i'm vlf ali velshi see you thenn real money. >> you're in the stream. puerto ricoens, why doesn't the island have statehood. >> my superstar la toya, the briquas, otherwise known as

puerto ricons, what are they saying? >> most active show in some time. israel balderas says, plural majority saying no. however right after that, ladal gedo, october 2012 we said hell no to the political status. clearly this is hitting a lot of buttons. >> puerto rico's commonwealth status has sparked conversation for over 100 years. while puerto ricans are, outright independence and those who advocate becoming the 51st state of the united states. the american principles project which by the way backed statehood explains it this way: >> the fathers of our nation believe that all men are created equal and that every citizen in a political community must be entitled to the same basic rights and freedoms. yet today, the great republic that came about from a rebellion

of a people who refused to be deprived of its basic freedoms as citizens seems intent in holding citizens without their full constitutional and political rights. the issue is actually very simple. the people of puerto rico were granted u.s. citizenship in 1917. however almost 100 years later they cannot vote for the president who may send their children to war and they don't have adequate and proportional representation in congress. even though federal laws apply directly to them. >> so essentially if puerto rico is an island in political limbo. in a vote last november 57% of puerto ricans said they didn't like the political status quo. so is there a way forward? joining us for a hot topic is jose hernandez, the secretary of international affairs for puerto rico's popular democratic party and he favors the status quo.

jose cabrera, puerto rican students association, joings uss for the diasporaic communities, and welcome to all of you. first off, viva puerto rico libra, means long live free puerto rico. a term often used by those who want puerto rican independence. what does that mean to you jose cabrera? >> a free puerto rico to me as an american a u.s. citizen would be for me to have the full spectrum of rights and responsibilities i would have as a u.s. citizen. >> right. and renee what would a free puerto rico mean to you? >> it would be a country that would able to be taken decisions

of its own and governed by its own citizens. >> puerto rico is a commonwealth but many refer to it as a u.s. colony. jose, go to you. >> to me a free puerto rico is a puerto rico that has the status that has the puerto ricans in a fair and transparent choose, not what was conducted in the last plebiscite. so the people of puerto rico have preferred commonwealth and the people who are against commonwealth can only try to hide that reality by creating all kinds of convoluted processes and i guess we'll discuss that in the next half hour. >> all right lynette what is a free puerto rico to you? >> you know, there is -- there's definitely the question on political autonomy and in a way you know, that's important for a free puerto rico. but to most puerto ricans free

puerto rico also means puerto rico free from a lot of the problems that are facing the island right now. including economic problems, and problems of education and even corruption in the government. so to me, the question of the status and whether -- and how it addresses those really big and real issues, are really what are going to determine whether puerto ricans are free or not. >> all right la toya, a lot of our free puerto ricans are having responses what are they saying? >> in the first place, our branch conversation you can look at as main an online hangout. megan says, maintaining puerto rico as a colony especially u.s. companies and the military can use the island without any responsibility or accountability. however, juan auguste marquez

told me when alaska and hawaii became states, the idea was that there be a balance between a democratic state and a republican state. there is a lot of politics that go into what happens when we create a state. interested to hear what goes on particularly from jose cabrera, what is your idea of the politics and why puerto ricans may be ambivalent on this? >> the politics on the national level or just the local? >> let's look at it from the local level, there seems to be dissent from islanders. >> this is an issue that has schooled our island for as you can imagine 100 years, it is a topic that has been hashed over, over time. the system in puerto rico has been very hard to change it. however we were able last year to have a vote where we rejected the territory status and the majority voted for statehood. we have an opportunity now to

change the situation and move forward with the status issue towards a final resolution. >> jose you said 61% chose statehood but what's interesting is nearly 500,000 people left the question blank when deciding about puerto rico's future. jose hernandez, why the ambivalence here? >> the actual stated number was 44%. you cannot ignore half a million blank votes, why did those blank votes occur? you have introduced me as someone who has favored the commonwealth option. the first question was, do you agree that puerto rico should continue its current form of territorial status? even those like me who believe in the commonwealth status believe it has to be modified has to be enhanced. >> the commonwealth was actually on the first question

mr. hernandez. it's the territory. commonwealth, territorial status. >> then you are problem offing my point? why did you call it its own name, do you wish to preserve the commonwealth status the result wrote have been different. if you want to continue in the present form -- >> the present form in puerto rico -- >> jose hernandez, i know that renee wasn't to say something. >> i'm scoir, we're speaking as though puerto ricans had a low i.q. and we're not smart people. and didn't know the first question was about current status. that's without interpretation or change. on the other hand, nobody is know what the better commonwealth is, i don't know what is a better commonwealth. i have not seen a concrete plan of a better commonwealth.

the puerto ricans voted against the actual status, i think that's clear. and going around it is feeding a fantasy. we have to realize that. the second is that we have to -- >> hold that thought guys, hold that thought. obviously we got a lot more to talk about that just got started. first of all, do marines feel like second class citizens, send your tweets on that, here are some tren trending hashtags.

