[000:00:00;00] in reality, well, in general, it was some kind of burden, melancholy, therefore, it was already present, well, this is this, this has already arrived rather even on the plane, when we were flying away, at that moment i was thinking how to film it all, everything is it working, the film crew, cameras, sound, it was all there, it was all a film set right there, that’s what i was thinking about, and they didn’t give me a monitor, i didn’t have one, so then my trusted director of the second unit, konstantin - filmed this... scene and i just so to speak, sat on the sidelines and watched how this is all happening. we continue our space stories podcast, and with me today are the heroes of russia, cosmonauts, oleg navitsky and anton shkaplerov. well, has your worldview changed in general? yes, what exactly has changed?

listen, well, this is some kind of inner mental state, you know, i can even say that i periodically try to explain it to myself in some words, and it is probably the closest thing to these words - this is some kind of calmness , spiritual, some kind of confidence in myself as a person, that my body could withstand it, that i was able to do this, probably this is the worldview, i’m talking now besides, of course, i saw the earth from space, of course, i saw how beautiful it is, that’s all, that is, important sensations, important impressions that also live in me now, and i i carry them with me. as if already, and for some reason you managed to miss the earthly things during the flight, just the shower, the bathhouse and the normal toilet, i also always liked the very first stream of water falling on you, it’s like that, listen, well i see, i'm not shaved, because i am it takes a long time to shave there and it’s so inconvenient, and i washed, of course, i washed, but on the ground i wash more often, well, simply because i had to spend so much valuable time on it,

every damn thing there, and i didn’t want to spend so much damn on it all wasting time, so yes, i don’t miss these processes, but i miss everything else very much, i’m even offended that it’s like i remember this preparation and even all these, well, not all, but i remember a lot of air tours, all these all in i remember the ship, you know, it feels like i, well, i learned a little, well, not to drive, of course well, i don’t have control, but it’s as if i have acquired the skill to, well, live and work. spent on acquiring this skill, well, that is, i can do it, and well, in general, i flew as an astronaut, although i was like, well, an astronaut, well, somehow, damn it, well, i need to somehow continue this enjoy, your whole life is ahead of you, the whole team, yes, yes, yes, well, listen , i, i, i’m 40 now, so i need to say only

40, yes, only 40 for an astronaut for flights, also at 40, yes, i i know, for an astronaut this is just yu, this is very childhood, you can do this say, dawn, the first flights, so i still hope in this sense, yes, no , well, in general, in general, i’m in general, i’m very glad that the project came to fruition at all, really, you arrived, we worked together, then we continue to communicate on earth, well, i think it’s generally very cool, it’s wonderful, we, well, i, yulia and i were very lucky that this happened, and i’m very glad that it turned out that way, that everyone accepted us, well everyone who really depended on something, who really participated in this process, and those who did not accept, well, to hell with them, there are very few of them, believe me, well, yes, and we generally don’t even pay attention to them, so in this sense we are very lucky, we are very lucky with you, i am very lucky with you, as with the actors, we were lucky with you, and as with the actors, again, if it weren’t for your professionalism, then we would hardly have succeeded, since you suggested some actions, yulia suggested, well

, too... how to play something, how to say something differently, i still remember this example when you say, well, you felt bad or no, when everything didn’t work out, to play such a, well, normal sick person , yes, well, have you ever felt bad, i say, yes, i say, it was somehow bad, there, in my youth, on the third day after the new year , so remember this state, yes, yes, you see, acting is a little bit like that, you you you enter you, when you are an adult and you are not an actor, it seems to you that yours knows, consciousness, it prevents this... this is tomfoolery, as you think, why am i playing the fool here, i’m a serious cool dude, there is i have a feeling that i’m going to be playing the fool here now, but i don’t always succeed, maybe you want to do something, but in essence you need to kind of remember, it’s essentially like a child, you ’re pretending, you’re you’re playing something, well, that is, essentially, you need to, you need to get back into this, be able to get a person out, look, you never swore at us there , not without this, that is, you always found people like you now you speak normal

words, that’s why? we watch people’s films there , we now know, well, not all of them, i mean many many, i know that people and swear words and especially a director who doesn’t succeed, he can still launch it there, what he has in his hands, but you are completely different, you could convey to us, well, i’m on earth like that and it’s not me who behaves this way, i was on the set, well, you see some of my specifics really, but i’m another director, who would have been more like a rude person, wouldn’t have worked with you, he wouldn’t go back came back, didn’t start at first, and then wouldn’t come back, you definitely didn’t work out well with oleg, that’s exactly, i can say, that is, there, that is, there was a need for flexibility with you and diplomacy, of course, well, that’s what directing is all about , listen, each person in his own way, each

