russia, at a referendum in april 1993, i approved by my decree changes and additions to the current constitution of the russian federation. they concern mainly the federal bodies of legislative and executive power and their relationships based on the principle of separation of powers. the federal government becomes the highest legislative body. basis, elections are scheduled for december 11-12 this year. let me emphasize that the early elections of the congress and the supreme council will create a completely new, supreme body of legislative power in russia. sounds in generally not bad.

even to some extent reasonable on the surface, there was a small problem , president yeltsin did not have the authority to call such elections, president yeltsin did not have the authority to change the entire system of power, and if he had any doubts about this, then in general -they should have disappeared after literally immediately after... this decree, decree 1400, the constitutional court of russia spoke, its chairman was valery zorkin, who is still the chairman now, and the constitutional court stated that the decree had no legal force, after which the supreme council announced the impeachment of yeltsin, and brought him to power as interim president,

when you saw yeltsin announcing this decree, was it some kind of surprise, shock for you, or was it you did you expect everything? this means that before these events, about a month ago, it was august, they brought me approval of draft presidential decrees, three decrees, i categorically... refused to sign them, why, because they were brought in your capacity as vice president, well, yes , with reverse on the other hand, i have to put in a visa that i agree, and then the procedure for issuing this document starts, why didn’t i sign, you know, it turned out that i ’m a literate person, i can read and i see that this is a direct, cynical violation of the basic law of the country, the constitution .

we all know the constitution very well, this is a law of direct action, any other interpretation other than what is written there is impossible, you mentioned that the constitutional court regarding this decision, which we just heard, i will correct you, i will allow to correct himself, he issued a ruling, where he indicated which articles of the constitution, the fundamental law of the country, were violated by the president. and in this definition, it is clearly stated that for violation of the constitutional articles of such and such , the president of russia, boris nikolayevich yeltsin, is subject to removal from his position, this determination was not made, not by me, not by parliament, but by the country’s judicial body, made determination of what is subject to this decision from the position held. you know, i was not on the side of parliament, i was on the side of the country's

law, of course, the fundamental law of the country, why, because until the ninety-third year, what was called privatization was plunder, the plunder of the country , the destruction of the industrial, agricultural, scientific potential of the country, because only a moron could not understand what was happening, but when the port of discovery goes under privatization for 200,000 dollars, can you imagine... when the achinsk alumina refinery sold for 300, when ural mash, which employed 3,500 workers, bought vouchers worth 500,000 for its property a famous oligarch, a huge plant, is passing over, well, those whom you call an oligarch, well, you need to go to no,

look at the biography, and we believe what kind of oligarchs they are, yes, so we agree with what was happening in the country, and yeltsin’s most important argument is the congress. in accordance with the constitution, this is the highest body of state power, and the representative functions of the congress, when the congress does not work, are carried out by the supreme council, also defined by the constitution, they oppose and interfere with the implementation of reforms, what was called reforms, gaidar, chubais, burbulsa, well, let's look in order, depriving the savings of citizens of the entire ... country to zero, so people had savings for old age there, buy an apartment, buy a plot of land, build a dacha, buy a car, people collected money , they were deprived of these savings, what is this? when at the start of the reforms, i was first

deprived, as far as i understand, not by laws adopted by the supreme council, but by individual decrees of the president, yes, now next, look, what? is happening, and how can you agree with it? they took away people's savings moreover, they started throwing money away, they didn’t pay wages for six months, for a year, military personnel were paid for six months a year , they were forced to earn extra money as taxi drivers, loaders, in order to somehow support their family, this is what reforms, this is what reforms, reforms are the path to the best, then at the start, again, the reform is releasing prices, price liberalization, i was reading just at that time, like john keynes’ book, the theory of the employment of interest and money, and there i found an interesting statement from him, he says that moving on to new forms

economic relations, starting with the liberalization of prices, this is the path to poverty, where we, in fact, were... already in the ninety-third year, and in order to then justify these crazy actions of ours, i emphasize the most important argument - this interferes with carrying out reforms, in the ninety-third year they shot the country's parliament, 5 years have passed, no one interfered, the duma, which by the way was elected at a time when there was no constitution providing for this... parliamentary representative body of power, was there a duma in the constitution, then it was called duma of the transition period, here are 5 years after the ninety-third year, the ninety-eighth year, how the country ends, default , default, the most shameful phenomenon in