>> if sphawts of puerto rico -- the status of puerto rico, the political status of puerto rico is not a political issue, it is a human rights issue. >> do we get to choose the highest status, the answer is no. >> my answer would be no. >> for thousands of puerto ricans the political limbo makes them feel like second class citizens. la toya what are they saying? >> definitely a lot of people are wondering why and at what

point does the citizenship actually takes place and if so what actually happens? there's a lot of conversation about what congress can also do. so we are looking at user autumn, who sweets and says president obama has tried but the are status territory has been rejeghted as a tax hike for the middle class. and still other users have noted there isn't really a coherent narrative and puerto rico needs to figure out what's going on as far as statehood. here is a video. >> we have congress commenting on the issue every time, ignoring the ideologic entrenchment for 150 years, and rely on that as a base for theirs existence. needing to solve the issue, a majority of the puerto ricans rejected the status quo. and the independence of puerto rico as the next state of the

union. >> what roles to congress and president obama play in terms of moving this forward? >> puerto ricans will dictate what they want but ultimately it will be the president and congress who will determine whether they want to accept puerto rico as a state or not. so they are very, very important in the conversation. and you know something that the proponents of both sides of the issues haven't necessarily focused on is allow the puerto rican community in the united states will provide the political muscle to move congress towards action. so beyond the conversation that's happening in the island, we definitely need to keep in mind the puerto ricans in the united states will be the ones that will push congress into action. >> well, lynette, you're talking about the puerto rican population in the united states. who is the true voice and who

talks with legitimate meas, jose what is your take on that? >> will first of all barack obama has done something very important. he has offered a process where the doj is a participant in validating the option he. i mean one of the charges again the enhanced commonwealth position that people like me hold is statehooders and pro-independence propose something that is not constitutionally viable. we are willing to stick that with the doj and proposal an enhanced commonwealth proposition, so when people vote they will know that the department of justice has considered it. the state holders should do the same thing there are transition issues there there are language issues there they should sit down with the doj and once the doj has decided, let's just vote, but everybody on the same ballot not this weird structure that they did last november

and -- >> i'm going to move on to jose cabrera as the response. is that the plejt voice and are representation of the puerto ricans? >> you mean the puerto ricans on the mainland? the puerto ricans on the mainland many of them were born in puerto rico and they have a very important role to play in terms of resolving the status conflict we have here. they have something we don't have, they have power in congress. they can elect senators, they can elect representatives and they have presidential power. they can make sure their voice is heard and they can get their representatives to move the ball on the issue of puerto rico and to get a resolution on this conflict. >> all right la toya what does your community say? >> the community is are torn in reference to identity as well, statehood would that lead to assimilation. george notes what identity?

it's already been lost. my grandparents pr was a whole different peep, the comeblacios blew it. isn't it about losing identity and blending cultures? over on facebook ray tito roman notes, stay as a commonwealth, the u.s. has taken from the island, since they planted their flag, they have taken it all prospect now renee as you're an advocate for independence do you feel these claims that our community is making have any merit? >> i believe that um -- well first of all if a puerto rican were to leave puerto rico, and become an immigrant to puerto rico he is still but on the identity of puerto ricans being lost become a state i'm not really quite sure of that. i think puerto ricans have held out for the last hundred years i will say hopsly we have kept our culture.

but the real question is, is the united states going to be willing to accept a people into their nation that are different in culture that cherish their culture every time there's a cultural event basketball game, day before yesterday we had the basketball, people rallied around the puerto rican flag, nobody rallies around the american flag, nobody does. even though that is the status right now. >> and that's not necessarily different for people from different states. you know i've lived in the united states for 11 years. and you can go to a place like new orleans or you can go to texas or you go to california and each one of them have their own culture and their own identity. but that doesn't change, you know, because they're members of the mainland. so i get frustrated when the conversation is framed on the issue, own identity when the conversation should really be framed on issues that really matter to the island, like you

know, who can really solve the real problems like crime and economic issues and government corruption. to me, whichever alternative addresses those issues best, that's what the right answer should be. >> not talking about the economy, i want to bring in these stats real quick. puerto rico has 13.5% unemployment, 37.5% of the residents live behind the poverty line. latin america ghetto if it becomes the 51st state. what is your response to that? >> the governor has a knack of insulting the puerto rican people. whether we're a state in the future or whether the people choose independence. i think all the trials and tribulations that we have experienced in the island, it hasn't occurred under statehood, it has occurred under the

current status. >> go to detroit. >> you live here mr. hernandez. you know what i'm talking about. >> the situation in puerto rico economically is not -- it's approaching detroit, and the issue of the status, in might or might not be a factor in there, you know. >> it is. >> it is a factor. >> even the recognized as such in 2011 -- >> two people speak at once. renee chime in. >> it is a factor, it is definitely a factor. because of our status we do not have right now the tools necessary to improve our economy, to make trade agreements. we are subject to the u.s. merchant marine and we have to pay more than other countries for the goods and services that are coming the puerto rico. that is a fact. and if we keep saying that status does not have to do with our economic situation, we are just once again liefg a --

