from the texts of plato you personally most often turn to, roman viktorovich, let's start with you, well, to be honest, then probably, honestly, the chair of truth, yes, parmenite, things constantly appear that you want to look at there, and, probably, the most interesting text for working with students, it is very interesting from the point of view of different types of dialectics, dialectics, and i would say different types, yes, because it can be interpreted from the position of dialectics itself in the modern sense of the word from the point of. skeptical dialectics, everything that is presented in hypotheses, which make up the main part of the dialogue will change, but i find its water part even more interesting, where , in my opinion, socrates is dedicated to philosophy, hmm, this interest, well, conditioned by teaching, it coincides with your personal interest, if there was a personal choice, you would also, yes, probably, i would also turn to it, despite the fact that it is translated by our contemporaries and my idols, well, apparently we need to wait a little while. turn to it,

i understand. dmitry vladimirovich, and you some? well, i have a slightly different, as it were , view here, although with parmenides, by the way, i began my research activity, i have my first publication on parmenides and i still turn to him, but for me, of course, the central dialogue of plato is the state, because the state is such a quintessence of everything, social and personal existence of plato, that is, if we look at plato as a figure who in some sense is the center of ancient intellectual culture, this is of course the state, not because it is, as it were, contains a utopia, not so much because of this, but because the state is a platonic reaction, the reaction of a man who grew up among the aristocracy of athens, to the changes that were taking place in athenian society, yes, this is such a central work, as...

the date it became more relevant, lost relevance, as before, remained in the realm of such a beautiful aphoristic statement. roman viktorovich. well, it’s hard to say for sure, i think, but nevertheless, in those 80-90 years that have passed since his death, yes, several new physiognomies of plato appeared, new versions of plato. two versions of plato with some unwritten philosophy, in the tübingen version.

as a philosopher is certainly present, certainly, he is not only a writer, but also a philosopher, but they do not necessarily coincide in the way we read him before, yeah, there are many different versions of reading plato, including in the personal sense, yes, i do not want to evaluate from the point of view of truth, i like this more, i like this less, but these are completely different assemblies plato, which obviously show that we need him at the moment when european and russian thinking, including, well, as far as we are to european thinking...

greek thought, but its constant is completely different from what arose in philosophy with plato, because with plato there arose first of all this striving of thought for generalization, yes, that there for... heidger will become cursed by european thought, this very, as if metaphysics, which must be overcome, yes, and for many currents of thought xix, xx centuries, this is such a struggle with platonism, and again for very relevant in the political, social context of trends, but nevertheless, even

this struggle with plato, overcoming plato, it occurs in the field that was created by plato, that is, he set the rules of the game, defined the basic concepts, defined the relationships. as if the main, as if the concepts, posed key problems associated with the reliability of knowledge, with the role of the logical relationship of the logical and the sensory, these are the things about which much can be said in fact in fact, to say, and which they continue further, so in connection with this, can i ask a clarifying question, here is such a division, that actually according to the internal, according to the content of the development of european philosophy, we can distinguish several large periods, here are the origins. to plato, from plato to kant and from kant to our time, so how ready are you to agree with such a division, based on what has just been said, well, like any division, any division, in fact, it is always a certain choice, yes, a certain one,

some arbitrary choice, which is carried out according to some, according to some criteria, again our culture, here is european and russian culture, which in one way or another interacts with european culture, it kind of comes from... from those methodological scientific foundations that were set there first of all in the 19th, at the beginning of the 20th century, that is , i mean this historicism, the desire to look at history as a single process, to divide it into certain parts and so on and so on and so forth, and here there is a lot of questions about these divisions that danilevsky asked in our tradition, in the western tradition, like spengler, this whole direction, but here's what i...

