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be there tonight, my lord she blows, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, hello, this is the podcast schrödinger's cat, and i am its host grigory tarasevich, editor-in-chief of the popular science magazine schrödinger's cat. and we simply talk about complex scientific things, on the other hand, we talk scientifically. about very simple things, and today we will talk about a seemingly simple thing like plastic, it is everywhere in furniture, in bags, in packaging, everywhere, but is it safe, is it good, or vice versa? is it scary, we have two guest, one guest is the artist, yulia che, hello, hello, another guest

is the crane academy, alexey romovich khakhlov. head of the department at moscow state university, a scientist who studies, among other things, polymers and knows well about plastic from the inside at the molecular level. hello, hello, and my first question is a little philosophical, is plastic good or bad, here is alexey ramovich, plastic, of course, is good, the polymer industry began to develop about 100 years ago, over these 100 years, surrounding us... objects, they have changed to unrecognizability, if before it was all mostly wood, some kind of metals and so on, now almost most of the objects that surround us are made of polymer, plastic or rubber, well, in general these are also polymer products, and of course, modern life cannot be imagined without plastic products, so this is good, but there is a threat from plastic

, there is a threat, because it is a threat due to the fact that over these 100 years the polymer industry has developed so quickly that waste also arises matching, plastic, ordinary polyethylene, polypropylene, these are ordinary plastics, they decompose very slowly, so really garbage ones arise , even islands in the ocean, which many are talking about, and this is a really big problem, because pollution occurs, including pollution of the aquatic environment, and of course , this is a problem in this sense, and it needs to be dealt with, before i ask yulia a question, i want to draw your attention to these art objects that you probably see on the screen now, they were created by yulia, they are created from plastic, which we are unfortunately used to throw it away, yulia, you you create your works from plastic, how

you feel about plastic, it doesn’t seem to you. no, of course, i adore plastic, it’s my favorite material, i adore it, it ’s within my control, and for the last 6 years... i’ve been the one who has been prioritizing working with plastic, in fact, since 2013, i’ve been closely involved in design based on the principle of upcycling , this is reuse from old things, originally it was old jewelry, and old clothes, even dishes that were already out of order, i created clothes... art objects from these things, and one day, accordingly, a friend of mine, a photographer who is not indifferent to the problem of ecology, asked me, julia, would you like to make clothes and

hats from plastic, from used materials, from garbage, from garbage, yes , somehow this word is garbage, it’s a little scary for me, so i prefer boplastic. she says: and we can subsequently organize a filming on the topic of ecology, so that the viewer will pay attention to the problem of sorting plastic waste, so i thought and decided, why not? no, and since then, of course, i’ve made clothes and accessories, we’ve done more than one shoot, and in the process i realized that this is such an interesting material that it’s... subject to, i just now get great pleasure, for me even my friends are already interested, friends, girlfriends, some acquaintances are already collecting plastic, as

they accumulate they pass it on to me, i have a question now for both of you , look, while i was walking, i found several plastic bags in my pocket, yeah, so classic, probably polyethylene yes, bags, well, i’ll put something in them, maybe i’ll buy something, put it in it or use it for garbage, and what will be their fate next, here’s alexey ramovich, what will happen to him with this bag, most likely this bag will eventually end up in a landfill, what the landfill needs to do with it, nothing, it needs to be buried in the ground, so to speak, and it will gradually decompose, in principle, despite the fact that the decomposition time is very long, but no less it is, it is of course, well, it will gradually become crushed, become uh, here

the particles of polyethylene from which this bag is made are becoming smaller and smaller , some of these particles will be washed out into rivers and then into the ocean by underground waters, this is true, but how many years will it take, it... hundreds of years, hundreds of years, that is we have not yet realized, that is, since the polymer industry began to develop 100 years ago, we have not yet realized the full scale of the problems, so to speak, that is , in 500 years this bag will end up in the pacific ocean, well , piece by piece, yes, yes, bits of it bags, some will end up, well, in a quiet ocean, well, in some ocean, well, gradually they will creep across all the oceans, still be recycled somehow? it can be recycled in order to be reused, well, polyethylene does not lend itself very well to such recycling , but there, say, polyethylene terephtholate, from which

