[000:00:00;00] the garden of earthly pleasures, and you see, the 14th-15th centuries were strict times, then playing music was already considered a sinful thing, and although it was generally, by our standards, completely harmless things, just playing musical instruments, notes are also depicted there, therefore it seems to me that in this case this is a measure that... a person chooses for himself, of course, that’s how much it pleases, and if you really want this to be desired, you just need to cut off any blasphemy, any heresy, and any bad language, just need to cleanse yourself, everyone was doing this, including the revolutionaries, but i don’t think that gogol didn’t understand this, he understood, of course, but why

did he have such... yes, the solution is there, i don’t want to go into biographical details now, but he, well this is a sinusoid, this is characteristic of a person , this is human nature, and i think that maybe there was no such person next to him or he was not looking for such a person, although we used to often go to optina putin and lived in even the monastery, now women are not allowed there, before they were allowed in, and we went at... the service they gave me a memorial to read, here are those who, who came there, and there is gogol, here is dostoevsky, in fact, they got there, they, they got there, they entered in a rush, unlike tolstoy, yes, yes, i i think that maybe he didn’t ask the most important question from one of these elders, and about his creativity, perhaps everything would have been different,

i just...’ i just want to come back to you , i was asking about generations there or whether it’s related to creativity, because that’s how it seems to me, god knows, maybe i’m being deceived, but it seems to me that my path , for example, is quite standard, that is, at the end of school - this is russian literature, this is dostoevsky, how you first start thinking there, then it’s just the end of the eighties that they start publishing russian philosophers whom we did not know, and you begin to read about the gospel, about the church, there is actually the gospel itself, and then at some point, in my life, it was just a man, we taught, by the way, from the conservatory stories i taught music, and he was generally casual, he told us about the music of ancient india or something, the origins of may, latin america, epinaztli, chilitli, this whole story, musical instruments, i still remember the name, and we something... then they asked him about something, the word church was heard, and there was a post, now i understand that he himself was such an absolute neophyte, he says, well, i think

that you are white there... don’t go, but black there, and it wasn’t that he said, yes, that it was such an unofficial twist, yes, in that he said that well, well, what’s the point of reading if you don’t go there, if you don’t live in this house, that’s how he is, and this path, it seems to me, well, as i say, the path of such university boys, with you it was probably different somewhere , it didn’t matter or it was similar, we sometimes had to go down to hell in order to push off, in order to understand what it was, but that’s why, probably, everything- yes, another way, somewhat, well, this is a strong phrase shlaginvich, i think that i’m quite late in general the church came because, uh, it was my fate that i lived for 15 years in krasnoyarsk , where i was born, and i’ll be honest, i then tried to remember at least one church, i didn’t remember it, purely physically, i’m just on the way

to my... i didn’t see the church, which means either i didn’t see it, that is, my perception was so dulled, yes, or they really weren’t there, which is possible, because the city is quite new, plus, so to speak, the consequences of the bolshevik destruction, but nevertheless, here i came after college, after school, after even after i worked as a specialist, an architect, and for a long time i perceived music only as an amateur activity, as actual entertainment for myself. alexey nikolavich, your phrase that we had to go down to hell haunts me, this is how you live now with these memories, what do they mean in your life today, are you trying to forget, no,

it’s impossible to forget them, i think that you need to remember, you need to remember, so to speak, not to be forgotten, this is all for a reason, it’s all part of the path, the robber had to be crucified next to christ, in order to understand who is hanging next to him on the cross, to shout to him, lord, in your kingdom, when you come to the kingdom, this is also a terrible path, he killed people, he had definitely already been to ado, before that, well, that’s when i was the first to enter heaven. today we gathered our thoughts about russian rock. as a cultural phenomenon vyacheslav butusov, alexey belov, i ’m vladimir, we continue, i want to return a little bit to the search for generations, because among people, yes, that means in different spheres of culture, at the same time, when we were looking, we were all looking, but in the cinema there were these searches

, now we have a film about balabanov coming out, here was slava’s anniversary, everyone gathered at my house, they gave interviews, quietly. hello, is there a celebration here? no, no, thank you, what are you talking about, i said, the very top to the left. oh, excuse me, you have, man, experience, yes, interaction with him, that’s how, how do you remember it now? firstly, alexey and i knew each other for a long time, starting from college times, then he came to st. petersburg, i gathered a crowd one day in a cafe,

a huge cafe, an extra crowd, just because slav will play a song there, and it was a feature film, it turned out, free, everything is absolutely, a walk in the park without a dog, it can become too much for you... the road, the mother teaches the morgue phone number by heart, when she’s gone, at home for too long, and all this time , so to speak, we watched each other in the sense that he was building a cinematic career, and all this happened before my eyes, he naturally, so to speak , watched what was happening with us, at a certain stage already with me, thoughts arose, well, somehow that we need to help each other

