but the honest second most ancient mediator between the state and society, the fourth power, as soon as it does not name the profession, about which we will now talk. hello, today we have gathered our thoughts about what journalism is and how and what to teach journalists today. elena leonidovna vartanova is the dean of the faculty of journalism at moscow university, i will leave it to skvortsov until the end of the faculty of international journalism , institutes of international relations. i'm vladimir yakor hello dear friends. kind evening. i have a first question for you or

a pre-question, how? i call it there is such a stereotype that is unpleasant for our profession that they don’t like journalists , where did it come from and how do you personally feel about it or in the profession of a journalist there should be a question and quite often inconvenient questions do not like journalists for inconvenient questions. this is probably the first reason a journalist lives in a very fast world, he doesn’t always have enough time to prepare well for an interview or for some other, but a conversation with his own expert, so sometimes the journalist's questions are superficially hasty. this is also an objective second reason. well, the third, probably, is that it is not always easy for journalists to formulate. questions and the journalist what is probably wrong is that quite often he wants

to get some given answer, so journalistic questions are the reason for no love for journalists. i think this is the whole point, but this is part of the profession and profession. probably connected with these uncomfortable questions, so the journalist, uh, should be more careful in formulating it. maybe be more thorough preparing for an interview. in general, a journalist should be more professional. thank you left or some other reasons, uh, almost everything or what needs to be said, i would maybe add a little more. uh hmm well, since uh, you said that they don’t like them. i immediately have a question. and who doesn’t like, who, as rightly said, doesn’t like tough questions and likes those who know how to twist questions and get to the bottom of things, don’t like those who want to get to the bottom of the truth, no matter how inconveniently

uncomfortable, and maybe unpleasant for for some, it was not, so it seems to me that those people who, in principle, do not like to go deeper, who are not interested in key issues. who where when, what and why? they probably really have such a prejudice. well, what are you digging for? well, turn to someone. why am i the object of your research? why are you asking me questions? it’s not always convenient, it’s not always comfortable, if i try to get away from this issue, then you also twist it. it seems to me that the person who doesn’t need to hide behind some kind of mask for such people. it seems to me, at least with understanding. and maybe even with love. but i was listening to you just now, dear deans. and that's what i thought. since recent years i have been working more, so to speak. sorry about pr. i always meet with colleagues. i say that the press secretary is a pr person. he must like it. this, if you like, is a professional

requirement, yes, because, well, there are different people, there are people with negative charm. they can be very smart and very professional, but they don't have to be press secretaries. yes, and in connection with this i have a question, i’ll say the journalist must like it. look, if yes, here again , depending on who, although i didn’t want to agree with yaroslav, apparently, we still came from the same canons of journalism, so we share many things. so, ah, who should like a journalist, and should the audience like him, and perhaps because the audience, regardless of whether the journalist is a journalist, a tv person - a tradist or a writer, and the audience is the main thing for whom a journalist works. he

it doesn’t even work for the editor-in-chief, so it seems to me that a journalist should be liked, but he should be liked not as a doll, not at all uh hmm pleasant, but in all respects , a gentleman or lydia should be liked as an author, he should be liked as a person, creating his own journalistic texts. after all , the main thing is that a journalist should like him. this is his job and his job. you have to like him. where do we get golden pens, golden microphones, golden cameras from when a journalist creates his journalistic content, and the product has his journalistic content, which people need. so, then he immediately likes him involuntarily, so that in order of originality they call him silver feathers. everyone else in the editorial office was considered golden. by the way, about originality. it seems to me that this is again

about whether he said it correctly or not, it is not clear what it means to like. it seems to me that something should be interesting here. hmm, in principle, a person is interesting, you know, we don’t always calculate this in a predictable way. but there is one of the buildings. now i don’t want to name him, who i really really loved even. i worked there for many years, and then after five or seven years there i already caught myself thinking. take this newspaper in your hand. i already understand about what , today she will be ironic about what she will be perplexed about, and i am not making discoveries by leafing through this publication, but part of the media complements this function, as the great bethel brek said, peace must remain peace. and this thesis gives me optimism; i did not make any discoveries for myself after meeting this journalist with this publication with this material. i show aside with you. i make discoveries all the time vladimir ivanovich well, of course, he is unpredictable, like everyone else. what are you doing. so here it

