[000:00:00;00] yes, the phenomenon itself is not russian, but let’s say i was lucky enough to be friends with such a person as frank zapa, yes, a brilliant musician, absolutely, and, uh, he loved russian music enormously, for him storinsky was, that’s something there, yes, and he constantly reminded us of this, this second half of the 19th century, composers, those who were called a mighty bunch, especially mussorsky. this is who, in fact, probably inspired strovinsky most of all; in fact, even while in the united states, i suddenly learned that the most played in the world the composer is tchaikovsky, i didn’t know before, i was so surprised, so i asked my friend who was in second place, she studied classics, she says storinsky is in second place, she is in third rahmann, this is a playlist of classical radio stations in

america, you see, yes. therefore, despite the fact that we took a lot from english-language rock, this is of course a colossal school, colossal material in its own way , the depth of depth, they took a lot from our russian music, that’s why it’s all for a reason, it’s a cycle of water v nature, but this is really what you remember, our beloved marina anreevna zhurinskaya wrote about rock when it was considered a phenomenon of world culture, right? in my opinion, this is a natural, the next, so to speak, stage in general in the development of culture, just like literature, well, you can call it, who, so to speak, adopted it from whom to a greater extent, this is also such a complex process, in what way -continues to a degree, and well, as for modern music, we can say that everything there has been very much reduced due to

the influx of various... stylistics, sub-stylistic, that is, this is a branch that simply goes into subtle music , which is so specific that they , so to speak, gradually dissolve themselves in the air, because if you look at the architecture of the structure of a tree, yes, when it first goes out into such powerful branches , then into twigs, into sheets into sheets, here the actual structure is the same, i will definitely ask about this, again with the arrogance of an amateur, but i want to return to the topic of literature, because in my understanding, russian rock, of course, inherits russian literature, i just now i was listening to you, you said about literature, i remembered that dostoevsky told us about the responsiveness of russian literature, and in the famous pushkin speech, that this is the genius of pushkin, that he could be, unlike this, it’s interesting, without inventing anything , if this theme of the responsiveness of russian literature, it persists in russian rock

, we can say that russian rock is responsive, but i think yes, because we are so closely connected in general with the canons of literature that in my opinion, i don’t know, where else is the text so developed? for example, in combination with music , but for us this is definitely a very important thing, and you will agree, alexey nikolavich, that it seems to me that this is such a slightly clichéd perception that... rock is more of a text or is it based on a text, and the western one is into music, so i just heard the opinion that this is a very simplified perception, especially the western one, yes, few people know that in the english language there are more than 100 thousand words more than in russian, and shakespeare’s word is more than words of pushkin, but russian is rock, he is nowhere without a word, you just understand, if there is no word, then there is no russian rock, in english rock, the word

also meant a lot, there were a lot of conceptual and cult performers, and those who used the word became the performers, the workshop of such groups as pink floyd, the same ledzen, i for example, when i was a child, i didn’t distinguish ledzelin from ddepol, i liked both of them, but when i was already living like this in the united states, i suddenly discovered that for a long time there were some giants, giant ones, and depi was such a strong pop-rock - a group, and that’s when... or the nineties, then this appeared flow, like alternative music, there it was already impossible without a word, there everyone paid attention to the word, although there was that curt kaban, he lived the words and it was not clear what he was saying, but nevertheless, deciphering the words, everyone understood that he was about he’s trying to say something important, but in our country the musical part probably suffered more often, in general in our country, precisely from the point of view of rock, here

in our country, well, at first, when it was soviet... everything was generally prohibited, i just personally went through this passed, and then people just didn’t become very strong go deeper, so probably the russian lesson has a great future, when , uh, they begin to analyze the entire past, very seriously, namely the russians from the point of view of russian music, then they will shovel all of dostoevsky , then they will be able to do something brilliant, that’s what i want here you - what is the name from this place in more detail, you and i once talked about this topic, and then this thought stuck with me, including, excuse me, its non-obviousness, yes, you said the best of russian rock is ahead, and if this ... will be able to connect with the depth of dostoevsky, yes, then this this will be what we are all waiting for, yes, consistency, yes, that’s how much , well, again, i don’t want to offend anyone, but in my understanding, but dostoevsky is

