gloomy, without gloss, hmm, i didn’t notice, but there was an actor who put it on himself, do you remember this story 2 years ago, when brad pete came out in the costume of lyudmila prokofievna, no, this is a red carpet, i know that they compare it all the time with all sorts of prada outings and brown suits, but i think that if you put them side by side, it will be just heaven and earth. natasha, how would you today... would you run a business lady, if they were filming a remake of an office romance, probably in thinner jeans, thinner, thinner, but this is a business lady remotely, remotely and after remotely, it seems to me that people now allow themselves not to comply with the dress code, well , we won’t come up with this plot now, but i think it’s great to first show a person in something so shapeless, huge, we’re like

... life experience, they never look at labels, they never look at, oh, i won’t wear this, this is some kind of fabric, they immediately try on clothes as if they were an image of a character, that is, they understand that it’s not them, but they were given the opportunity to reincarnate, look, we have a lot famous, talented actresses with a lot of roles, really talented, but not everyone becomes a diva, what distinguishes a diva? just a talented actress. is diva

still about appearance, about image, or is it about talent? what is this about? i think that to become a diva, what can help is to meet your director, to get into the right role with this director, there without unnecessary modesty, i will say , maybe meet the right costume designer, well, as examples, i don’t know, audrey haborn and jivanshiy, this wouldn’t have happened a little black dress from breakfast at tiffany’s, if only there were...

men prefer blondes, well, this one with long gloves and a naturally flowing white dress, that is, it ’s like a woman who is immediately associated with her looks, whom which of the modern actresses would you call a diva? tilda, definitely, yes, she is, of course, a diva somehow. this image creates and carries, it is reincarnated every time, it’s very cool, she also has an absolutely alien appearance, yes, but it could be presented in different ways, she works very well with her. natalie portman, we can say that she is a diva, on the red carpet, yes, in life, look at paparazzi photographs - she is an ordinary woman with children in ordinary clothes, that is , few foreign actresses today can really be called a diva, because we, thanks to ...on networks we often see their

everyday lives, not only all foreigners, ours too, any beautiful actress who knows how to show herself and become a diva on the red carpet, she is still in everyday life, still in her... on social networks appears in jeans, in t-shirts, but it’s not that it doesn’t make her a wonder, it’s not good, it’s not bad, it’s just that life has become so more open, that is, to become a diva, you need to cut yourself off from social networks and avoid paporation, i i think yes, so that only professional filming, only cinema, then you are in people’s minds, you are a diva, i think , well, how good is this, because often some everyday images are even more charismatic than this. .. these cold divas, well, you know, it seems to me that actresses don’t do this very much, especially actively working actresses with a lot of roles in the theater, with roles in films, they don’t have time for these interesting everyday images, it’s more like some kind of blogging story, and modeling, and in general in

our time is already very commercial, because all the interesting images that we see are invented, i don’t know, they are sisters or... who else is the kardashian family, it’s still all done in order to sell what soviet actresses wore and how it was reflected modern cinema, with costume designer natalya konevskaya we are discussing the looks of soviet film stars, it seems that before those actresses who were called divas played very different roles, for lyudmila gurchenko, for vertinskaya. and well, almost all of our actresses had very different roles, they could be some kind of provocative beauties and village women, but today modern actresses, they more often become hostages of one image in cinema, why is it that today we have such actresses, not

a wide range is used, do you want me to now start criticizing the industry in which i work, no, of course, images change, no, i think that... we changed elena yakovleva very much for the image of shpaklyak, in general we had such a wonderful joke, i don’t know if it’s allowed or not, that you can check when a large film crew is sitting and discussing that elena yakovleva will play shapoklyak, and then by the roles they remember her for, you can understand what age people are, because someone her remembers her as kamenskaya, these are people in their thirties, some remember her as an inter-girl, these are people in their forties, well, now a new generation is growing up. in intergirl there were also some quite unusual ones, so i remember from my childhood that wow, for soviet cinema it was so very provocative , very by the way, one of the very quotable images, these are all these heroines, there is such a famous photograph where they are in four of them sit at the beginning, and in almost