plastic bottles are made, as they call it, it is quite recyclable, well, it can be recycled up to ten times, that is why even in moscow there are special containers where these bottles... can be placed here polylento rephtholate can be recycled. and there is no problem here if i am carrying a bottle or i need to tear off the label, wash it off the glue, well, it is advisable, so to speak, to remove the cap, because the cap is made of polyethylene, and that is, these are different substances, yes, that is, that is why the bottles are collected separately, leather separately, but this is done there, even if you just throw it away , it will already be done at a factory where they produce recycled polyethylene, and this is a price... raw material, because polytile can be recycled many times, in general, in principle, a polymer is this is a valuable energy raw material, among other things, so there are waste incineration plants that produce

electricity as a result of burning plastic waste, and now there are catalysts that, well , practically lead to the fact that the environment is not polluted, that is, realistically , look, the situation is like this: the life cycle of any polymer material is such that it will ultimately end up either in a landfill, or it will end up in a waste incineration plant, or, unfortunately, as is the case in many countries is done, just a truck, will unload all the garbage into the ocean, instead of bringing it into the landfill, it is because of this that such huge garbage islands arise in the ocean, all this recycling, waste sorting, it can only delay it a little , and even then, so to speak, in limited quantities.

the moment when the polymer ends up either in a landfill, or in an incineration plant, or in the ocean , that is, if i throw it into a fire, it won’t be very good, because there’s a lot of harmful emissions, even from a small bag, of course, of course, this must be done at a special waste incineration plant , where there are special catalysts, and now waste plants in russia allow you to burn this package, how to get energy and not pollute the air, yes of course, well, we bought it. uh, quite a lot of garbage plants, in europe, in fact, there are places next to garbage plants, housing, it is more expensive, because electricity is cheaper, it is supplied by burning garbage, this energy is supplied to the surrounding houses, then until recently, let’s say, scandinavian countries are simply they bought plastic waste from russia, even there , yes, so in principle, well, we built waste incineration plants that

work quite well and don’t throw anything into the air, well, they do, but a minimal amount, well, minimal - that’s how dangerous it is, not dangerous , no, well, i’m telling you, here in the center of vienna there is a waste incineration plant, well , no one is protesting, yulia, now i have a question for you, look, an ordinary white bag, i’ll rustle a little so that the audience, the listeners can feel here is the familiar sound, here it is for you how does something inspire an artist? of course, it’s inspiring, i can’t say right away that i see a package in your hands, i know what i ’ll make from it, no, my principle is completely different, i have several containers at home where i sort, for example, one container means bottles, the second container means bags, the third container means toys, and when i have a moment, let’s say inspiration, i want

to make something from what i have accumulated, i lay out these things, and before i’m already looking at the bag, what it will go beautifully with, some kind of a yellow bottle there, a blue one , a black one there, a gold one there, then i don’t even know what i’ll have, in the process of this, like collaging. i already have some kind of silhouette, some kind of object, in fact, i need all this and it comes in handy, the package itself is not a symbol, rather in some context, right? yes, it’s more like that, you’re watching the schrödinger’s cat podcast, and today we’re talking about plastic, everything seems fine, you can get energy, which is always in short supply, you can. you can create

such beautiful art objects, why do people so concerned about plastic, i read somewhere that they are even going to ban plastic bags, even plastic toys have already been banned somewhere, in general the fight is worse than they are starting with global warming, there really are problems, uh, well, as for the burning of garbage - this so to speak, but a small fraction, after all , the bulk of the garbage ends its life in a landfill. why not a small share, if it is not so harmful and beneficial, why not chew, it is still expensive, the catalysts are expensive, so to speak, and the factories themselves are expensive, few countries can afford it, so to speak, well-equipped landfills, well, everyone can afford it, but nevertheless , most of the countries, mainly in southeast asia, they just dump polymer waste into

