[000:00:00;00] there was no such format, it was absolutely impossible, well, only if it was materials from the next congress of the communist party, which were located on the front page, but for it to be some kind of newspaper publication, essay, report, no, that was simply not allowed , so, i created exactly this volume of material, and the editorial board decided that it would publish it in two. this is the material, there is half a strip in one number and in the next number another half-strip, white dance, the name, i was very proud that i came up with such a name, like white dance, there they invite ladies, gentlemen, there were portraits, well, in the sense of reportage portraits described, completely specific, the character of these girls, some of them

impressed me, one mother impressed me. which her daughter vika, 15 years old, as she, in her own words, put on skis , that is, prepared for prostitution, for prestigious prostitution, of course, this may surprise many people, but in fact, prostitutes, precisely currency prostitutes, we we’re not talking about those who worked there at train stations or somewhere else, but prostitutes - it’s just like the boosters, it was... to a certain extent, the soviet elite , they communicated with the same golden youth, they communicated with famous people, again with the same bug, in general it was not shameful, well, in general there is a lot of money, but this is already something and that means something, in a stupor, by the way, there was a joke, many of you probably heard it, that when

they are detained... during work, the putana is brought to the stronghold, the opera asks, well, how so i see your file, your mother is a ballerina in the past, your father is actually a member of the academy, and now you have become confused, how can this be ? some specific... characters and many, of course, of what the girls said to me, i could not reproduce in the material, i was very impressed there, by the way, i still have these audio recordings, if on these, dictaphone cassettes, they did not crumble and did not turn into powder, i i was surprised by many things, i asked karina there, as i remember now, one of them was, what will you do if, well

, they shoot you for this matter, and she said, we’ll raise the price tag, completely calmly, she said, that is, then there are just tariffs that will change, by the way, an amazing thing is that those girls with whom we met in the atrium and those girls with whom the security officers brought me together, if we talk about the feminine component, about attractiveness, it was nothing special, that is, they were not some bombshell, pherical beauties, the presentation there was good, they dressed expensively and unusually. that is, tssuma is not from there, in principle, in terms of texture, there were the most such , well, completely ordinary girls, girls with such, well , slavic appearance, that is , such high cheekbones, some kind of freckled ones, who looked simpler, were very much appreciated by foreigners, like remember, the soviet film, where there was such a frose, such frosi - they just went with

a bang, but the christ-like understanding of beauty, they were like four plus - by the way, we covered something that naturally was not included in the material, these were the girls’ reviews about the clients themselves, because there were also completely different categories, for example, but they really didn’t like finns, they, because finns came to the soviet union, there they had something like prohibition back then, well, in general, they drank very hard, that is, they got drunk like a pig and, of course , a drunk client - this is generally not always good, that is, getting drunk there or leaving the room with a broken jaw and no one to complain to you won’t go to the department there, he says that here i was confused in the kontik and my cat there

broke my jaw, but they were afraid of the orientals and from the most different times, so to speak, they adored the japanese, the japanese are just a dream, by the way there was one there, i i remember. and this is a very interesting olga japanese, i call her, she, uh, not only worked with the japanese, she married a japanese man who came here for work and lived in this kontik and caused a wild burning in all the goods, because she didn’t need had to pay 10 rubles to pass to the hotel, then she just settled down there like, well, like in a buffet, she just had everything at hand, by the way she had the opportunity to dump, that is, a little dachshund. there he reduced, that is, he worked for 100 dollars, and there for 30 to 50, i just walked along the floors of this condo, knocked , uh, on a room like room service, there it was like, would you like a massage there or relax there, that’s

why they loved the japanese, the japanese, uh, they were generous and very polite, and there were also all sorts of nice things like gifts, treats, that is, uh, it was a desirable one, the client was japanese, they loved the french and italians , why, because the dutch and married them very often , but in general, getting married is, well, this is the highest point of putan’s career, that is, this is it, which was realized much later in the film beauty, that is, with richard gere and julia roberts, this is the dream of every prostitute to find a richard gere who will appreciate and love not only because his chest is high and he has a sense of humor, but he will see a person , here you are sleeping, by the way, you liked to communicate with us, because