every film about the eighties there is some kind of story with some kind of or prostitutes or with some kind of bar for foreigners sitting somewhere in the background, in general, i very often pick up this photo, very often look at it in order to create some similar images. it seems to me that many, at least my generation, all schoolgirls from prom, had similar photos from the prom, because all these hairstyles, fishnet tights, yes, it was all very, very relevant. today for some modern films, are you inspired? vintage looks i guess that yes, especially because all my films are mixed, and i’m doing a historical project, then some modern project, when you look at these historical costumes and images from films, you suddenly rethink, you think, this

the same thing, this is the same thing we wear now, so this is where it came from, that is, it is always such an endless process of understanding the origins of... who was inspired by what, and new images are born from this, well, fashion is really very cyclical, the same office romance very much resonates with modern collections, for example miumiu, but at the same time it is supplemented with some bright, provocative details, for example, on top this is mymra’s suit, below these are these panties embroidered with rhinestones, yes, this is wonderful, it’s absolutely interesting how these panties with rhinestones will become popular among the people, i 'm looking forward to this, and how do you like this trend

? for playing sports, and shorts began to be worn on the city streets, just these sports clothes. to the t-shirt, tell us a little more about this era of the eighties, when there was the olympics, because it was such a mixture of cultures, when a huge number of people came from all over the world to the soviet union , if you want to say russia, the soviet union, yes, and it happened such penetration of a new culture, everything fashionable, how it influenced soviet fashion, had a very strong influence, i see this from all the references and from photographs that directly happened. transition, but in general there was a transition from style

the seventies into the style of the eighties , and these are just completely different silhouettes, but there were these bell-bottomed trousers, very tight shirts, sharp collars, everything was so tight, narrow, well , let’s say, uncomfortable, these ones, you probably also came from your mother i heard stories that jeans were put on only lying down, fastened , fastened, it was impossible to breathe today. even the nineties, maybe the late eighties, oh, this jane fonda style with the headbands, yes, this belt on the swimsuit,

the bomber jackets you are wearing, this is also these are tracksuits with bomber jackets, leggings, short shorts, sneakers, sneakers, we had never worn sneakers before, but natalya varley was an ambassador of this sporty style, yes, yes, but she was still kind of on a hike at that moment , of course, this was also such a breakthrough for that time and it seems special to me.

brands, yeah, vintage jewelry, probably yes, you know, oddly enough, i was faced

with the fact that all the soviet symbols, real soviet things are very expensive, t-shirts with the olympic bear, sports suits, these olympic jerseys, real woolen ones with the inscription ussr, not fake, not altered modern copies, exactly from that time, it’s very expensive, to watch all sorts of films, especially tv series about some... some topics, there is no style left , how today this

sexuality of an actress is broadcast, this is clearly not through revealing clothes, just charisma, just getting into the casting, because i am sure that no one can predict some kind of story like sharon stone, who throws her leg on leg in white dress and for 20 years this image has been cited as the sexiest. as the most daring, although it would seem, but of the modern russian actresses, who would you call, as sexy as this, now, so dangerous, so coming.

this sexy role, well, i think that she has become a hostage for many directors , this is her decision, we will see her again in different roles, who else? i really love all the images of marina zudina, but this is precisely due to charisma, but due to charisma, because you can put all the same things on some other actress without her appearance, without her posture, nothing will work. thank you very much natasha, you were very interesting, i wish you as much interesting, bright work as possible. from different eras and of course success in your difficult work of finding the right things, i realized that this is really a very, very difficult task, it’s true, you don’t know what to watch, a win-win option would be the classics of soviet cinema, and of course, all the releases not a bastard and a podcast lab, which you can find on the first website.