symphonic music, in any case, not necessarily, the same pink floyd - this is such a stripped-down dostoevsky, yes, yes, very fragmented, so they tried , so to speak, to dig into such philistinism, and so, in fact, they achieved a certain effect, of course, dostoevsky is millions of times wider, i really liked it statement, i forgot his name is an actor who received five or six emmys, it’s like in tv series it’s an oscar, so he came to orthodoxy, he says: i discovered dostoevsky, i often have to play scary people, some kind of scoundrels, so i suddenly realized that dostoevsky wrote about terrible things from the perspective of light, uh-huh, this is very difficult, this is very... and this is a huge strength for rock music - it’s just a colossal field of activity, and you agree, what's still ahead for russian rock? theoretically

this is possible, but the way they develop reacted diplomatically to the events, no, but i’m just watching how modern music is developing, it’s quite possible that this... that level will take on a slightly completely different breakthrough, another turn will happen, and this will be a different level of quality, here you go it doesn’t seem that this is still too binding, it is for rock music that such a proposal is something, or am i wrong here, in my opinion this is a good level that allows a person not only to develop, but even to improve in any way i mean, speech it’s about the spirit, and so to speak, the form of the word, a certain aesthetics, some kind, about how the thought itself is formed, yes, how deep it all is, really deep, in relation to

something, yes, what is happening now, with him are gogol, and pushkin, and leo tolstoy, no matter what, with guggol it’s even somehow easier for me, i can’t explain it, but it’s so intuitive. somehow it doesn’t occur to me, nothing sticks out to me, gogol, rock, i somehow understand it all somehow, gogol is punk, in general, in my opinion, he has such a specific language, especially from the current point of view, and why do i, when i read, for example, classics, and literary ones, i notice how rich the language is, how everything is carefully built there, how everything is formulated there, in gogol he has a very a peculiar language. punk among the classics, vyacheslav butusov, alexey bilov, i’m vladimir ligoida, we’re talking about russian rock as a cultural phenomenon, i know what else i want to talk to you about, about my personal journey, that’s

the first question, that’s what you think, here spiritual searches, which we obviously see in the life path of musicians in their work, this is connected to a greater extent with the generation, because this is a time of search, right? the end of the eighties, the beginning of the nineties, and not only musicians went through this path, or after all, what you are doing left its mark, this is more of the reason, or it is both, that’s what you think, it seems to me that sooner or later in the life of every person there comes a moment when, well, he begins to think more about about, uh, what is happening in his life, how it is happening, you begin to understand, to say, well , seeing over many years how this world is developing, you begin to ask certain questions and in general, to be honest, for me the path of human attention

is this the fact that we are increasingly noticing over the years how alarming the world is, if we take, for example, childhood and school, yes, i didn’t care much about what was happening around me, except that in the international panorama could you see some short excerpts of probble, here, but i can say that this didn’t concern me at all, not only because i wasn’t interested in it, it was as if i was protected by some kind of force, some kind of cover, such, you know, a conditional cap, so mystical, when you begin to think how to protect yourself, so to speak, so as not to dry out completely, in this raging world, then of course you wonder how this can be achieved, this is the path to god, but the most difficult thing is when you

understand that yes, there is a way out, there is salvation, this is love, this is the path to god, yes, as anthony of surosh said, at the last judgment, it will become clear to us that the only thing that was valuable in this life is love, and so, when you realize at this moment that you need to go to, let alone improve to such degree, as, as jesus said in his sermon, like our heavenly father, yes, to be perfect, at this moment, other things terrify you, that you need to uproot this entire field, and this is a very painful process, uprooting stumps and roots, he not like that, just like that,

he crashed a little. very complex, time-consuming and painful, and after that you can, so to speak, plow this soil and sow it, but if i understand you correctly, you think that this is still connected with age and generation, and not rather than with what you were engaged, i thought so until some time, until i was faced with the fact that i saw young people, which - in our time, maybe even more difficult in some sense. because it’s more intense , more tousled, yes, because the passions are right on the surface, and so at that moment when i saw these young people, i i joked a little in my theory, it has nothing to do with age , well, it’s good when we, so to speak, can stagger into the theory, alexey nikovich, what do you think, now i’m just talking about personal search, this it had more to do with time, what was in the air in general, or with what you were doing, like yours.

