[000:00:00;00] and returning to the usa, he promoted soviet culture there, not so much even propagandized as he studied it in a serious sense, that is, he popularized it and wrote books about soviet cinema, and he just collects all the material, it goes to the museum of his art in new york, and leida builds something like what we would now call a presentation, that is, individual frames with explanations of what kind of frame it is, but for about eight hours, well, less anyway, and he... arrives - in the late fifties in the soviet union, already the thaw, so he can come, and he shows the movie in the house on vgik, with his comments, everyone understands that this is not a legend, that the film was made and that something needs to be done about it, in general, after that negotiations begin , and the museum of modern art in new york makes a copy for itself and leaves it, but the original, the negative itself, is transferred to the soviet

union. where - aleksandrov, the only surviving member of tise’s film crew at that time, died ten years earlier in the seventies, aleksandrov was editing his option, in general, of course, it may not be an ideal reconstruction, but at least he himself appears there in the frame, and this is such a comment, on the one hand, this seems to be alexandrov’s memory of the trip, on the other hand, his a story about the film, by the way, we can look at the already elderly alexandrov looking at the material. actually, yes, of course, this is how grigory vasilyevich’s fate unfolded, he started with esenstein with ezenstein he finished his work, but it seems to me that the image i also need to mention it, because he goes through this story in a very interesting way; in fact, he started in

new york. but then he listened to esenstein's lecture in america and realized that he needed to study with esenstein. esenstein went to mexico, returned to moscow, and leida arrived there and entered that workshop, which actually became the main one for esenstein. and with the help of teaching, he, in general, came out of this drama, even the tragedy with mexico, we have a memory of the same leida, how he was such a boy who came from quite another culture, says: “sergei mikhailovich, what does all this teach?” “don’t make a new film, according to him, later, he grabbed his stomach so much and said how can i give life to a new film if i haven’t given birth to the previous one, and leida writes down what a fool i was that i even reminded him of this , and for leida it was also such a living connection , yes, he completed a course with the master, but he did not stay in the soviet union, did not become a director, he returned, and then not only accumulated information there, he

translated texts from einstein into english, he was the person who published esenstein’s first book, something that esenstein wanted to do for so long, he even went to europe with a draft of the book, he wanted to release it even then in 209, but it didn’t work out, it didn’t work out, it didn’t work out , new films, in general, it’s very interesting that this image that he brought up in a conversation with leida, it’s very biological in a sense, and this is the biological principle in a person, which is also... very important, isenshtein after all, he opened it in mexico, in many ways, here he has the first short story should have been dedicated to just such a person’s natural sense of self; in general, it must be said that the optimistic thing , the only thing in the situation with the material, is that it lives and from it many people then assembled different options, for example , cinema vet oleg kovalov in 1998 edited the film sergei zinshtein mexican fantasy, this is its own interpretation of this material, there may

be other... interpretations, in fact, since now in digital culture that’s all much simpler, another thing is that here, of course, it is important how a person approaches this, because there may be some distortions, in general quite ridiculous, and we know how one of the filmmakers, turning to this story, could do this and turn it inside out, another thing is that this material exists in this way as a result, just like a film from einstein... these are the frames that we see, they move from film to film, like quotes, like quotes from poetry, in general -in one place appears in another place arise, and like certain aphorisms, and one way or another we can get acquainted with them from alexandrov’s assembly, from the editing version of oleg kovalov, from the film that mary sitton once made in america in the late thirties, and finally from this presentation , jayley, in general, in its various

guises this film continues to live, but it seems to me that everything is important - esenstein was inspired to write more by this foreign trip, he began to work more with texts, and here not only was born... an important theoretical book, a method that is generally as basic as he himself defined it, and such a foundation of problems, that is, the support that is for his theory, yes, on the other hand, when he writes memoirs at the end of his life, it’s simply wonderful a literary work that, i think, our viewers, if anyone hasn’t read, will read with pleasure, and this book is not structured like an ordinary memoir, where a person describes... his life sequentially, it is dedicated to only two periods: childhood, when he accumulated impressions , generally, such a story of the accumulation of impressions, this is the story of how a person learned to think in images, and is told absolutely vividly and laconically in short individual phrases

