[000:00:00;00] so i just wanted to be some kind of ideal and yes, not only for myself, probably, but also in order to prove this to the world around me, in the end i get into a relationship, saying that no, i don’t need a relationship at all, but again i feel something, when i get into a relationship, that a person is weaker than me and it’s kind of easier for me, my relationships weren’t long-term, yes, that is, one relationship was replaced... by another and here’s another relationship, then already subsequent, let's say, i entered into a relationship with a man older than me, and gradually, gradually, i begin again to feel this condition , that i am gone again, literally 2 months after the relationship, that is, i am again trying to adjust, i want to be perfect, i cook lunches, dinners, breakfasts, and so on and

so on ... realizing that for me, in principle, a person does nothing to somehow admire a man. i came out of this relationship very depressed, that is , i already had such a critical moment that i realized that the relationship was, in principle, not my story, that is, maybe it’s better not at all, probably, having said these words, i got pregnant just a few months later in the same relationship, these relationships were several? months, well, if we are talking about just the last one, yes, my relationship, it lasted 9 months, before that 2 months, you lived together, we lived together for six months afterwards, yes, all these relationships are like that or otherwise you describe it as abusive, i think yes, let’s try for our viewers, and for me, first, how to agree, what is abusive relationships, that’s how it is, well, i understand

that it’s very fashionable now. it’s clear that we read a lot, and you read, uh, here you are in abusive relationships, as you describe , relationships in which, yes, in relationships in which the line of your personal boundaries is erased, and the line of who you are is erased, this very often happens the situation that you are wrong, no, look, it’s actually not like that , it seemed to you, no, i’m right, you’re wrong, like this, where your worldview is questioned, right? yeah, and your vision of life there, of realities, is constantly criticized and i doubt it, right? yes, yeah, why do you agree to this? at what point does this happen? at the moment of falling in love, when it seems to you that the person completely matches, uh, the image, okay, so you tried for some time, you spent on becoming ideal, you became ideal, or did you

get closer to the ideal image of yourself? good question, i think that i have become better for a person, but not for myself, yeah, but if it’s for yourself, len, how would you feel if you received some kind of i don’t know, there’s a diploma , certificate, certificate of that that’s all, you are perfect, how would you feel, it’s lousy, probably why, because this is the word ideality. somehow it really hurts - hearing, yes, that is, there are no ideal people, i, in principle , understand this with my head, and try to please, but again, i understand this with my head when i leave this relationship, what then happens, that striving for this certain ideal that you describe, it’s more like you ’re trying to please, yes, well, these are different things, then uh-huh, uh-huh, but trying to please, this means that your, as it were,

did they say? smarter colleagues have a completely external locus of control and you evaluate yourself by how others evaluate you, but how long have you had this desire to please others? well, basically it was from childhood and it seems to me that it was to attract the attention of my father, please tell us about your parental family, are you one daughter? no, there are two of us, yeah, you're older or younger, and i'm younger, yeah. and there is tasha’s brother, i remember very well, this moment when, let’s say, i started in kindergarten such an active life, i did additional gymnastics there, my mother took me to gymnastics, then dancing for 12 years and so on, i had one dream, connected with the fact that i really wanted my father to attend this event at least once,

well, at least on one. what did it mean for the girl lena that dad came to see? well, probably delight, yes, that my daughter is on stage, some kind of pride. it seems to me that this was really lacking then, yeah, basically like it is now, but what was i proud of? your father, what did he admire, so you looked, this is a person who lives essentially a parallel life with you, but you know what he loves, what he does, by the way, again a good question on the topic of what he loves, i didn’t know that he loves, you deliberately praise me all the time, you, well , this is the second time you praised me for asking a question. well, really, because it’s a good question, or because i’m a man, no, it’s just a good question, but as you understand, it’s a good question or not, which i like, so, let's talk about it, how do you understand that you liked

it, well, that is, it gets to some kind of essence, and me and what is happening inside, and what, this is what is happening inside you, when, as you say, i get caught up in this question, well, the question is about what? yes, in my father, that he loved, i honestly don’t know what he loved, and even this surprised me a little that i don’t know, and i’m just saying that you know, well, in principle, no, i know he he loved company very much, yes, cheerful company, he really liked to relax, he really liked to be in the spotlight, so he really loved to be the life of the party, and i was very inspired by this, of course, and you wanted to be like her, like her. and he was a very authoritarian person, that is, everything in the house had to obey his will, and nothing else, that is , the father was in charge and the mother took care of the house, yeah,