, so to speak, just on this path, yes, on the path to god, i may not be a very good, so to speak, helper in this sense from the point of view eloquence, to pronounce the necessary words, yes, but one way or another, in general, i tried with alexey on this topic. talk, but sometimes he had a categorical attitude for a long time, because he was very passionate about cinema, for him it was a whole world in which he lived, ruled, everything else had, so to speak, applied significance to this, as it seemed to me, but as you can see, at the end, so to speak, of his path, so to speak, professionally and humanly, he still came to this topic, i tried for a very long time to persuade him to film some kind of a fairy tale or something like that, well, relatively speaking, yes, i even had options for writing

various stories for synopses, and every time he told me that i’m not ready yet, i ’m not mentally ready for this, i want to, but i not ready, well, as a result, here is the last film, this is actually such a parable, by and large. that all this is already happening there in this abandoned bell tower and the film itself and the name of the film and the essence of this story, that i also want, everyone wants, in the end, and i, like a fool, my name is the cross, i almost fell, it is heavy wooden , a huge cross, here i am waiting, someone will support me, because i could fall, and a crowd of people is following me, and i... in general, somehow i passed, precisely because of that, i could fall and everything, but because of the people who followed me, here’s a strange story,

yes, i know, how it fits together for me, you said correctly, how to connect this with what we are talking about, that’s why for me russian rock is a continuation of russian literature, and inherits russian literature, because russian literature is that , which gives us a space of meanings and... language , yes, we speak with these images, we remember these heroes, and the same thing with russian rock, yes, here are your songs, they enter our lives, it ’s interesting that soviet cinema was the cinema of our language, right? this is post-soviet, as far as i am concerned, maybe with many will not agree with me, but by and large, these are the films brother in brother-2, these are the ones that have entered the language, it seems to me that this also comes together here, but these searches, some kind of internal ones and well, the result, yes, when what is made by man becomes part of the language, of course, yes, but i also wanted to add that in addition to literature, symphonic music is still of great importance. i

have been actively interested in this in recent years and i can say that there is a lot of such pressure in academic music and symphonic music, which sweeps away even worse than rock music, you know, at the beginning of its time it was cool rock, just yes, time is forward, this is just a concrete example of what it is. look, we said about the bright future of russian rock, we said about symphonic music , but young people, let’s be honest, don’t listen, not all of them, young people are different, and any generalization is unfair to someone, but still today they don’t they listen to rock the way they listened, once upon a time, yes, some time ago, so i may be sharpening, intentionally,

but i don’t see in modern... russian music, continuity with the great russian literature, with the great russian culture with russian rock, i don’t see it there, i’m wrong, at one time such a terrible word for music appeared, it appeared in the nineties , the word format, then everything began to be divided, because before that everything was somehow together , if you take there, let’s say, there are the seventies, there is rock pop music and some kind of disc, it was all together, and then it began to be divided into... formats, and then they appeared trends, here’s rap, it didn’t just appear like that, you don’t need to know anything in particular, you don’t need to study, and especially music there, make yourself these beats, so to speak, there, then continue to say what comes to mind, this is what this is also supported by the industry, it is on its own, it would not have lasted long, this is also a stage that says that everything should begin, so to speak, develop in a new circle and... it will not go anywhere and over time it will be those very things that will sprout

seeds that are the most tenacious, that is, on the more interesting ones, which have some meaning behind them, but still one way or another, music, and at the core, as a manifestation of culture, literature, but this connection, this is this symbiosis, and people will always return to them, because that this is actually folk art. you are amazingly diplomatic today, in russian , modern rap, as it is called, there is a connection with the great russian literature, do you see it, or do you just hope that there are more opportunities for literary expression there than in rock, because there you need something... that broadcast something constantly, and a lot, there are a lot of opportunities, yes, yes, yes, another thing is how it is used, perhaps not enough, unfortunately, we are with you today, of course, we

had so many and... but i know in conclusion, what would i like to ask you about, since we talked a lot today about russian literature, if you had to advise our foreign contemporaries to get acquainted with russian literature, well, through some work or... i won’t say there , name three there yes, but that's what first comes to mind, lie on your heart, whatever you advised first of all, i am always ready to easily name pushkin , he has both poetry and prose, yes, this is one circumstance, the second circumstance is that he reached such heights in poetry that are already called fairy tales, yes, how, well, actually