is. it seems to me that if the publication is for me as a consumer user, well, predictable and understandable, give me a description of their interests, so i like it, and in the sense of surprising. and to give food for thought , to offer some other angle of view , it seems to me that these qualities should be present, and i agree with the journalist and stubborn people to inform and analyze, i’ll hit it. i am for you lord old man cherrym to journalists, if i'm not mistaken, churchill said so , any educated european can be, lena, but i agree without education there are no journalists, and i would be a european, here i expanded it simply to the word person or man or woman. what do you want to say that an educated latin american cannot but

answer us? yes, we will fantasize a little for any educated person, but it seems to me that churchill, and not completely, as they now like to say, yes, he twisted this one. he didn’t say that he can write , he can structure text logically, he can check the facts. that is, if education includes all of this, then journalists, maybe any educated person who knows how, i ’ll add a twist here, knows how to analyze, inform, present, even convince, and many other things that a journalist does. they must be included in this concept of education. it seems to me that we are clear, that we are trying to be respectful, so to speak. eh, treat old man churchill, but still. uh, with this uh definition, yes, and we emphasize the word

any he isn’t he trying to say that in general profession as such. no, you are an educated person. there's a historian there. well, in general, you don’t need anything else, uh, and you don’t need to be able to be a journalist, but it seems to me that , as far as i understand, what churchill meant was an intelligent and intelligent person. well, of course, he probably meant it that way, although the euro southern europeans europeans differ in temperament, and therefore i would not concentrate on europe point absolutely right, all the more, let 's remember that, for example, in the times of service , i drew through, say, a country like portugal, which we now certainly attribute to europe, was not considered europe. she was somewhere there, on the sidelines, and so it seems to me that, in this case, defending her with an ermic one, but he did not cast a shadow, but on the profession, because these additions were educated and drawn with their lips. uh, european,

that is, an intellectual. well, you first become an intellectual, and then you can show yourself your knowledge, originality , your intelligence, including as a journalist , it seems to me that here he is not something that is not something that does not cast a shadow. on the contrary, he puts it very highly, because and the person who, according to churchill’s estimates , falls under the category of an educated european, using an exact quote of some kind . first, you try to reach this bar, but i think that he is casting a shadow, of course, he is maliciously also belittling journalists, because, after all, he has skills. i wanted to tell the professional we teach then. if this is a law that, like you, you started with this, as you correctly noted, which politicians do not need and sir, did not want,

to be constantly criticized , to be asked uncomfortable questions like yes, anyone can form an agenda, choose the main events, check the sources, find the correct interpretation of these events, of course, anyone and then he a hmm well, i think he just expressed some of his a -ah, no sympathy for journalists when he said that there is no such profession, but, what do you mean, sir? institute, that there is such a profession as politics, but look also, and politics, maybe the cook said another, damn, for this. well look, at the same time, there are still different traditions from the school, and in the same united american states, as they once

called, but still there is a school of journalism, which involves the colombian, yes , in my opinion, which you assume, that people who go there are those who have received an education. that is, the very educated ones. well, in this case, the americans. although i studied this in such few places, i met them very often, but nevertheless, they are already like an additional skill. yes, after studying journalism there for a couple of years, but there is still one. here is our classic university training for faculty of geography. that's what the difference is here. how should we approach this? well, i would say, so, probably, if you want, you can find, naturally, very different models, even it seems to me that in comparison with the united states you can travel a and notice the differences. uh, in the presentation of information in copper works with information, uh, in different parts of the country in different, let’s say, layers of society, as in any other large country. and it seems to me that these are essentially the case. why what?

