a lot, it's really cool, and i think that you are of course lucky, yes, to be the heirs of this person, of this family, and what a joy it is for you to deal with these letters, these archives, because really your book is true for me, i have read many different books, i have written many documentary books, i have done many things in general, i partly consider myself an expert in this field, but what you have done, what you have dug so deep, seen so...

in general it is not important, but this is our life, and i'm not ashamed, that's how it is. lev nikolaevich, coincided with the heyday, or rather with the beginning of the heyday of the era of cinema, we know that many of his works were filmed many times, there is the same anna karenina, what is your attitude to cinema, here is italian neorealism, i don't know, soviet cinema, russian cinema, are you interested in this?

did you like it there is a questionnaire that proust asked his guests, it turns out that there is a questionnaire that tatyana lvovna asked her friends, girlfriends, relatives, and there, among other things, yes, there were questions that we now want to ask you to answer them. the first question is: what is your goal in life?

both, no, and why should you choose? you must be able to love, but in such a way as not to demand that you, not to demand too much, that you too be loved, such a question in continuation, and to submit or to be submitted to, neither one nor the other, also very tolstoyan, freedom, yes, but it seems to me that this is also a difference in time, tatyana lvovna could ask such a question, and her...

guests fekla tolstaya and marta albertini, respectively, great-great-granddaughter and great-granddaughter of lev

nikolaevich tolstoy. yes, and i also want to say, dear friends, that the full version of our podcast will definitely be on the website of the first channel 1tv.ru in our social networks. hello everyone who watches and listens to us, with you is the podcast schrödinger's cat, and i am its host, science journalist, grigory tarasevich. today our guest is katerina nikolaevna polevanova, professor, doctor of psychological sciences, scientific director of the center for the study of modern childhood, higher school of economics, and we will talk about modern childhood. hello, about modern childhood. let's ask the question right away, how does a modern child differ from

a non-modern one, the one that was 50 years ago or 30 or 130, so let's divide, how do children differ from children and how does childhood differ from childhood, because if we talk about children, then they, relatively speaking, the laws of their development, apparently have not changed, neither in 50, nor in 100 years, the brain has remained the same, yes, that's it... i always prefer to talk specifically about the change in childhood, and what has become different? so, look, 100 years ago, the place where i was born and the family i was born into determined what would happen to me, and the school i went to knew exactly what i would need in 10 years, in this sense adults, smart, children, stupid, adults

make children smarter too, they knew what to teach. is uncertainty determines childhood our life as a whole, that is, the previous model, that i am an adult, i have a beard and glasses, so i am ready to teach any child how to live, how to marinate shashlik, how to marry, how to read books, this the model dies, yes, and is it good or bad?

thank god, a group of girls talked about caesar salad, i really didn't know that it turns out it had nothing to do with the emperor, and in general it turns out it's connected with prohibition, us independence day and other things this dish, i didn't know any of this, somewhere there were some echoes, this is generally normal, i don't want normal, good, bad, yes, then it's normal, because

look, the amount of knowledge in the public sphere 60 years ago. was much less, you definitely should have read master margarita, there, i don’t know, you should have gotten the novy mir magazine, such and such a movie, and so on and so forth, and there were topics for conversation, that is, we all knew what we were talking about, we were in this capsule, well, or bubble, as they say now, and the conversation about where it came from, the word caesar in relation to salad and so on, yes, these are new injections, and we...

what needs to be accepted, listened to, i remember very well how a boy intern began to tell me something about computer games, and i, like i would be interested, he sent me links to articles where it was shown that this was a useful thing, although i doubted it very much then, so to speak, and we discussed it with him, he read it, i hadn’t read it yet, i kind of learned from his words the modern point of view,

then i leafed through these articles, so in this sense i... i don’t understand the essence of the question, you’re talking about such a sick adult who, you know, with difficulty achieved the status of adulthood or, i don’t know, competence, and now he’s terribly afraid of spilling it, i seems to be an optimist, because if you look at adults, every adult knows how to study properly, what to read, where to go, today we are humanity, well, that means, especially europe, the north atlantic and so on. we give birth later, we give birth less, the general discourse forces us to accept enormous responsibility, yes, the so-called intensive parenting, which assumes... that literally from every sneeze of mine as a parent depends the future happiness of this very child, therefore, it means that the mother is always in this bubble

modern theories, she answers terribly, yes, she has such an increased responsibility, they expect her to be such and such, to be an intelligence officer and so on, well, this is dad from dad too, and this increases the significance of any question that a child asks and the significance of the answer that an adult gives. here, probably, the topic really arises, and i will tell him now how it will affect him, in 20 years, so to speak, will it not cause him, i don’t know, some kind of dysfunction? let's go back to training, i will ask you to show it on the screen now one picture, i like it very much, it is the so-called dale pyramid, scientists criticize it, just like the oil pyramid is criticized, it is clear that this is a very simplified scheme, but the main idea is what, at the top is that amount.

but in fact we just don't do such studies, but we had some work some time ago about project activities and there , of course, everything happens completely differently, another aspect, it is kind of close to your picture, i would say, it is about emotion, because our training in it is emasculated emotion, we don't have emotion in our school, it's strange if a child experiences some emotions, at the same time, if you participate in...