; on the other hand, a foreign trip, the second period of accumulation of imprints, it turns out that in fact we can take from ozenstein not only from the finished to study him from what he had completed, but also from what he had just conceived, from what he had outlined, when they say, in fact, why everyone was rushing around isenshtein, why he was so interesting, why everyone was jumping around him, why was he invited everywhere, and why is he so important, why is he so important now , what did he teach us, yes, it’s very difficult to answer, because well, editing, they edited before him, they edited after him, yes, he showed very important editing techniques, but this not the only thing, yes, he spoke about sound, yes, he looked at color, yes, he spoke about culture, how different layers of consciousness are combined there, but he is something like newton, who came up with, didn’t invent, expressed , yes, expressed, is gravity exists

- the law of universal gravitation, and we just we continue to exist in this world, physically, simply, we don’t think, oh, newton came up with it, why is this important, he just set the parameters in which we are really present, for me ezenshtein is a person who is so... reassembled the kinetograph montage, then how we understand a work of art, then how we create it, if we were to talk about why watch the film hail mexico now, then my answer would be in order to understand how something is created, yes , how can it not be fully created, how can it then exist in itself, as in this journey we see, well, we see mexico , let’s say, ethnography, and we see not only what it is, we see it through certain eyes, we see it through the eyes of tise, and through esenstein’s ghazal, when the film had not yet been edited, when people saw other people’s edited versions, they said, but

it’s all the same, we understand that this is ezenstein, because we see how the shots are constructed, it cannot be anyone else, the work is independent from how it is mounted, and we... the world through the eyes of these people and we can, at this stage and a half-finished film from the edited later, somehow penetrate into the workshop, into the kitchen, this is, in general, just incompleteness, but we know from einstein from the texts, from photographs, from memoirs about him, and we know what a living figure he is, and in fact, when we see that this material has not yet been edited by esenstein himself, and despite the fact that it will never be edited by esenstein himself, unfortunately, but nevertheless we are present all the time as if next to him, that is, thereby we find ourselves truly involved in his laboratory, in his creative process, and this is probably the most interesting thing in this case,

this was the podcast ezenstein-125, film historian natalya ryavchikova and kin arrtem sopin, goodbye . the second oldest, the mediator between the state and society, the fourth estate, as it does not name the profession that we will now talk about. hello, today we have gathered our thoughts about what journalism is and how and why today teach journalists? elena. vartanova, dean of the faculty of journalism of moscow university, yaroslav lbovich skvartsov, dean of the faculty of international journalism of the institute of international relations, i am vladimir, hello, dear friends, good evening, i have a first

question for you, or a pre-question, as i call it, there is such an unpleasant stereotype for our profession, about the fact that they don’t like journalists, where he came from and how you personally feel about him, elena. a journalist must ask questions, and quite often uncomfortable questions. doesn't like journalists for asking awkward questions. this is probably the first reason. journalist. lives in a very fast world, and he does not always have enough time to prepare well for an interview or some other conversation with his expert, so sometimes the journalist’s questions are superficial, hasty, this is also an objective second reason, and the third, probably, is something that is not always easy for journalists to articulate. these questions, and the journalist, which

is probably wrong, quite often wants to get some kind of given answer, so journalistic questions are the reason for the dislike of journalists, i think that’s the whole point, but this is part of the profession and the profession is probably connected with these uncomfortable questions, so a journalist should, maybe... formulate more carefully, maybe prepare more carefully for the interview , in general, a journalist should be more professional, thank you, are there any other reasons, almost everything, elena has already said, i could maybe add a little more, but since you said he doesn’t like journalists, i immediately have a feeling question, who doesn’t like, who, as she rightly said, doesn’t like sensitive questions , doesn’t like those who know how to twist questions, get to the bottom of things, don’t like those who want