that’s how it was, and such a certain ideal picture of the family was present, of course, there is no way without this, you say, dad was there, dad is no more, yes, dad died 10 years ago, were you 22? yes, i was 22 years old, for me it was it was probably the biggest shock in life, well, such that in my life there is no longer a person who was for me, well, i can’t say that the ideal of a man, well, probably the very first ideal, in childhood, yes, who receives a girl, that is, a state of protection, security, was given to me by my father, in childhood, yeah. therefore, for me it was such a certain state on the one hand, on the one hand fear, yes, as now without it, on the other hand liberation, freedom,

because there was this authoritarian disposition, yes, that it’s possible this way, it’s not possible, only this way, studying and so on, only b’s, a’s, there’s no other way, either this way or not at all, that’s it, that’s how it was. and on the one hand, yes, i really lost one of my parents, on the other hand , no matter how strange it may sound, as if now you have the right to choose, you are watching the triggers podcast, with you its host tatyana krasnovskaya, a psychologist and psychotherapist, psychologist psychotherapist sergey nasibyan, we are listening to lena and her story, your first relationship happened already... after the death of dad, but the first relationship is not there, just, let's say, a slight teenage crush, it happened again, but in general there were guys whom you introduced to your father, there was not a single man whom i introduced to my

, that is, you pretended that these guys didn’t exist, you hid it from them or just, well, just if i hadn’t hidden it, maybe i don’t know what kind of conversation these young people would have had, and i probably would have shepherded here in the first place , both for them and for himself, but what should dad have done? well understanding the words that i yes i heard from him that if i just found out certain things there , then there would be some kind of conversation , i was very afraid of this conversation, what kind of things, what should you have done, why did dad have to be there? well , firstly, i was always worried that they would not meet his expectations, then i, as a dad, can help you. to say, they definitely don’t meet his expectations, as if it’s normal, i don’t know how it happened that i really chose - it seems to me,

these are the very ones - well, as they say, yes, hooligan guys at that time, that is, the very, very best that were possible, because there were a lot of prohibitions of some kind, and of course i wanted, of course, to break them, to break them, but i still wanted to clarify, let's... let's try to give free rein to our imagination, since dad clearly threatened, it's a threat, that if suddenly, god forbid, i find out , i can't imagine what i'll do to you, but you still imagined somewhere, here's a fantasy, if you let go of yours, then what... what should dad have done if he found out, well, let him go stairs, i don’t know, something else, well, this is it, i stink from the house, in relation to you, in relation to me, well, i was worried about some kind of physical, yes, that is, to beat you, but i have this never happened, but at the same time some words like this, i mean, he never beat you, but he threatened that he could beat you, kill you, that’s the word, kill, and yes, well, i’ll kill you if you , well, there will be a very serious conversation, yes there, but in

my hearts, how could i say that i don’t know there, i’ll do something like that, well we are now being watched there by, i don’t know, millions of people, believe me, 99% of them have heard threats related to death from their parents at least once in their lives, and it’s kind of implicit that they will kill you, but here i am i’ll kill you if i find out that i smoked there or i ’ll kill you, i’ll throw you out. from the balcony from the window or, well, that is, some kind of threats, just now you told me this reminded me of this, i’ll kill you, and so these are the moments, yes, i remember , well, it’s obvious that dad basically taught you to be afraid, yeah, okay, and apparently well how if only dad were alive, you would never have been able to reach that level of perfection so that he would finally say, well, now i love you, now i praise you, now you can, no ,

you didn’t succeed. and, when you realize that you never met, and that means you don’t meet now, and most likely you will no longer meet the high bar that dad set for you, that’s how you feel this conflict within yourself? i really want it, of course. i still want them to say that they are proud of me, yeah. okay, after all, if dad loved to be the center of attention, dad loved big companies, dad loved to relax, there, when you witnessed these big companies, you probably saw how dad showed sympathy for other people, it could be women, men, friends, girlfriends, it doesn’t matter, just remember, you don’t even have to call this person by name, but remember as someone, it could be there, i don’t know, aunt dasha, aunt zina, it doesn’t matter, anyone, yes, you understand