the ocean, everything, and don’t care, that’s of course , cheaper than making a landfill, then you need to reclaim this landfill, which means that a fertile layer appears on top of the already frozen landfill, so that grass, trees grow there, and so on, this, so to speak, requires costs, that’s why the problem with large garbage, it really is, is important and it really needs to be solved, but it needs to be solved not by banning it there, but by the fact that we need to deal with plastic correctly after its service life has ended, that’s what sometimes now, let’s say, the european commission has recently adopted, they started, they started with ear sticks, here are ear sticks, for some reason the main danger was, now in europe you can’t buy an ear stick, an island that is made of plastic, it is now made of thick cardboard, i

can tell you what it is much less convenient it breaks, naturally, and the benefit from this is very small, but now it’s not ... recently the european commission adopted a new package, which means they banned the so-called intentionally added plastic, for some reason intentionally added plastic is, from their point of view, mainly added to cosmetics there for women, glitter, for example, all glitter is now prohibited, plastic glitter, so they say that now in europe there was a very big boo. because they were banned just a week ago, so before that to say, all the glitter was swept away, so to speak, literally from the shelves, well, you know, that means, and at the same time, i already forgot how much, but they want to start

saving in about 12 years, there are 40,000 tons per year, i think, whereas - well, it’s easy to calculate that, say, simply due to the wear of car tires , the annual... so to speak, formation of these microparticles of plastic is 6 million tons per year, but of course, no one can touch the automotive industry, so here decided to get even on cosmetics and children’s toys, and that’s how it is in general basically, i thought that as far as plastic is concerned, this is really a very important problem, it needs to be solved... mainly due to the fact that these uncontrolled discharges into the ocean should somehow be prohibited, and as for microplastics , now this is a horror story that is popping up everywhere, microplastics , what a horror, i can tell you for sure that the harm from microplastics has not been proven at all, it is a polymer, it is

quite inert, and most importantly, people say that here we are evolutionarily not adapted to this, because it began to develop only 100 years ago, let’s say, we lived with sand for millions of years and so on, but at the same time they forget that there is no such pure plastic as such, when it gets somewhere into the aquatic environment, various surfactants stick to it , when this plastic enters the body, the body develops an immune response not to the core of this particle, to these surfactants to which it is already accustomed, so most likely all this, so to speak, will pass through the digestive system and will isolated, and there are only isolated cases when , say, these particles passed through the emissions of some chemical, say

, plant with harmful substances, these substances were adsorbed onto plastics and then released in a cooperative manner, say, in the stomach of a fish, this is dangerous, but this needs to be investigated, and it is necessary to say indiscriminately that microplastics are harmful, that in no case should you take coffee to go, because, so to speak, a huge amount of microplastics from the cup will get into it, so to speak, and so on, this will cause irreparable harm to your health, in general, i can authoritatively say that this is all nonsense - these are all horror stories that do not yet have a scientific basis. that is, if i put bread or an apple in this bag, this bag will not emit anything harmful, of course it will not emit anything harmful, the other thing is that this is where waste sorting is good, i’ve been to germany, so to speak, many times in germany, so

to speak, there, uh, i saw all this in my own experience, so we need to separate food, we call it biomun, from , so to speak, this type of garbage... why, because food, it decomposes much faster, it’s not hundreds of years, but then, well , in a few months everything will already decompose, so it should go into the composter, so to speak, and decompose very quickly, so to speak, that’s it separation, plasticity from food, it is justified, and of course it needs to be done, no, well, i mean , is it possible to eat bread after it has been sitting, and bread can be eaten, but if i eat a small piece of the bag, it will not matter , you can eat. question, are you afraid of plastic, well , many people advise, never store water in plastic bottles, because plastic stands out further on the list. substances that are deadly, don’t put fruit in plastic bags, because ethylene is released, the fruit

begins to rot immediately, so aren’t you afraid of plastic? no, gregory, i’m not afraid of plastic, the only thing is that i would n’t heat something in a bag in the microwave, by the way, when heated, what happens, well, microwaves, for example, no, well, you just don’t need to put it in a plastic bag, because it may melt, but what if? special dishes for the microwave, you can calmly go there warm up, yulia, how do you feel about clothes made of polymers , yes, i see you’re probably wearing synthetic shoes, something plastic on your head, yes, and you’re not afraid, no, i’m not afraid, i love plastic, i just adore it , many other materials, including building materials, they are much more harmful than plastic, what about plastic?