i think we teach our students. we teach them to think, and to think, to reason soberly and interestingly, not just to philosophize. not just like, let your imagination run wild, but clearly, based on a good background. somehow already quoted. my colleague vladimirovich gogolda. he said our wonderful thing, which i often quote to my students. what is culture? this is a system of self-restraints, vladimir ivanovich, and so, it seems to me that these same restrictions apply. that is, that is, we develop their ability to think and reason formulate interesting questions. again , you and i, we often came across romanovich, it was an interesting experience traveling to mexico, very interesting. yes? it would seem that they are nearby states, and before that the northern states overlapped a lot, but a completely

different presentation, a completely different perception, and this is what actually makes the world interesting, the interests of our profession, that you see these differences. i told you michael that she had to go far, far away, so we're making an exception for you, but we can't. endless sorting through the family needs to make a decision. would you like someday live in another place in another city or in another house. i like it at home. i thought, everything will be just no, yes, but these are no good better than those, but what if i was wrong, and what does he know about your situation, nothing is a beetle michaels a dead beetle. he can no longer move. make it so that you can tell him that i will go to heaven

and sit next to the lord, truly understand, enough. this is not weakness. in the film one on one on friday on the first vtb team with you a free card with 10% cashback on everything get a debit card for life. fully coincidental sale , have time for the scarlett immersion blender for 399 double blanket vasilisa for 539

orange jam tsuek for 399 purchases with a rosbank credit card 120 for all this unforgettable emotions for 120 liters. a plane loan can be withdrawn on audio anywhere without interest at all, real opportunities. and we are all in the dungeon. each other without each other this is an uninterrupted connection beeline mobile internet for continuous communication with loved ones beeline on your side with pasta and mashed potatoes. only cherkizovo from the meat of its own savings card,

beneficial in any situation. surprise what is she always dad? it's great that we have a credit savings account. apply for a 120-day interest-free credit card, the most favorable in the country. i ordered a package of kefir and looked around the apartment. place your orders on the scooter and participate in the drawing for an apartment. the deposit is the best percentage premier with a rate of up to 12% per annum. i haven’t been on vacation for a year, and not

to chill out. i work, but they don't. what are you talking about about money? oh, i deposited mine in sberbank. there money works seven days a week, just like me. invest for free open the best deposit premier percentage and enjoy all the privileges of premier house click to search and purchase an apartment or new building, the largest database of apartments and a discount on mortgages. buy an apartment or a new building on domclick , the number one real estate service in terms of the number of advertisements for the sale of apartments, sbermarket. i give, give, give sides from cafes and restaurants for free. sber presents a cashback loan. allow yourself more every month

, return 2.5% of the rate with sber bonuses. thank you , hurry up to apply for a loan with increased cashback. collect more profitably with primer using pasta and mashed potatoes. only kirkim is unique , everyone needs their own unique approach to health. elena lenina vartanova yaroslavich skvortsov i, vladimir legoy yes, we gathered our thoughts about what journalism is. what and how we continue to teach journalists, yaroslavl you often say that one of the main skills of a journalist is the ability to ask questions. and do i have a question or not? do you agree with this? of course, of course, but it

should not be an absolute, dominant skill - the ability to ask questions. this is another skill listen to the answers here, journalists sometimes sag, and for this universal skill vladimir romanovich, a journalist in north south america in africa in asia in russia needs the ability to ask questions, the ability to listen to answers is also needed everywhere, but here is what conclusions a journalist draws from these answers. and how he compares it with the available material. this is, of course, a national tradition. i would say that journalism in general is a national product . it is a strange profession in terms of its combination of universal and national qualifications. you they said correctly in america in the united states of america there is a system

of journalism schools, and they are not always part of the university program - it’s more like you know this one. but no, this is nonsense, a high level. this is the study of mass communications. media is where the theory is, and at the level of journalism schools they teach practice. here's how to ask questions , get answers and formalize. it's all in the material. the russian tradition is different and this is probably due to a number of reasons, with the fact that we are a text-centric country, we love texts, and we are tourists in relation to our language. we need a literate language, because we understand literate speech, because we understand that the stove reflects the mentality of our people, so we teach the language at