that the lord determines his own path for everyone, and so he leads everyone along this path, because when i came to faith, when i probably had the second such most important milestone, this there was a meeting with the saint, with father nikolai guryan, well, with the great elder , so i had a lot of questions, but one of them, since i had heard a lot about music, about rock and other things, here... it was in the bowels of the church, so i went up to my father and said, father, but my craft is pleasing to god or not , so he smiled and said, whatever, whatever, so he knew that i had positive and negative experiences, once upon a time, that’s when the party gorko appeared and we made different works, here and there we tried to go deeper, something we had was just like this straight rock rock, it’s true that along the way we began to change very much.

strong a lot and changed, changed, until the very end, until the group, so to speak, functioned in full force, we changed all the time, when the first album came out, then there was no internet and letters poured in from all over the world, i saw these bags , they put bags, bags, bags, it was just one day, and they told me, read this pile of letters, so i started reading, there were letters from all over the world, and in almost all the letters it was written like this this was the reason for just one song, thanks to you, this song helped me not to commit suicide, this was my first positive experience, although i did not change then, rock and roll remained, i still flew like a meteor, for a long time, a few more years, here we go, and later there was a negative experience, and this is all part of the journey, that’s why i was just embarrassed and i needed to ask this question, and i asked, but look, this is a question: it’s even, here we are today remembered gogol, perhaps

not by chance, yes, after all, gogol without every fate experienced this internal colossal conflict, and i think, here’s your question, my craft, maybe he said creativity, i don’t know, in some other way, whether god wants it, it’s not at all a fact that he answered it, and or it’s definitely not a fact that he answered the same way as you, yes, rather, he said, my craft, my creativity is not needed, i’m deliberately emphasizing now, yes, that is , this conflict, how it went for you, is passing, maybe still is, but it is, yes it is, and i think it will be uh. somehow way to develop, alexey was just talking about these things, and i remembered the famous painting by bosch, triptych , called the garden of earthly delights, and you see, the 14th-15th centuries were strict times,

then even playing music was considered a sinful thing, and although speech it was, in general, by our standards, completely... on harmless things, just playing musical instruments, notes are also depicted there, so it seems to me that in this case, this is a measure that a person chooses for himself, of course, that’s as much as he likes , and if you really want to it was whatever you wanted, you just need to cut off any blasphemy, any heresy, any foul language in yourself, it’s just that everyone did this, including the revolutionaries, but i don’t think that gogol didn’t understand this, he understood, of course, but why did he have that’s the decision there then, i don’t want to go into biographical details now, but he, well , this is a sine wave, this is typical for

a person, this is human nature, and i think that maybe there wasn’t such a person next to him... or he i wasn’t looking for such a person, although uh, we used to often we went to optina and even lived in a monastery, now they don’t allow women there, but before, they used to let them in, and we went to night services, they let me read the memorial, uh, those who came there, and there’s gogol, so dostoevsky was there, they got there, they got there, they got in, unlike tolstoy, yes, yes, i think maybe he didn’t ask. the most important question, some of these elders, and regarding their creativity, perhaps everything would be different, i’m just saying, swearing is such a terrible thing, yes, i just why i want to come back to you, i was asking about generations or

whether it’s related to creativity, because that’s how it seems to me, god knows, maybe i’m being deceived, but it seems to me that this is my path, for example, it’s quite standard, that is, this at the end of school, it is russian. literature, this is dostoevsky, how for the first time you begin to think there, then just at the end of the eighties they begin to publish russian philosophers whom we did not know, and you begin to read about the gospel, about the church there and the gospel itself, and then in at some point, in my life he was just a person, we were taught, by the way, from the conservatory , he taught us the history of music, and he generally casually, he told us about the music of ancient india or something from may, there latin america topinazli chilitli, this is the whole story of a musical instrument. i still remember the name, and we asked him about something, the word church came up, he was fasting, now i understand that he himself was such an absolute neophyte, he says: well, i think that of course you don’t eat white bread there, but black bread there, and the point was not in what he said, yes, that it was such a neophyte twist, yes, in the fact that he said that, well , what? there’s no point in reading if you don’t go there