to get to the bottom of the truth, no matter how inconvenient, uncomfortable, and maybe unpleasant for some it was not, so it seems to me that those people who, in principle , do not like to go deep, who are not interested in key questions, who is where, when, what for, probably they really have such a prejudice, well, what are you digging into? , well, turn to someone else, why did i become an object your... research, why are you asking me questions, it’s not always convenient, not always comfortable, if i try to avoid your question, then you also twist it, it seems to me that that person who does not need to hide behind some kind of mask, uh, such people, it seems to me, treat journalists with at least understanding, and maybe even love , well, i was just listening to you, dear deans, this is what i thought, since in recent years i have been working more, so to speak, sorry in pr, yeah. always, when

i meet with colleagues, i say that a press secretary, a pr man, you have to like him, this is, if you like, a professional requirement, yes, because if, well, there are different people, there are people with negative charm, they can be very smart, very professional, but they don’t need to be made a press-secretary. secretaries, but in connection with this i have a question, should the journalist be liked, depending on if yes, so, here again, depending on who, although they didn’t want to agree with yaroslav lbovich? but apparently we still came from the same canons of journalism, so we share many things, so here - who should like a journalist, and should the audience like him, and perhaps because the audience, regardless of whether it is a journalist, a tv presenter, a parent or a writer, and the audience is the main one for whom the journalist works, he does not even

work for the editor-in-chief , so it seems to me that a journalist should be liked, but he should be liked not as a doll, not as, uh, pleasant, in all respects, a gentleman or lady, he should be liked as an author, he should be liked as a person who creates his own journalistic texts, after all, the main thing is what should a journalist like? this is his job and he should be liked by his work. where do we get golden pens, golden microphones, golden cameras? from there, when a journalist creates his journalistic product, his journalistic content that people need, then they like it, forgive me, but i laughed, because dovlatova immediately involuntarily said that we are fine originality were called silver pens, everyone else in the editorial office, by the way, regarding originality,

it seems to me that this is again about, linaledovna said correctly, what does it mean to like, it seems to me that he should be interesting, as in principle a person, you know, is interesting - it’s not always predictable, we calculate it, there is one publication, i don’t want to name it now, which i really, really loved, even in i worked there for many years, and then after 5 or 7 years there i caught myself thinking, picking up this newspaper, i already understood the world remains the world and this thesis gives me optimism, i did not make any discoveries for myself after meeting this journalist , with this publication, with this material, i show in side, with you, with you, i make vladimir’s discoveries all the time, you don’t know the next question, well, of course, it’s unpredictable, like

everything you do, so, it seems to me that if the publication, that’s for me as for consumer, user, if it is predictably understandable. to me, then i lose interest in it, so i like it in the sense that it surprises, but gives food for thought, offers some other angle of view, these are the qualities that, it seems to me, a journalist, a pr specialist, a pr person should have, i agree , inform and analyze, i will hit to you, gentlemen, old churchill, a journalist, if i'm not mistaken, churchill said so, anyone educated can be... i agree, without education there is no journalist, i would expand the european here, just to the word person, or man or woman, but what you want to say that an educated latin american,

it’s impossible, churchill will no longer answer us, yes, we ’ll dream up a little, any educated person. but it seems to me that churchill did not, as they now like to say, complete this story, he did not say that he could write, he could logically structure a text, knows how to check facts, that is, if education includes all this, then any educated person can be a journalist, who can, here i’ll add a phrase, who knows how, the things that a journalist does, they should be included in this concept of education, well, it seems to me that we understand that we are, so to speak, trying to treat old man churchill with respect, but still with this definition, and

let’s emphasize the word any, isn’t he trying to say that in general there is no profession as such, you are educated man there historian, you... in general, you don’t need to know anything else to be a journalist, well, it seems to me that as far as i understand churchill, he meant an intelligent and intellectual person, well, of course, that’s probably what he meant , although the southern european and the northern european differ in temperament, therefore, i would not concentrate on europe only , it’s absolutely true, especially since let’s remember that , for example, during the time of serchill, let’s say a country like portugal, which we now certainly attribute to europe, europe not they thought she was somewhere there, on the sidelines, so it seems to me that while defending churchill’s brimstone in this case, he did not cast a shadow on the professionalists, because these additions, formed through the mouth