the university level, this is the main thing, it seems to me that the difference is that we teach the language of literature and the understanding of the text. as a separate world with its own laws, a lot of new topics of questions immediately arise, but i want to ask something in yaroslavl. what to ask? and just push away from the phrase that one of the main skills is to ask questions, and under what conditions? the journalist may not ask questions, but offer answers or such situations are not a difficult question. i had a period when i was faced with the fact that especially freshmen. this was literally a few years ago, maybe just before the pandemic. here they come to the first year. you walk into the classroom and in front of you are all such young spinozas. they are absolutely convinced if there is such a person who knows the answer to all questions. and you start, what are you telling them, guys. look. what an interesting conflict the civil code was adopted, but this law remains so a legal vacuum arises so to speak. you ask us, he

will tell you everything now. that's what i said back, guys. you see, you shouldn’t know the answer to all the questions without anyone knowing them, maybe the central election commission is the only one, but, most likely, this is the audience. they are missing. here is the skill they have in formulating a topic to help you come up with good, smart , interesting, correct questions. and imagine a circle of those experts who will give their own options for answers to your invented questions , ask, but to return to the national tradition. it seems to me a very important idea. uh. here, look. we somehow differentiate. quite harshly or not harshly, journalism and journalism have been removed from the language. here is fyodor, our dear mikhalych . a writer’s diary is journalism in many ways, but journalism. you can call it, you know, if you remember the soviet, uh, system of even genres, and there journalistic genres

had a separate place, then we can say that this is the soviet theory of journalism, and it put journalism at the top of the profession. but this does not mean that any reporter in the snow or even a feature writer could write journalism in in which he had the right to express his opinion, the journalistic right to express his own opinion, but the fact is that people in russia really treat journalism with trepidation, because fyodor mikhailovich was not a journalist. he was a writer and a writer. it was possible to express your somewhat unobjective, even tendentious, nightly opinion. therefore , if we build a relationship between journalism and journalism, then journalism is a

creative profession with significant elements of craft. about journalism is a statement people who are moral. to a witch in society, yes, a statement, and there are enough statements on current topics, and those closely related to journalism with a current agenda, but this is still a statement by an intellectual, an intellectual, as you and i said, and and you and i will not find in any other country in the world such respect for publicists. in russia there is not even such a word in the english language - journalism. why is english important here? well, because the basic terminology is profession, it is very much tied to news, uh, clickbay. you

even all this comes from english, i would say english, and american english is even greater than american english, because the americans wrote those textbooks, and they were very simple and sketchy. journalism, according to which the world then began to learn, and through which these universal standards came, and then prokhorov appeared there, and somewhere in france, mcquill had its own authors, who added this national note, and the americans such were left with simple textbooks of the leninists which in this case i’m like, as if not was. this is strange, i completely agree. and you know, here, in the second half of all this, when i was finishing the trial, i first got into practice, then to work at a literary newspaper. here is the literary newspaper itself, and which has flourished in recent years , alexander chukovsky, you know. it’s a very interesting literary newspaper. among the employees there are many

members of the writers' union and you know, i remember very well it was such a wonderful responsibility. secretary. this is alexander chemoev, so i was there in his office , there was some text there, he said something like that. we there i pass on the materials to the strips and one of the greats comes in. now i don’t remember to write. their. vitaly is just saying, i looked at the photos for the text. he so calmly captions the photo of italy. i am a member of the union of writers of the ussr what is the caption for the photo, you know how to correct it, in general he says, this is how a member of the representative of the ussr should make such a caption for the photo for now for me, that any journalist, he just doesn’t have a jaw, that’s your professionalism to write to you the creator of a publicist . he doesn't seem to mean it. what yes what is it. here's a pussy photo, this is not for me. i have outgrown this; you must do it in such a way that it is used as an example by young women, truly intellectuals.