consists of long polymer chains, they are not volatile, and ethylene will not fly out of a plastic bag julia, after all, i know that you have a whole manifesto about plastic as an object of art, if i’m not mistaken, my manifesto is simple, it goes like this: there is no need to make garbage out of garbage, but at the same time there are people like that. exactly like me, which are made from plastic, there shouldn’t be much, why? well, imagine, let’s say, i have 10 more of the same, there are 20, in one city, in another, they create such large installations and then exhibit them in the same art park, for example, the same as the museum, and in each city there is a park and not just one, and imagine, in one park there are 10 sculptures, 20, rubbish, in another park there are the same ones, even more, more, more,

already from the outside, every city will seem like some kind of dump, because even i, as an artist, when i participate in exhibitions, festivals, do performances, and the viewer is divided into two opinions, those that, wow, this is so beautiful, this is so impressive, and those , who say: well, garbage is still garbage, why don’t we need it, we don’t like it, on the one hand, no matter how we don’t need to make garbage out of garbage, but my manifesto is that i want, of course from a positive, creative side, to show the viewer that there is a problem, it needs to be solved, of course, i am for zero waste, this is a brilliant invention of mankind, the main thing is to learn how to properly dispose of it and

recycle it correctly, then we will all be happy. and i have a question for alexey erimovich, they often write biodegradable on bags, this means that if i suddenly throw it into the forest there or a bag from a store, then in a month it will dissolve, or is this a bit of a deception, no, no, that - a bit of a deception, usually when they talk about biodegradable bags, there are, of course, completely, so to speak, ones like these natural polymers, but usually we are talking about the same plastic bags into which starch is added, that is, a biodegradable additive, since starch quickly decomposes, then quickly, the plastic bag is crushed to the state of microplastic, say, according to the international classification, microplastic is considered any object smaller than 5 mm in size, well, i think that so to speak, you won’t be

very happy if your forest is littered with, well, some small particles of plastic 5 mm in size, so it’s all the same pollutes the environment, uh, but another thing is that sooner or later this polyethylene will also decompose, well... it’s still better to take it all to a landfill, everything is equipped there, everything has the modes necessary to do it in a controlled manner, so to say, all this was slowly decomposing, without causing damage to the environment. you are watching the podcast schrödinger's cat, and today we are talking about plastic, how dangerous it is, how beautiful it is, here in my hands... i will rustle with them a plastic bag, which is also

huge achievements of science and a certain threat to nature. for the environment, is it still possible to create a plastic that will simply turn into some elementary components in a foreseeable period, in a year , in a month, yes, of course, they have been created, here are polylactides, for example, please, so to speak, they decompose very quickly, but they are more expensive, no economy can stand it, but of those polymers that you mentioned , what are they already making from them, no, well, they make bags, lactides, but they, as they say, are not the same durable, but for example, in the project that we recently completed, this property , the fact that polylactide quickly decomposes, was used in order to - it means that there is copolycondensation of polylactide and, uh, that means, a monomer that contains boric

acid, and if after this this bag is placed in the field as a fertilizer, then since boric acid is a very good fertilizer for a number of plants, then a prolonged action is obtained, a prolonged release of this fertilizer and, so to speak, for agriculture farms have obtained quite good results, that is, many things can simply be used to ensure that this is what you say, slow decomposition, of course, if it’s hundreds of years old, it’s not suitable, but if it’s been there for a year. then this can be used for, so to speak, prolongation, action, release of certain useful substances. well, it seems to me that it’s the dream of any summer resident, these polylactides of yours, garbage - you collected the polymer, poured it into the garden, and harvested it, i’m afraid that the summer resident will not be happy with the price of the package that he will receive how much such a bag would cost, well, this is orders of magnitude, this is orders of magnitude