of churchill, are a european, that is intellectual, well, first become an intellectual, and then... you can show yourself, your knowledge, your education, your intelligence, including as a journalist, it seems to me that here he is not what he is not something that doesn’t cast a shadow, on the contrary, it’s very high puts, because the person who , according to churchill, falls under the category of an educated european, using the exact quote, as you did, you first reach this bar, but watch. that he is casting a shadow, of course, he maliciously belittles journalists in this way, because , after all, there are skills, magazines, what we teach then , which, as you started with this, as you correctly noted, which are not needed

by politicians, and sir wanted to be constantly criticized, to be asked uncomfortable questions. like yes anyone can anyone, formulate an agenda, select the main events, check sources, find the correct interpretation of these events, of course , anyone, and here he, well, i think he simply expressed some of his dislikes for journalists when he said that there is no such profession, what do you mean, sir? that there is such a profession as politics, but look, politicians too, and politics can be cooks, said another, the state. well , look, look, at the same time, there are still different school traditions, yes, in the same

united american states, like theirs once called, yes , after all, there is a school of journalism, which assumes, colombian, yes, in my opinion, which assumes that people go there, and those who have received an education, that is, those same educated ones, well, in this case, americans, although i when i studied there i met few of them, but nevertheless they were already like an additional skill... having studied journalism there for a couple of years, but there is still our classical university training for journalism departments, that’s the difference here yaroslavovich, how how to feel about this, well i i would say this, probably, if you wish, you can find really very different models , yes, even it seems to me that you can travel around the united states itself, see the differences in the presentation of information in the methods of working with information, in different... and parts of the country, in different, let's say, layers of society, as in any other big country, but it seems to me that in essence, what

, as it seems to me, we teach our students, we teach them to think, and to think soberly, interestingly, to reason, not just to philosophize, not just to give give free rein to your fantasies, and clearly relying on a good background, once already quoted , my colleague once said a wonderful thing that i often quote to my students: what is culture? this is a system of self-restraints, romanov, and so it seems to me that this includes self-restraints, that is, that is, we develop in them the skill of thinking, reasoning, formulating interesting questions, again, you and i often encountered, it seems to me, it was interesting. the trip to mexico was very interesting, it would seem that they are nearby states, and before that

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digital accounting. yes, you open a current account with ttb, you get more than thirty business services, you do what you love, not routine. vtb - we help matters for any business. elena lenidna vartanov, yaroslav lebovich skvartsov, i am vladimir ligoido, we gathered our thoughts about what journalism is, what and how to teach journalists. let's continue. yaroslavich, you often say that one of the main skills of a journalist is the ability to ask questions. and i have a question for elinenovna, do you agree with this? of course, of course, but this should not be an absolutely dominant skill; the ability to ask questions is also the ability to listen to answers. this is where journalists sometimes fail.

but this is a universal skill, vladimirovich, a journalist needs this in north and south america in africa, in russia the ability to ask questions, the ability to listen to answers is also needed everywhere, but what conclusions does a journalist draw from these answers and how does he compare this with the available material? of course national tradition, and i would say that journalism in general is a national product, it is a strange profession with a combination of universal national qualifications... you said correctly, in america, in the united states of america, there is a system of journalism schools, they are not always part of the university program, it is rather , you know, this, no, this is a pre, high level - this is the study of mass communications, media,

that’s the theory, at the level of journalism schools. they teach you how to practice, how to ask questions, get answers, and put it all into material. the russian tradition is different, probably due to a number of reasons, with the fact that we are a text-centric country, we love texts, and we are purists in relation to our language, we need literate language, because we understand, literate speech, because we understand that speech reflects the mentality of our people, therefore we teach language at the university level , this is the main difference, it seems to me, we teach language, literature, understanding the text as a separate world with its own laws, a lot of new topics and questions immediately arise,