let's have some very interesting discussions for today. look, the internet has radically changed our lives and has had a rather serious impact on the profession. i'll try to be very brief. if something seems to you that does not correspond to reality, you are welcome to discuss, but it seems to me that the era of majors and large broadcasters, which could reach a huge audience, they created cultural phenomena. yes, i repeat, i don’t want to offend anyone, but such cultural phenomena as lps or the beatles in many ways. this is a product. here are the media environments of their time, without now evaluating the musical merits. but this is connected with the media today, look at what our situation is. i'm in my first year teaching a master class. eh, i give you a task. eh, to our young journalists, yes, to freshmen, when we are interviewing, but to choose some famous interiors, and my task is to agree with them that the freshman went and interviewed them. the result of which was the book that the rest of us did you or it was reviewed. thank you very much, but what i

’ve usually encountered over the past few years is that we have a small group of six, there are eight people. i'm talking guys. the main thing is that yours do not coincide. these are interiors. you will choose everyone, and then i will provide for you, so to speak, for them. yes, just like that a few years ago. and in these lists , names unknown to me began to appear in the last academic year from six selected interiors by students freshmen. i didn't know, i think, three of them. well, half of it for sure, but the problem is not only that i didn’t know them, but that the guys didn’t know those, so to speak, public opinion leaders who were chosen by their odnoklassniki. this is a radical change in the information field, as far as this should affect are our classical approaches to the educational process reflected today? this was a question, and

bloggers we are talking about bloggers, well, they were bloggers. this dish is some people from social networks who have opinions like they there, right? yes, in some ways this is a paradigm shift, in others it is not, because fragmented media have always been the most fragmented, even after gutenberg created the printing press , the magazine market became the most fragmented. and it is possible that we are now facing this micro-infringement. serves well the interests of his groups. our research shows that the influence of so-called bloggers separately on the mass audience is exaggerated by bloggers. they turn the audience into a super fragmented one and they can

satisfy the interest of amateurs very well. there, i'm not i know some urban rap or a-and fans of growing cacti, these audiences do not intersect today. or maybe they would n’t have crossed paths in the past. if journalists had such an opportunity to work for very narrow niche audiences, then a technical opportunity would appear. but from here there are some unpleasant conclusions, and the first thing that appears is information bubbles. echo chambers, different researchers and analysts call it different things, and people become isolated in their comfortable environments. they're so good. i don't know there this city turnip. in general, they get used to the fact that they don’t need a man. their general agenda. it’s also not satisfactory due to communication within the audience. here's to being with friends from here. we

come to this terrible cancel, couch culture of exclusion, because only in this wonderful world i don’t need other people, and i don’t want them, and that’s the second problem. in my opinion, the absence of hmm, this is a single thing that habermas called, but a public or public sphere that unites us all, so i also don’t agree with you now, when i say that the age of majors and bratcaster. these are these broadcasters. it will not go away as long as we have a modern state with its common features for the entire society, and look, i wouldn’t want to argue with you here, because they would be glad for it to be so, but look. i just have the latest examples. e. i gave an interview, it was related to the topic of transferring the rublev icon of the trinity to the russian

orthodox church and a colleague on the radio asked me, he said the society was split. this means that those who are for and against there is such a cultural catastrophe. i tell him, darling beloved colleague, first of all, society is split. just uh, your broadcast uh -huh and secondly, i talked to someone the day before yesterday. a. let's put it this way: young men of college age. he was neither a student at moscow university nor a student at mgim, but i casually mentioned this fact, because i was sure that they were talking about it from everyone, of course, this was said during the conversation . it turned out that he not only had not heard about this fact , but he doesn’t know who andrei rublev is. and that there is an icon of the trinity. it seems to me that this is a consequence of the fact that here he is in this in his shell he has these micro-macrotomes, influencers and majors don’t get to him, vladimir romanovich, you are both right and wrong. because young people. yes , young people always have a slightly different level of interest and do a lot of research. it was shown

that after young people come to work they become more like this. a-ah, as it were, ah-ah, established professionals and citizens take part in elections , earn money and begin to become interested. by the way, this includes me too, so i think that after all, television while we live. our podcast is published in the general channel. look, they will watch and even children will compare their idea of ​​reality with television or television programs. they will watch them online, but it will be of course. and today we gathered our thoughts about what journalism is, what and how to train journalists elena vartanova? yaroslav skvortsov and vladimir left? yes we continue. let's take the era before the internet, when not all irons are talking. i remember from literature from