what we saw in them was only people, not women, well, i mean for their intended purpose, they didn’t use them, so all these details were, of course, not in the material. but there were these telephone bills, there were prices, i set this price at 100 dollars , for which the prostitutes were very grateful to me, as it later turned out, because 100 dollars was the price tag, that is, it was the tariff, with which they started, naturally, that there for 50 dollars, per blow, as they call it, it’s not per night, per blow, that’s what they called it, i don’t know what it’s called. now, and in the morning they’re already over 30, that is, if they were sitting in this atrium , well, damn, they already want to sleep, the doorman, who received his ten, has left his shift, the ten needs to be given to a new one, all

the restaurants are closed, let’s start , they didn’t work in restaurants, they were undercover waiters who simply brought a bottle of champagne, and - to some promising guests of the establishment they could simply suggest that the girls were interested in you, smiled, well this, or they could just sit at a table, by the way, in the soviet union there was still such a thing as, uh , you couldn’t come to a restaurant and just sit at a table and sit at it, they could seat anyone at that table with you, if there were no free tables, or it was harmful with hotels, by the way, it was, that is, it was impossible to rent an entire room in the hotel, they could put anyone in the hotel, if not a girl, by the way, so, so these are the nuances when we are now remembering

the soviet union, we are remembering the obvious bad things, in general, the advantages of that system and a lot of positive aspects, such as free education, free housing, free medicine, we forget about such things that are really very strong in everyday life... so in general, in the early morning, the price tag had already dropped and up to 30 dollars, but not lower, if the price tag dropped below 30 dollars, then people could be snatched away from their friends, that is, dumping could be punished very harshly, instructions for users on how to keep the liver healthy, on women than soy milk better than cow? answers all the questions, tomorrow on the first day, what kind of idiot

wrote this letter in the first place, and what a cool, cool kostya key, they really could have imprisoned you, because rock musicians were imprisoned, if roman kostamarov had not been a famous legendary athlete, you would have fought for him that's for sure. to the same extent, any celebrity entering the shock hall will end up on the same bed, on the same ecmo machine, on the same aol machine, we don’t have any kind of separation, consideration of the case of kamilla valieva, of course, they want... .geniuses like her, because she is truly a genius, they want this to be born in their countries, because if our country has it, we will always defeat them, any person who wants to adequately assess the present, of course, must know history, now not they ask, it was you who flew into space, now they say it was you who starred in the film vyzo, but to me it’s different, they tell me, well, it was you who flew suli, i say, no, it’s strange, it’s so similar, they say you flew. night they call me, i know that you recently had

a very difficult accident, i flew from the rear seats forward, i have a meeting of the brain, a man got into a standing traffic accident at a speed of 110, he did not brake at all. podcast lab is with you all night. this is a podcast chronicling the end of times and i, evgeniy dodolev, talk about how, at my journalistic suggestion , changes were made to the administrative code of the soviet union. so, the price tag was indicated in the article and the girls then, after the release on november 19, 1986, this white dance was published in the moskovsky komsomolets newspaper, they made a photocopy of this newspaper publication and when showdowns and bargained with clients, they simply told me, well... they write this is the price

of 100 dollars, so in this sense , some were grateful to me, but except for those, alas, of course, whom i mentioned in the publication, here on november 19 , as i said, on november 20, the second part of the essay of the same size, in half a page, was typed, but the newspaper did not come out, because after the newspaper with the first part of the white dance was distributed to the kiosks in the morning, a big boom began, and , not only at the lubyanka, it turned out that at the lubyanka, as i said, they talked to me people from the moscow administration, there was also a central administration, and there were people who worked with girls in a completely different profile, in general, a wild pandemonium began there, a pandemonium began in the leadership, then the party, then all

the communist party in the country, and they arrived, arrived instructor from the central committee of the cpsu on the day the newspaper was published, the next day, when i arrived at the so-called trampling, it was at 90 or 10 in the morning, it was like this, well, like such a redollegy, where tasks were handed out, at the entrance to the publishing house yard, this publishing house was called moskovskaya pravda, there was an evening moscow, moskovskaya komsomol members on the third floor, on the fifth - the editorial office of moskovskaya pravda, a taxi couldn’t get into the courtyard, because the whole courtyard was closed, there were these black ones parked there, volzhankas, all kinds , and the elite of the soviet union rode, well, if we are not talking about the politburo and the top leadership there, who rode on seagulls, they, in principle, rode on the black

