that we just talked about korea vietnam warriors on some distant theaters. it comes in close proximity not only to the russian borders, but also from the most important centers of the russian federation, including moscow . moscow sometimes takes on itself attacks from drones launched by ukraine. this price for the americans should be, uh, in general, tangible and real. therefore, for russia, for which the ongoing war has, as they say, russian leaders have an existential character. i am confident that it is possible to convey this simple idea to the united states

, both for the leadership of the united states and for the wider elites and for the public, especially since in the united states of america, next year. uh, presidential elections will take place. and we must assume that this information can be very important during the elections. that's what you are they said about vietnam, uh, about the war, uh, in korea in the early fifties. this is the honest truth, uh, and there the soviet union supported the side that was hostile to the americans and yes, they shot down american pilots, but many thousands of american soldiers were killed in vietnam and korea. i'm talking a very big difference. it was absolutely far from the american borders. eh, for the united states these were

absolutely no existential questions and, most importantly, they did not strike or attempt to strike against north korea or north vietnam. on american territory no could strike at american territory. they could send some terrorists, just as ukraine is trying to send sabotage groups. and uh american diplomats and journalists. they were in many countries that would be quite accessible. uh, north korea well, this was not done. and now ukraine from my point of view. but if you like, she didn’t cross some invisible red line. and i don’t know what the red lines are. everyone has their own, but ukraine clearly plays by some completely different rules than those that were known to us in previous conflicts. you, dmitry

, have repeatedly written to the world times for many years about the expansion of nato and what this could lead to. you were not alone, i tried to do it too, there was such a loud voice like george canon, you know from the memoirs of bill behrens, the current director of the cia then, according to words in moscow that he sent washington telegrams when he was sent, where he warned about the danger of nato expansion and no one was heard specifically about the danger of escalation in the event of a conflict in ukraine. what do you think we'll do now to washington paid serious attention to this. well, it’s not for me to decide how it will be done, but i would suggest that the message that the message that russia would have to send to the american audience to different

levels of the american audience. ah, it would come down to the following: ukraine acts as it acts. the united states is trying to get involved in a direct armed conflict with russia because the actions that ukraine is carrying out and, uh, the practice that has developed on the ukrainian side, uh, are clearly and directly provokes russia with american weapons with the help of american information, uh, on the basis of which decisions are made, also with the participation of americans. and that this could lead to a situation where the united states itself could be under attack or american uh, bases or american wars serving in different regions of the world and this simple idea that the united states will not be able to wage a war with russia for free,

i would try to convey to the american audience. not yet. i don’t think she fully realizes this, at least how this can be done. there is a whole series here, by the way, the central question, because my fear is that the most convincing analytical warnings, and without any exaggeration they are simply called facts, that if this is at the level of words, that it will be ignored by washington. i agree with you, that’s why it’s not about words, it’s about actions. well, suppose that after the death of the cruiser moscow, the flagship of the former. unfortunately , the lost black sea fleet were actions were taken against some american targets. abroad, i think

this could give american strategists pause at a very early stage. uh , the same can be said about the explosion, uh, that destroyed the explosions that destroyed the nord stream one and nord stream 2 gas pipelines. many american colleagues now , well, not now, but some time ago , asked questions. why don’t we see any retaliatory actions from russia against our targets? why doesn’t russia use, for example, cyber ​​weapons united the states are very vulnerable to this kind of weapon and yet. this remains in the reserve of russian foreign policy for now, the reserve is very large; russia has accumulated a large debt to those who allow ukraine and uh, directs

ukraine against russia, allows it to act the way it acts, so the question, of course, is not for ana. i have a question for the uh experts, the top leadership of russia , but it has obviously defined its strategy and is implementing this strategy. well, uh, in this case i understand the top leadership of russia well. of course, i don’t know them plans are in detail, but it is obvious that actions will be justified by opposition, it is obvious that if russia took those steps that are quite accessible to the russian leadership, but those steps that would clearly demonstrate, uh, to the biden administration that uh this time, what is it called? as they say in america, russia minsk is business, and russia is serious. and that the russians, uh, the warning cannot be ignored, there are a lot of things that can