the economy is the inability to pay internal external debts, in short, this is how it is with this, it sometimes makes me there is an opponent... like alexander vladimirovich, i say, okay, but how can you agree with this when you see that industrial potential is collapsing, agricultural potential is collapsing, and i reported to yeltsin, i say, boris nikolaevich, in order to create a farming system in the agro-industrial complex, and this is commodity production, we need a tractor, a machine, seeders, combines, that’s right, we need five budgets of the country. do we have them? general, i completely understand, and as you can probably guess, i respect your motives, but what interests me most now is what you thought would happen when you, and khazbullatov, and your

comrades, told yeltsin no, did you expect do you think this will lead to shooting in the center of moscow? you know, a little bit. i'll move away from your question, when by decision of the congress of people's deputies it was decided to appoint me acting, so that no one would later say that i sawed off someone's chair or put it down, i wrote a written statement that in the upcoming elections of the president of the congress of people's deputies, i will not participate i accept, here i am fulfilling my duties, this is all over, a new one has been elected. i wrote a written statement, it exists in nature, so i ’m not making anything up, no, i know this, and i can confirm that it was exactly like that, yes, but

you understand what the matter is, i have never in my life chased positions, orders, awards, so i lived as i live, worked as i work. i always tried to treat my work honestly and nobly, but when all this happens before our eyes, corruption begins to permeate all branches of power, they go through some kind of kickbacks, well, will a normal person perceive this correctly or not? by the way, we talked about this topic with president nixon, you were my guest, we talked about this topic, he approx. president nixon reasoned in the same way as i did when he was visiting you with kazbulatov, if you remember, he came as a military man and as the head of one of the largest companies, they presented their ideas to you. yes, what russia could do, these were reasonable ideas

and this is what you told him, and this is why they told him this, too, quoting sources, serious economic authorities, nixon was impressed that, contrary to what was said from the kremlin , you had, if not a fully thought-out program, then in general a serious agenda. and that agenda included a willingness to reform, didn't it? of course, well, again, reform is the path to the better, let’s open any explanatory dictionary, and we will assure you that this is the path to the better, but could it be possible to call what was happening the path to the better, zeroing out savings, privatization of cheap industrial facilities, basic industries, and recently, i don’t always turn on the tv, i turned on something, and chubais was giving an interview. and so he says: during privatization, we did not pursue the goal of finding an effective owner, because first of all

privatization is a search for an effective owner, that’s right, then receiving funds from privatization to place them, say, in social projects, in social programs, so what does he say, i quote verbatim, almost verbatim, he says: our goal was not to find an effective owner or profitably to sell objects, we had another task: to hammer a nail into the coffin of communism, this is what the minister says, you know, how can one agree with this, at least the majority of reasonable people agree with this people, including in the united states, if they understood what we were talking about, it would be difficult, but the main question today is why blood was shed, what the parties did, how... which country assumed that they would have to use

force, you expected that it would come to a military confrontation, when you abandoned, honestly, honestly, no, why, because when the media escalated the situation to instill in the consciousness of the country's population that this is not parliament, but extremists, that snipers supreme council they are killing military personnel, police officers, the civilian population, well, it’s a complete lie, yes, it was a complete lie, well, of course, then who started shooting first, now look when they seized weapons from the supreme council, and it was the security service of the supreme council, which was created by yeltsin, and of course, rushark was there, back when he was chairman of the supreme council, and so a pre-telescoping examination was carried out on the weapons seized from the supreme council, not a single person was killed, then who? shot,

the media promoted that, on the initiative of the supreme council, killing people on the street is a provocation and an invention, yes , now how, yes, how can one discredit the vice-president, who took the position of the law and parliament, they forge signatures in switzerland, open accounts, they sign trust agreements, again from the tv screen, what a scoundrel , vice-president, corrupt official... he has accounts, look, here is 10 million, here is 18 million dollars and so on, so on, so on, this also gets into people’s minds, and who settled there, especially vice-president, corrupt official, only 2 years later, this is eighty-five, early eighty-six, i receive a letter from prosecutor general skuratov, ninety, and ninety-six, a letter from prosecutor general skuratov.

the investigation is over, your signatures have been forged, the forged signatures have not been found, and they still stink in the duma today, one, and the well-known dima yakubovsky, and some journalists did this scam, yes, they were intensified, inflated to justify their actions, but when they started leningradsky prospekt headquarters of the cis armed forces, mr.... terekhov is doing the storming of this headquarters, but he was on your side, that's right, no, no, he later, he then disappeared, after the attack on the headquarters, it was confiscated... this weapon was on all machine guns, pistols, the numbers were ground off, cut off, there were no numbers, and terekhov disappeared without a trace, but this again became a splash in the media, so they killed a woman who was standing at the window in this spirit, so this situation escalated, uh, when i left