, in general, pushkin, our everything, yes, yes , alexey nikolavich, what would you advise, well, i would probably rubanol dostoevsky, of course, but not everyone can handle it, yes, this is the man who opened for himself, said that he writes about terrible things from a position of light, not everyone can probably understand this, but nevertheless, i said in some interviews that i just had such friends who, they are cult musicians there and they are still cult musicians in the west, so we often visited such people are very interesting in gatherings, where you come to such a house , there, ah, people... walk around in clothes from the 16th century, so the hostess sits down at the piano, everyone came just for this, they start playing neoclassical music, how interesting , then they start talking, then it turns out that

one of the people is such a leading screenwriter, golivodsky, i didn’t even know how he wrote so many films, so we just talked to him - about literature and when i said the word dostoevsky, and he suddenly changed, his face changed and so straight someone suddenly became completely different and bowed like that, i think he was bowing to me or something, he bowed like that, said, oh, dostoevsky, yes, and, of course, there are people who understand this, yes, they understand, sooner or later, after all, i was listening to you just now, i remembered watching some series recently, an american detective series, and there are two detectives sitting in the car, one opens the glove compartment, the other dostoev, there is an idiot, dostoevsky, he says, a good book, then the doctor says, the book is good, and the second time he doesn’t even say anything to him, he just looks, says, well, what should i explain to you, thank you, dear friends, i am eternally grateful to you, today we had cult musicians, alexey bilov, vyacheslav butusov, i’m vladimir legoyda, we gathered our thoughts about russian rock as a

cultural phenomenon, thank you. hello friends, this is the chronicle podcast. the end of times, my name is evgeny dodalev and today i will tell you about how, at my suggestion, changes were made to the administrative code of the soviet union. this happened completely by chance, for some period i was unemployed, and being unemployed in the soviet union was impossible, it existed. in the criminal code, in my opinion, article 209, according to which tunyatsov , that is, people who were not registered and did not work anywhere, could be imprisoned, and i am a mathematician by training, and my friend worked in

the moscow komsomolets newspaper, was the host of the famous headings, soundtrack, and he told me, well, why are you even bothering about work, you write something there anyway, and we all wrote poetry there and some pseudo-scenes, and i got a job at a newspaper, received this moscow id komsomol member, since i was not burdened, firstly, with a specialized education, i repeat, i am a mathematician by education, and secondly, i was completely unaware of any existing taboos or prohibitions, then i simply became like an okyn who sings that he sees that i began to write about what was personally interesting to me, no one... did not put it, because the only thing there, i don’t know how it is now, was to give out a certain number of lines, and so, i kept surprising my colleague all the time, i said, let’s interview galina breshneva, everything is so, wow, like

galina leonidovna herself, the soviet princess, daughter of the former secretary general, but i didn’t understand what the actual problem was, why you couldn’t try to interview someone. well, actually we are approaching that moment, which , well, in my journalistic biography became to a certain extent, turning point and for thousands of thousands of women employed in the body trade industry, especially since we are talking about prostitutes already, or rather about the now forgotten word putana, this word was used to call currency prostitutes, that is, those girls who worked with foreigners, prostitution was not banned, because officially it simply did not exist, there was no such shameful phenomenon of a capitalist society in the country, because the country was socialist, in moscow also, well, if

we are talking about the disadvantages of the soviet system, it is very it was bad with public catering, it was pennies, very cheap, but let’s say, you could drink good italian coffee, well, in three or four places in moscow, currency exchange, and uh, it just coincided that next to the editorial office of the moscow komsomolets on street 1905 year, it is still located there next to the building in which it was in the mid-eighties, and we are now talking about the year eighty-six, so - there was a so-called kontik, this is what is now called the international trade center, according to - to my, uh, hotels... it was a hotel and you could drink coffee there, real coffee, and the entrance there was closed to mere mortals, as in all foreign exchange places, but not for journalists, i and my former classmate, also a mathematician, went there to