actor is different, this is a person, to him in his own way you need to find an approach if you and this is also the director’s task to find this approach, because in the end it affects what is on the screen, well, this is what will be on the screen, i can, of course , swear, throw the walkie-talkie, but will it help? this business? it’s not a fact that it will help, will you have time to catch him back? yes, you will have time, so i always, listen, there are some personal properties, but when we are here we do business, and then, if we remain friends, this is already a bonus, okay, so we stayed, we stayed, yes, but this is not our task, we we didn’t gather for this, we didn’t gather to become friends , we also gathered to make a film, that is , that’s what we ended up going through, well, you, too , were skeptical at first, it was difficult. with you we had to massage you a little, that is, well, in the end we sort of sorted it out, and it’s normal that you i understood that there are many actors more complicated than you, professional actors with whom it was more difficult to find an approach, even in my work, than with

you, so in this sense i think it’s so good, i agreed with everything, no, no, well, you you know, you had some kind of protests at first, and so on, well, that is, that was also normal, that is, since i had already gone through more, in general, i couldn’t deal with you, well, i knew, that we will figure it out in the end, after all, you are a responsible person, you don’t seem to give up on the task, you won’t leave her, remember you said at the beginning, when i told you, oleg, why are you so in a commanding voice, here speak like a human being, you say, damn it, i was taught there for 20 years to report what you want now i’ve been in the army for 20 years, but it’s leaving an imprint, so what do i say, listen, now there’s no need to report, just humanly, that is, you see? they adapted you a little for film, so we didn’t do our own voices, right? yes, by the way, why? because working with voice, working with voice, is a separate discipline, i i could have probably made you speak in your own voices, but we would have spent

six months in the voice acting with each of you, well, for that , special thanks to you, that we didn’t extend the voice acting for another six months, well, friends, unfortunately, unfortunately, time flies at cosmic speed, cosmic, it was a podcast of space stories , navitsky anton shkaplerov was with me today, both heroes of russia, cosmonauts, and i hope that our conversation with them enriched your space experience, which you already received thanks to watching the film challenge, thank you, hello, this is witnessstein's podcast. and its presenters: me, film historian stanislav dizdinsky, and me, film historian natalya ryabchikova. why esenstein's witnesses? sergei ezenstein is still one of the largest figures in the history of russian cinema. and everything that makes up this movie

seems to revolve around it. witnesses of isenstein are us, we are witnesses of how russian cinema was created and continues to be created. we want to make it enjoyable, interesting and useful for modern viewers. watch classics, popular, little-known, forgotten films of russian cinema, and today we will talk about greb panfilov’s film the beginning, which was released in the seventieth year, but despite the fact that it is known, perhaps not everyone knows how it was made, in what context, in what conditions , and what could happen after him in the fate of panfilov, churikova and soviet cinema in general, and panfilov himself, our hero, as a director and as a scriptwriter, the person who launches, of course, this story, but it launches on his first full-length film of the year sixty-seven, which is called there is no ford in fire, inna chyurikova already plays the main role, and

panfilov, in this film, comes to this film as not a very young man, and his story, the story of gleb ponfilov, is also important for how the film turned out, because he started working as an engineer at a factory, not at all in moscow. and i became interested in cinema as such an amateur activity, yes, i started working on television, entered the correspondence department at ovgik in the camera department, and only then i came to finish higher courses for screenwriters and directors in moscow. and, in fact, his first full-length film was a film for him personally, far from the first, of course. and this story was read by him in a magazine in 1939, in a red news magazine, it seems. and there was a story, a plot, about the civil war, about a nurse on a train, who is also an artist. and who was the origin of this plot in 1939? evgeny gavrilovich. that's who it is. evgeniy gabrilovich, this is the legendary soviet screenwriter, and