that dad likes her now doesn’t make sense. very kind, very cheerful and, in principle, generally a sense of humor, it seems to me that what set him apart from other people, the most important thing was so bright, for me, it was his sense of humor, his ability to maneuver in certain situations, yes, be able to do that. laugh at any situation, because of course, he told me such words , yes, now we will return to the fact that i will kill you, but then, when supposedly everything is okay, everything is fine, he says, well done, okay , but still it was more like condescending praise, but not like that triumph of some kind of genius of yours, a talent that dad would admire, well, yes, yes, and this feeling , this one, which you describe as a desire to still conform, seems on... that feeling you experience in relationships

with men? yes, so, well, now , when you are talking to us, would you like, as a result of this conversation, to find this button, this trigger and turn it off so as not to feel this way anymore, or is this what you are trying to achieve, my main question is probably, and since i’ve read various literature, yes, i consider myself a strong person, i consider myself a strong woman, and yes, i very... often i hear in my environment that a strong person is usually attracted to weak men, strong women, i have, weak men are probably the main question, and this is what to do in such a situation, if i don’t want to build relationships with weak men, in your opinion, an abuser - that would be a weak person, a weak man, so we can just agree, so strong man, how would you behave, i think

that... a man will not put pressure in order to get what he wants, that is, to get a certain picture that he imagines, yes, that you should be like that, but if i have to be like that, maybe then a person is needed to be like that, what, how did you imagine him, uh-huh, uh-huh, and your dad was a strong man, yes, but why then did he suppress your mother, again a good question, yes, a good question. i already understand from your facial expressions when i ask the right questions, good ones, even not the right ones, good ones, i like them, me they praise him today, well, probably, it was easier for him, so that it would be easier for him. suppress your mother, well, yes, well then you are avoiding my direct question, after all, if he was a strong man, but still suppressed his mother, then somewhere you are confused, either then you evaluate men incorrectly today, or you dad you allow what you don’t allow other men, maybe you were obviously brought up in such a way that it’s not difficult to force, persuade, convince you to fry

cutlets, cook breakfast, i don’t know there, cleaned, washed, and so on, well, so that you could be like a mother, but in fact, because your mother, as you say, was engaged in... such a role for a woman in front of herself, but i myself am not like that, that is, this is what, probably the very root of the question goes back to the fact that i have my own business, i work, and myself, i’m quite, well, such a straightforward person, i... like to keep things to myself, but when in my last relationship, i tried very hard to play this role as a mother, i really wanted that here i am, a wonderful wife, there already in my thoughts at that moment, it seems to me that i was already building this for myself, at the end

, when i turned around, looked at the man, just at the moment when i cooked borscht and just looked back, well... all this picture, i had a feeling that this was not mine at all, that is, i asked myself the question inside, why are you deceiving yourself, for what? elen, when i asked the last good question about the fact that your dad, being a strong man, in your opinion, still suppressed your mother, is there something wrong with you? happened inside, well, you have changed, let’s say, what kind of feeling did it cause when i practically forced you to admit that either... i was not as strong as you thought, or you are mistaken, i will go from the opposite, i like to go from the opposite , maybe i’m wrong, that is, it’s easier for you to admit that you’re wrong, that is, you can’t just remove dad from his pedestal, it seems to you, right? i’m just trying to understand now why he suppressed

my mother, i really don’t know why, listen, well, judging by your worldview picture, because he was weak in his relationship with his mother, he was a wonderful dad, he was the best possible husband, but you are looking for a husband for yourself, not a dad, but do you think your mother was happy in her relationship with your father? as she says yes, it’s good that she says that, that is, when i ask her, i say, as she says, this is my life, this is my choice, and i made my choice, well, yes, i still i’ll come back to this, yes, what will happen if we finally take dad off his pedestal, because you really, well, how can i say, are a person? true, you really do have such a dense, rigid personality structure , yes, but at that moment when i asked you this question, and you went inside like that, as if to think, you blushed sharply, and i know that you are definitely aware of this kind of awkwardness, and like all people who blush, you probably avoid it in such