drink uh, coffee, in this one there was an atrium in this kontik, at any time of the day, right from morning until late evening, there sat uh girls who couldn’t help but attract attention, well, because of the presentation, neckline, short skirts, naturally, it would be simply insulting, it seems to me, in terms of attitudes towards girls in general if if we didn’t try to enter into communication with them and somehow get to know them, i... they quickly explained to us that if there is currency, no at all, no questions, right there, right there, in general, you can get to know each other, as closely as you like, and the girls and i became friends, they turned out to be generally of such a cheerful disposition, and since i will repeat myself, i usually wrote about what was interesting to me, but this phenomenon interested me, i decided to write an essay, sketched it, took it to to the secretariat, well, i

heard from the executive secretary there question, rhetorically, are you crazy, well, let’s just say it sounded different, but the message was , uh, well, crazy, so crazy, in general, i didn’t take the material, the paper was government-issued, i went to work there on something else, but some thought stuck. in the secretariat and uh, senior comrades, not so much senior in age, but in rank, in the secretariat they did something with this material and uh, it came out, the material was called night hunters, although originally it was called night butterflies, and there was a huge code like this, that is, from the editorial office, this is where it starts, from the editorial office it takes up, well, a quarter of the material, and there is so much in this material , uh, they said that words like that cannot be uttered, and there about something so shameful, then

boom, there’s just the letter combination prostitute, that is, the word cannot be pronounced, but it was said, because as i understand it, a huge number of people there rule - this material, that is, here he went to the position station, someone basically called a spade a spade, then this material came out the next day , when i arrived at the editorial office, literally through half an hour... the editor-in-chief invited me, i came to his office with pasha , of course, no one called him pasha to his face, everyone was behind pavel nikolaevich, but behind his back they called him pasha, and so pasha had two people sitting in civilian clothes , well, he was still chewing on it, well, again, he didn’t say exactly that, but the meaning of such a question was, and portraying such anger, severity and such discontent. but from the cheerful sparkles in my eyes, i realized that not everything was so bad, that

no one would take me to the nalubyanka now, in general these were two officers, a mayor and a colonel, as they introduced themselves, they said that it was a very interesting article, but you are very right , however, there are nuances, the fact is that they did not care about the security officers at all, this whole moral and ethical side, and they were interested very much from a purely utilitarian aspect, they were from the department that fought against the illegal circulation of currency, the currency could not be stored, owned, or used, they said that they were completely fed up with the situation with the circulation of currency, that they were being asked, what fight it is necessary, but there is a whole cohort - these prostitutes who take this currency, and therefore turn it around. and something needs to be done about it, they said that they would help, firstly, they would introduce uh, to girls who would tell

me what i couldn’t hear from them, uh, while drinking coffee in the atrium, by the way, they knew about that peetya and i often, uh, visit there, there is an important nuance that in these uh hotels, such as the national, on gorkovogo street, the current one, tverskaya, kontik, continental and in all these other institutions, they are there for the position of doormen , the people who stood at the so-called gates were taken exclusively from veterans, uh, security forces, that is, people from the special services, that’s no less, a police major had to be a person in his previous life, or a captain of state security, no less, but well which, of course, there are no such thing as retirees, they there... continued to naturally cooperate with their somehow departments and something there - they reported, as it turned out, as

it turned out, but from this conversation, they said that they would provide. .. with the so -called textures, and by the way there was a texture impressive, they brought, let’s say, the telephone bills of the girls, uh, who were in development, there the telephone bills, let’s say they were 3,000, 2,000 rubles per month, the salary was with the engineer there 120 rubles, 150, there the chief editor magazine or newspaper received 250, but here just for telephone conversations, well, it’s clear that it’s international, with clients, that is, it made an impression on me, absolutely, when i looked at these printouts there, it’s like, wow, interesting, here we go work, so they arranged a date for me, it’s just in the national with the girls who were told that they needed

to talk to the zhurik, and this is an offer in which they could not. refuse, i didn’t ask questions, why the hell, they’re being frank with me, it happened in no place, not in the lobby, not in the unit, just in a hotel room, because in every hotel there were these types of recruiters - like that - apartments, not apartments, points - with listening equipment, and so on, by the way, not a little, to the side i later, after after moscow. soon moved to the first private soviet newspaper, which was created by yuliana semyonovich semenov, it was called top secret, i was the first full-time employee of sofsec, here is our editorial office, the so-called headquarters, as yulikana semyonovich called it, it was located on kalinin street, on kalinin avenue, now this is a new arbat, in the building where the melodiya store