, if you don’t live in this house, that ’s how it is, and this path, it seems to me, well, as i say, the path of these university boys. but for you, it was probably different somewhere, is it all the same, or is it similar? sometimes we had to go down to hell in order to push off, so we understand that there is such a bottom, so probably, after all, there is a slightly different path, well, this is a strong phrase, i think that i came to church quite late in general, because my fate turned out so that i... i lived in krasnoyarsk for 15 years , where i was born, and i’ll be honest, i later tried to remember at least one church, i didn’t remember it, purely physically, i just didn’t meet a church on my way, which means either i didn’t see it, that is, my perception is so dulled was, yes, or they

really weren’t there, which is possible, because the city is quite new, plus, so to speak, the consequences of the bolshevik destruction, but nevertheless, here i came after college, after school, after even working as a specialist, as an architect, and for a long time i perceived music only as an amateur activity , as actual entertainment for yourself, alexey nikolavich, your phrase that we had to descend into hell haunts me. this is how you live with these memories now, what do they mean in your life today, are you trying to forget, no, it is impossible to forget this, i think that you need to remember, well... you need to, so to speak , not forget, this is all for a reason,

it is all part of the path, and the thief had to be crucified next to christ in order to understand who is next to him hanging on the cross to shout to him: change me, lord, into your kingdom, when you come to the kingdom, this is also a terrible path, he killed people, he certainly did. visited water, before that, now, that time, the first one entered heaven, today we gathered our thoughts about russian rock, as a cultural phenomenon, vyacheslav butusov, alexey belov, me vladimir ligoi, we continue, i want to return a little bit to the search for generations, because among people, yes, that means in different spheres of culture, at the same time, when we were looking, we were all looking, yes, there were these searches in the movies , now we have a film coming out... about balabanov, it was slava’s anniversary

, everyone gathered at my house, they gave interviews, quietly , hello, hello, but here they are celebrating, no, no, slava, what are you doing, i said the very top left, oh, excuse me, you have, a person, that means experience, yes, interaction with him, right? how how do you do this do you remember now? firstly, alexey and i knew each other for a long time, starting from college times, then he moved to st. petersburg, then i ended up there, yes, she read the world like a novel, and he turned out to be, i once gathered a crowd in a cafe, a huge cafe, extras, only because the glory of the butus will play the song there. and this was a feature film, it turned out so free, everything is absolutely, a walk in the park without a dog, it can

become too expensive for you, your mother teaches you by heart, the morgue phone number when she is not there, at home for too long, all this time, so to speak, we we are watching... each other in the sense that he was building a cinematic career, and all this was happening before my eyes, he naturally, so to speak, observed what was happening here, at a certain stage already i, mm, had thoughts, well, somehow that we need to help each other, so to speak , just on this path, yes, on the path to god, i may be... not very good, so to speak , in this sense, an assistant in terms of eloquence, to pronounce the necessary words,

yes, but one way or another, in general, i’m with alexey i tried to talk about this topic, but sometimes he had a categorical attitude for a long time, because he was very passionate about cinema, for him it was a whole world in which he lived, master of nothing, everything else had, so to speak, applied significance to this, as it seemed to me. but as you can see, at the end, so to speak, of his path, relatively speaking, both professionally and humanly, he finally came to this topic, i tried for a very long time to persuade him to film some kind of fairy tale or something like that, well, relatively speaking, yes i even had options were written for various stories for synopses, and every time he... told me that i’m not ready yet, i’m not mentally ready for this, i want to, but i’m not ready, well, as a result, here’s the last film, that