be done, the list is quite long and you are right. eh, they talk about this in america analytical some notes, there are articles in leading newspapers that say, why does russia have so many opportunities for some reason. eh, russia is not ready to take these rather decisive steps, which were to some extent expected from russia and make this very dangerous from my point of view. the conclusion is that russia either cannot. or it doesn’t dare, and dmitry, from my point of view, causes escalation, because escalation can be achieved when both sides, as if responding to each other’s steps, are blind, escalation is achieved by one-sided escalation, when your opponent uh, came to the conclusion that for one reason or another they don't need

to worry about their impact, and you were talking in uh, from my point of view. uh, it’s very correct that the big problem in russian policy towards america is that now there is a fear factor of fear on the american country, which existed uniquely during the cold war. and yesterday, uh, i avoided talking about fear, because it could always be used against russia and say that russia is intimidating, but i called this would be a healthy respect for russian capabilities and determination. and when it begins to seem to them that their leadership is afraid of russia, then, apparently, they are not fully informed by american research. let's look at a very interesting study by a group that

does a lot of research work for us intelligence. this is a psychological portrait of president putin. you analyzed putin's speech leading up to the invasion of ukraine and also on the day of the attack. what is your conclusion? we have developed technology for identifying ten different emotions. it can analyze text audio or video on february 21 and 24, vladimir putin made two addresses to the nation, we analyzed these speeches using our program in both speeches. one could observe intense anger, disgust and contempt. these are the main emotions that putin experienced during this and in both speeches there was absolutely no fear. and the note goes on to say that they looked at other performances and other actions. and what of the world leaders, and vladimir vladimirovich putin is one

a person who is afraid. in general, it is not inherent. and in russia there are very serious opportunities, which the united states knows about. well, please advise what could be done to make washington understand this. well, it’s difficult for me to advise anything. here. i am the only one who can say, i think you will agree that everything that we are talking about now, what very many in the russian expert community are talking about on your programs, well, uh, and in general. eh, that's it. that's good. it is known to president putin that president putin has. eh, without any doubts about his strategy, is this an operation or is it his e of this armed conflict. for whatever reasons he takes some steps and does not take other steps, he is unlikely to

tell anyone, he talks all the time. this is where i disagree with you for the first time. he says that he does not want to cut social benefits, that he does not want the quality of russian education to deteriorate. this is understandable, so that as much as possible there would be a normal life somewhere, perhaps including moscow, and it seems to me, it seems to me, that these kinds of considerations are absolutely legitimate and very understandable to the overwhelming majority of the population, but the problem is that the reasons for russian restraint are serious or real. but i am afraid that in washington they are interpreting them in a completely wrong light and that this could lead to serious consequences. well, i think that uh here i agree with you that president e is not

trying to. uh , obviously he doesn’t even want to put the country under martial law, he doesn’t want to change it, familiar to millions and millions of russians, but a way of life. um, in general, he wants to keep things normal. he wants to preserve the peaceful state for the vast majority. citizen of the country. he doesn't want it to be an emergency. but those questions that you asked before were about something else, they were about: why aren’t the bridges destroyed? why aren't the tunnels destroyed? why not destroying and so on? that is, purely military questions to these questions. i have not heard any responses from the country's political or military leadership. from which is why i conclude that they are well aware of all this, what is being said about

them here, what is being said about them in washington, but they have their own line, a strategic one , and they are determined to follow this line. the president and he is responsible for it, the president looks like. and very confident to everyone, very calm. and this gives him a complete absence of any uh nervousness in connection with the way the war is going on. so, american studies were quoted as lacking fear. yes, but fear, this is such a thing, fear is necessary, as if a person is fearless, then he can take some irreparable steps. this is different. this is different. this is different. that 's why i would say that he has no nervousness; he, of course, is not afraid of anyone in this sense. yes, it’s true that yes, it’s true, but this is the strategy that

the president follows and which, as he imagines himself, will lead the country to victory and fulfill the tasks that he set at the beginning of the operation. i'm expressing my guess. this is not advice. uh, russian management. these are not recommendations for action. and this is just an observation. i think that in washington they don’t understand how russia works not like the russian leadership, i think i think that this is not understanding. and uh, if you like, some kind of arrogance and intellectual arrogance. they pose a very great danger to both america and the world community. they