lefort and decided to write a book, bloody it's called autumn, well, it's quite a solid voluminous... material, there are no emotions , there is no expression of one's own opinion, there are documents of the supreme council, the congress of people's deputies, uh, decrees of the president, the government, audio recordings, transcripts, that is, i did this on purpose i made, that is, a book without emotions, so that everyone could read it, compare what happened and draw a conclusion from it. because it’s not in my rules to impose my opinion on someone, it’s wrong, that’s what a person thinks, that’s what i think i like your programs, when you act as a presenter, you also never impose your own opinion, you say what is, and let each person draw his own conclusions from

what is happening, that’s why we call ourselves a group, and people. but in our country, how has he managed to get to the top a little bit, he believes that he is the smartest, penetrated through and through by snabism, that is , he knows everything, can do everything, but this does not happen in nature, we agree, in that other country, of course , different versions of events, this is usually in this kind of confrontational situations, but there was one moment when your supporters clearly showed the main activity, and i mean... who gave this order, how did it happen? i’m standing at the window of my field office, i had a field office in the supreme council, it goes to kalinsky avenue , now it’s called new arbat, a huge mass of people in support of the supreme council and

the publication sef, this book, well, at that time it was the moscow mayor’s office. shots are fired at people walking towards the building of the supreme council, i see it all, well, what actions of a person, i i give the command to immediately catch these bastards who are shooting at people in this building, they failed to catch them, they left , it’s as if the confrontation has already reached its climax, but again, in accordance with the constitution, the people’s deputy, the vice president, has the right to express his opinion in mass media. and you know, a decision was spontaneously made to go to ostankino and demand the provision of airwaves, it was general makashov, who headed it, yes, but he cooled down a little, smoked, and i said, no, it’s dangerous, i tell makashov and khazbullat, this cannot be done ,

khazbulatov was almost hysterical, how can this be impossible, we have to get through everything else , well... i wasn’t the supreme commander, yes, he listened to khazbulatov, there were cars near the building of the northern fleet with keys, trucks, again it was all done smartly in this regard, provocatively, that is, these were not your cars, yes, the car is empty, yes, a truck, with an awning, the keys to start the engine in the car, there are no soldiers, take this car and go, these cars are from the supreme building. .. no one stopped the council from krasny presnya to ostankino, although in moscow, in essence, it was triple uncoupling, we arrived in ostankino, and now, in order not to invent anything, we take the archives, a video recording of what is happening on the square in front of ostankino, everything will become clear, the former, well,

he is general romanov, then he commanded the security of the supreme council here, his lord is god, you see, he is now a vegetable, yes, after being seriously wounded in chechnya, he gives the command to load akms and machine guns with bullets with a tracer. and when we watch the archival video, yes, we see where the tracers are coming from, not from the square, but from the windows of people located on area. who gave this command? makashov, should those who were in the ostankino building shoot at people? no, they started shooting the first one higher, of course, yes, an armored personnel carrier appears, it has a large-caliber machine gun, it’s called a kpvt, this is it... the turret spins and hits people who are in the square, i always say why do something to invent, especially since video recordings have been preserved, well , let’s see why, at least

for those thirty years of these terrible events, not show people what really happened then in front of ostankino, an investigation was carried out into a shot from a grenade launcher, they fired from a grenade launcher inside the building, and not outside. killed a soldier who was at the entrance to the door, a grenade launcher shot not from the street, but from inside the building towards the street, why was the investigation so quickly hastily curtailed and the case did not go to court, although the investigator called me several times, he said, aleksanovi needs to be remade interrogation reports, you have spoken to yourself about capital punishment, i won’t change anything, why, because, well, that’s how i well-mannered, i say what really happened, he brings

me the protocols of khazbulatov’s interrogations, well, it’s inconvenient to say anything , he says, well, look, you see, but you persist, i need to rewrite, redo the testimony, i won’t redo them, when i was released from lifortovo, i did not sign the amnesty, because when you sign an amnesty, you admit your guilt, which was my fault, i did not sign the amnesty, i published an interrogation report, because i didn’t even get my last salary from the position of vice -a president with empty pockets, here i asked the students, they loaded the trunks, went to the metro and sold my interrogation reports, well, such a little princess, you know, this is it. misunderstanding of each other of the heavenly kingdom of ruslan iranovich led to

the fact that then they began, through the media, to make excuses, to make excuses, i have never made excuses, if i am guilty, i say, i am guilty, if i made some mistake, i am not ashamed, i will apologize, why, because well, if i’m wrong, why not apologize, you don’t have to suffer from arrogance, we are no one immune from mistakes. so he started telling the story in the wrong direction, i called him, i said, ruslanovi, you saw my book, interrogation reports, he says, yes, i saw, i say, again, in the media, statements of this kind addressed to me, i i’ll publish your interrogation reports, that’s all over, he didn’t touch me anymore. and many others stopped touching, fearing that i might have copies of these interrogation reports, why did i publish