here's another topic i can throw in myself, look, learning is a probabilistic process, we cannot guarantee that after conducting a lesson, we got such and such a result, we increased the probability of achieving this result, therefore this pyramid that we discussed is the probability that if i really try to teach you, and what does it mean i'm trying to teach you, you ask me questions, you don't understand, i make up some bypasses so that... to convey to you and some workarounds, that is, i begin with my knowledge somehow, as if , to work seriously so that it will be invested in you, after all, well, between 10% 90

the difference is very big, in the family, at school is there a place where the child can study? some time ago, i will not retell the family situation, well, in short, a thirteen-year-old boy tried to tell his mother and me the content of the game he plays, we were wildly bored. writes, and he produces a lot of text, and he perceives a lot of text, but it 's not, childhood, adolescence, youth, no, well, i still have a hypothesis, it differs from

the generally accepted one, that schoolchildren's passion for correspondence is a wildly useful thing, because children write, approximately as in pushkin's time, and not as in our time, when their relationships, their position depend on the text, on intonation, on correctly placed selected words. among peers, we generally live in a time of textual dawn, no, no, that's it, i agree with everything, i just want to say that if we, for example, about teenagers we talk, yes, then this is a person who needs to find an answer to the question, who am i, he is not interested in h2o, he is not interested in string theory, he is not interested in all this, he is interested in himself in this world, to what extent are we, what gives, this is how i will say, what gives him the opportunity to answer this? the question within the framework of school education or within the framework of interaction with parents, then it becomes significant, then it becomes very worrying, but how can i help him answer

this question? oh well... it's bad at school, it won't work out, not at all, in a family situation you see, he is interested in talking not with his mother, who explains to him, i don’t know, some rules, with his mother, who says that, what she feels, how she treats the situation, mm, why she, i don’t know, does this, and not, and not that, that is, his mother as a living person, not his mother as a set of rules, but his mother as a living person.

the person who controls becomes, he must constantly watch what comes out of his control, but in a computer game all this is there, so it is terribly attractive, really smeared with honey, in a family situation i did my homework, washed my ears, that means i went to kindergarten for my sister, this is the podcast schrödinger's cat, and today we are talking about modern childhood. the rest, what else can teachers and parents do to help a child with this, who am i, to figure it out, in theory the main responsibility of the school, no, that means there is such a concept as parental involvement, and this concerns the school, just, this is what we really researched, well, since the sixties it has been shown that the higher the involvement parents in the school affairs of the child, the higher

his success, there are people who invest in this, there are people who, as my friend says, outsource the development of the child's education, that is, well, like at school, i don't know, to tutors and so on, but city parents are very much involved in the organization of educational spaces in general, yes, they will come and check the teacher 10 times, but still this is a little aside from the question of how to help a child, especially a teenager, to understand the most important thing, who he is, in what place,

well, it's like variety in food, after all, there's sweet, there's bitter, well, after all , you can just watch a cartoon, or you can watch a cartoon and discuss what the parent went through, what the teacher went through, what the child went through? i would say that yes, all this can be done, but i would still like to do it with in response to the child's submission, you asked me and i am ready to answer you, this readiness, there is such an english word, it is somehow poorly translated into russian with a different

meaning.

when they started asking these little ones what they saw what this cartoon is about, i learned absolutely unexpected things, well, for example, we watch carlson, i was sure that it was a funny children's cartoon. and carlson is a projection of a child's fear of his old age, i did n't even think about it, well, because they were not asked in the format, answer, as you understood, list the main characters, let's think together, i

'm honest, i'm interested, look, i don't agree, that's why, i really like this story, and it's a wonderful experience, it's wonderful, but still in this so, uh... so, i'm such an adult, i took it, they would n't even think about who carlson is, and i asked them a question, and i drew them into this conversation, that is, here, after all , this primacy of an adult is also present, somehow it seems to me, that's why let's put a tick here, two words, it means that in an industrial society a person must prepare for a profession, and then implement this profession all his life, where he prepares is childhood, where he implements is adulthood, if the one who has implemented says: here you go to teachers, teachers are always needed, no matter what happens there and so on and so forth, that is, he imposes some trajectories, what is happening today, economic instability, i don’t know,

there are all sorts of crises, this is transitivity, a smart word and so on, all this leads to the fact that it is impossible to divide life into preparation and implementation, we are always preparing and implementing, therefore the division into an adult and a child is invalid. therefore the primacy of an adult, proposals from an adult and so on, this is a good thing, but it is still a counter process, that is, there was such a smart person, he wrote a book called the disappearance of childhood, that's what i 'm talking about now, if an adult child cannot, as if they cannot, well, there is no dividing feature, then we are all people and we all talk from the point of view of an adult with the point of view of a child, well, some kind of good world, where we are all people, regardless of whether we are adults...