circumstances, but i will assume that at this moment, if you follow me, you will agree that i now suspect your father, otherwise it’s as if there is some kind of betrayal of him that we seem to be talking about it’s not very right, it’s not very good, well, there is such a thing, there is such a feeling, great, but do you understand that if you put a man instead of your dad, then you will also betray your father, well, i’ll give a certain image that was created in my head , of course, this image is strong, and yes, probably yes, how would you feel now if your father right now... told you that my daughter, you know, in fact, i never had the courage , to give your mother that love, that freedom, that tenderness that she deserved, what would you feel if he would now essentially admit to you that he did not

have the strength to live with a free woman, so he put her at home , did what he did, i think that i would probably exhale at that moment, probably, but what did you tell him? thank you for admitting this, what would it be like for you, that a person admitted his weakness , what was in him, like in any person, and what conclusion would you draw for yourself then, that any person has the right to error, most likely, such a conclusion and even the one that you the closest one and yes, the person who was on the pedestal for me, that is, even the winner, may make a mistake. what would that give you? do you know what kind of relationship a person would have? may be mistaken, what he can

afford, that there are no ideal people, what does this mean that you may not be ideal? yes, yes, that i am not an ideal person either. and it also seems to me that there is a very important awareness here, perhaps, that your relationship does not need to be assessed now from his position, what kind of relationship you will have. the only one the real value of this relationship is determined by your feeling of happiness, love, comfort, everything. all we need in this sense is to get out of our heads and add a little feeling, add a little personal value to it all. then you won’t, well, at least judge in terms of

abuse and victimhood. if we, for example, put this person in the role of an abuser, for example, we say that he is inside himself, then from that moment we can no longer have a relationship with reality, we only have a relationship with the model that he performs for us, acts out, this is your freedom, probably the most important thing. then you can learn to appreciate your feelings or focus on them in these three of yours, there were three such basic episodes in your relationship, well, probably the most fundamental one was just the father of my child, when i met him like since almost after i lost my father and there was even a fear that the person would leave in principle, as if it would be the same departure as a father, that is

all the time i’m afraid of this leaving and that the relationship ends, as if this is the same leaving that i had to endure, and thus you end up in codependent relationships, you create them, this is your contribution, but how do you these codependent relationships lead to episodes of obsessiveness, as you say, what criteria were there... in your life, was it physical violence or what was it? in one of the relationships i had an element of physical violence, it was there, and after that i realized that that's it, now looking back, look, there was probably a point where everything could have been ended before, what did not allow you to identify this point, to see, to realize your own power over your life? maybe something else can be changed? maybe i’m still wrong about something, maybe it’s still worth looking further and something will change, and you understand that this

pattern, that maybe i’m still wrong, is the pattern of your relationship with dad, because you couldn’t prove it to him, because hiding most of your own life from him, without telling him there, somehow hiding it all, yes, he pretended that he didn’t notice it, and you pretended that no one knew anything, it turns out that it was as if he really i never found out. he didn’t know me, this is really a fact, you see, and this is again the same thing that happens in your relationships with men, and what sergey is talking about, this is the point where you could have stopped a little earlier in the model where you are careful attitude towards your feelings, where you value your feelings and you hear them, there it is unacceptable, this couldn’t have happened there, essentially this is a point of truth when you need to stop lying to yourself and give the other person the right to leave. to stay, to show anything, absolutely, yes, in order not to lead to a state where this person

uses force, for example, yes, because well, this is unacceptable, obviously, but if we talk about what tatyana is talking about, how did you allow another person to sit on such a pedestal, where you place him as somehow the main thing in your relationship, and your sense of self begins to depend on him, that’s where you you start to lose yourself, that's for sure. therefore, the most important thing is to learn to trust yourself, your feelings, and for this you need to, well , touch them with your fingertips all the time, and this is the only truth about you, for you, no matter what the other person says, but your feeling will definitely never be deceived , your feelings, you are watching the podcast triggers with you, its host tatyana krasnovskaya, psychologist, psychotherapist , psychologist and... therapist sergei nasebyan, as for your relationship with your dad, well, it’s