mine, and i have never hidden in my life from anyone who, that’s what i’m doing, i’m saying this, made a decision, yes i made a decision, that is, all the testimony is not recorded, published, i don’t know a single politician who would have done this after, general, you are generally an incredible person, i can especially with identify with you, because for many years the chairman of the board of directors of the center of national interests where i worked was general charles boyd, he was a pilot, a veteran of the vietnam war, for sure, and was shot down over vietnam, and spent 7 years in vietnamese captivity, in contrast from me smaller to fortunately, unlike john mccain, who also behaved in his own heroic way, well, he is peculiar, he refused to be released early because of how great his father was, it was like a very noble gesture,

but he gave confessions, boyd always refused, when all these events of the nineties took place, he was already a three-star general, then he became a four-star general, and was the deputy commander-in-chief of american troops in nato. and he watched your career, and he said that this is an amazing person, who was born three times, i feel the same way about what you did as a soldier, how you stood your ground as a vice president, then you had a new and independent political career, so i believe that you are a person, which deserves very great respect, but i still want to ask you, back , do you regret that you did not reach some kind of agreement with yeltsin, or it was impossible, you know why it was possible, because in one of interview...

the decrees have not yet been issued, yeltsin spoke on television, said: “do you trust me, the president and vice-president of russia rudsky.” to which i also reacted, i came to yeltsin and said, boris nikolaevich, but you and i did not agree on this topic. he says: alexandrevich, you are an unbearable person, you are too direct, you cannot behave like that in politics. i say, you know, if everyone... behaved the way i behave in politics, this is what is happening, it simply wouldn’t exist, why, because honesty, decency and responsibility for its actions, it doesn’t lead to a dead end, it can lead to a search for a solution, why do i have such deep respect for the veterans of the vietnam war, we are military, by the way, americans, russians, we will come to an agreement faster than civilian politicians, i am the united states

america, when i was governor, i watched the film desert storm, prefabricated unsupported structures, capanirs, barracks , gyms and everything else, i saw it, flew to the united states, this is military engineering equipment, and they gave it to me, we agreed, i built cowsheds, poultry houses, poultry farms, even two instructors came from the united states, two of these... guys 2 meters tall, they taught us how to use this equipment, unique equipment, and when i flew there, they told me, listen, you crazy, no one will give this to you, i say, we are military, americans, russians will always agree with each other, because we have a completely different psychology of thinking, completely different, general, thank you very much, thank you, we’re going off to advertise,

we’ll come back literally in: a few minutes korzukhin, yes, it’s me, your wife serafina vladimirovna, i came to you from st. petersburg, forgive me, i’m seeing this woman for the first time, i don’t know any seraphim, i’m not expecting anyone from st. petersburg, this is a hoax! that it’s a deception, renounced, reptile, for the centenary of alexander alov, running, on saturday on the first, this is azonbank, and you have a lot of clients here, already more than 25 million, they are still...

returning the lucky one. ozonbank cashback up to 25% in rubles, the opportunity to return up to 100% of expenses and free card service. i 'll show you this now, you just won't believe it. with your own eyes, saw, saw? valera, this is cashboy from megamarket, he doesn’t allow you to buy without cashback. look, we are opening a megamarket and buying everything you need at a profit with a huge cashback. listen to cashboy's advice and you will be able to afford more bargains. and for cashback we’ll order a smart speaker for a party, your cashboy is waiting for you at the megamarket. shopping with a rosbank credit card 120 for everything is an unforgettable emotion and the interest is forgotten for 120 days. rosbank credit card. would you like to film it on audio? no interest at all. rosbank is a real opportunity. routine distracts the department. open a vtb current account.

get a digital document designer. accounting, legal support and other services, do business, not routine. vtb: we help with action. new collections for children and adults, bright, warm, beautiful clothes for the whole family. autumn discounts are already on walberries. 24 months installment plan with holba. buy any goods from partners or pay off your credit card debts in installments for 24 months. purchases. financing credit cards in installments with kholva. the third column is ready, your fresh croissants and cocoa with myself. welcome to the new location of the international brand teboil. here you will always find friendly service, a cozy cafe and high-quality fuel. teboil, good, like

home. that same feeling when you just received the money you needed right now. credit to tenkov: we approve your plans. money to the card immediately, deferment of the first payment up to 90 days. apply for a loan using the tenkov app and receive a deferment of the first payment for up to 90 days. kinkov, he’s the only one. this is the fonbet russian football cup. large-scale, spectacular, real, punchy. fonbet russian football cup, vtb team, you have a free card with 10% cashback on everything. apply for a debit card for life at