volga. moreover, the security officers had volgas with forced engines that looked like ordinary gas, and could actually develop completely different, moreover, there were even automatic transmissions, and no one had heard of them in the soviet union, in those days, in any case, and the whole yard was compacted with these machines, cars from the city committee, cars from slubyanka, and from the central apparatus and from the moscow department, in general there was a very serious bems, quickly there , as i understand it, the editor-in-chief explained that , in fact, the material was, in a certain sense , authorized, because there was an interest in the moscow department of the kgb, raising the issue of foreign exchange turnover

illegal. well, but, of course, the authorities went nuts about this ideological aspect, because i repeat, there was no official prostitution, much less there are no currency prostitutes, that’s the general appearance of morality and corrals, all that stuff, and i wasn’t even invited to it a meeting, of course, who am i, some reporter, here, but it was noisy there. people came out, came, well, everyone there was wondering what would happen, whether the newspaper would be closed, whether the editor-in-chief would be replaced, uh, in general, what the situation would be, but the end had already come... times, the end of times had already come, the system was collapsing, the system was cracking, everyone understood that it was impossible to live like this any longer, and it became clear that, uh, so to speak, this movement would end, well , for journalists, at least, in such a

rather desirable way, in in the sense, in the sense of freedom of speech, in the sense of opening some new horizons , in short, they only called me in the evening, it was on the day of publication, they said that tomorrow, now you were waiting for everything, they added everything, the newspaper is closed, tomorrow the newspaper is not it will come out, but it was such trolling, there was no term then, but the concept it was practiced, in any case, in a full-length journalistic environment, but the newspaper would not be published , they told me, and indeed a decision was made to somehow finalize this second part, because it was naturally announced, to be continued, the next day, when... on november 20, 1986, when the newspaper didn’t come out, there were already queues, as i was told from 6 in the morning at the newsstands, moscow, again, as i was told, was seething, i didn’t know this, because i was fighting among my colleagues about that to remove my last name, well, that’s what i’m like, well

i was a fool, because there were a lot of ideological cliches, they stuffed me in there, i included an independent journalist like that, i said, take off... my last name, my last name won’t be under this stuff, and uh, well, later, when i realized that in general there is no method against scrap, i tried to rewrite these paragraphs at least somehow, in some language that i myself understood, all this was sent, stated, i don’t know where, i just don’t even have an idea , where it was sent for approval, in general, somewhere within 24 hours this material finalized. pasha, pavel nikolaevichev, walked around cheerfully, many years later, a very famous colleague of mine, a journalist, wrote that from a city newspaper, this publication turned a moscow newspaper into a newspaper of a union scale, in short, they somehow put the finishing touches on this second part

of the white dance, it was released, accordingly, on november 21. well, after that it started, my phone was ringing off the hook at my house , there were no mobile phones, there were no mobile phones, there was an editorial phone at home, i was completely out of myself , it was, you know, according to endeavor 15 minutes of fame, these 15 minutes of words actually happened then, well, the first, let’s say, 15 minutes, so i gave interviews, there i met all the journalists accredited in moscow, someone came and filmed. even a whole movie about it, i was immediately invited somewhere to go for an internship and uh, later i did go - to do an internship at the new york times company, not at the new york times newspaper in the california branch where - they organized

raids on uh brothels, that's it. my my my curator california who told me about how - how girls actually work in america. later, much later, i was offered to write a script for a film, which later became known as intergirls , but the script was not mine, then i generally basked in the rays of the word, relatively speaking, and i had absolutely no intention of converting this that fell on me into something... then the material one is in a new job or in a new status, for example a screenwriter. i just lived , today, well, that, that, that november day, i became a welcome guest there in the moscow living rooms, the so-called there is such a term, i met a lot of people, naturally they suggested

that i develop this topic, it was not interesting, although later i wrote an essay there for the shift magazine, so i switched... then i worked on this very shift, because they were there for me they paid five times more than in moskovsky komsomolets, but still not as much as in prostitutes, even if we are talking per night, 100 dollars for the so-called strike at the black rate, it was 400 rubles. 400 rubles was the salary, 400-500 rubles was the salary of a general or academician, or whatever i don’t know any people’s artist of the ussr, i don’t know, the director of some theater, that is , it was a lot, by the way, after this material there was an open meeting of the cpsu central committee and it was decided to make changes to the administrative code of the soviet union ,