, that is, this is 100 rubles, there is approximately, well, well, not 100 rubles, but 10, yes, well, 10 rubles is already a bag, you have as they say, a package of 100 bags costs - well, how much does it cost, in my opinion 40 rubles , this type, one is 40 kopecks, yulia, and you would buy such a bag for 10 rubles if you knew that it does not cause damage nature , well, probably not, of course not, these same ones because i need a lot of bags of them, yeah, while i have you... buy cheaper or more expensive, i will of course buy it cheaper, that is, we need to keep these polymers cheaper, or it’s impossible to make it cheaper, don’t, you need to properly dispose of the polymers after the end of their service life, nothing will happen if you, so to speak, carefully collect all the packages and take them a landfill,

i gave an example in germany, there is a huge amount of packaging there. there, any wick is small, it’s the kind you buy in the supermarket, it’s wrapped, so to speak, in a polymer package, well, it’s usually polyethylene, which means it’s been there for quite some time there is such a system that that’s all, if there is a certain symbol on this package , then this garbage, it is not thrown into an ordinary garbage container, but the so-called gelbizak, such a yellow, well, large package, which, well, is delivered centrally to each household, and once every two weeks, everyone takes out these hefty gelbizaks, in which , so to speak, well, basically, plastic packaging is piled up on a hill in front of the house, a car comes and takes it away, takes it to the landfill, so to speak, well,

at least, or to a waste incinerator factory, but these... companies that produce goods that have plastic packaging, well, polymer packaging, they are responsible for proper disposal, this is their business, so to speak, they pay the relevant waste disposal companies to do everything correctly, that's all , this also needs to be done, that is, a huge amount, i see here, even in this artillery, just typical items that would go to gelbezak, it’s just necessary that the companies, so to speak, take care of the garbage that they produce their products and we would negotiate correctly with the relevant waste companies to dispose of them correctly, that’s all. and in moscow, for example, you manage to recycle correctly, in moscow

there is no such system, in moscow there are containers where everything is put. and as a rule there is no sorting there, even i noticed that when there is sorting, they say, this is secondary raw materials, and this is general garbage, well, somehow no one? i’m trying to put them in the appropriate bins, where the secondary regins are, again everything is saddled up there, glass bottles, and some other things - plastic waste and something else, well, in russia there are still some sorting methods, there are, there are, but in fact they do this, so to speak, and then further, but this is not passed on to those who throw out the garbage, and this is already done by those who recycle. of course, they sort the garbage, how to motivate people to sort the garbage, you still need one bag for bottles, one for paper, one for food waste, one mixed somewhere,

probably, and you know, people get used to it very quickly, very quickly , so to speak, here if you do it, if you do something like this, then everyone does it, if you don’t do it, it ’s somehow, well, you become some kind of inferior member of society, one or two weeks, you get used to it, there ’s nothing complicated about it . yul, do you sort the garbage? i use almost all my garbage for work, but i want to note that i still live in the city of voronezh , so we installed a tank for plastic bottles next to the regular bins, and of course it filled up within a day, there wasn’t even any room anymore, but then they took him away, as if people had first got used to it, started there. i also put together what is not needed, so when it was removed , such discomfort already arose that ah, what to do, where to carry it, so i try to make the most of it

in my creativity, well, probably, friends, instead , in order to carry plastic for recycling, yes, alexey ramovich, and you mentioned the harm from cars, you mean tires that wear out, yes, well, of course, tires wear out, so to speak, we all know, so to speak, uh, that ... they cannot be used indefinitely, this is all left to on the asphalt, it started to rain, it was all washed away and yes, and so on and so on, another thing is that i wouldn’t say what that means, i already said that, that’s 6 million tons per year in the world, it comes in the form of in the form of microplastic, well, ultimately into the oceans, but you see, i would not demonize this microplastic, but no one has proven that... it is so harmful, for some reason in the context of tires i remembered the story about these same swans, because there was also a problem with recycling old tires, and