, in fact, the story with which i started work, it was a story about the civil war, and this topic came up very often in gabriilovich’s work , it was generally quite an important point, the civil war, this is the beginning of a new world, the beginning of a new world, yes, that is, that moment when in which some soviet truth was laid, i would say, from which in the future all young people who tried to live and preach some principles in their lives were based, that is , panfilov needed for this story, which was written by a screenwriter of the previous generation a new actress, and somewhere in some television program, it seems, he saw inna churikova, perhaps their acquaintance looked like how it looked in the film , the beginning of the acquaintance of the director and actress, i suggest now watching this piece, yes, let's get acquainted, everyone,

hello, you are pasha, and who are you? and i’m a director, let’s get acquainted, do you want to act in films , baba igoi, no, not baba igoi, i want, but what, have you read about jeanne d’arc, but what about, who is she, a frenchwoman, a folk heroine, of course, read, but what , that's ok, inna churikova to this... has already starred in quite a significant number of films , but mostly her roles are small, for example, in yashega in moscow, how to draw a horse, how to draw a horse, yes, yes, she was one of those heroines of the competition creative, in which he participated, the character of nikita mikhalkov, who drew a horse in turn, there were two teams, in one of which churikova’s heroine appeared, it seems that you won’t notice unless you specifically look, but at the same time she is still noticeable there, you c yes, well

probably, for most viewers she was remembered in the film drizzle, yes, mom , a very impressive girl, and by the way, in 1966 she also starred in the role of such a minor friend of the main character in the film big sister, why is this important, why is this it’s interesting, because our main character, leonid kuravlyov, played in this film, but they didn’t seem to converge , they... didn’t bring them together, and leonid koravlyov had been acting since the late fifties by this time, he was already in the mid-sixties, a really famous actor in the leading role, but he has such a role, it’s a little strange, he’s not a victorious hero, like me in moscow, he’s not a hero-lover, not a flaming communist, like urbansky, for example, yes, that is, well, that is, such he doesn’t have a heroic trail behind him and doesn’t have his own role, he ’s rather just like that... rather like his kind of guy , as a matter of fact, in the film there lives such

a guy, his one of the main roles, iconic roles that created strengthened his authority , his role on screen, film shukshina, in general, made kuravlev famous throughout the country, by that time he was already quite such an all-union star, yes, and inna chyurikova, despite the fact that she played the main role in panfilov , there is no ford in fire, she... well, somehow this film was not very successful with audiences. and when a couple of years later gabriilovich brought a new application to work with panfilov and to work with churikova, in principle everyone said, well, this is, in general, a continuation of that story, and this is again a heroine from the people, who is now contemporary with us heroine, a factory girl who is ugly, this really seems to me the right move, very straight forward. it is clear that inna chyurikova is an actress of special talent, but she

is not, not an ingénue, not a rosy heroine, yes, she is something much more, but what? panfilov’s eyes were needed, gabriilovich’s pen was needed to come up with one story and understand what could be written further, but then there’s a problem, because there is a legend about this film, which is not very clear how it fits with the documents in some sources everything is described... let's say, contradictory, and sometimes just completely wrong, even in some books that exist today and are considered the basis of this story, it is sometimes said that panfilov wanted to make a film about joan of arc. they didn’t give him the beginning and he made the film, in fact, everything was not like that, but why suddenly jeanne darc, why jeanne darc the beginning, ponfilov, in principle, is interested in such heroines, strong ones, and this is generally the theme of his work, if you look at his further films, in which, of course , inna churikova usually plays the main role, this is always

strong women, yes, this is mother in a bitter way, yes, this is vasa, where is vasa zheleznova, the rest of the merchant’s wife, how she holds. yes, that is, in general, these are always some kind of heroines who rise above, well, the average level, yes, these are always people who have some kind of moral core, there is some kind of fundamental attitude in their souls, and even if take the very first film that we started talking about , no beard on fire, or whatever it was called, in the literary script the holy soul, it’s about a woman who changes the world, yes, of course then in the sixties, in general , at the end of the sixties, a theme arises... in soviet cinema, the theme is that the revolution is the work of artists who come up with what the new world should look like, and they bring this story to life, or people follow them inspired by this fantasy, this dream, their creativity and begin to embody it all, here is joan of arc, she is approximately one of

those characters who are built into this line, as we now see in retrospect, how she successfully complements and continues. the heroine, tanya tetkina, from vagne bordonet, and becomes one of the bricks, on the basis of which panfilov then arranges this entire universe, his female universe , let’s say, for the anniversary of the great actress, girl, you are dancing, you are coming to me, of course, you are surprised ? hello, do you want to act in a movie, i want yours. for life to be full and joyful. you're my falcon, so he's married, what? why did

they choose to play you in a movie, and not some other actress? onadarate's reaction is the same, temperament too. filmmaker, this is pasha, pasha, pasha, why, pack your things, get out, sign, no, no, no, no, no, no , it’s jean dark, some kind of hooligan, i ’ll leave my mark on the girl in art, and then my arkash will admire me , he will return to me, inna churikova in the film the beginning. on sunday on the first. pentalgin extragel: it contains a special component for better penetration into the source of pain and inflammation. pentalgin extragel against pain and inflammation in muscles and joints. find out your credit