hello, this is the psyche podcast, my name is natalya loseva and we continue to sort through the chests of our problems to look for the most correct keys, even to extremely difficult life situations. today with me in the studio is logotherapist and existential psychologist svetlana shtokareva, head of the higher school of logotherapy at the moscow institute of psychoanalysis. hello, svetlana, hello, natalya, our guest oksana. oksana's request is very clear. oksana, tell me yourself. yes, i'm 38 years old, i 'm married, i have two children, and my big problem is that i still can't move out of parents. yes. we still live together, that is, how i was born in this house, how i

got married and built my career and gave birth to two children. and we still continue to live to this day. with my parents and not only, but also with my grandmother, who will soon be 84 years old, that is, our situation is such that it is a three-room apartment, in which there are four generations, three housewives in the kitchen, and we live in one room, that is i, my husband, our two children, just recently got a kitten, and well, there’s this problem, how many of you are there? a person now lives in a three-room apartment, seven people, seven people and... yes, have you already tried to leave somehow? no, have you been thinking about this for a long time? that, well, yes, we wanted, we want, but when we start talking about it with my husband, somehow it always turns out that it ’s like there’s no finances, it’s like we don’t

have enough and so, well, now it’s still there , even if we take out some kind of mortgage or rent, well... for rent, then we will have practically nothing left for housing, that is, as if we were all time we come to the conclusion that there seems to be no finances, but on the other hand, when we needed a car, we went and bought it, we found the finances for it, and this is more of your initiative now, or let’s say, this is your active thought, that it’s time to leave, or my husband is also thinking about it, well, i probably voice it more, i start talking about this topic more often, since i’m at home more, i’m more with... i touch everyone, that’s basically he goes to work, returns in the evening, when everyone has already gone their separate ways rooms, and everything seems to be fine , there are weekends, parents sometimes go to the dacha , when of course everyone stays at home, here we begin to think more and more often that it would be nice to move away, well, in any case, it would be nice for my family to have its own corner

, you are more likely, as i heard, if i heard correctly, you want to leave your parents, but you have already decided for yourself how you separated from your parents, or somewhere else i am resorting to them, that is, i also have the same question here not fully resolved within me. then what will i get benefits? well, my great desire is to be a mistress in my own kitchen, to raise my own children, and just to conduct even

just my own life the way i want. ok, what are the disadvantages? so you left? and what are the disadvantages, that if i need to go somewhere, work, some events, then it’s already agreed upon, it’s already calculated the time to take the children, that is, it’s like the children are in their rage. they remained fine, everything was already familiar, i just got up and went about my business, and if we live separately, then this is like moving, this is time, that is, it is already separately planning the time, when to come, when to visit, how to help, that is, as it were , well, this help is not constant, that is, it will no longer be the same available daily as always, again my grandmother is a lively person. she is a beauty, she absolutely loves to cook, that is, i know that it will always be delicious, it will always be delicious, there

will definitely always be soup with pancakes. svetlana, before you enter into dialogue with our guest, i want ask you, what is the role of a psychologist in such a situation? well , it’s hard to say with such a clear answer what will happen in a dialogue with a client, it’s always art and improvisation, but... the purpose of this communication is so that a person, well at least in the lagotherapeutic approach, will not just have a certain decision on what to do, but also for all forces to be activated in order for this decision to be implemented, that is, it is not enough to realize something, it is not enough to understand something, you also need to obtain some kind of internal consent for implementation this decision has a very specific plan of action that could be taken in the very near future.

something so good, something, something suitable for everyone, i am deeply convinced that with some such issue of decision or choice that a person faces, it is not enough for him to make a decision only for himself, it is important for him, for him it is important that all participants in this process also receive something, but at the same time, look, she immediately draws our attention to the issue of separation. yes, she is thinking about create her own nest, she thinks about flying out of the nest in which she

was staying, in which it is cozy, but at the same time, in order to look for worms for herself, in order to spread her wings herself, this is important, but at the same time, it is also important to show those whom she leaves if this decision is made that everything... worked out for them, including that the best parenting is the best parenting when you know that your children can spread their wings and fly on their own when you are with you watch with delight how they flog in the sky, this is the best, the best gift for parents, if the chick wants it, well, let's help, let's, yeah, oksana, but first you said that there are seven of you, and i counted six, and i, my husband, two children, are already four. we know almost nothing about dad, yes, and this is important, i think , yes, of course, what kind of relationship do you have with dad,