was on the first floor, just in one of the recruiting rooms... that is, the apartments where prostitutes worked, where they introduced those clients, which had to be promoted and developed in the interest of the special services, but this, by the way, is a separate story , that is, they dumped me with invoices, said that they really needed to focus on currency, they were interested in somehow to legitimize this turnover, that is, so that the laws are not so harsh. because it was impossible to fight it anyway, so some kind of liberalization of legislation was required from their point of view, i was always for liberalization, at least on that stage absolutely absolutely, so i was somewhat embarrassed that i was like, well, there were special services there, security officers, well, well, i was so young, of course, a fool, so i somehow, in an easy way, got into the habit, like, but what,

they said we won’t interfere at all, we gave an invoice. it’s important for us that this be heard, but in general we won’t read the material, but only in the newspaper, when it comes out , well, i’m like, well, if that’s the case, then there are no questions at all, so, well, that means i started writing this material, well, how dictate, dictated so much that it did not fit on a newspaper strip, previously in the soviet union materials the size of an entire newspaper page had not been practiced, there was simply no such format, this... was impossible, well, only if these were materials from the next congress of the communist party, which were located on the front page, and so that it was a newspaper some kind of publication, essay, report, no, this, well, it was simply not allowed, but i created material of exactly this volume, and the editorial board

decided that it would publish this material in two parts. there's half a lane in one room and in the next issue there are other half-strips, a white dance title, i was very proud that i came up with such a name, like a white dance , where the ladies invite gentlemen, there were portraits, well, in the sense of reportage portraits described, very specific characters and these girls, some of them i was impressed, i was impressed by one mother who put her daughter vika... 15 years since she, in her own words, put her on skis, that is, prepared her for prostitution, for prestigious prostitution, of course, this may surprise many people, but himself in fact, prostitutes , specifically currency prostitutes, we are not talking about those who worked there at train stations or somewhere else, but prostitutes

are just like force workers, it was to a certain extent soviet. they communicated with the same golden youth, they communicated with famous people, again with the same luggage, in general it was not shameful, well, in general, there’s a lot of money, that’s something and that means, in stupid, by the way, there was a joke, probably many of you have heard it, that when they are detained, during work the prostitute is brought to the stronghold of the opera asks, how can this be, i look at your file, your mother is a ballerina in the past, your father is actually a member of the academy, but you have become a chain, how can this be? says, well, i was just lucky, uh, i repeat, they were all, uh, they were welcomed, they knew, but i mean these so -called centers, uh, that means,

some specific characters were described, uh, a lot, of course, of that , what the girls told me, i could not reproduce in the material, i was very impressed there, by the way, i still have these audio recordings, if on on these dictaphone cassettes, they didn’t... didn’t turn into powder, many things surprised me, i asked karina there, as i remember now, one of them was, what will you do if, well, they shoot you for this matter, she she said we’ll raise the price tag, quite calmly, she said, that is, that is, the tariffs will simply change , by the way, it’s amazing that those girls with whom we met with vatriomi, those girls with whom they set me up. security officers, they, if we talk about the female component, about attractiveness, it was nothing special, that is, they weren’t some bombshell spherical beauties, the presentation there was good, they dressed expensively and

unusually, that is, they were not from the tssuma gum, in principle, in terms of texture they were with the very same, well , in general, completely ordinary, foreigners are very girls were quoted like this, well... these are reviews from girls about the clients themselves , because there were also completely different categories, for example, but they really didn’t like finns, they, because finns came to

the soviet union, there was something like dry they have laws then, well, in general they are very they drank heavily, that is, they got drunk as a pig and, of course, a drunk client is in general not always good, that is, to get drunk there or leave with a broken jaw... the room and there is no one to complain to, you won’t go to the facial department there and say, that i was confused here in the kontik and my cat broke my jaw, and they were afraid of the eastern ones from the most different moments, so to speak, but they adored the japanese, the japanese are just a dream, by the way there was one there, i remember very much, that’s very it was interesting... but she didn’t she just worked with the japanese, she married a japanese man who came here for work and lived in this kontik and caused a wild burning of all the goods, because she didn’t

have to pay 10 rubles to go to the hotel, she then just she sat there like, well, like in a buffet, she just had everything at hand, by the way, she had the opportunity to dump, that is , she lowered the fee there a little, that is, not for 100 dollars. i worked there for 30, 50, i just walked around the floors of this condo, knocked, uh, like in a room like room service, it’s like, don’t you want a massage there or relax there , that’s why they loved the japanese, the japanese were generous and very polite and there were also all sorts of nice things, like in the form of gifts, there treats, that is, uh it was a desirable one, uh, the client was japanese, they loved the french and italians, why, because they were naked and they married them very often, but in general getting married