’s actually there is such a parable, by and large, all this is already happening there in this abandoned bell tower, and the film itself, the title of the film and the essence of this story, what i also want, everyone wants, in the end, and me, who? the cross almost fell, a heavy wooden one, a huge cross, so i’m waiting for someone to support me, because i could fall, and a crowd of people was following me, and in general i somehow passed , precisely because of that, i could have fallen and that’s all, but because of the people who followed me, here’s a strange story, yes, i know, how it connects with me, you said correctly , how this... connects with what we are talking about, that ’s why for me russian rock is a continuation of russian literature, and inherits russian literature, because russian literature,

this is what gives us the space of meaning and language, yes, we speak with these images, we remember these heroes, and the same thing russian rock, yes, here are your songs, they enter our lives, it’s interesting that soviet cinema is the cinematograph of our language, yes , that’s post-soviet, as far as i am concerned, maybe many will not agree with me, but by and large, these are films brother , brother-2, these are the ones that have entered the language, it seems to me that this also comes together here, but these searches are some kind of internal and well, the result is, yes, when something made by a person, it becomes part of the language. of course, yes, but i also wanted to add that, in addition to literature, it is symphonic music that is of great importance, i have been actively interested in this in recent years, i can say that in academic music, in symphonic music, there is a lot of pressure

that sweeps away even more smelling than... for its time it was cool rock just and time ahead - this is just a concrete example of the fact that this is a bulldozer that you can’t fight against, just look, we said about the bright future of russian rock, we said about symphonic music, but young people, let’s be honest, don’t listens, not all of them, young people are different, and any generalization is unfair to someone, well, today they don’t listen to rock the way they did, once upon a time, yes, some time ago, so maybe i’ll sharpen it, yes, well intentionally, but i don’t see in modern russian music, continuity with the great russian literature, with the great russian culture with russian rock, i don’t see it there, i’m wrong, at one time such a terrible word of music appeared, it appeared in the nineties the word format , then

everything started to be divided, because before that somehow it was. all together, if you take there, let’s say, the seventies, there was rock pop music and some kind of disc, it was all together, and then it began to be divided into formats, and then trends appeared, but rap is not just so it appeared, you don’t need to know anything in particular, you don’t need to study music especially there, making yourself these beats, so to speak, there and then say what comes to mind, this is what it is and this is also supported by the industry, this. on its own it would not have lasted long, this is also a stage that suggests that everything should begin, so to speak, to develop in a new circle, and this will not go anywhere , and over time, it will be those seeds that are the most tenacious that will sprout, that is, into the more interesting ones, which have some meaning behind

them, but still one way or another otherwise music, but at the core. as a manifestation of culture, literature, but this is a connection, this, this symbiosis, and people will always return to them, because this is actually folk art, you are amazingly diplomatic today, there is in russian, modern i don’t know, rap, what is it called, there is a connection with great russian literature, do you see it, or do you just hope that there are more opportunities for literary expression there than in rock, because there you need to broadcast something all the time, and what? there are many, there are many possibilities, yes, yes, yes, another thing is how it is used, it is used little , unfortunately, you and i today, of course, we had so much theological and cultural and musical, i’m not afraid of the word dimension, but i you know, in conclusion, what i would like to ask you about,

since we talked a lot today about russian literature, if you had to advise our foreign contemporaries to get acquainted with russian literature, well, through some work or work , i won’t say there, name three there, but that ’s the first thing that comes to mind, that falls on the heart, what would you advise first turn, i am always easily ready to name pushkin , he has both poetry and prose, yes, this is... one circumstance, the second circumstance is that he reached such heights in poetry, and which are already called fairy tales, and in poetry, but here in fact, in general, pushkin is our everything, yes, yes, alexey nikolavich, what would you advise, well, i would probably slash at dostoevsky, of course, but not everyone can

handle that, yes, this is the man who discovered , said that... he writes about terrible things from a position of light, not everyone can probably understand this, but nevertheless, i said in some interviews that i just had such friends who, they are such cult musicians . there and still there they are cult musicians in the west, here we are now we've been to such very interesting gatherings, where you come to such a house , and people walk around in clothes from the 16th century, so the hostess starts playing the piano, everyone came just for this purpose, they start playing neoclassical music, how interesting it is, and then they start talking , because it turns out that one of the people is the leading screenwriter, goriovsky. i didn’t even know how he wrote so many films, so we just talked about literature and when i said the word dostoevsky, and he