really think that despite everything that has happened recently. they really think that they are the rulers of the world. let's listen secretary of state blinkin, who headed the state department after the second world war and participated in the formation of a new world order, noted that history is written backwards, and is lived forward, of course , based on asan’s words about another turning point, but they are true for any period of deep uncertainty, including the current one . a solution for a while. it was necessary to accept what seemed obvious, and the consequences to which they should have led to the inevitable, but it doesn’t work that way. reality is hazy. the rules that created illusions of stability and predictability are no longer something to be taken for granted, any line of behavior has its risks, many things. we have lives at stake beyond our control and yet even in times like these it would be right to say, especially in times like these, waiting until russia is in the fog in order

to choose a course for politicians would be too great a luxury that they cannot afford . we must act and act decisively. we must become the engine of history, as achin did in zizinsky and other great strategies that brought america through the tipping point. we must take the helm of history and chart a course guided by things that are clear and in troubled times, our principles, our vision for the future and the reliance on our allies because of this, when the fog clears, a new world will be freer and safer, and the international community will be able to rise to the challenges. of its time. the engine of history, by the way, is the helm and note that he mentions the georgian, but he doesn’t mention the kisinchera, but he’s a democrat, he was democratically, uh, a supporter of reality reality politics. belinsky had

his own polish scores to settle. with russia and so, when i heard in moscow, and that blinkin wants the united states to pursue the presidential line, i'm starting to get a little worried about the real understanding in the biden administration of what they might come across, in fact, they came across the failure of its strategy towards russia is a very big failure. and my impression is that uh, both blinken and the advisor national security jake sullivan is now in some kind of situation. uh, thinking, maybe you’re at a loss as to what to do now, when there’s an offensive or counter-offensive by ukrainian troops, on which a lot was staked in washington. and it turned out that we started today’s conversation , it turned out to be unsuccessful, to put it mildly, and here’s what to do next not really , it's clear. yes, they

really, uh, have lost, so to speak, e to a certain degree of feeling. understanding of russia if there was such a thing, but i think for some period time was present in the united states and they acted and continue to act somewhat quite. be careful: they are collocation, let alone escalation. this is the one-sided one that the administration is carrying out. it's uh, so careful at the beginning. eh, one type of weapon, they looked at the reaction, then a more powerful type of weapon, looked at the reaction and so on, then they announced something that maybe, this is being discussed until a decision is made. then after some time a decision is made. uh, number of tanks or uh missiles that the united states is providing to ukraine uh calling the ukrainians. e. well, let's just say bewilderment. this is

not enough to achieve any meaningful success. so the american side is also acting. well, let's put it this way. you are being cautious, escalating the situation, and unlike the russian side, which, in my opinion, imagines the goal of the operation, and it has not changed this goal from the very beginning. although specific parameters of how this goal can be achieved. they certainly changed during the year and a half of war, but for americans. the incomprehensible goal of inflicting a catastrophic strategic defeat on russia or coming close to it means provoking russia into a nuclear strike , they don’t understand the doctrine, so they want to inflict defeat, but such a defeat of russia that would not lead to russia using its nuclear weapons. but uh, they don’t understand that here in russia

they are well aware of the uh price of a hypothetical, supposedly some kind of strategic defeat, which could lead to very serious internal uh internal destabilization in the country, therefore truly an existential conflict. and so the americans, who are striving to defeat russia but are afraid that this victory or approaching this victory will cause such a blow to the united states and their ally, which will devalue absolutely everything, they don’t really understand what to strive for? they don't really understand. what should they strive for or what can they afford to strive for, and they don’t really understand what they might run into. from my point of view, this is a very big problem of the inadequacy of the american a foreign policy elite that truly believed in its own

rhetoric of not only american chosenness, but also american permissiveness. dmitry, thank you very much. thank you. thank you for this, and now we’re leaving for advertising, we’ll be back in just a few minutes. if we can explore its phenomenon using scientific methods , then this will become a step towards understanding the phenomenon of god. but what vanga said about today 's russia in the early 20s of the next century , a terrible disease will come to earth from the yellow people. she also sees invisible. she knows what ukraine doesn't know oh-oh there will be a conflict between two neighboring prophecies on saturday