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change familiar things. the phone is designed for nutrition, restoration and preservation of youthful eyes, it is recommended to use daily for 3 months, three courses per year. tuufon is now in new packaging designed specifically for course use. meet the big new product from actibio, billions. where are the probiotic bacteria charges, how many belts, look, actibio , even more benefits for digestion in the new large package, actibio, the composition of acipol is unique, it contains the component kiferan to strengthen the immune system and live lactobacilli to restore microflora. acipol - improve the intestines and strengthen the immune system. well, here's the legend. this is how panfilov wants to make a film about joan of arc, he is not allowed to do it, then he comes up with the idea that his modern

heroine, whose name is pasha stroganova, a factory girl, plays jeanne arc in the film, so this is a legend, this is a legend, in fact, at first there was a script proposal, as often happened, well, as it always happened , in soviet film practice, first there is a script proposal, which may have nothing at all to do with the film that we will subsequently see, and this is normal, so in this script proposal, which gabrilovich prepared, there was nothing about the heartbreak, that’s right, absolutely nothing , zero, when we tried to understand where the truth was, yes, on the one hand, we came across interviews, later ones, which came out after the release of the film , where panfilov said that i came up with this story about a simple soviet girl when i was working at a factory, that

i would look at it. which is woven from sin, mistakes, inability , weakness, but also strength, valor and purity, do you affirm this? yeah, you're on too much you take yourself, zhanna, no, sir, i saw all this in the war, and so you justify a person, you are one of the greatest miracles of god, yes, you are blaspheming, zhanna, man, this is dirt, meanness and an obscene vision, yes, he

sins, he can be vile, and then it is unknown why he rushes to cut off a rushing horse in order to save a child unknown to him, such a speech is very sixties, in my opinion, here is a person who becomes the center of attention in the thaw years in soviet cinema, this is understandable , this is not a historical joan, this is zhanna, as the soviets see her... graphists, but there is a mystery here, she appears from somewhere in this literary script, on which there are already two authors, gabrilovich and ponfilov, and first they let gabriilovich write in the script, then he gets sick, writes letter to the studio, this remains in the archive, yes, please consider my co-authors, gleb panfilo, equally, yes, here zhanna already appears, and further, in the interview, it seems to me, here, panfilov is accurate, he says that first we decided that there would be a scene of

jeanne’s renunciation, that this is our heroine, we need to really show her height, nobility, this factory girl, yes, we convey her inner world through joan of arc, whom she plays, and this is one scene, and then they seem to begin to creep apart, as if more needs to be inserted and inserted again , and also insert, and this is already at the level of the director 's script, people at the studio notice, who are very kind-minded, very... intelligently discussing all this, but for them it is strange why there is so much of joan of arc in the script, maybe there’s still a little bit of it needs to be toned down, and the question arises, just this strong woman and pasha stroganova, who is quite the opposite, our heroine, the main one, seems to have to play both, churikova, that is, she plays pasha, playing zhanna, she evokes the opposite feeling in... . from the editors, what is this , well, some too naive girl, but her relationship with the main

character, and the main character is married, she... who meets him at a dance and somehow he turns out to be hers, well, even now you can't tell boyfriends because they are very clear in my opinion, they even register in the application, he spends the night with a friend, and spends all the evenings with pasha, she perceives this as a family history, nepotism, but he doesn’t understand how he perceives it, this pasha’s naivety is so absolutely... openness to the world and i feel like studiolen raises questions among the very cynical workers. well, today churikova’s character itself does not raise any questions in our minds, because she looks absolutely organic and modern, that is, she is quite a girl of our days. here it is, simple straightforwardness, readiness to throw herself headlong into shooting a film, something she does

n’t understand, something she doesn’t understand anything about, but she’ll get there. does, she succeeds, well, inside the image, maybe, but it seems to me that modern girls would not fully accept this heroine of pasha stroganova, because for her she has two parts of life, yes, work, she arkady immediately tells kuravlev’s character i will become a great actress, and she plays baba ega in the children’s theater, she is an amateur is engaged, that is, she has a calling, she has this very art that creates life, and there is this arkady, arkady, who also has a wife, somewhere, who then comes for things, takes him back home, yes, and for pasha, and arkady is more important at some point, at least in the script , than the role, and they tell panfilov and gabrilovich about this, that well, somehow she is disproportionate to you, draws attention to this personal film, this is not one film, these are three