personal experience of such situations. and when in some family in some community, you can say, please forgive me, but a person who has not read kafka, he does not enter this house, and until you read it you will not meet this author or this artist. let us not continue our conversations, this was just this, this is the very fragmentation according to, as they say, sociology , the system is someone else’s. yes, yes, they are a group, and thanks. these same irons that spoke to the internet era. the spread began instantly, that is previously, you had to come into this general society , go in and be let in. now there is a feeling of being especially accessible. eh, something that young people easily fall for. and you know how from the series i wasn’t found in the search engine, which means it doesn’t exist in nature. maybe you passed the request incorrectly or didn’t go beyond 10. yes, absolutely right. yes, that’s why look at these

talking irons, just like you said. they create a certain sense of commonality. background. it seems to me that a is the most serious thing, and the influence of the internet is not only on copper, but i in general, our life is a feeling of lightness and accessibility. why is it deceptive, deceptive, when it seems like this is what they needed urgently for? only time do you realize that this is such an endless conversation. we all immediately light up here, but the information field is still changing seriously. here we are teaching students the rules of the three sources, but listen here in practice. let's be honest, the journalist has a dilemma of being the first without double-checking or publishing. then we sorry, but i won’t come now. this is not a hypothetical situation. i i remember how one federal media cleverly used a link. yes, a respected media outlet reported there about the death of a cultural figure who did not die, but they wrote that

a blogger reported about it. in general, they were legally protected. yes, he reported the blogs, then they also apologized to his wife, who said that the guys. stop. you see , these are the same things we get into all the time. in situations like this. yes. uh, if, after all , the classic information field of a journalist is obliged to check facts, then today we got to the council when they read it. here is another real example: we had one large church event. a big tv boss calls me and says, volodya, i just read it in the federal news agency. about this and that, well, connected with our event. if you confirm, i will broadcast this. can you imagine that 20 years ago. someone would say that the agency wrote it and the person double-checks it. but this was impossible. i was listening to you now, vladimir ivanovich. look here, don’t you think that, uh, there are two problems that

overlap very closely. the first is, uh, the emergence of the internet and the flowing consequences. the second is commercialization. how are you? did you say it correctly? so i'll be the first. oh, i'm hyped. but i got it. then it’s a matter of work, as my colleague told me, the chief told me. here is the edition. it ’s either there, i don’t remember, now it’s almost 100,000 a day, or we’re closing your thematic editorial office. and what should i do there for the sake of clickability of headings. at the very beginning of this story, uh, you touched on a lot interesting topic. uh, regarding uh, presley beatles yeah. but look how interesting it is. here. uh, as far as i remember, the most published and replicated, uh, in the world of composers, i could be wrong and i haven’t looked at the latest measurements. and, in my opinion, this is one of the beatles. wait, this means that all the world classics. she's somewhere overboard. look at the speed, and

the eagle spread of citations, background mentions, and everything else and some basic things. here's how they are leveled out. you and i know very well that there is, as it were, a european american school school duties in a fight. if we then apologize, we will apologize and the concept of respectability is the same file times , it’s scary to imagine that i will apologize for making a mistake, how the editor in chief reacts is not the main thing. the main thing to write first is to write on time, but this is very wise, but today we have such formats as augmented news. it's still okay, but it's serviceable. but this is our situation, unfortunately, so we will have to gather our thoughts, probably more than once. i have one last question for you. i would like you ask to dissuade a person who is going to become a journalist, that is , turn to him and say that

you don’t need to become a journalist if you well, then do as you wish. don't you want fame? you don’t want big money, you don’t want popularity, you don’t want to live all the time. uh, in drive , always in some kind of movement. you don't want to be in the center of things all the time. don't go into journalism. thank you, you are not interested in what is happening on the next street on the outskirts of this city in the next city in the next republic in the next country in another on the continent, you can still live without news of ideas for more than two or a week , the juices with which you cook are quite enough for you and you have nothing to share with others, you are not interested in the world. and you’re not interested in the world , didn’t go to see what’s out there. thank you dear friends.