[♪ music ] >> our producer is here fielding all your life comments and questions. we've had a lot of interest in the online community, and a lot of folks are wondering with the varying degrees of independence means to hawaiians. >> this was a pitch, check out

my screen. she said do a show on hawai'i. you have a lot of stories, the genetically modified seed and here is nicholas, i'm in high school, and after three years of the u.s. history class, not one mention of hawai'i. and then, we get whitewashed version of hawai'i in u.s. schools. but today we're talking to hawaiians on the stream. you, the viewer, are the third host of the show. you drive the discussion as always. drive the live conversation by tweeting at us. >> hawai'i is more than hula paradise which many people imagine it to be. there are high rates of homelessness, poverty and infrastructure. making hawaiians the most under served population in the united states. some are calling for a complete break from the united states. however, the overthrow of the once sovereign hawaiian kingdom

in 1893 means talks of sovereignty tricky and sensitive issue. what is the best interest of native hawaiians and hawai'i in general. here to unpack it all, a filmmaker who has worked on hawai'i issues for decades. and with us a professor, and political scientist in hawaiian studies. thank you for being here. we reached out to several commissioners about the native hawaiian role in effort for federal recognition. for a lot of our views, this is the first time they're hearing anything about it. talk about what it means to be native hawaiian. >> i don't know if i can answer the question of what it means to be native hawaiian. we're such a diverse community because of our history because

of more than a century of u.s. occupation. there are many ethnicities that have become part of the hawaiian experience. i'm hawaiian on my mother's side and irish on my father's side. we're an extremely diverse people but still a people. we're connected genealogically. we're connected genealogically and we're the first indigenous of the hawaiian arc peel go. >> improving the lifestyle of our people. we're the top of all the terrible social economic indicators, the highes high incarceration rates, the highest

homelessness, we're in dire straits. and the reason why we're in dire straits is because of the occupation of the military in the hawaiian islands for over a hundred years. >> amy said drug use found all over the hawaiian islands, racism, and federal aid could help hawaiians, but if they help one group they have to help all of them, and we all know that isn't happening. speak about some of the challenges. look, native hawaiians make up 10%, but 20% live in poverty, and 60% lack health coverage. why are there so inequities. >> if you do a contrast between hawai'i now and th before, the e number of incarceration, hawai'i

had a literacy rate that was universal in the 1990s, but today it's pretty bad. when you look at the social ills it has a direct connection in not being able to control your destiny and to play and survive in a country that we've been reduced to strangers in our own land. >> keanu a lot of people might be listening to this and think, um, this sounds like the stories we hear in the lower 48 regarding american indians, do you draw comparisons to the two? >> the comparisons between the native americans and the native hawaiians are quite distinct in that native hawaiians were nationals of a sovereign state. they were turn subjects but they included non-aboriginal or natives. you have people who were

scottish and irish who were hawaiian subjects. they constituted 82% of the nationals. now we number 20% of the entire population of hawai'i which is predominantly american citizens. if you look at it through the lens of international law, nationality and statehood that's what draws the distinction between hawai'i and native americans. native americans are a nation within the united states, but hawai'i had international relations with the united states of america. why would non-indigenous respect the indigenous population of any place? that's not the policy of the nons in hawai'i. and hawai'i kingdom was exclusive of all nationalities, the united states made obscured the nationalities of hawai'i.

talk about the natives and non-natives. >> i want to comment on one of the comments you just read. the thing that one of the u.s. policies was to divide us by this thing by blood quantum, and that created a situation where hawaiians are separated whether you're 50% blood quantum or less. that's one way to divide and conquer a people. that's one thing that the hawaiian people have in common with the indigenous people of the continent, it was deployed to divide the people into natives who can get land and natives who can't. it's always about controlling the land resources of the people. in hawai'i it's a very strategic place for the united states who views hawai'i, the u.s. government has always viewed hawai'i as a sacrifice zone and a place to build up their military to control from the

pacific. so in that sense we have things in common with other native peoples except geographically we are located in a place that is very strategic for the united states. but they use some of the same policies on us. >> we're going to talk more about the location. also when we come back we'll talk about improving the rights of native hawaiians and the implications of varying degrees of independents. here are some of the stories we're following right now. [♪ music ] [♪ music ]

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[♪ music ] >> welcome back. we're talking about the challenges of native hawaiians and their fight for more autonomy. keanu, i want to go to you. native hawaiians are only one of three indigenous groups in the u.s. and the only one oh not federally recognized. what benefits would federal recognition bring? >> the benefit of federal recognition is the status that the federal government recognizes the sovereignty of the native hawaiians. the problem is if hawai'i is not

part of the united states and occupied, then that federal recognition is nonexistence, if ieven if they do recognize natie hawaiians as a native tribe, it's no different than israel is going to pass a law recognizing palestinians as part of tel aviv j. >> through, but we talk about mainstream hawaiians and mainstream americans and the premise that the u.s. military has illegally occupied hawai'i since 1893. does there need to be more of a mainstream approach of changing hawai'i's autonomy. >> where we are today is tied to what happened. what happened to hawai'i, hawai'i was kidnapped, but treated like it was adopted. there is no adoption papers.