our religious preferences or aspirations, at least, here's artistic life, it's enough to remember the myth of the cave, which is simply found in a number of literary works, often completely unconsciously, yes, as it is reproduced there, therefore from this point of view plato is very powerful, maybe we'll say a few words

then about the myth of the cave, again, if someone i haven't reread it for a long time, the myth of the cave, here too it is obviously possible to consider it in different ways, with your permission i will give you the version that i... in the way of speaking, which shows the importance of the myth, as in style. yes, he says that from now on athena can be educators of harmony, well, just from the point of view of upbringing, not upbringing, we

are like a prisoner of the cave, this is a very sharp, sharp gesture, i would say this myth, and from the side it is expressed by cognatiological, epistemological, of course, the myth of the cave unfolds this concept of a four-part the line of plato's cognitive and in general indicates at its very beginning the state in which, well, actually, for the most part, we all find ourselves, when we not only do not understand, "the russian threat on the eastern front. it becomes unclear to german burghers why it is necessary

to throw away 28 billion euros to support a country that is neither a member of the european union nor of nato. antifake, season premiere. tomorrow on the first. today we gathered with thoughts about the great philosopher plato, doctor of philosophy, roman svetlov, doctor of philosophy, dmitry bugay, candidate of political sciences, vladimir.

or in 424 he was born in the circle where socrates was an extremely popular figure,

that is, plato's great-uncle, plato's uncles, these are all people who in greek are called perigoi periton socrates, yes, those who are around socrates, those who communicate with socrates, in this sense it is all mythology, not mythology, these are the things that can really be very carefully felt when you read plato. and here i would say that the main things, again, the things that were for plato's motivation for his philosophical work was the enormous crisis of the entire greek culture, both political culture and intellectual culture, which he witnessed at the end of the pylapanesian war, because his youth, that is, the most important period for a person, the period when he is formed, came at the final... crisis of this world of the greek polis, yes, when this world, it was as if torn into two

sides, which destroyed each other for 30 years in an irreconcilable struggle, when actually, but not only this is an external war, when actually a colossal crisis of values ​​occurs, yes, which is reflected in the iotic tragedy, iotic comedy, yes, that is, when it is not clear which god to pray to and what the prayer of zeus means, when... enlightenment spreads, enlightenment undermines, accordingly , ancient religiosity, changes a person, a person changes, and ceases to orient himself in this world, that is actually what happens in...

that is in the antiquity of the world, why did they read it that way, why is it so, what could have been the reason for this, as far as we can judge in later times, why was plato read anyway, why did he suddenly turn into well, into the most different characters and the last century there, in my opinion, the reasons, and i am now well, as if in the form of some joke, although maybe in what i will say there is only a grain of joke, no, maybe

plato is one of the most dramatic of all thinkers, who understood one thing, who really said to those of... whom, that he was not very understood for a long time, that is, in fact, that, what karl barth once said, the author dies in the text, this is the famous place from the dialogue of fyodor, yes, from the dialogue of fyodor, where he criticizes written speech and where he says that well, what, it's like a statue, well, which, why does the statue say something, something was always written on it, it says the same thing, that's why this, in my opinion, is just a kind of dramatic moment, a person who realized this, perhaps, just seeing how his dialogues are read, well, if they were read, yes, his...

well, armstrom, in my opinion, writes yes, what is the doctrine of ideas, this is theology, i mean something a little different, not the doctrine of ideas, but nevertheless, of course no one gave him sanctions for this, he only worked within the framework of the school, but notice how many concepts of this theology, even if theology is said in quotation marks, then become a common place in antiquity, and some reach our time, but besides everything else, he also seems to me, a person who dramatically understands the nature of creativity, you know, an extremely interesting topic and i would like to say a little bit here stop, that's from what point of view the oral written word, yes, it is somehow accepted to consider, well, at least, maybe at such a level, almost amateurish, yes or even amateurish, that socrates did not write anything, which is also not true, yes, he did not write philosophical works, but plato already wrote there, aristotle already wrote, and the attitude towards the oral written word is already changing, as far as i understand, correct me, actually in plato

and also in aristotle, the oral word is valued much more than the written word, actually, this is what i just heard. it would never have occurred to plato or aristotle to say, well, if you want to know what i think about this , read this book of mine, how correct is what i just said, is it possible to talk like this about the attitude to the spoken word, including based on what you just said, roman viktorovich, it seems to me that you are absolutely right, the fact is that archaic greek culture, it is built fundamentally differently than, for example, middle eastern...