vtb.ru or at a bank office. it's me, alexander osachiev. i discovered two ocean currents, and global climate forecasts became more accurate. and this is the moment when i... realized that there was a whole sea of ​​seas in the world i wanted to know everything about them. develops interest in science from childhood. enroll in scientific specialties.rf. for real comfort, no repairs are needed, for real business you don’t need an office. real friends are not on social networks. real art happens not only in museums. real passions. passes over the years, for real life you need a real bank, psb is a bank for the real, this is me, alexander osachiev. i discovered two sea currents and global

climate forecasts became more accurate. and this is the moment when i realized that there were a whole sea of ​​seas in the world and i wanted to know everything about them. develop an interest in science from childhood. enroll in science majors. my guest is vladimir romanovich ligoida, editor-in-chief of the foma magazine, chairman of the senate department for interaction between church and society. what do i think about the trinity, that the cultural catastrophe today is that we have people who don’t know that it exists, this is the problem, and not the fact of transfer to the church, everything will be fine with storage and there is certainly no church the task of storing an icon so that it is poorly preserved, if some priest said something that there is no need to say right away in the russian church, they have decided or decided or believe, just as there is no need to bore us with these questions, but what is the official position churches about gmos, or homeopathy, why should the church have an official

position on homeopathy? everything that the church could do to the maximum was done by its founder, our task is only to testify to this. podcast lab, today on the first and always on 1. r. there is a big game on the air, we continue to discuss the events of october 1993, which ended with tanks shooting at the supreme council building, we will discuss this with vladimir rudakov, the editor-in-chief of the magazine. historian vladimir, welcome, hello, as i understand it, you are preparing a special issue dedicated to this situation, well, we published a special issue on the twenty-fifth anniversary 5 years ago, this year we are doing a large series of materials dedicated

to this event, there is an interview with the wonderful political scientist dmitry simes, and there is an interview with one of the participants in the events, and sergei vadimecha stepashin, who was then on the other side, was a deputy, and then, during the events of september 1993, he moved to the structures. vladim, i want to ask you about this. one of the reasons for the confrontation, the escalation of the confrontation, was the fact that, as i understand it, yeltsin had a choice: try to come to an agreement with the supreme council, taking advantage of the fact that even in the leadership of the supreme council there were many, so to speak, centrists, quite rational people, including stepashin, and thus reach a compromise, the second option was

to weaken the supreme council, dismember it, remove moderate people from it, introduce many of them into their own administration, present the supreme council as a... people just as a personnel reserve, while relations were normal, but after december ninety the second year, when he was not allowed to approve gaidar as prime minister, they did not give him carte blanche, which he had previously had for a year to carry out economic reforms not through the supreme council, but with the help of presidential decrees, and he lost interest in a compromise with the supreme council, and then the deliberate washing out of parliament of any negotiable figures began. but because you are indeed right,

this made it possible to present parliament as some kind of gathering of communists, reds or as the red-browns said at the time , and thereby discredit him and, so to speak , end this page of russian history, one of the people who was disturbed by yeltsin's approach was his own secretary of the security council, yuri skokov. who, as you know, refused to endorse a few months earlier, a decree introducing a state of emergency, and he told me, before he did it, that he considered it his civic duty, because he said, he called him the king, he said , tsar smelled blood in chechnya, and now he doesn’t know how to stop.

skokov’s fear, as i understood him, was that even if it was not necessary, yeltsin would not want to come to an agreement, because since these people, small people from his point of view , allowed themselves to challenge the tsar, tsar yeltsin, then their needs to be taught a lesson and maybe even destroyed, in the interview that sergei vadimovich gave to our magazine, he says that sergei vadim stepashin, yes. he says that yeltsin frowned at almost every meeting of the congress, when he came, this was noticeable to those people who sat close to the presidium, it was unpleasant for him to communicate with deputies, although he himself once came from this deputy environment, and he is clearly right-wing, so to speak, he is from the legally and democratically elected president, he very quickly evolved into tsar boris, and he liked these attributes, which means, so to speak, the supreme power, and from his point of view they demanded no orders... including from the parliament, i think the water supply was

exactly in december of ninety-two of the year, and after that elson made a bet on putting the squeeze on parliament, in which way , i think, he didn’t fully realize it, but after in march he tried to introduce a special procedure for governing the country, actually introducing direct presidential rule, and he already considered the plan to dissolve parliament as the only possible one, help me formulate even my... own position, on the one hand, i just complimented general rudsky, and i did it sincerely, he did not seem to me a dangerous extremist, he seemed to me a patriot, a military man, a general, he did not necessarily have to always be right, but he seemed to me a rational man, and khasbullatov made the same impression, i did not completely agree with what he said, including his personal attacks ... attacks on