we can't speak as if we're pseudoadopted. you're either adopted orchi or kidnapped. it resonates some hard questions. if i'm not american, what am i, and these are being engaged in the college and high school level. it needs to be taught at the political standpoint. >> you have to get traction on it. it can't just exist in academia if you want it to change. >> this traction not in the federal system is takes place on the international arena. hawai'i has been introduced in the international politics in 2000 when a case was heard in the netherlands. you currently have attorneys who are arguing and presenting evidence in courts in hawai'i

state courts and federal courts, showing that they're illegal, and if they continue they're committing war crimes. these attorneys are filing war crimes complaints in germany and the filipino government. >> we have to bring community in. jay said look, the divide in hawai'i is cultural and embrac embracing self improvement is the only way to change your way of life. >> i've been going there for 13 years for business, one of the things i noticed after the first or second trip the united states has really turned out to be the conquering nation for this little island country. you know, they don't want us there, but at the same time they can't live without us there. it's kind of a sad, sad shape. i'm sad every time i go now. >> i'm going to go wit to you wh that feasibility. >> let me clarify feasibility.

for me it is impossible, it is almost suicidal to not resist what is going on. factin fact, if we remain on ths path of american domination and assimilation, in the course of the process to be americanize us we will disappear from the face of this planet. we have no choice but to resist. >> when you say americanize, when you go to hawai'i there is such a level of assimilation. you don't go and find these separate groups that are politically separate or economically separate. it seems to be an assimilated set of islands. i realize there is a slice of people who are activists and want to see the separation. but when you look at the 1.4 million people in hawai'i how much of an agreement is there is a military occupation, and people want to be separated from the united states. >> we are a minority within our

own homelands. we're roughly about 25% of so-called population within the hawaiian islands at this time. we are a minority. however, that does not erase the fact that we have been resisting this americanization process. yes there, is no place in the world that is as commercialized, missionized, americannizeed as--there is no place in the world that has the effect of retro occupation of u.s. military that you can find in hawai'i. they joke about weapons of mass destruction in the middle east. we know in hawai'i we can find most of the weapons of mass destruction within our islands. it's very clear there is a limitation in regards what kind of resistence we can do. but if we do not fight back, protest what is happening here we will disappear as a people.

if go to waikiki, for example, in the tourist trapped areas, you won't see hawaiians there. but if you go down to the waianae post and see the hundreds of hawaiians who live homeless and in the hawaiian communities you will find people on the rise, people in an awakening and understanding the value of identity and humanity really is the core of providing us the destination and the road back to have true self determination as a people. >> what do you mean by resistence, exactly. how can native hawaiians resist? >> resist through language and education in school. to tell the truth about the history. far too long the falsification of the history and the falsification of the consciousness has put us to sleep. we are awakening to this history. the fact is more and more people are awakening and in the awakening of the consciousness we cannot but help act

politically and those who are giving that oppression are fearful of us as a people. >> this information is quite astonishing and groundbreaking. when you see that the haas is hs not part of the united states, that's a heavy statement. i'm not saying that hawai'i should breakaway from the united states. that's treason. but is hawai'i part of the united states, that's the question, then there is no reason to breakaway. the occupation is the ability to explain what has happened here. the americanization that has taken place, when i say the word americanization it's true that in 1906 there was a plan set up to indoctrinate the students. it ran across every nationality. they obliterated any memory of the hawaiian kingdom as a

country. now that information has been constitutioinstitutionalized whs now fact. >> what is being advocated here and how does it help native hawaiians and hawaiians in general. >> i have to go back to the question you were asking about resistence and what forms that takes, i have made a film where i documented many, many forms of resistence. it's not just educating of the people. it's not just in the revival of language and culture. hawaiians have been take together streets for decades. the media just doesn't cover our stories. as a journalist i've covered this for 13 years, and i've a filed many, many stories on hawaiian resistence. one thing that hawaiians have been resisting and americans no little about or care little about is a mass desecration of our sacred sites and our burial sites which is part and parcel to occupation, particularly with regard to the militarization of

hawai'i. people see these military bases. they don't even realize that what was there before, that these were sacred lands most of the people. this is burial, and impact us spiritually, politically, psychologically, physically, and these are things that people don't want to even discuss. >> back to the point here what is being advocated for, and how does it help hawaiians? >> what is being advocated as you can tell, they're advocating for deoccupation. >> what does that mean? >> i think they can explain that better, particularly keanu. deoccupation, demilitarization, full sovereignty to the hawaiian people i would rather have keanu explain it more clearly but a return to the independence that