people came up with the idea of ​​making a poor thing out of it, maybe be, but a mass art object, carving swans, so you generally consider this an art object, here is a swan at the dacha cut out of this tire, so classic, i think it’s more like a dubious art, but i know this practice, you know what they do, a covering for children’s sites, they are crushing some kind of sports tracks, this is just now banned in the european union, banned yes, yes, although this is well compared to how much tires, so to speak, wear out on the roads, this is nonsense, this is less than 10 %. that is, it is harmful, it turns out, yes for children there are no platforms, just because the european union has banned it does not mean that it is harmful, so to speak, there are officials there who need to work to justify their salaries, that’s all,

we are already coming to an end, and i have the following question for you , what advice would you give to people who are faced with such packages every day, and at the same time want to be creative, want to be environmentally friendly, want to be responsible, that’s what it costs? people should, of course, sort their garbage, but in order for them to do this, it is necessary that the relevant city authorities also such a system would be developed, and so, i would advise reading less newspapers, classic advice, so to speak , there is nothing so harmful in it, but of course, so to speak, if we are talking about plastic waste, then it should be thrown in the trash, so to speak fold it, they will sort it out further, as long as there is no sorting, but under no circumstances should you throw it in the forest there, an ordinary

thing, so to speak, that, well, any cultured people do this anyway, but it won’t come to you head, so to speak, in the forest, throw away the plastic package, but still, it probably came from the nearest trash cans, yulia, but what advice would you give, the same advice, to bring it to the trash can, to take care of nature, to teach children from a young age, it still goes... from childhood, for my part, i would like, you know, to love plastic more, because in fact it is a very social material, how much people suffered to get normal clothes, normal dishes, especially people in poor countries, and thanks to science, thanks to polymers, thanks to chemistry, physicists managed to obtain

a very cheap, very simple means, which, yes, somewhere clogs something, but on the whole it rather helps us to live and live comfortably, yes, there was a podcast from schrödinger with you, and i am its host grigory tarasevich, editor-in-chief of the popular science magazine schrödenger’s cat, and we talked about plastic, how beautiful it is and how dangerous it is, on our guests alexey removich khakhlov, crane academy, head of the moscow state university department, and yulia che, artist. hello, this is a psychics podcast, where i, a journalist, natalya loseveva, a clinical psychologist, candidate of psychological sciences.

they are trying to sort out the most complex puzzles of life situations. our current situation is unusual in that the request came from a spouse. alexander, hello, hello, you came to us with your family problem, your wife, anna, is afraid of all types of transport, afraid of speed, as i understand it, an, this has already begun to cause great discomfort, a great inconvenience, for your life, for fun, please tell me, natalya mikhailovna, please help, in fact she is afraid of speed, she gets hysterical, she's brought to tears, what a speed, 120 km/h, 150, no, she's afraid, sometimes even of the sound of the engine, the car hasn't started moving yet, the sound is just starting to get louder, he's already starting to get hysterical, fortunately the steering wheel is missing, but sometimes it gets there , and what it looks like, all fear, rapid heartbeat, tears,

panic. your hands are shaking, it’s impossible to cope with this, you can’t even be distracted by something, but, as i understand it, from what alexander told us when he asked for help, by the way, this is a great guy, a husband who is so responsibly looking for a way out situations, it’s very cool that it all didn’t start out of the blue , but tell me that there was a situation with accidents, yes, i had situations when i was driving in the fall, it was a slippery road, a slippery country road. we were driving with friends and it so happened that, uh, they were making fun of the girls, they were having fun with the girls, they were trying to scare them, in the end we crashed into a fence, that is , you weren’t driving, it wasn’t me driving, i was sitting in the middle back, and just... moment i only managed to put my hands forward, because i was not fastened, uh-huh, my hands hurt, they took me out of the car, i guess everyone remained alive, yes, everyone remained alive, they were just

very scared, and well, i hurt my finger a little because i was resting on the front seat and they took me out of the car, and i just look at the flashlight and it floats, that is, i was so suddenly in some kind of fear, i either started to lose consciousness, yeah, well, well, stress in general, how much do you need? it was about 18, 17 years old, maybe then something else happened right away, right? then in this same for a month i was going to the shopping center by bus, i had already started to get off, that is, i stood at the handrails and in front of me was a picture, a windshield, the fact that a car sharply turns in front of the bus and the bus urgently brakes on board, how to say, stops, yeah, and i i also left on shaky legs, called my friends who were waiting for me, and said, meet me, help me, i can’t.