>> aren't you worried about sustainability? with these numbers, if puerto rico does gain independence how will it sustain itself economically with the united states? >> if we become independent we will actually have the tools that are actually necessary to address these issues. i think that actually our talent right now is leaving our country because of the current status quo. we have become the quarry of others facing the united states for our talent. right now the puerto ricans that could change this exea our ceos our managers are people who are giving all their efforts to the united states who are not here because of the current status quo because there are the economic openings to be able to contribute to our island. >> we'll get back to it, we have to take a quick break. but if puerto rico were to become the 51st state what would the u.s. flag look like? where would that extra star go? send us your thoughts and keep tweeting us, because you could see your avenu avatar on our wa.

>> ♪ ♪ >> puerto rico! >> all right, welcome back. so what would the united states flag look like if puerto rico became the 51st state? we took a stab at it. here are some options, look at that it's a constellation, very aesthetically pretty. it's a star fish, awesome. pr, very subtle la toya. awesome. >> we do not want secession. >> the online community is buzzing, what are they saying? >> a lot of folks are looking at what's the perception of puerto rico becoming a state, the majority of americans don't care either way, we're cool, just keeping the flag looking good ha ha. we're not sure we can hold up on that promise. but there's also a concern about the economic aspects of what

puerto rico is bringing to the united states. a lot of commenters are weighing in on that. puerto rico has toi toyed with statehood for years. jose hernandez what do you feel about that comment? >> i agree with that absolutely. puerto rico has too low a tax base. it could not stand stacking federal taxes on top of our economy. i can see what that person is staying. what are we bringing to the united states? it would bring federal funding to puerto rico and a lot of people wouldn't pay federal taxation. so therefore, bringing anything to the table, we're trying to take from the table. we believe, in the commonwealth aside that we have to keep our fiscal autonomy and if we lose that we lose our only competitive edge and that's why you see a lot of people who have

never embracethe statehood idea -- embraced the statehood idea. >> this question has gone on for years and we're probably not going to solve it i -- tonight. how can we chart a course forward even with all this division? >> immediately i agree with what the president has proposed. i think the reverend up make it clear that the people do not favor the current status. what is unclear is what the alternative should be. and puerto ricans need to figure that out and with the help of the federal government that question can be resolved. but more importantly, i'd like to see politicians in the island and people in the island and the mainland focus on the real issues facing the island, the issue of crime, and so much of the energy and resources of the island have gone into this question of the status as

opposed to what the real issues affecting real puerto ricans every day are, so i'd like to see more focus on that. >> i just want to clarify because the audience isn't aware of this: the question last november was split. the current staws was put on a separate -- status was put on a question and the alternatives was a second question. you can't not tell by looking at the results whether commonwealth is still the most favorable alternative. now statehoods are going to say, no we got more than you did on the first question. but the people who vote yes on the first question were instructed to vote on the second question. if blazio would have submitted to that question he would have been incorrect. >> that is incorrect the first question was very clear. the first question was very clear. do you want to keep the current status quo that we have that's a territory and 54% of the people

voted and rejected the territory status. that means the people of puerto rico have withdrawn their consent of being governed as a commonwealth. that destroys the consent. the point is we had an opportunity now to move the ball in congress because the people of puerto rico do not want to continue under a territory status. that had never before and that changes things. >> hold on, was this rene speaking? >> that was jose cabrera. rene i want to get you in, we have 90 seconds left. what is the way forward if possible? >> i think at this point on the issue of status, i think, there has to be a referendum or a constitutional assembly or some sort of mechanism that can actually define our current status and the choices we sent to the people have to be clear. we cannot present fantasies like enhanced commonwealths or things

that have not been defined, you know? i think the two ways are either statehood or independence. ing in else -- anything else is degrading. the current status we have now basically is repugnant at this point, it is. >> to you but it is up to the people of puerto rico and how can the guy who got 4% on that plebiscite say he's still in the game for the commonwealth people who got over 40% of the vote should be disqualified. >> we have 15 section. >> i think there needs to be agreement that there is better definition of what these option he are. definitely the referendum didn't bring that clarity. >> thanks, the stream conversation keeps on going. we'll see you online.

>> good evening everyone, welcome to al jazeera. i'm john siegenthaler in new york. >> he has committed many crimes against humanity. >> caught on open mic, the u.n. secretary general, comments about syria, will confirm that chemical weapons will be used. another day to solve their differences on syria but using military force to back up an agreement may now be off the table. search and rescue, 80 people unaccounted for in colorado's flash flooding and the number of dead is climbing.