but i want to ask about this, just starting from the phrase that one of the main skills is to ask questions, and under what conditions can a journalist not ask questions, but offer answers, or such situations do not happen, a difficult question, i was like period when i was faced with the fact that especially first-year students, this was literally a few years ago, maybe just before the pandemic , so they come to the first year, you walk into the classroom and in front of you are all such young spinozas, they are absolutely convinced that a journalist is such a person who knows the answer to all the questions, and you start telling them something. such an interesting conflict, they adopted the civil code, this law remains the same, a legal vacuum arises here, they look, you don’t understand something, you ask us, we’ll tell you everything now, that’s when i told them, i’m telling them, guys , you see, you don’t have to know the answer to all the questions, no one knows them, maybe encyclopedists, but most likely they are absent in this audience, the skill of a journalist is to formulate a topic, you can come up with

good, smart, interesting, correct questions and imagine a circle. ask those experts who will give their own answers to the questions you have come up with, to the national tradition , if we go back , it seems to me that this is a very important idea, look, we somehow differentiate - quite rigidly or not rigidly - journalism and publicity, yeah, you took it off your tongue, here’s our dear fyodor mikhailovich, the writer’s diary, this is journalism in many ways, but can you call it journalism? you know, if you remember the soviet, system, even genres, and there journalistic genres had a separate place , then we can say that the soviet theory of journalism, it placed the public at the top of the professions, but this does not mean that

any reporter, newsman, or even essayist could write... justice, in which he had the right to express his opinion, journalism, the right to speak, the right to express his own opinion, but the fact is that , indeed, people treat journalism in russia with trepidation, because fyodor mikhailovich was not a journalist, he was a writer, and the writer could express his own bias in something , even his tendentious, but personal opinion, so if we build a correlation between journalism and publicity, then journalism is a creative profession with significant elements, carried, and publicity is a statement of people who are moral authorities in society, yes, statements on current

topics, statements are enough, closely related to journalism, with the current agenda, but this is still the statement of an intellectual, an intellectual, like you and me they said, but “you and i will not find in any country in the world such respect for publicists as there is in russia, there is not even such a word in the english language, publicist, why is the english language important here, well, because the basic terminology of the profession is very strongly tied to news, clickbait even, all this comes from english, i would say english, and american-english, even more than american-english, because the americans wrote those textbooks, very simple sketchy ones, on journalism,

which the world then began to use learn from which through which these universal standards came, and then prokhorov appeared there, and somewhere mcquell, somewhere in france , their authors who added this national note, and the americans were left with about i, if possible, would give an illustration to the words of elina, to whom in this case, no matter how strange it may be, i completely agree, you know, i was lucky, in the second half of the 1910s, when i graduated from college, i first got an internship, then a job at a literary newspaper , that's the one a literary newspaper, which flourished in the last years of alexander borivichakovsky, and you know, it’s very interesting, a literary newspaper , among the employees there are many members of the writers’ union, and you know, i remember very well there was such a wonderful executive secretary , alexander moev, so i was there with him in the office there, some text brought something there, there are materials, i pass on the strips , one of the greats comes in, i don’t remember now, just the writers, he says, vitaly,

look, here’s a photo for the text, he’s like that calmly, caption for the photo, vitaly, i’m a member of the union of writers of the ussr, what’s the caption for the photo, alexander corrected it further and said, this is how a member of the union of the ussr should make such a signature. that any journalist, his jaw will simply answer, here’s your professionalism as a writer, creator, publicist, it’s like, it doesn’t mean that what is it, caption to the photo, it’s not for me, i’ve outgrown it, nothing something like this, you should do it in such a way that it will be used as an example for young journalists and they will say, yes, he really is an intellectual. very interesting reasoning us, let's get to today, look, the internet... has radically changed our lives and has had a rather serious impact on the profession, i will try to be very brief, if something seems inconsistent with reality, you are welcome to discuss, but it seems to me that