written practices, greek culture, it is originally different, that is, it is originally a real culture, here is archaic greece, it is a culture first of all of the oral, spoken word, when a greek speaks about the word, he means first of all the sounding living oral, spoken word, for him, even if we take aristotle, who is, as it were, a figure that is already gradually moving away from these archaic , as it were, concepts, even for him the written word is the lowest level of meaningful speech, because as if there are things, they are reflected in our mental representations, then they are reflected in our spoken word. and then they are reflected in the written word, that is, the written word for the greek is a kind of degradation in plato the same thing in phaedrya, yes, when he says that he himself

also comes up with such a near-egyptian myth in which it is said that those who believe that writing helps memory are actually mistaken, writing kills memory, yes in this sense here plato and aristotle, they are as if on the border of oral culture and later written culture, but for me the final turn to writing. such, not even the hellenistic era, but a little later, that is, this is the beginning of the first millennium, when the reorientation of this entire mediterranean roman-greek, roman-hellenistic culture actually occurs, a reorientation to the east occurs, that's when philosophy begins to transform from oral discussions into a commentary on the text, yes, that's the subsequent, as if starting from the first century ad, the main genre of our era, the main genre of philosophical literature, the most...

the article is understandable for its circle, but when we talk about gaining knowledge students, of course, classes directly with them, manual classes, yes with students, reading texts, the same, such reading of texts, which would not constantly you do not correct students, together with them you work on the text, this is the thing from which they receive most, maybe even not knowledge, but the ability to work skills to philosophical work, it seems to me plato also spoke about this, in this from this point of view. right, let's talk a little about the academy, when i read in losyev, what the academy looked like, i someone asked where, where did alexey fyodorovich know at all, how she, how she looked, but

i don’t remember who told me, alexey fyodorovich could allow himself this description, but in fact this is also the beginning, yes , also the creation of an educational institution, of course not like now, but nevertheless, i myself believe that the platonic academy is rather a kind of community of people around plato, which, as it were... interacted, that is, i do not believe that lectures were given there, i do not believe that these classes were subordinated some kind of educational program, well, there was some kind of charter there, where it said that it was actually religious, these are all attempts by later philologists to guess, and what it was, and there are very different, very different versions, someone suggests that it was a political union, someone, for example, a velomovets, he once wrote about the fact that it was, well, like, a faculty established to serve the muses, well, these are again our attempts to find some kind of label that can be attached to it, but it seems to me that it was more

amorphous, which is still called quite normal for the culture of that time, education, that's where plato, as a person outstanding in intellectual relations, and who proposed this new, i would call it that, logical-mathematical program for updating knowledge and... and morality, he was surrounded by people who, for one reason or another, this program was close to, that is, plato, he is still in what, as it were, his significance, he was a propagandist, a popularizer, a participant in that scientific revolution that was taking place then, the scientific revolution was colossal, because the astronomers of the school of archytas, they actually showed that what happens in the sky, this healing of the stars and the movement of the planets in the sun along the ecliptic, it does not happen randomly, like...

the liberation of the soul, the liberation of man, yes, here in the academy, actually, there arose, as if

plato was joined by those who... this is the monthly pen, yes, which, where they deliver solemn philosophical speeches, yes, but all this was further, and with plato it is rather this kind of live communication, in my opinion, platonic the academy, of course, is a kind of, so to speak, intellectual club, also again with modern languages, and it may have been more of a searching intellectual club than a dogmatic one, but it is still a teacher-student relationship, or a relationship of equal interlocutors or...

i think that it was a mixed situation, because a student is not necessarily one who completely copies the clothes, style of speaking, intonation of the teacher, on the contrary, like aristotle, he can completely contradict the teacher to speak, but several centuries will pass, platonists average him platonists his incorporate the teaching of the teacher, and therefore yes, the academy really was exactly such a situation, but within its framework programs were formed all the same, at least hypothetically, the same program, this is what needs to be taught to guards in the state, yes these mathematical sciences and so on. these same programs, then they receive their expression, partly, partly in other philosophical schools, perhaps, to a greater extent at the moment when philosophy social sciences became a socially significant value, and this is the era of hellenism, this is alexandria, musion, this is the support of the rulers, something that the democratic society of the finns did not support, so i think that in this sense it is really a transitional moment, there was simply no such thing, there was no musion in plato's time, which he could imitate, he himself created something that was then realized in this version.