suddenly changed in his face, he changed and so someone just became completely different, bowed like that, suddenly, i think , he’s bowing to me, i bowed like that, said, oh, dostoevsky, yes, and, of course, there are people who understand this, yes, they understand, early or late, after all, i was listening to you just now, i remembered, i recently watched some series , an american detective series, and there are two detectives sitting in a car, one opens the glove compartment, the other takes it out, there is an idiot of dostoevsky, he says, it’s a good book, he the doctor says, and dostoevsky, he says, well, the book is good, this is the second time even he doesn’t care he says, he just looks, he says, well, what should i explain to you, thank you, dear friends, i am eternally grateful to you, today we had cult musicians, alexey bilov, vyacheslav butusov, i’m vladimir legoyda, we were gathering our thoughts about russian.

lesson, as a cultural phenomenon , thank you, hello, here is dmitry bak, the host of a literary podcast, which is called very important words, let them not speak, let them read, our guest today is a theater actor. cinema and writer veniamin borisovich smekhov. hello, benjamin. hello, let's start, if you don't mind from the very beginning, this is how it all started for you, what was in the foreground or what was in the beginning, and what then? so, i was born in moscow, a year before the start of the terrible war, my dad went to the front, already being a candidate of economic sciences, he was already in charge of some sector in the main house of the soviet union, which was called gasplan of the ussr, my father is a scientist, and when without him they celebrated his

centenary, it was at the current plekhanov academy, where dad taught for many years and they opened an auditorium for professor laughter. now, when i appear in plekhanovka, my middle grandson studied there, i visited him , and we approached this classroom, several teachers immediately said that there was a rumor among students that if you take the smekhova test in this classroom, then this promises you good luck, well this is a good reputation, it’s wonderful, but my father still went to the front in 1945, my family began, what my beloved

mother was like, naturally, i had nothing else in the world next to me, and i don’t have anything more sublime and beautiful and beloved, we left for evacuation, to the red key, between... chistopol and elabuga, understandable places, yes, from the second year, my mother was already forced to become a doctor, as she had been successful all her life, a therapist, my mother, and my father appeared in a summer kindergarten with mother, in military uniform, even then he didn’t change into civilian clothes, but of course i didn’t recognize him. because throughout the 5 years of the war, my mother and i received letters where dad drew me, that is, he imagined what you were like, yes, yes, these are very touching, downright sentimental

letters, they have been preserved, they have been preserved, preserved, how cool it is, my little sister, galochka, she made a whole book out of it, yeah, so, in a word, dad showed up, and dad brought a bunch of gifts. from germany, these were toys, and dad brought poems from the front, and so until his death, until he was 97 years old, he... knew many poems from pushkin to pleshcheev, copied by hand or in books, or is it important how poems, no, by rote, what poems he loved, did you remember, well , at least something there, maikovsky, pushkin, lermontov, bryusov, kozma prutkov, well, here you go enough, well, bryusov is not so banal, yes, this is still such an original thing, for the new time, yes, but for example, of

course, of course, well, there is bryusov’s house in moscow and it is part of our museum, of course, this there is no doubt, as it seems to you, that’s when you start reading poetry around, well, not on the stage, but somewhere at home, at the table, when people find out that you remember, i also remember, a lot of poetry, although god forbid, as not an actor, people perceive it with surprise, or as something else, dima, when was the theater born? taganka, and i was born with i ran out of doubts about whether i was an actor, or whether i would go into literature, it was taganka and it was a poetic genre that we discovered with our beloved, but maybe before moving on to that toganka, well, let’s just tell you about this time again, in recent years very close attention has been focused on this decade or fifteen years, right?