it was indicated there that such a phenomenon has now existed since the eighty-sixth year, there is a punishment for it, some kind of fine of 250 rubles. if we are talking about moscow prostitutes from the late eighties, whom i remember, they would all be very good company, this there were girls, as a rule, with a sense of humor, uh, as a rule, they were, uh, women , the kind who understood how life works, knew what they wanted from men and from life in general, yes, they were there , uh, if we’re talking about the moral aspect, in general there were scoundrels there, they could set them up, they could betray someone from their competitors, well, besides, as you found out, many of these girls, they

worked as if in the interests of the country, in principle, this is a world practice, not only in the soviet union, i had a friend, by the way, i even have a photograph that was taken by a friend of mine from that time, a very promising... here nikita, i don’t know what he’s doing now, but he’s on tour, no, no, he wasn’t a pimp, he was a connection, that’s the person who recruited is a prostitute to work for, let’s say, the law enforcement agency, and i just know a few episodes. so significant, let’s say, significant for world politics,

when nikita’s wards served the overall benefit of the fatherland, so in principle, not everything was so simple on the tour, of course, i was very were strongly reproached, because a year or two later there was a survey of anonymous high school students in leningrad in riga, and many high school students... high school girls said that they wanted to become prostitutes, just referring to this profession, they thought that it was my fault that i popularized this craft, i categorically do not accept these reproaches , in principle, many years later i read from leonid afonsky in his anthology of victory, the concept of my material, which i had no idea about, his... i really appreciate the assessment, i will not tell you load now with details, you

you can find it yourself on the net, the anthology of victory ofotsky, he explained to me there what i was writing about, why i was writing, i felt like john lenn at that moment, john len once gave an interview to rolling stone magazine, and he said that he what he likes most is to read reviews of his songs, to find out what exactly was meant, so many years later i learned about the end of time. about what i meant while working at the moskovsky-komsomolets newspaper in the late eighties, it was a podcast chronicle of the end of times, my name is evgeniy dodalev. minor-key discussions about loneliness and despair, unhappy love and experiences that will resonate in the soul of every

person; these songs can be considered as an expression of the russian sad soul. hello, today we have gathered with thoughts about russian rock, as a cultural phenomenon about the spiritual search of russian musicians. hello, dear friends, vyacheslav butusov, alexey belov, i am very glad to see you. what i read was from a modern article dedicated to russian rock, yeah, i would like this as a warm-up question, and to ask you how ready you are to agree with this, i would say that my aspirations now to talk about happy love are more than about unhappy love, but you are talking about now, in principle, if we can to say, this is how the author of this article believes that a large segment of the rock position is an expression of the russian sad soul, aleksey nikolaevich, well, in

some ways he is right, of course, because, because if we say that - so to speak, dig deeper and to say that sadness is about bose, that is, about god, then it’s probably true, yes, well, it’s well-known state of the russian person, because he never imagines himself in some kind of ideal, so he is always sad that he has not achieved something that he could have achieved, at least looking on icons on holy saints, yes, well, that is, this is sadness not about the imperfection of the world , but... in its internal state , the imperfection of the world is also probably in some way, of course, because this is also sadness from a person, you know that once there was a paradise and everything was there, even animals talked there, and then here it is like this history, and what is the transition from this sadness to the joy that you just talked about, well, i would say that it happens with difficulty, because what alexey is talking about is about those

losses that occurred after.. after that, kakam, the first man, left paradise and came to this world, so to speak, to nourish it with his own efforts, of course, with god’s help, but man has lost a lot, including things associated with nature, with nature, yes, if there in paradise, the animals knew him perfectly, they understood each other, moreover, adam was, so to speak, their patron of the earth, yes he named names , yes he gave names, then as soon as he left the gate, and as soon as archangel michael closed the gate with his sword, uh, the animals stopped recognizing adam and they told him they said directly, you have lost the image of god, we don’t recognize you, they started growling at him, and they are still growling, listen, i called rock musicians, theologians and friends came, but i still want