always not very pleasant, probably. a situation when you need to remove him from the pedestal, and for a while, he will then get back there again, but this will be a more conscious decision or something, because yes, this is dad, he was a good dad, a husband, not a fact, but you it’s as if the tracing paper had been removed from him for any manifestations of masculinity, yes, this is true , this is where i agree, because having been in this state, when you said that let’s try to get away from this image, suddenly it’s as if there’s purity and a white sheet, that is, how could it be otherwise, i, as a father, can help you say, they are there as a psychologist, and as a father, that when we raise a daughter, we put a lot in her with a reserve, so that she - you know, in the caucasus there is such a proverb that when you raise a son, you raise a person, and when you raise a daughter, you are raising a nation, but the daughter always seems to be burdened with a little more than is probably necessary, so of course it’s very difficult for women, especially when dad

really took such a position, it’s no better than... dad is the opposite disappointed, but when dad turned out to be such an ideal, then of course, well, usually it is very difficult for women to build relationships with their husband, with men, with their husband, and dad really taught you a lot and showed you a lot, but i want to say that you know, as you remember, pinocchio was looking for gold key, and he found it near the tortilla, and i hope i won’t offend anyone by saying that this tortilla is for you, this is your mother now, just sit down and talk to her about how you saw him and what he was like from her point of view, not in no way destroying any ideals, in no case doing anything like that, but just talk to her about her feminine part , what kind of woman she was, we already had such a conversation, you see, especially since in fact the picture painted is, let’s say, quite complex

, not very rosy, as it turned out, and... and there were some moments that i didn’t even want to believe, it was just after his death, but i said for myself, and i told her too, that i it doesn't matter what happened between you, because i don't want this one of mine to be shaken here is the world, which, here i am with my questions, so that this ideal , most likely yes, i raised it, let’s say, to a very high level, despite the fact that, by the way, we communicated very little with it, in general, we saw each other very little, i understand, in the evening there were 2 minutes, where i was doing homework there back in school , they told me, well done, you’re doing your homework, yes, it’s not like your brother is there, everything is yes, that’s why you and you had to always earn this praise that you are trying to earn from men today, from

this ideal man, yes, but i offer you no longer look back at praise, but... only at your feelings, sensations, and one more very important point, in my opinion, you said one such phrase, it was very important to me, it was from the point of view of analysis, you said, i was afraid that the relationship would end, remember one simple thing, relationships will end, any kind, and you need to live with a person in such a way that if they end today, you will not regret it, and this can only be done without betraying yourself in this relationship, that's what i'm aiming for, maybe that's it there is that litmus test... a test that will help you come to terms with your feelings , yes, yes, because very often - i blocked some of mine, i don’t like something, well, i understand that my mother probably would too would have blocked it so as not to lead to a conflict, and this is probably the main idea that she always tried to convey to me, i saved the family, that’s why you

are fighting in your life between your mother’s scenario and the invented scenario: with an ideal dad, but you no longer a mother, that's good, unlike moms, you are definitely not the woman who will sit at home and save something there so that, yes, you have the opportunity to be absolutely free in your decisions, but with you free it will be impossible to do anything when you are just for yourself you’ll bear it, and of course, dad doesn’t evaluate you based on your relationships, so just accept the fact that dad would really be ready to tell you today, already when he’s 32, that in reality everything was not like that , let's summarize what you're taking, what new strategies, uh, if any, you take it into your life, i tried my dad’s script of being strong in relationships , it didn’t work out, i tried my mom’s script of being weak, submissive, and so on, it didn’t

work out for me, maybe now it’s time to allow it. yes, allow, yes, allow yourself, build your personal relationship scenario , this is probably the most important thing, yes, give free rein to your inner freedom, and i really liked that... what you recommended to me specifically about feelings, to rely on i often push my feelings somewhere far away, so what? it seemed, yes, this word, it seemed to me, it didn’t seem to me, but trusting yourself , trusting yourself is a very - just a feeling that is not very familiar to me yet, thank you very much, it was the podcast triggers with you, its hosts tatyana krasnovskaya and sergey nasebyan, today we talked with elena about her relationships, about the figure of the father in the life of a woman and a girl, in my opinion, it was interesting. you

can find all episodes of the triggers podcast on the website of the first channel 1tv.ru. hello. with you the podcast schrödinger's cat and i am its presenter grigory tarasevich, editor-in-chief of the popular science magazine schrödenger's cat, and we simply talk about complex scientific things, on the other hand, we talk scientifically about very simple things, and today we will talk about a seemingly simple thing, like plastic, it’s everywhere in furniture, in bags, in packaging, everywhere , but is it safe, is it good, or vice versa, is it scary, we have two