yeltsin, but this happens in politics, on the other hand, i saw these crowds of people who stormed ostankino, who swept away everything in their path when they attacked merio, that’s how it happened that the supreme council, this whole coalition led by reasonable people in in principle, not necessarily right in everything, but reasonable people, such as rudskoy and khuzbolatov, that they ended up with such extreme, dare i say, extremist supporters, well, you know, i think that there were different people there, in fact, not only extremists, and not only extremists, there were people who shared the values ​​that seemed to be associated with the supreme council, these are the values ​​of social justice, these are the values... the rule of law, which in their opinion yeltsin violated,

but it seems to me that here, perhaps, the key to understanding the situation was given precisely in that period by the then and current chairman of the constitutional court valery dmitrovich zorkin, he is a wise man, not without reason, he was recently reappointed to this post, in the recall of the constitutional court in response to yeltsin’s decree of 1400, it was written that this decree creates a precedent that, in fact, trampling on the basic law allows other political forces and other political players to act in the same way. thus, yeltsin himself opened decrees in 1400, well so to speak, an opportunity for action outside. framework of the legal field, and what came of it, we know, the times were troubled and people were nervous, including the fact that many of them sat in complete blockade for two weeks in the building of the supreme council, without light, without water , and this situation could push many to take quite decisive, radical action;

it seems to me that this is a natural reaction to what is happening, negative, unfortunately, but nevertheless natural. the role of the usa, let's listen to what he said on the 22nd immediately after the announcement of yeltsin's decree, vice president gore. we believe that boris yeltsin is the best hope for democracy in russia. well, this is how the new york times described the administration’s reaction. today in washington it is uncertain whether mr. yeltsin will succeed, but has repeatedly declared in the past its support for mr. yeltsen, the clinton administration is not in the mood to change partners at this decisive moment in moscow. we know that the clinton administration thought so. but she had the right to think so. well here’s my question to you: what did they do in practice? was there any american

intervention in this conflict? well, american intervention in the form of a contingent of armed forces. yes, of course, in moscow, as far as i understand, it was not, but the very fact that elson felt not only support from america and the carte blanche that america gave him, but also the fact that america, apparently, believed that the scenario that i decided to implement as the most, acceptable, optimal, provided very serious moral support, because let us remember what time we are talking about, we are talking about the early nineties, when the political establishment of russia was the main measure. in all, i considered the position of the united states administration, so if the united states had taken a different, more balanced position, or had relied on creating a compromise in russia or on russia, then yeltsinskaya would follow the very democratic values ​​about which, this means that yeltsin himself endlessly stated in response to

clinton, i think that yeltsin’s behavior was more restrained, nevertheless, let me remind you that when there was a conflict between yeltsin and gorbachev , after all, the administration of the united states, the administration of bush, the elder, then took a position, so to speak, of a very soft attitude towards gorbachev, and i think that in many ways this predetermined , well, yeltsin’s rather soft relationship with gorbachev in the last period, that means the presidency, the last months of gorbachev’s presidency, so the position of the united states mattered in that period, they gave yeltsin carte blanche, he and used as he thought necessary to the question of how yeltsin made this decision, so let's listen to a very interesting conversation that yeltsin had, immediately after signing the decree, with the head of the foreign intelligence service, yevgeny primakov. on the eve of the events, as you know, the president signed decree number 1400 on the dissolution

of parliament, i learned about this a few hours before the pre-planned meeting of a close circle of friends at the clinic of vladimir ivanovich burakovsky, i was driving to them along leninsky prospekt when i rang the car yeltsin, the following conversation took place: how do you feel about my decree, the president asked, it seems to me that it is not fully thought out, i expected a different answer from the director of the foreign intelligence service, i told you as i think it would be much worse if if the head of the foreign intelligence service were telling a lie to his president, but my attitude to the decree is my personal attitude, and i am sure that you will not suspect the svr of anti-present sentiments, yeltsin hung up and never returned to this telephone conversation, fairness for the sake of the fact that yeltsin never returned to this conversation and did not take revenge on primakov in any way and then made him minister of foreign affairs not a couple of years later, in general this speaks from my point of view in favor of yeltsin, but on the other hand it struck me, we know