films, one about pasha stroganov, the second about film production and how the soviet cinema, let us remember, around the same time a wonderful cult film came out, today a film-film by fyodor sailivich khitruk, where on the one hand there is such a parody of the filming of ivan the terrible, sergei izenshtein, well, as it is believed, nevertheless, in general, in this moment, there is obviously a general awakening of interest in soviet cinema in the nature of cinema as such, how it is made, yes , how a certain miracle is created on the screen, this magic of cinema, well, this... show the kitchen of cinema, we have already seen a small fragment with the director, who, by the way, is played by a real soviet screenwriter, yuri klepikov, or could have been played by a real soviet director, a student from einstein, vladimir vengerov, other characters also appear there, they are even more important in the script than ultimately on the screen, they were also toned down, an incredibly important character appears

in the script, the screenwriter himself, who is clearly based on gabrilovich, we started talking about the fact that gabrilovich is a man, even from the twenties, in the thirties, he came actively to cinema, he is a very interesting writer, he actually started out as a musician, he is a master, and from the master’s point of view, this character ollya gabriilovich appears in the script, he defends our heroine, pasha strogunova, whom the director took on the role of joan of arc, who... then he doesn’t believe it, let’s watch the fragment, come on, well, in my opinion, the situation is terrible. but in my opinion it’s great, well, i don’t know, they even asked, begged, not brothers for the main role, but i ’m sick of the ugly ones, that’s not the point, is this jeanne d’arc, some kind of hooligan, i, as the scriptwriter, insist on replacing her , she

irreplaceable, one wonders why there is assembly gluing here? looks like yes, that is, why does the screenwriter give instructions, some instructions to the director, in general, the screenwriter usually doesn’t ask, he handed in the script, that’s it, goodbye , bye-bye, we’ll continue shooting the film without you, in real practice, in soviet , in modern times a screenwriter is considered very little, yes, he has already transferred all the rights for use with certainly not in the choice of an actress , well, especially not certainly not in soviet film production, and if we look, well, because the screenwriter, this is in the thirties screenwriter. was to the authors of the film, yes, in the sixties, after all, the director of the film is already fully considered by everyone to be the author, he is the creator, and here, when we look at the screen, well, some strange things seem to be a little strange in our polls, i say, why the splicing, why we hear behind the scenes, because obviously all this was re-voiced, re-edited, and the character who was originally played by visbor, this can be seen from the director’s script, from the literary script, in fact he was

a representative of the studio, yeah, there are even those. knowledge or stories about how some soviet officials who managed the cinematography were offended and thought that this caricature was personal to them, that it was just specially drawn like this... breed, that this cannot be done, did not appear in the film in the end, in that version , which seemed to be filming the script, the screenwriter did not appear, the screenwriter olek grilovich did not appear, but a representative of the film studio appeared, who is trying to clear up all the problems that arise on the production site, who is a friend, in fact, of the director, and not his enemy, this is clearly stated in the script, but who is sometimes very sad that the director does not listen to him, this is the character that was originally played by choice. apparently, and then it was remade precisely because of this complaint by the screenwriter, of that character who is not here. in the script, by the way, it’s very interesting, but this representative of glavka argues with the director, and as

a party member with a party member, about why your heroine, jeanne d’arc, is so sad, her eyes are doomed, and that’s what you would do like the film chipev, to which the director says: well, maybe the film chipaev did not show the whole truth about chipaev, if we all... knew how easy it is to accomplish a feat, then what would be the point of the feat? no, zhanna is just going to the feat, not suspecting that she can even do it, this controversy around chipaev, it is very interesting, in fact, chipaev, it was no coincidence that he mentioned chipaev, because its creators, the vasiliev brothers, also students of izinstein, are straightforward, moreover, today we are specialists in the film the beginning of gleb panfilov, it was important to show in the film... that our hero pasha does not come to her success, we don’t even know yet whether there will be success, it’s easy, it was necessary to show that she not only has problems in her personal life, but she doesn’t always cope with filming, and at

the same time we understand that it is precisely the relationship between director panfilov and actress churikova, they were more or less harmonious, because the script, in principle, was written for her, for her, and even knowing some of her habits, even... the director of the studio spoke about it, he attended some event , spent 10 days with panfilov and churikova, and says: “well, i i realized that you are doing this for her, maybe tone it down a little, maybe make it a little more difficult for her, but at the same time there is a memory, leonid kuravlev, that it was not very easy for him on the set, remember, yes , actually complained that, mm, he gave his all, tried to do something so interesting on the set, but