i’m scared, well, that is, there were also no casualties , it wasn’t a very terrible accident, it wasn’t, but it impressed you, and what else happened to you with the plane, my mother, as a child, everything to me anya said for a while, airplanes are scary, scary to fly, well, mom, that is, she had aerophobia, yes, but at the same time she had never flown, well, that is , she had it, then she got a job where she started flying on business trips, and the work is related to yes. i’m already like , yes, you’re fine, okay, i overcame this fear of airplanes, i’ve seen enough videos that help with aerophobia, in principle. in principle, everything went fine for two or three trips until one case, when the plane, we went to the runway, began to climb speed, already at high speed, the plane begins to slow down, i was already

hysterical, panicked, my hands were shaking, uh-huh, we arrived at the parking lot, and that he landed the plane in the end, or it didn’t even take off, he emergency braked, didn’t take off, he he didn’t even just brake in the wrong lane, see? you, you alone had a hysterical panic, for the first time, it seems to me, yes, i looked at everyone, everyone was like, yes, everything is fine, we arrived at the parking lot, waited for about an hour, uh, they said that the plane was repaired, we can fly in, i’m already scared, because what happened there, that we braked so urgently, now we’re taking off again, we’re going to take off again. we’re starting to accelerate, it’s time to take off, the speed is even higher, braking again, this time such braking that everyone starts chattering, screaming, hysterics, like in a horror movie, a disaster movie, we were sent to the airport

to wait, and then i i called my husband, i said, i won’t come, i’ll die, because they’ll put us on the same plane, now it’s somehow again they will repair everything and... for now, i called directly, said goodbye to him, to my mother, my mother also reassured me, my husband reassured me, i still couldn’t, they didn’t fly later, but how could i, and that is, it was you not not home, it was you who had to return, yes, i was returning from turkey, just in the end everything ended well, and yes, in the end everything was fine, the third episode is completely clear, i think that i would like to fly, i ’m not an aerophobe at all, absolutely, but i’m in this situation, i... would feel exactly the same as you, of course, i would be worried about what happened twice and what else is being repaired, that is, a normal situation, and now it means you and your husband can’t even go by car, yes, because she can’t go with me by car, that’s very it’s important, and again, tell me this is a rumor, anna can drive, she can

drive, yes, in a car, but every time, well, in my opinion, her hysterics there at some moments create an emergency dangerous situation there, because she distracts me from yours. because anna is sitting next to you, and not in the back seat, yes, yes, that's it that’s why anna distracts you from driving, yes, somehow quickly, the ending, well, why did i say this, it’s important, yes, because anna has some kind of disorder, yes, or a personality deformation, they will say the word disease, associated with panic. tied to certain triggers, and you treat anna like a healthy person who is just fooling around, well, i understand that, i came to you to understand how i should behave in these situations as a person, well, let me ask you this

he has a question about how to behave with a person who has the flu the temperature is 38, he lies there all coughing, and you say to him: “hey, buddy , let’s go skiing, let’s go swimming in the ice hole with you, so you say, to a person who has the flu, no, no, in different ways, like - in the moment of fear of overcoming it there, i explained what i was doing now, what the situation was going on there on the road now, alexander, wait, mikhail gave you a very clear example, yes, let’s continue his example, a man is lying with a temperature of 38 with the flu, what does this person need, and what does this person want, you need to explain that nothing bad is happening, you, you have a fever, well, that’s really it, no, you need to open the article, then on some kind of physiology and see what temperature is, why the body reacts this way, then it takes an hour to give a lecture , that means what’s happening with the flu, you can also say different strains of the flu, now get up, i’ve explained everything to you, get up, let’s go, come on, come on, come on, let’s go skiing, i’m waiting for skiing, good, one of the options that i tried it, i