a construction site, one of the builders accidentally falls backwards from a great height, and his body is strung on this reinforcement. what what happened next, how did they save the man and who did it? this and much more in the program it's great to live. tomorrow on the first. doctor of philosophy, dmitry bugay, doctor of philosophy roman svetlov, i am vladimir ligoyda, we have gathered our thoughts about the great philosopher plato, we continue: plato and russian culture, not russian philosophy, only, although, probably, first of all, but russian culture, how he is read by russian culture, yes, what is the first thing to pay attention to here, well, besides the fact that in an explicit form, as far as i understand, plato, even in russian philosophy appears very late, yes, that is, somewhere at the beginning of the 19th century, yes, probably, although

actually lomonosov already... says that maybe his own platos and quick-witted newtons, well, this is a fascinating, very broad topic, of course, yes, where a good historian of russian philosophy can say a lot, because acquaintance with some aspects of plato's thought was certainly in russia from the very beginning, because translating one way or another patristic literature and translating all sorts of collections sayings. one way or another, russian culture came into contact with plato, but for a very long time, but this, by the way, here, we are not very different from the west, yes , a certain period of this has passed, as until the texts themselves began to circulate, yes, in the west, too, from all of plato, only a couple of dialogues were known for a very long time, only there, starting from the 13th-14th centuries

, the process began. again, i will not , this is a very interesting history of research into various interactions of certain platonic texts and old russian culture, but if we take a later time, where it is more clear how things are, in a sense, at the end of the 18th century, russia was even, i would say, ahead of the rest of the world, because russian plato began to appear in russia even before the translation of the german schleiermacher, before the french translation of cousin, and by the way, it is very good in terms of language, in this sense, a very good application was made, and quite a lot of plato was translated by these people, these girls, these priests, and this is very, from my point of view, this is very good, and as a first translation - this is generally an excellent experience, but naturally, again russian plato, here the understanding of plato arises in the 19th

century and moreover in the context. again this interaction of russia and europe, that is, it arises in interaction with, first of all , with the reception of hegelian philosophy, for hegel plato is the most important figure, naturally. those who read hegel here, here all our, as it were, all our hegelians of one or another direction, they were familiar with hegel's assessment of plato, his dialectic, or those who are not, not accepted hegel's philosophy, they were more inclined to schleirmacher, yes, again, interest in plato is shown by the fact that in the forties a new complete translation of plato by professor karpov begins to come out, i don't really like this translation, but at the same time karpov... he knows german scientific literature very well, he reproduces well the comments of stahlbaum, the main commentator on plato from the germans, of that time, yes, but from my point of view, the real reception

of plato as plato, of course, begins with vladimir solovyov, yes, from his translations of plato and from his life drama of plato, so you add something, that's exactly it. in quotes of course yes, such a latin century it arose in many ways under the culture under the influence of western well aristotelian culture happens yes indeed was that very one. translation of the 18th century, unfortunately, unfinished, very interesting, but a very important thing happens in the 19th century, it seems to me that one of the reasons for this thing, i imagine that one of the reasons for this thing is connected with our self-determination in relation to, who are we europe or something else, then

it turns out that plato, it turns out, can be read in such a way that he can be those very fragments of byzantinism, well , metaphorically speaking, which coals on our soil completely unnoticed by us, the fascination with plato becomes. very deep, in many ways thanks to the translation of karpov and the appeal to him of our great first persons, the first philosophers, and the most curious thing, with which i want to conclude this story, about 25 years ago i participated in the compilation of ontology, the russian way, the passage of the counter plato, it needs to be redone, it needs to be improved, it came out, 25 years have passed, until now natology about aristotle is conducting a counter, although maybe at the cellular level aristotle gave more to russia in the 18-17th century, i know now.

in this project, what plot line would you , if you were asked to participate in, offered to put it as a basis? well, the simplest option, especially if you shoot it in russia, then of course this is solovyov's life drama of plato, maybe this is plato's life drama, this is the story of collapse, of an idealist. i myself would i went the other way and would rather depict plato's life in his relations with here around sicily, first of all his relations with dion, that is, this is his central friendship of his whole life, i would show how an intellectual personality, she, her as if life motivation is not only as if spiritual, cultural, ideological, but also personally.

we gathered our thoughts about the great greek philosopher plato, thank you for being with us, this and other issues of the podcast gathered our thoughts, you can find on official pages of the project podcast lab. dear friends, we are on the air of the podcast of the creative industry, or rather a special edition of the podcast of the creative industry, dedicated to the just held tenth anniversary international cultural forum. with you

is roman karmanov, ceo of the presidential fund for cultural initiatives, our guest today is the minister of culture of the russian federation, olga borisovna lyubimova. olga borisovna, hello, hello, the first question, probably for many who are not quite. happened, this concerns not only our viewers, this concerns many people who constantly ask me why in our time, a cultural forum, it has not been there for some time and...