the era of major major broadcasters has passed, which could reach huge audiences, they created cultural phenomena, yes, i repeat, i don’t want to offend anyone, but such cultural phenomena as vessel beitles, in many ways, are a product media environment of his time, without currently assessing the musical merits, but this is connected with the media, today, look what our situation is, i’m in my first year, conducting a master class, i give a task to journalists, my young, yes, first-year students, when we we go through interviews, choose some famous interviewers, and my task is to negotiate with them so that a freshman goes and interviews them, the result of which is a book that we made, and you elena leonidna reviewed it, thank you very much for that, but look what i've been dealing with over the past few years, i've been dealing with, usually what happens is we have a small group. six there are eight people, i say, guys, the main thing is that these interviewers do not coincide with you, you choose everyone, then i will provide for you, so to speak , produce for them, yes, so a few years ago, these lists began

names unknown to me appeared last academic year, out of six selected interviewers, first-year students, i didn’t know, in my opinion three, well, half for sure, but the problem is not only... that i didn’t know them, that the guys didn’t know those , so to speak, leaders of public opinion who were chosen by their classmates, this is a radical change in the information field, how much this should affect our classical approaches to the educational process, and is it reflected today? it was a question, yes elena, and bloggers, yeah, we’re talking about bloggers, well, they were bloggers, they were some people from social networks who are influencers, public opinion, like onro,

mini tampers or something? it's a change paradigm, in some ways there is no, because fragmented media have always been, the most fragmented, even after gutenberg created the printing press, the most fragmented was the magazine market, and it is possible that now we are faced with this, micro-influencers are good at satisfying the interests of their groups, our research shows that the influence of the so-called. individual to a mass audience is exaggerated, of course, bloggers turn the audience into a super-fragmented one, they can very well satisfy the interest of amateurs there, i i don’t know, some kind of urban rap or people who like to grow cacti, these audiences don’t intersect today, maybe they

wouldn’t intersect in the past if there was such a thing..." journalists have to work for very narrow and niche audiences, that is, the technical opportunity has appeared , everything begins to fall apart, but there are some unpleasant conclusions from here. first, information bubbles appear, echo chambers, different researchers, analysts call it different things, and people become isolated in their comfortable environments, and not so well, i don’t know about this urban.. rap, in fact, they get used to the fact that they no longer need a common agenda, they are quite happy with the communication within the audience, to be with friends, from here we come to this terrible cancel, a culture of exclusion, because i am only in this wonderful world, i don’t other people are needed, and i don’t want them, the second problem, in my opinion, is the absence

of this unified, what habermass called the public or social sphere that unites us all, so i also don’t agree with you now when i say, that the era of majors and broadcasters, these ones broadcasters, it will not go away as long as we have a state, a modern state with its institutions common to the entire society , look, i wouldn’t want to argue with you here, because i would be glad for it to be so, but look, i just have the latest example, i gave an interview, it was related to the topic of the transfer of an icon, the rublev icon of the trinity, the russian orthodox church, and a colleague on the radio asked me, he said, society is split, which means who is for, who is against, there is tata, cultural disaster, i i’m telling him, dear, beloved colleague, firstly, society split only on your broadcast, yeah, and secondly, the day before yesterday...

i talked with one, let’s say, a young man of college age, he was not a student at moscow university , nor the student gimo, but i casually mentioned this fact, because i was sure that everyone was talking about it, as is now customary to say, during the conversation it turned out that he not only had not heard about this fact, but he had not knows who andrei rublev is and that there is an icon of the trinity, it seems to me that this a consequence of the fact that here he is in this shell of his, he has these micro-macro influencers there, the imagers don’t reach him. vladimir ramanovich, you are both right and wrong, because young people, young people always have a slightly different level of interest, and many studies have shown that after young people come to work, they become more like established professionals and citizens, they accept participate in elections, earn money, they