the hawaiians had before the u.s. overthrow of 1893 and the subsequent occupation of 1998. >> what does that mean, and demilitarization, does that mean all military leaves? >> i see different phases and different facets. we've been occupied for over a hundred years. it's not something that can occur overnight. >> but occupied by whom? are you suggesting that just the indigenous hawaiians remain? >> oh, no. not at all. in fact, if you understand our history again, as explained, the status of our people was not just so-called or aboriginal hawaiians that mr. part of th we hawaiian kingdom. there were many citizens. >> so who leaves as part of your

deoccupationation? >> let me throw in my part about this regarding occupation. my doctorate dissertation covers expanding and exposing the occupation itself, but deoccupy, how do you go through that process. >> what are you suggesting leave hawai'i? >> the united states military, and the u.s. administration that is up ain up occupying a foreig. in the case of iraq and afghanistan, that was occupation of that country. u.s. administration needs to leave, and that's the process by which deoccupation takes place. that process is regulated by international law. there are doctrines there to follow. but what it seems to be obscuring this issue is american federal law which is limited to u.s. territory in giving the impression that native hawaiians are an indigenous tribe. when you look at it through the lens of the international law,

the international convention, education is very crucial in all of this, not that you need to come up with a political stance. don't come up with a political stance. get educated. if you're going invest $1 million, do your due diligence first. >> we have a lot more to discuss with how realistic these suggestions are. we'll have more questions after the break.

>> we're back discussing it's challenges of native hawaiians as they try to preserve their rights and their culture. and community members tweeting in how important it is to hold on to that history. >> there is tension between the young generation of hawaiians and the older generation. >> look my entire young life as a kid it's a travesty. my best friend's grandma was a pure hawaiian. she went to homeland every day demanding land every day and she got it by force. >> the hawaiian homeland is

really under fire now, and they've run out of money. that's a federal act enacted in 1920, and that has to do with the blood quantum laws. people who are 50% blood could apply for lands under in act. and generations of hawaiians have died on that list, and it's been under fire, and it's been in the news a lot lately because there is a class action lawsuit from older hawaiians who have been on the list for 30 or 40 years trying to get land of their own. it's an absolutely failed project. >> what you're seeing here is with the hawaiian homes act and the problems that are currently taking place, that have been taking place for a while. these are all reactions to an american process that we're now finding is not legal. not to say that it's not legal is one thing. to now say that it's practical is another. but we're start to go live somewhere. we're caught between a rock and a hard place. how do you make these points and the reality of our history yet you still have to live in a

house and survive with a family. >> keanu. >> the question was how real tick. realistic. what is realistic about the situation of our people. we've been under occupation for far too long and the results have been devastating. we have no choice but to resist and struck. just because it's not covered by al jazeera or bbc news or that it doesn't exist. >> or that it's not happening. let me jump in-- >> the resistence of the palestinian people, although under autopsy, although israelis may have the strongest weapons, including nuclear weapons does not mean that they'll resist, yet we see every evening on tv. our people resist, and the saying goes, the strongest swimmers swim in the roughest seas. there is no place in the world that is as military occupied, commercialized, our people still struggle. >> there are other perspectives here that have a pretty strong

voice in hawai'i. people who think that--including former congressman congressman t there are ways to go about this. talk about these other voices. >> there are really only two sides to this, well, there are three sides. there are hawaiians and non-hawaiians who think federal or state recognition that would give hawai'i a nation within a nation status some control over the lands that were the hawai'i kingdom government lands which are ceded lands, so there is that camp. then there are those like keanu, who say this is not going to work for us, and what we need is to gain our independence and exercise to governor ourselves as a people. and then are hawaiians who don't know or don't care.

that's most people. most people are confused by the history, and they don't know quite where they land. >> if i could add in. >> no, i want her to say what she is saying. >> what it comes down to is a conversation between the two sides who know what the issues are. and the hawaiians and non-hawaiians, hawaiians that are prostate and pro federal recognition, they just--they know the truth. they know what's happened. they know their history. they love their people. it's not that they don't. it's that they don't really believe that the united states will ever cease to be an occupying power. >> on that note we have to end the program. we're out of time. thanks to all of our guests for joining us, we appreciate your insight, and between now and tomorrow, waj and i will see you online. [♪ music ]

>> good evening, everyone, welcome to al jazeera and our special coverage of the crisis in syria. tonight president obama is focused on winning support for his proposed attack on syria. >> obama: my credibility is not on the line. the international community's credibility is on the line, and america and congress' credibility is on the line. >> we have a number of new developments on syria to tell