good, good, and with mom too, yes, you said, but how does dad treat you, or what do you think? , how would he feel if you created your own nest and started living separately with your family, well, it seems to me, that's a little jealous. in general, in principle , when i got married, it was a little difficult for him to accept my husband, especially the fact that my husband came to our territory, so dad probably wanted more for there to be a different relationship, so that everything would work out a little bit from the beginning otherwise, but i had to come to terms with how it turned out, now dad, well, at least he says he’s broadcasting what’s great for him with his grandchildren, how great it is that they ’re here every day, that he comes home from work, he can take them for a walk, that is, like a grandfather, he now it’s being realized right here in all its glory, and well, he always actually

said that i don’t feel sorry for anything for you and your mother, i live only for you, now he has grandchildren, grandchildren, well, that’s all for them, i’m building a dacha there, i’ll just leave it to them, i’m buying a car there, just for them, yeah, and well, it seems to me that he ’ll be missing something, probably so, but that’s my vision, yeah, my point, how is their relationship with your husband now, good, good? yes, well, my husband is actually great in this regard, he does everything tries to win, tried to win the trust of his parents , in order to win them over, well, after all , i’ll say this, they don’t grab my parents, some stars from the sky, a simple soviet family, that’s it well, we’re used to the fact that if it’s a family, then we need to be friendly, we need to all be together, together is great, together is cool, that is, if something happens, then

we better... get through it together, that is, well here , in our country, it is the value of family that is brought up from the very beginning, uh-huh, uh-huh, as it seems to you, that’s it is it important to pass this value on to your children, your grandchildren, and onwards? the value of family , yes, traditions, yes, but still i adhere to the fact that i try to raise boys in such a way that 18, you are independent and the time will come when you fly away, each to your own nest, and what message would you give them? in order for them to succeed , you will succeed, i believe in you, try to do everything in such a way as to live separately, well, i will help you in every possible way, as much as i have the opportunity to do so, but i really want each of you built your own personal life myself, yeah, why is this important to you , probably because i didn’t get it, why is this important to you, i want it myself, why is it important for you that your children

build their own lives. so that they can cope with it there, why is this important to you? i guess i now want to return to your words at the beginning, when you said that this is such great praise and understanding from parents, what happened, this is what parenthood turned out to be, yeah, we’ll definitely come back to this, it’s great that you caught it, but after all, it seems to me that natalya , it seems to me, guesses what answer i want, and you know it, but it hasn’t been pronounced yet, that’s actually what you’re talking about...

you could watch how everything is going with them ok, why do you care how things will happen for them, because these are my children, at the same time i will get my personal life so that you can live with the same delight, you will get your personal life, but you said , these are your children, and what follows from this, that you feel for them, well, love, care, and this is my continuation, this... and yours continuation at the same time something very independent, yeah, that is, they inherited genetics there, they inherited the health that they may have inherited from you and from their spouses, but at the same time, they are independent people who they must go through their own lives, and no one else can possibly go through this life, you can stand somewhere on the side of the road and watch them

walk... at the same time, they must move their own legs, and here you can’t replace them with anyone , and you can’t substitute anyone here, it’s everyone himself must go through their own life, and you said that you want it this way because you love them, that it is out of love that you come from it when you look for them to go through life on their own, but at the same time you said that your parents they also love you very much, but would they want... for you to walk through this life on your own? i think yes. and how can this be expressed? this is how their love for you can be expressed in terms of allowing your life to develop independently? this is the message that they could send to you, that perhaps you do you hear from them in this regard? i guess i hear it, but maybe i don’t perceive it, or

maybe my message is not that way. and what do you hear, my mother even recently said such a phrase that i am even ready to sell the dacha in order to invest in an apartment, that is, my mother is ready to let you go. yes, but then i objected, what am i saying, what are you doing? i say, dacha, i say, this is a family nest , like this, it’s impossible, well, uh, i say, we ’ll find some other way, and my mother also talks about how, well, now we’ll supply gas to the dacha , we can already to go there, she said to me, oksan, well , we don’t want to leave this apartment completely, i say, mom, no one is kicking you out, what are you talking about, i say, well, this is your apartment, as if i were saying, this is for us move out? it’s not you who need it, we, well, we need to look for some ways, we need to look for some, well, roads to separate each other, that is, my mother said that they are even ready to sell the dacha in order to invest in a new house for you, but how then or you can