from the search for our identity we move on to the search for our authenticity, that is, identity - this means that i am a child equal child, i am an adult equal to an adult, i am a woman equal to a woman, so to speak, and so on, and the search for authenticity is equality to oneself, that is, i am what i am , i am not a child, not an adult, not tall, not thin, no, i am simply me, this affirmation of my self, it, in fact, appears in the modern world, we see this in all sorts of strange figures there, well , such as, as they say, trainers, yes, some steve jobs, a neutral figure,

since he has long been gone, but he could not study, he simply could not study, he was engaged in calligraphy at the university for a lot of money he dropped out after a year and a half, that is, he didn’t want to be, well... here he made a breakthrough, but how does this transition from a child to this me happen in a family at school, it doesn’t happen at school, let everyone throw rotten tomatoes at me now, as they say , it doesn’t happen at school, at school the model, that is, of an adult and a child, it’s very tough, well again industrial society, he needs to be quickly prepared to be released into the world, yes, released into this very labor market, he will provide for himself there. he needs to be quickly to separate, if you want, well, great, but today there is no need for this, today he can do nothing for a long, long time, then come up with some one idea and, for example, get rich or not get rich, of course, yes, far from everyone who could not study, steve jobs and so on, well, and

far from wealth, the only criterion, there is a criterion of simply psychological health, someone, someone will come out as an excellent student and a neurotic, someone, you know, about mental health, it seems that ... as if the period is not the best, we are going through, and i do not i see, frankly speaking, some prospect that now everyone will recover, i am speaking in a broad sense not about some circumstances, like...

economic growth, and today we are talking about school as a place for children's well-being, and if high academic achievements, like... well, harm well-being, then we do not need such high academic achievements, but the topic is very difficult, well, here i am ready to argue, i have had disputes with colleagues, especially related to additional education, because in their view, a teacher of additional education, there is a squeezed one, this is such, well, roughly speaking, an animator, the child should have fun , the child should be happy, win competitions and rejoice, i don’t, well, at least my position, personally, i’m unfortunately

not a scientist, is that the child should experience negative emotions, well, it seems to me that it is normal to experience, including, if the child experiences something, yes, that is , he discovers for himself, he experiences emotion and so on, then this is one story, but if we treat him as an object, get up, go, get up, go out, free, these formulations are fantastic, then it's a different story at...

well, quickly and independently, therefore between the declarations, which i highly approve of, yes, and the real practice there is the head of the teacher and what he really does, and he is focused on obtaining educational results, everything you are talking about, i, authenticity, a living person, a holistic person and so on and so forth, it all comes down to obtaining educational achievements, those that are kind of declared, schools do not have this. for love, for well-being and so on further, schools, well, even remember, there was

such a thing that schools are a mandatory part, yes somewhere there in the figure koteniya, or something called a school, namely the mandatory fulfillment of some of these mandatory ones, and there is the word paideia, that is, here is training, yes , this kind of training from above, and there is the word ludus - this is a game, so we want him to try himself in new circumstances all the time, to try to convince you who karls is.

with the heads of teachers and the heads of parents often, what to change in these heads and how to change, and i think that examples of practice, well, well, what is called advanced training, it seems to me that this is... this is a dead end, well , here i am simply saying, it seems to me, because we do not know what the effect is after a year, what happened the next day after completing advanced training courses, there or... discussion through real projects, through which you also need to learn, you understand, and also through something that they actually do. you mentioned another word that evokes emotions in me, this is the word game. look, well, it seems progressive, here is a schoolchild playing, this is involvement, this is active activity, but

at the same time the game implies the frivolity of the result. and it seems to me that one of the tragedies. of a schoolchild, a teenager, and often already a young person, is that he does not produce any result needed by someone, he solves problems that have a solution, he answers questions that already have answers, he writes term papers or whatever he does there, which get a tick and are put in a box, and i even felt sorry and scared for these people, well, how you try, you work, you don’t sleep at night, your result is of no use to anyone. two questions in what you said, look, there is a theme of the game, the game is a word, i am actually talking about a trial, that is, you need to try to do something, you need to try to find non-standard results, this is one story, productive, responsible actions and readiness to answer

for your actions - this is another story, so remember the wonderful cartoon about one and a half diggers, and what happened there. well, so that we can do on some optimistic note, what a modern child can teach a modern adult, you know, here is a demonstration of another point of view, in that he will fix my computer, god bless him, yes, it's not that i can, i can't, well, if i have a urge, as they say, i 'll learn, well, but m, these are already adults, if you like, yes, since we have this division into a child and an adult, well, life

is gradually canceling it, then these are people with their own point of view, i'm interested in what they think about carlson, i'm interested in what they do, what they kind of...

they rather continue, but tolerance to diversity, that's what i would, that's what i would pay attention to, that's what i notice intuitively, and really, well, tolerance, readiness, to react calmly when a person is different, fortunately in moscow, well and in all of russia, in general there are multinational classes, and i haven't noticed, at least in most cases, any problems with this, and that's normal, but he's like this, i'm like this. he 's like that, he's talkative, he's dark, this light one, this red-haired one, unlike adults, who he should be like this, he should be like this, children are somehow calmer about this relate, and i think, you know, here is the acceptance of such situations, when i don’t know who is right, that is, here...