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, it is even difficult to imagine that the relations between the leadership of the two countries was completely different, and in general there were not only business contacts, but even some positive personal emotions at a high level, despite the most serious disagreements. let's look at a very interesting scene. the white house basement office. this is the table of the president of the united states . a little girl is sitting at the table. and now she is no longer quite small. at this table her name is ekaterina dobrynina, she is the granddaughter of the then ambassador of the soviet union to the united states anatoly dobrynin well, uh,

dobrynina had a very good relationship with administration. uh, nixon, despite serious political contradictions. well, here's what's really interesting. the one we talked about in the first part of the program was the national security advisor to president carter , and let’s say, delicately, he was a russophist. what did he himself not really hide? but let's look at other photographs with ekaterina ekaterina on a horse, and standing next to her, a smiling georgian man , this is happening to him, i don’t know how to say the farm of the estate. but even better, standing next to him is the same smiling ambassador anatoly dobrynin: there were times and such relations existed and

they were able to share a serious geopolitical struggle. excellent contacts and when i talk about personal contacts. i don't mean making personal contacts to have a good time. i hope you had a pleasant time too. but the main thing, of course, was not this. the main thing was that precisely because of the fundamental contradictions between moscow and washington, it was especially important to have normal communications , normal personal relationships and understand each other. this is what nixon wrote about this in his memoirs, on february 17, the ussr went , anatoly dobrynin arrived in billudom on his first official visit. i told him that i would like to have completely open communication with him and with the leaders of his government. and you and i, mr. that word, recognize the fundamental differences that exist between us, i said, we can settle them, or

we may not. i hope so. it will be, but you and i must at least make sure that there will be no disagreements between us due to lack of communication, kihenger suggested that we create a private a communication channel between dobrynin and himself. i agreed that dobrynin could be more forthcoming in strictly private and unpublicized meetings, and we agreed that he would arrive unnoticed through a rarely used door in the east wing so that no one would know that they were meeting soon. they began meeting weekly, often over lunch, when dobrynin said his government wanted to start negotiations on arms control. i expressed my opinion that progress in one area should be logically connected with progress in other areas of memory. e nixon. there are a lot of references to dobrynin, i tried. find mentions of other ambassadors. they were not there, but dobrynin is mentioned 26 times. moreover, it is not just mentioned about him

; entire pages are devoted to conversations with him. what is very important is that nixon in no way creates the impression that anatoly fedorovich dobrynin came to him to bring good news and explain how the kremlin is loved by the white house. here comes, uh, approval and says the soviet union will never agree to reduce arms supplies and warned, that if the united states tries to resolve the conflict by military means, the soviet union will not allow this. or dobrynin comes to nixon and says, i was given instructions to frankly inform the president that moscow is not satisfied with the current state of relations between the ussr and

the united states and moscow believes that the president should be frankly informed that the current course is very dangerous and can lead to serious confrontation between our countries. these were the conversations, the conversations were very serious and there were sometimes notes very formidable, but nevertheless, but nevertheless there was an understanding that this was not at the emotional level. and this is at the level of interests, that a conversation is possible and, as they say in this case, nothing personal ekaterina how did you end up? e in the united states and why did you spend so much time there? well, good evening dmitry, i have known you in absentia for a very long time, because i watched you as a little girl on american television and you see what vicissitudes of fate it is that now we

have met. eh, your grandfather is far from always i liked it for sure. yes, but nevertheless, you still have to give credit where they were always very careful in expressing them and there was never anything wrong on your part. so let’s say, not particularly unpleasant things, so i ended up in america very simply , my grandparents took me, when i was born in moscow and at 5 months old, like this little toddler , they transported me to the embassy and therefore 15 years of my life. i spent time at our embassy on sixteenth street in washington dc with my parents, who i consider them to be, respectively. this is how mine went childhood. do you remember how you ended up. in this house, of course, i remember being in the white house more than once, because my grandparents were like well, you yourself , i won’t even tell you how diplomatic political life was in washington in the seventies and eighties. it was just a sensation and everyone was constantly communicating and there were wonderful receptions. my