to torture you a little, you know, here to ask you, perhaps, to step back a little, here... maybe even from the current internal experiences, although we will definitely talk about them, but i would still like to talk to you, you know, how in science there is such a method of included analysis, yes, when, because the scientist is usually aloof, yes, included analysis is when a person he himself is involved in some process and he describes it, right? so, you know, with the courage of an amateur i want to ask you this question, if i understand correctly, russian rock has two sources, this is english-language music, and this is russian literature and, more broadly, russian culture. that's as far as you can with this setup the question is to agree how comfortable, well, if i may say so, the russian lesson is comfortable, with these two parents, well, regarding the english language, alexey, i think, is very cool, now he will tell you, maybe he can say it better, including the richer experience in english, yes, but still, russian rock has it, it’s not, not a russian phenomenon

, you know, the phenomenon itself is not... russian, but let’s say, i was lucky enough to be friends with such a person as frank zapa, and an absolutely brilliant musician , so he, uh, loved russian music enormously, for him storinsky was there, it’s something there, yes, and he constantly reminded us of this , this is the second half of the 19th century, the composers of those who were called the mighty bunch, especially musorsky, who, in fact, probably most inspired strovensky, in fact, even while in the united states, uh, i suddenly found out that the most played composer in the world is chikovsky, i didn’t know before, i was so surprised, so i asked my friend who was in second place, she studied the classics , she says, in second place is storovsky, in third

rakhmayin, this is a playlist of classical radio stations in america, you know, that’s why, despite the fact that we took a lot from english-language rock, this is, of course, a colossal school, colossal material in its own way, depth of depth, they took a lot from our russian music, that’s why this is all for a reason, this is the cycle of water in nature, well, this is really what you remember, our beloved marina drevna zhurinskaya wrote about rock, when as a phenomenon of world culture, but to me it’s natural... the next one, so to speak, was stage in general in the development of culture, just like literature, well, you can call it, who, so to speak, adopted it to a greater extent from whom , it is also such a complex process, it continues to some extent, and as for modern music, then we can say that everything there was very much crushed due to the infiltration

of various stylistics and sub-stylistics. that is, this is a branch that simply goes into subtle music, which is so specific that they, so to speak, dissolve themselves into... branches, then into twigs, into sheets, here, the actual structure is the same, i will definitely ask about this, again with the arrogance of an amateur, but i want to return to the topic of literature, because in my understanding, russian rock, of course, inherits russian literature, i’m here for you now i listened, you said about literature, i remembered that dostoevsky told us about responsiveness. russian literature and in the famous pushkin speech, that this is the genius of pushkin, that he could be, in contrast to this, it’s interesting, without inventing anything, if this is the theme of responsiveness

russian literature, it is preserved in russian rock, we can say that russian rock is responsive, but i think so, yes, because we are so closely connected in general with the canons of literature that in my opinion, i don’t know where else it’s like this the text is developed, for example, in combination with music, but for us this is definitely a very important thing, and you will agree, alexey nikolavich, that it seems to me that this is such a slightly clichéd perception that russian rock is more text, or is it based on the text, and the western one on music, so i just heard the opinion that this is a very simplified perception, especially in the west there is such a thing, yes, few people know that in the english language there are more than 100 thousand words more than in russian, and the words of shakespeare are more than the words of pushkin, so, but russian rock, it’s nowhere without a word, just, you know, if there’s no word, then there’s no russian rock, in english

rock, the word also meant a lot, there it was conceptual and cult performers, and the performers were those who used the word, masterfully, such groups like pink floyd, the same lezeplin, for example, i was as a child, i didn’t know ledzeplin from ddeor. i liked both, but being, already living like this, in the united states, i suddenly discovered that for a long time there were some giants, gigantic, and depipal is such a strong pop-rock band, yes, that’s when the nineties came, then such a movement as alternative music appeared , there it was no longer possible without a word, everyone paid attention to the word, although curt kaban was there too, he chewed the words and it was not clear what he was saying, but nevertheless deciphered.. everyone understood that he was trying to talk about something important say, but in our country the musical part probably suffered more often, in general in our country , precisely from the point of view of rock, here in our country, well