observe family traditions, if you suddenly live separately with your family, you will have your own apartment, your own kitchen, everyone child in the room, you and your husband will sit in the living room, then... go to the bedroom, you have a beautiful view from the window, and you cook and order food yourself, well, then there will be family traditions that follow from your parents, like then there will be holidays, meetings, going to the theater together, as we love to do, and after school the children can come to grandma’s to eat her delicious pies, pancakes, yes, yes, of course, but how old are your children? 6 years old, five, they are still small, yes, small, this is a podcast of the psyche, everyone else watch podcasts on the website 1tv.ru. svetlana, can i ask you, look, you

somehow very quickly brought oksana to her father’s line, and it seemed to me that it was very good, you hit the nail on the head, yeah, and i was watching oksana when you were talking about it, and as i read her emotions, it seemed to me that perhaps you would tell oksana. is it true or not that you are probably even scared that you might upset your father, yes, there is such a thing, yes, that this will be a blow for dad, maybe this is the hook that holds the whole situation, yeah, what do you think , there's something about it, because i have a feeling that if we are gone, he will become completely bored with life, because every time he comes home from work, it’s there, well, one day he can even pick up the children. from kindergarten, that is, he understands that he is flying home from work, he now has responsibilities there, that he will come now, go for a walk with them, play with them there or watch something, that is, well, somehow the evening is already busy for him, and if they’re not there, i think he’ll get bored, maybe

oksana is a hostage to her daughter like that very childish love for dad, maybe here we have just a request for separation, this is actually a cool story, in general this is...

standing very close, because the load will fall, and far away, because the load will fall, but they must stand at a distance, so that the wind blows between them , so that there is still some kind of independence in this column, then this is a good family for marital relationships, and for relationships with different generations, so that the wind blows, so that there really is an opportunity to be together apart to know that i can be alone, that i have... something to rely on in myself, but i have excellent rears, i have something to lean my shoulder blades on, this is a wonderful story, i have something to share further, to pass on this kind of family strategy that we always know where we will gather, we can go to the theater, and even

i would go further, your dad, who now only comes home, knows that his children are waiting for him there, if you suddenly lived separately, he has more there would be responsibilities, more tasks, you need to come for a visit, the whole history, to arrive empty-handed , to meet the children, to see them off, to ensure their safety, to spend time while you might be at work, and for him... that, firstly, this is the man who

raised me from the cradle , my parents also didn’t show me how to fly out of the parental nest, they stayed with her, and my grandmother is the person who took me to kindergarten every day, carried me back in her arms, that is, this is the person who very wisely supported during my puberty, yes, when it was difficult for me to make any decisions, my grandmother was always there, and she always so deftly seated me at the table with tea, these heart-to-heart conversations, that is, she talked there about her childhood, the years after the war, how they there was famine and so on, and for her the family seemed to be, well, in principle, she conveyed this to me, how valuable this family is, that even now she very often says: how great it is that we are all together, how great it is that we we can all be here together, even if it’s in a small kitchen, but... together, here she keeps this fire in the house

, that is, it turns out, svetlana, look, for oksana to leave home and separate now, this is even to some extent, but if you don’t betray, then disappoint your grandmother, the most, most significant adult, yeah, this it’s just some kind of dead end we’re getting, in fact it’s not quite like that, but it’s great that there’s a grandmother there at the age of eighty-four. has such experience, like this, she’s like this, the main, main character of this family, she’s the head of this family, she looks, as it were, what’s happening and how such a picture opens up in front of her, but at the same time, it would probably be important for her grandmother to understand that when she leaves, she will definitely leave someday, so that those who remain have the opportunity to also... cope without her,