grandfather also invited me. well, i must give credit, of course , to my grandfather, because he was an incredible intellectual and an excellent conversationalist. and therefore he had very close close relations with presidents and vice-presidents. well, in quality. naturally lunch when we were invited to the white house, they simply took me with them, and especially if, like amy carter , president carter had a daughter, amy and i were taken accordingly. i even spent the night there a couple of times, but sometimes they took the white house just so i could run around as a schoolgirl while some lunches and dinners were going on. and uh, it was all, as i understand it, quite, naturally, like an ordinary good friendly relationship, not to say, of course, friendly, but close relations important in his memoirs and washed the memoirs of president nixon. now i'm quoting uh, close to the text memoirs of ambassador dobrynin he

describes how nixon invited him to the white house. and he said that he was very sad that brezhnev, who had already accepted the invitation to visit. uh, nixon at his home on the west coast. uh, there are sanctions in the pacific ocean , that brezhnev refused this trip, uh-huh , because the american senate imposed nixon and the kissingers, and some very tough and, from the kremlin’s point of view, unlawful interpretation of the concluded agreements on strategic offensive weapons and in fact nixon had to tell e the bitter harsh truth in his ancient communications that if moscow rejected these interpretations, then the senate would not ratify the treaty, but brezhnev naturally. i was not

happy about this, of course. and in general, this style of negotiations, when they bargained , they bargained, they couldn’t come to an agreement, they left , uh, a special formula that could be interpreted in different ways, and the senate takes it and says no. now the soviet union will be obliged to do as we do we interpret and damn it, he told me that under these conditions i will not go to the sanctuary. yes and uh. nixon, he says, the fertilizer has gone, but can you tell the log that i would be very disappointed if he could not come, because in san clementi this is his house on the pacific ocean. we would be away from who she is, he, as it were, made it clear, uh, and under the rumors of higher devices. he said it directly. i think that's what he meant, yeah, and we 'll have a much better opportunity to talk

one on one, and we need to talk not only about specific negotiations, but also try to have a broader one. understanding. more. you struck me in this conversation further, grandfather, he says, i understand this, so i will send a telegram to moscow with an invitation. and the invitation was accepted, of course, there are gorgeous photographs. yes, from there it’s definitely from this visit. well, somewhere he had such a capacity for persuasion, because i still trusted him. he knew very well, after all, the american establishment, and naturally they listened to him , including brezhnev, here is also a gorgeous photo, where at a reception at our embassy on the sixteenth.

uh, now, uh, this embassy is the residence of the russian ambassador, but, but it’s not being used for its intended purpose, because after the pogroms by leftist radicals 7 years ago. uh, this embassy was in a zone of unrest. and in general, nothing works there, nothing functions. eh, and now the possibility of this kind of intimate receptions has disappeared. well, in general , it’s also very strange, because in the eighties, if you remember, there was also poland, solidarity, which, on the contrary, 16 we constantly had some kind of protests about oleg walesa. and we even had a case where a girl told me that in the late sixties a bomb was thrown at the embassy , ​​specifically at the residence that is now located, so, of course, it’s a little unclear to me. why is there such a stir around the embassy now and why is

the situation really serious? why can’t we somehow set up certain posts there, so that there is some kind of security for our private property, in general. now, of course, the disgrace is happening, to be honest, so, of course, american relations and even rallies have become completely different, despite the fact that there were also very serious protests before, but now they look completely different and take a different turn. you were recently in the united states. you were recently in the united states. but i just saw ours, too, near the residence. i looked, everything , of course, is very sad from the point of view that i feel very sorry for our embassy and our employees and diplomats in particular our ambassador anatoly antonov because in fact well, they can’t do anything, they can’t work , they’re not in isolation, because it ’s such an unprecedented case that now the russian embassy is in such a state that it’s impossible to interact

at all. i understand, even in the current circumstances. there were people in the united states who were ready to see you, and i looked at the photographs. yes, they even received you with a happy smile, and the henryks, it’s true, really. i met henry kisor. and when i was just there, here i was brought at 5 months, there are the first you where i am , he holds me in his arms with my grandfather and henry kisoncher - this is really a true friend of my grandfather. strange as it may seem. this is exactly what we have been doing in the white house throughout our entire lives. he was always present and they had very close friendly relations until the end of their days. despite the fact that they were opponents, and very serious political opponents, they maintained this kind of friendship. i've known kissinger for many years. although, unfortunately, not close. eh, i