between 1956 and 1968, approximately, how it looked from the inside, we know a set of, well , also such stamps, not stamps, but such popular opinions, yes, the spirit of freedom, as it was seen, felt, the wind of hope, fresh with eternal clothes, yes, yes, i was already an independent adult guy, i had already canceled my dreams of teaching russian language and literature, and followed the lead from the inner voice, or how else to put it, the inner demon, the existence of which you know as a wonderful teacher at the theater institute, we all followed the lead of some devil, well, socrates was executed for this, because

he spoke to some... .remember, with some kind of demon, that is, not only us, but for quite a long time already, well, this is a good devil , positive, and the main thing in our profession is, of course, who was, for example, my older friend, an amazing actor, oleg pavlovich tabakov, a clown , clown with a capital c, clownery tormented me, pulled me, besso... as mozart says, yes, well, here it’s more of a non-clownade, maybe irony, yes, probably so, not quite, after all, it’s just acting, this is the one, the one who knows how to pretend, uh-huh, this is a word with a double meaning, of course, with the negative, to pose, to act, to act with one’s face, yes, that

is, to be not oneself, a pretense. imitate life or reincarnate, but we’ll go aside, it’s time for the otaganki, the elders, so i entered the then best theater institute, the chukin school, to the young master, vladimir etush, and then i can already remind those viewers who at the same time , the concept is too smart, i think, well, it’s impossible, an actor shouldn’t be, i’m convinced that this is so, the actor sometimes outweighs his head,

yes, that is, it should be all leather. we are going into technology again, dim, so, yes, indeed, being a stupid person and an actor, well, is not the most interesting combination for me, but the actor is smart, well, my favorite actors are smaktunovsky, stegneev, oleg borisov, yuri nikulin, the most beautiful, of course, these are super actors, because... that there are wonderful actors, and there are beyond , there was some case when marlon brondo in london asked laurence olivier, these are the two giants, well... young brondo, who went through the stanislavsky school in new york, on the question is, how do you do all this, he answered serre laurence olivier, a genius of all

times, i am a representative of the school of experience of konstantin stanislavsky, that’s what laurence olivier answered, and what swear words sound like. i don’t really know, well, it’s roughly understandable, it doesn’t matter, well, yes, but when brondo asked him, how do you manage to do everything, he said: you have to be good at pretending, that’s all, look, because the popular opinion, cliche, is not mine , about the fact that taganka is not very stanislavsky, even, perhaps, quite the opposite, yes or whatever, it’s still that i was for the theater then , well, just a little, but it’s still important to reveal this if laughter says it, there is a contrast between the theater of experience and the theater of presentation, this is the theater

of experience, this is stanislavsky’s theater, the actor must penetrate into the image. i have to shelter myself, to feel like this person, there inside, to grow in myself, what is there, yeah, and the performance theater turned out to be stronger in new times, yeah, and if only because one way or another, but in its best manifestations, this is a combination of experience and representations, therefore mayakovsky, therefore external, yes, to go from internal to external, this is stanislavsky, to go from external to internal, this is vakhtangov, stanislavsky’s favorite student, this is how they branched off from him from the brilliant stanislavsky, vakhtangov

towards fantastic realism, we will quote , dostoevsky, yes, and merholt, in some direction of the theater of constructivism, yeah, theater, uh, avant-garde, maybe, yes, the place is probably, yeah, well, generally an amazing time, again we won’t go away, but we’ll indicate that it’s not man, then the theater, there is haideburg, tairov, vakhtangov, stanislavsky, mirkhold, well , it’s all very close, and komissarzhevsk, this is not too long ago, compared to how well you know the history of the theater, but what are you talking about i'm a spectator. studios, no more, but it didn’t continue anything, literally, the judgment was an amazing time, it was taganka, after all , an amateur, but she synthesized it all, so twisted it, so tied it up that it was a hit, as my students say, they say,

it hit me, it hit millions of people, respecting the mode of the podcast, i’ll shorten it and answer, i didn’t succeed at the very beginning, i ... with honors, at first for the second year i was, as they call it, a non-auditioner, a volunteer listener, but in the middle of the second year etuzh demanded that i returned and i and sasha zbruev, my classmate, who was also deprived of certificates after the first year, were also too smart, but, probably not, something else, everyone, well, actually everyone was too... and you and i, the shchukin school is ending, and i choose, not only according to my taste, but according to the taste of that new russian literature, prose,