and 80 countries, in such a difficult situation, from logistics to politics, it would seem that in the twelfth year, now it is 1300 people, all the conditions were created by our non-friends, so that in st. petersburg in 2024 there will be no cultural forum, in this sense it is incredibly important that despite everything, our friends and colleagues from the brics countries, from countries of the shos, from...

this whole cancel culture, if you look at the repertoires of european, well, iconic theaters, i can give as an example lascala with the repertoire of boris godunov, a few days ago a completely triumphant tour in japan, eldar abdrazakov, where well , really hundreds of people, fans together with ricardo moutet and with the maestro eldar abdorazzakov performed, and people in crowds, you look at this video pictures, you understand perfectly well how they missed... our amazing musicians, our wonderful artists,

yes, indeed, our cinema, for example, does not have the opportunity now to present its works at the largest film festivals, and they will not accept us now with such an agenda, political, ethical, moral, ideological, it was very important for us to gather in st. petersburg as part of the communication on the line of cinematography, to discuss the national cinematography that exists in the largest countries. because the largest economy, cinematography, as a creative industry in the world is china, and not the united states, our chinese friends, of course, in huge numbers they came to work with us in st. petersburg these 4 days, our partners india, with its huge bollywood, south africa and the cis countries, where we are connected by our common gosfilmopond, our common golden soviet filmote. the name of the forum sounds... the word sovereign, sovereign culture, what are

the expectations of the countries that come, they come to see our culture, to learn about it or to show their own or in search of an answer, how to build now after, as our president says, the era of vulgar globalism is over, they are all in search or restoration of their cultural code, that's what they come with, you know, on the one hand, yes, and it sounded, we had one session very...

the country did for my country, i will never forget it, these words are worth a lot at that moment, yes, on the one hand, on the other hand, he thanked the st. petersburg forum of introduced cultures for the fact that... that he has the opportunity to meet a huge number of his colleagues, this is a forum that unites cultures, where new films, new productions, opportunities appear tours, the fact that st. petersburg in such a situation presents this opportunity, it is incredibly important, there on the site we

had a small but meaningful dialogue with konstantin lvovich ernst and he said that now there is a trend that the cis countries, they have somehow turned towards our film market, and i actually see this simply by the number of trips that v. geek has, for example, and so on, this is connected with something, also to a return to one's roots, in general , it must be said that in russia creative education students from 103 countries receive it, it is clear that they are not only friendly, we are glad to all talented children who study with us, these are traditions that since soviet times, you know, even in tsarist russia, children from different countries got into our corpses, into our ballet schools, now our colleagues from the cis countries are returning to the topic of national cinema, firstly, everything is stored conditionally in the state film fund, you understand, there is no such azerbaijani, no

such georgian, no such abkhazian or belarusian film that we carefully do not preserved and not digitized, as well as their native, this is our native and there is, we have a common school, you come to baku, they tell you: here the diamond arm was filmed, no, no, no, a little to the right, here, you understand, here it was filmed, of course, everyone takes pictures, regardless of age, and from a variety of cis countries they do it, remembering nikulin and also in fact we talk with our colleagues who are very interested in joint production, there is a great shortage of specialists. there is a great shortage of operators, directors, makeup artists, costume designers, in this sense you started working on national cinematography earlier, also to the sound of whistles, as you remember, also with stories about why raise all this at all, there are wonderful american films, russian cinemas live well on them, what

can you do, let there be five famous directors, they will make some film of their own once every three years, take it to festivals, show it and... and that's enough, yes, in fact, the work of the film fund led to the development institute the internet, of course, because a huge number of tv series are of a completely different quality, i can tell you more, in this sense we are such a homeland of elephants that even in cinema, and the level that tv series set influenced the level of full -length films, that is, all over the world, our tv series, of course, because our tv series have changed, i'll tell you, it worked. that's how it worked, because when your tv series are so professionally and qualitatively made, well, i'll say this about the trends there, say, five years ago, we have art-house cinema and even our blockbusters finally started to be equal to russian tv series at some point, which really became of a completely

different quality, if we talk of course about how our cinema is developing and the fact that 32 countries accepted us at roskino last year.