, at first, when there was the soviet union, they banned everything altogether, i just personally went through it, and then just people didn’t go much deeper, so probably russian rock has a big... future, when they begin to analyze the entire past, very seriously, precisely from the point of view of russian music, then they will shovel all of dostoevsky, then they will be able to create something of genius i want here at as you are called from this place in more detail, we once talked about this topic , and then this thought stuck with me, including , forgive me for its non-obviousness, but you said the best of russian rock is ahead, and if it can be combined with the depth of dostoevsky . yes, then this will be what we are all waiting for, yes, there is consistency, yes, but to what extent , well, again, i don’t want to offend anyone, but in my understanding, but dostoevsky is this symphonic music, in any case,

is not necessary, the same pink floyd is this such a stripped-down dostoevsky, yes, yes, very fragmented, so they tried, so to speak, to dig up such philistinism, and so, in fact, they achieved a certain effect, of course, it reaches the width... millions of times, i really liked the statement, i forgot his name, this an actor who received five or six amys, it’s like that in tv series , it’s such an oscar, so he came to orthodoxy , he says, i discovered dostoevsky, i often have to play scary people, some kind of scoundrels, so i suddenly realized that dostoevsky wrote about terrible things from the perspective of light, uh-huh, this is very difficult, this is very difficult, and there is a huge power for rock music - this is just a colossal field of activity. do you agree that

the russian’s hand is still ahead? theoretically this is possible, but the way events develop diplomatically, no, well, i’m just watching how modern music develops, it’s quite possible that at some level it will gain a little. another breakthrough will happen, another revolution, and it will be a different level quality, don’t you think that this is still too binding for rock music? this is a proposal, or what? or am i wrong here? well, in my opinion, this is a good level that allows a person not only to develop, but even to improve in some sense , we are talking about the spirit, and so to speak, the form of the word, a certain aesthetics of some kind, about how the thought itself, yes, how deep this all is, uh, really. regarding

anything and everything that is happening now, with him are gogol, and pushkin, and leo tolstoy, in spite of everything, with gogol it’s even somehow easier for me, i can’t explain it, but just like that, intuitively, somehow it doesn’t arise for me, nothing sticks out to me, gogol rock, i somehow have it all i somehow understand gogol - it’s punk, in general, in my opinion, it has such a specific language, especially from the current point of view, why? when i read, for example, classics, yes, literary ones, i notice how rich the language is, how everything is carefully structured there, how everything is formulated there, in gogol he has very a peculiar language. punk among the classics. the main ukrainian historical fake is almost 100 years old. all this was born in the vast empire of the american media. why did us capitalists need the myth of the holodomor? the invention of ukrainian emigration,

a special commission was created in the united states of america, and it began to artificially promote this topic. and what role did hitler’s rich friend play in this? hearst is the founder of, essentially, the yellow press, while he was an ardent anti-soviet and a fugitive with forged documents. antifake, premiere, tomorrow on the first. what is not allowed. calm down, criminal investigation department. they surrounded me from all sides, this is your job , remove your emotions, turn on your brains, make a list, in your situation, you can’t trust anyone, what’s your cop, i wanted to talk to you, who are you? are you concerned about the fate of kristina legacheva? after all, there was never any manuscript, right? answer, just don't lie to me, this is a bomb that can... explode this

damn scoop, wait, wait, wait, now we have two murders, we have to start from the beginning, sergey bezrukov, in the serial film by valery todorovsky, bison, the business of a fashion model, tomorrow, after the program, butusov, alexey belov, i’m vladimir ligoida, we are talking about russian rock as a cultural phenomenon. i know, what else i want to talk to you about is about a personal journey, this is the first question, this is what you think, this is the spiritual quest that we obviously see in the life path of musicians in their work, this is connected to a greater extent with the generation , because this is the time of search, yes, the end of the eighties, the beginning of the nineties, and not only the musicians passed by. this path or

what you do, it left its mark, is this more the reason, or is it both, what do you think? it seems to me that sooner or later in the life of every person there comes a moment when, well, he begins to think more about, uh, what is happening in his life, how it happens, and you begin to understand, so to speak, well, seeing over the years, how this world develops, you begin to ask certain questions and, in general, to be honest, for me the path of the human attention - this is that we increasingly notice over the years how the world is in an alarming situation, if we take there, for example, childhood and school, yes, i didn’t care much about what was happening around, except for the fact that in international... in