that yeltsin talked with the heads of other intelligence services, but apparently these were the ones he wanted to actively use against the supreme council, but still the foreign intelligence services, but it would seem that the president wants to know if there are any international roots this situation, wants to know what the consequences might be, so it doesn’t surprise you that it didn’t occur to yeltsin to consult with the head of intelligence, well, actually, no, because as we already talked to you, the decisive word was spoken, as far as i understand, let's say the united states embassy was informed about the prepared decree even before its promulgation, and i remind you that yeltsin signed this decree on september 15, wanted to publish it on the nineteenth, in the end they persuaded it to publish it on september 21, that is, almost not... it was a week already, i think, there was feedback, yeltsin understood that the european capitals in washington would treat it normally,

so the foreign intelligence service in this case was, so to speak, a secondary instrument, but you were right at the beginning when you said that even in the very yeltsin’s close circle, you named yuri skokov, but there was the recently departed sergei filtov, the then head of the presidential administration, a number of other high-ranking officials did not share yeltsin’s desire to do away with the supreme council, we have already... mentioned the chairmen constitutional court and other people were against this, so i think that yeltsin, so to speak, simply informed the head of the svr, not expecting anything from him other than confirmation of one hundred percent loyalty, well, uh, it seems to me that there was a tragedy that was the danger of civil war, and that, in general, usually no one would be happy about such a situation, but here... let's listen to what he wrote in his memoirs, the then head of the fsb in moscow,

the man who came, came from among the democrats , let's listen, evgeniy savastyanov. having learned in the most general terms about the preparation of the decree a day or two before its publication, i was in no hurry to rejoice, even keeping in mind the march decree and the subsequent compromises, i was afraid that half measures would again be taken, a waste of time, so after hearing and reading the published text felt relieved. this time yeltsin burned the bridges to retreat behind him. now the matter will be completed. he was glad that now the matter would be brought to an end, in fairness. he further writes that he did not expect that, that this would all come to this bloodshed. but the fact is that he was glad that the matter would come to an end, when the president decided on something terrible and dissolved his own. own parliament, did things that savastyanov could not help but know were illegal, so he was happy

, i want to understand the attitude towards this of the so -called democrats, who were yeltsin’s closest advisers, that there were democrats who believed that the goal justified means the law does not matter, these were just such democrats, and you know, these democrats fought very actively against communist propaganda, which was in the soviet union for many years, but in the very first days of actually being in power, they became victims of anti-communist propaganda, which is why this red-brown cliche, which was pasted on everyone who was related to the supreme council, marked for them an unacceptable partner, an enemy with whom it is necessary to do exactly this, like the one named above, which means the democrat sevastyanov wrote, and there were many of them. remember the letter from cultural figures who they not only supported yeltsin, but also demanded even more from him, as the tinny says, yes, the closure of newspapers, the liquidation of the party, that is,

the liberal intelligentsia wanted blood, right? she didn’t want blood, but she wanted yeltsin to follow the path that he took, namely anti-constitutional actions, the dissolution of parliament, because in their opinion , the red-browns sat in parliament, that is, those people who wanted to return communism to the soviet union, which actually seems to me, well, some kind of absurdity, no one is communism returns, neither khazbullatov nor rutsskaya, who were supporters of yeltsin in august of the ninety-first year, of course did not intend to. and the last question is very important for me: critics of the current russian government say a lot that the government is too dependent on the intelligence services and does not take into account parliamentary norms enough. it seemed to me that this was all laid down by boris nikolayevich yeltsin, that he stood then, in the autumn

of ninety-three, before a historical fork in the road, to look for something imperfect. compromise with the legitimate parliament, or deal with this parliament using the special services, because he could not rely on anyone else. but plus, in addition to the special services, he used an alliance with the sold-out oligarchs and the media they owned. do i understand correctly that yeltsin wanted this or didn’t want it? he made this historic choice about how russia would be governed. absolutely right, i think he wanted this choice and the argument in favor of this is that by dissolving the supreme council in october, well in october in september. yeltsin almost followed the same path in march 1996; let me remind you that the newly elected second state duma adopted

a resolution in march 1996 denouncing the belovesha agreements. in response, yeltsin had already begun to prepare a decree and dissolve the ban on the communist party and the abolition of the presidential elections, yeltsin himself confirmed this, his daughter confirmed this, and there was a lot there, why this did not happen, this did not happen, because in yeltsin’s circle there were many more opponents of this scenario, than there were opponents to the scenario, including some heads of the special services , the then minister of internal affairs kulikov was categorically against it, while anatoly chubais was against it, that is, people of completely different positions, on this issue they are allies, that the second time the country may not do this such a crisis cannot be overcome, especially if we take into account that in march of 1990 the war was already in full swing in chechnya. vladimir, thank you very much, this was indeed a very difficult and in many ways sad episode in history of russia and in general i just want to say that it happened, that they managed

without the gravdan war. 158 people died and i think that every human life is still worth remembering this event, this crisis, as you really rightly said, the tragedy that occurred at the dawn of new russia. vladimir, thank you very much, there’s a big game on the air, we’ll be back in just a few minutes, may you be lucky, first. the channel, with the support of roscosmos, carried out a unique campaign, playing a challenge among the audience of the film, visit to the cosmonaut training center ; trip to baikonor. it’s still a dream to fly into space, it’s incredible that you can see something like this in housing, some winners went to the star city, while others saw the launch of the manned soyuz spacecraft.