maybe, maybe, but probably now is a period when it is very important for her to be needed, yes, it is important to be heard, yeah, and you know, as i understand this, i try to support her in this, that is, and her husband too, but how, for example, do you do it, well , husband, for example, oh there. oh it's the weekend tomorrow bake your pasties or pies there, that is, the children there, for example, order soup for her, for her this is so important, for her it is so supportive, yes, that is, she is there even when the children come home, she is there, oh, let me help you take off your shoes, i understand, but you don’t need to take off these shoes, they have to do it themselves, you understand, at the age of 5 they can take off their shoes themselves, but she can’t, so i want to serve you, so let me help you, and that is, she has this feeling when she... in life she has always helped someone, she, well, it’s really like that in our country

at home it was always that no matter who came , she would help everyone, she would always give more bags with something, they would definitely send it there, put at least bread, a piece of butter, but she would definitely give something, that is, she is such a person, she she gives, she always gives, now , that is, well, it’s impossible for her, but how can she change her life like that, how do they yes, and who will i give to, and what would be the answer, to whom can she give and what can she give, how? how can she, i don’t know, i have a dead end here, i personally have a dead end here, because i see how in life, for example, she gives it to her son-in-law, that is, my dad, she has looked after him all her life, that is, like her own son, looks after him, strokes him, cooks, until a certain age she always cleaned the apartment, and so on, that is when i had already grown up, she said that this is my boundary , please don’t go into my room, i will clean myself, i beg you, that is... we also had such things there - some kind of grinding,

then after all i won back, she stopped cleaning there, how did you do it? well, honestly , at some time it was through swearing, then i just fought back with a scream and said: “don’t, please, i beg you, please don’t come here, because i ’m used to having this undercutter standing this way and i don’t want it to stand differently, i i’ll wipe this dust myself, just please don’t come in, that is, you ’ve already gone through a piece of separation, you’ve strained yourself a little with your hand, hand, yes. that’s why all this is needed, for what purpose is all this being done, why do we care so much, we care so much and we cherish our children, grandchildren there and so on, she also describes an ideal family, you understand, she describes that dream family, especially if you look from the outside , without delving into it, yes, this is what it looks like, this is a really friendly family in which everyone appreciates each other, look, because its

non-separation, as for me it seems that she is not the unseparation of an infantile person, no, on the contrary, she thinks about everyone. when she leaves, she must be calm, this is very important, to be calm, that those who remain will be fine, that they know how to fry chicken, that they can cook pasties on their own, remembering their grandmother, how she taught you to do this, every time you eat pasties, after a certain number of years you will remember your

grandmother, that these turn out to be pasties and which are named after your grandmother, and this is such a wonderful story, in this sense on... really older relatives, yes, they do all this for one single purpose, well , at least they should do it, not in order to feel good, so that next to them they feel everyone like that, that’s how everything is for me here chicken under the wings supervision, but so that when there is no supervision, and one will definitely come, so that everything is in order, this is the most important task, grandma is still not very sure, perhaps you are yours... this is an independent demarche in a good sense this word, i could tell my grandmother that everything is fine, my children, grandchildren, everything is fine with them, they will cope, this does not mean that it’s time for me to die, no, it means that on sunday we will come to chabureiki, this means that i have something to do there on sunday in order to continue there

these traditions, so that every holiday, we know where we will gather and somehow contribute to this holiday, but it’s very... disturbing if i don’t know how it’s going without me, yeah, and this is where you can help, help so that your older relatives stop worrying, or so that they can really rest assured that everything is fine with you, and if something happens, you know where to find us, but the most important thing is that your children, how else can you learn independence, only in an image like way, if...

on one's own. this is a psychic podcast, where i, journalist natalya losyeva, my expert today, psychologist svetlana shtokareva, our heroine oksana, figure out how to separate as an adult. you said that you didn’t have a very good experience in this sense, because your parents, well, you couldn’t separate from your mother. you can become an example for your mother too, isn’t it too late? no, it’s never too late, but then mom’s separation will be different, adult, mature. separation, separation and such a woman who may also have her own personal life, personal life, but they probably didn’t learn this at all with dad oksana, actually...