it was worth it, shake your head, so you overpowered, they accepted the challenge, and the first channel fulfilled their stellar dream, discounts up to 50% cashback on everything, yes, in litual, 24 months installment plan with halva, buy any goods from partners, or pay off yours credit card debts, installments for 24 months, purchases and refinancing of credit cards in installments with halva, this is ozonbank, and you have a lot of clients here, already more than 25 million, they also return cashback up to 100% to the lucky one, azzonbank cashback up to 25% in rubles, the opportunity to return up to 100% spending and free service on the card,

tricrizan, tricrizan helps... with the treatment of rvi, strengthening the immune system and restoring strength. trikrizan, be healthy. for all occasions, dad buy, fix price, low price for everything. if only there was a hit combo for 150 rubles now. only at kfcc. vtb team, with you get a free card with 10% cashback on everything. apply for a debit card for life at vtb.ru or at a bank office. so, what's on our minds now? one benefit. buy now with a discount, pay later and get cashback. narrow hotpoint washing machine for only 1,000 rubles per month. in mviideo and eldordo. download the megamarket app and buy with discounts. for example, foundation for only 3.90 rubles. megamarket. shopping with a rosbank credit card 120 for everything. these are unforgettable emotions and

123% forgettable. crossbank loan: film on audio. whatever you want, no interest at all rosbank credit card rosbank buy what you want forget about interest rosbank credit card rosbank 120 for everything without interest rosbank real opportunities from such low prices muffin and charlise at 1299 pyaterochka helps out oops, again everything is dry from the vasoconstrictor column, don’t turn it around mucous membrane in mumifrin to moisturize the protection of the mucous membrane when treating a runny nose, easy to arrange, just get up to 5 million. in the department, the third

is ready. a friendly person is always waiting for you here service, cozy cafe and high-quality fuel, it’s good like home, this is the plot, the characters are well-developed, it’s so deliciously written, excuse me, what do you think, manga, lukyanenko, menu, and what, exclusives and new items of different genres in the application lines from mts ernon’s trust diaz and other exclusives only in the lines. hey, where are you going? register in the app and upgrade your heroes with orders, this is a chance to win millions, an apartment, a car and other prizes, hurry up for prizes, in chicken hobbies in kfc and rostix, the season has begun with kidavicoms,

collect the entire basket at the autumn sale, garlin cordless iron with a 45% discount on the yandex market, pay less, candies 13490, five to the rescue, vtb team, you have a free card: with 10% cashback on everything, get a debit card for life on vtb .ru or in a bank office, any business begins with a person. at first i cooked on my own, then the team began to expand, but when there are more clients, you can’t always keep up with demand, with support the development does not stop, we expand further. national project small and medium entrepreneurship. our job is to support yours. homer is not happy about akha's victory. baby again, again, now he has reached damer, i have a suspicion that very serious psychological experiments were carried out on the ukrainian people, where is homer, and

where is ukraine, but it’s like cows and a saddle, the next accusations against russia: russians are committing ecocyt, they are destroying the shores of the dairy industry, as for the green ones, this is also social manipulation, and with a very good business result, a scam, worldwide... antifake premieres tomorrow on the first and always on 1tv.ru. there's a big game on the air. and with us via skype from washington, commerce correspondent in the united states and regular participant in our program, ekaterina moore. ekaterina, hello, we are very glad to see you. hello dmitry. ekaterina, a simple question, i’m afraid the answer will not be very simple. the american government will still be closed on october 1 and will not be able to agree on

a budget, if there is no compromise, then, as i hear, let’s see what president biden says about this. mister president, do you think a government shutdown is inevitable at this point? i don't think anything is inevitable in politics that can be done to prevent it from happening, if i knew that i would have done it already. that’s it, ekaterina, but don’t be surprised that if he doesn’t know, of course, i don’t know, but can you somehow enlighten us? well , the probability, i think, is somewhere around 75% that us government agencies will close 1. the fact is that we are now observing a conflict not only within the republican parties, but also between the upper lower house, that is, the views of the parties are completely.