>> hi, i'm lisa fletcher. do moms have all of the power in family court? dads are making a case for equal treatment. today we're talking about a father's rights. so, what exactly is the fathers rights movement? it has come up recently in the hotly contested virginia gubernatorial race. but it has been around for a while. help and women who advocate for

equal rights for dads in custody and child support. >> 24 million children, one out of every three. >> 71% of pregnant teenagers come from fatherless homes. >> but critics say its positions are bad for women and mothers, leaving some to ask if the father's rights movement is standing up for dads at the expense of moms. coming in and watching the father's rights movement is really active on social media. >> that includes time with the child, and not just financial support. and stephanie said there are stereotypes, that mothers belong to their kids, may affect dads, and we have to step up. fathers rights movement should account greater responsibility for fathers.

i am a father and have lost everything. the system is broken, and we need to be heard. we want to hear from you. you are the third host of the show and all of your comments drive the discussions. >> here to break down the fathers rights movement is randy, and the author of the new book, divorce, protect yourself, your kid and your future. on skype, michelle weldon, a journalist and author, a single mother with three boys. and todd bonham, a fathers rights advocate and author of the book, confessions of a deadbeat dad. and with us tonight, thomas figler, a divorced party and with a facebook page. thomas, i'm sure that a lot of our viewers, it's the first time they have heard of this, and what's it about. >> it's about equality in

parenting, and we're looking to have an equal right in our children's lives much we heard obama say earlier this year, fathers need to step up to the plate. and too often, we're not allowed to step up to the plate. we're kept from our children and being an involved parent. >> i'm sure that the fathers rights movement has a lot of objectives, and what's the main goal of the movement? >> to say that you want to be involved. a lot of them are tired of being told to be involved and tired of hearing all of the negative effects on children, so we want to do exactly what the public is demanding that we do, but it's too difficult to get around a lot of hurdles. >> speaking of hurdles, randy, you represent moms and dads, and do you find that the family court system is really in favor of moms more often than dads? >> it comes down to who is the judge in that particular case. i think historically, moms raise

children and dads typically work. and that's evaporating. in the future, we'll see more dads being primary custodian, and more custody rights. i don't know if changing the law is going to do t. but educating judges is probably going to be really helpful. >> so real quick, so people understand the framework here, talk about the process when parents are going through divorce, and there's a child or children involved, what is the process? >> well, the process is, first of all, half of the people who go through divorce can't afford a lawyer, and they're trying to figure it out on their own, and by the time they figure it out, they're stuck with this set of rules. let me explain like this. if you are married and you decide to take your child to disney world and your husband doesn't, you both win, and the problem is after divorce, there are rules, and the mom can set

the rules, and moms, if they're angry at dad and if they have vengeance, they can say, we're sticking to the rule that the judge hut into place. that doesn't happen in marriage, but only after divorce. that's where problems come up. people who are angry hold back by taking the kid from the other side and saying, monday, tuesday and wednesday is my day. and people should try to get along despite what they feel for each other. >> this is a subject that i feel needs to be elevated, there are signs of moms being behind parents. what's best for the child. the gender war for custody has to stop. but for a mom to be pushed away, she has to be the worst unimaginable criminal on earth. and then she still gets a chance. for the father to be pushed away is an allegation of violence. michelle, you've been through this before. do you think the system is

skewed against men? >> no, i don't. i think the system mostly is very fair. and what i would wish for in this father's rights discussion is that we talk about fathers' rights and responsibilities. i thought the anecdote about disney world and vengeance was misplaced and not in the best interest of the children. most of the times, the issues that confront divorced parents are much more grave than a trip to disney world and who is bringing them home and taking them there. it's time to talk about what is in the best interest of the child. and i applaud every one of you who is a good father who steps up to the plate. guests in the audience listening, but i think there are mothers who are not the optimal parent, so i agree there. what we have to do is stop the

vitreal and gender blaming. it's not women blaming fathers and keeping their children away from fathers. >> if i could follow up for a moment. something michelle said that i think is very important, what is in the best interest of the child. and children, and the definitions vary according to what court you're in, and what state you're in. the problem that i have, the people usually making the decision i don't believe have the qualifications to make them. the attorneys and judges are trying to determine what's best for the children of divorce for the next 25 years, and they're not necessarily qualified to make those decisions. so i would like to see more research getting into this issue, and not the psychological site. >> do you think that cultural gender norms play a big factor in this? >> i think that they do, and it

is improving. we cannot expect a lot of these things to change overnight. but you have to think back 40 years, the dad worked and the mom stayed at home. the workforce is changing, and the household dynamics are changing, and some of the older values and gender roles still hold in place, but in the next ten years, we'll start to see if the next generation starts to make some of these decisions, and i think we'll see a lot of change at that time. >> todd made a good point. when two parents can't make a decision, they're fitting the right to make a decision, and they're forcing a judge to make a decision. if you let a judge make a decision, you're going to be stuck with someone who is never going to know all of the details. every judge that i talk to about

custody cases, they would much rather hear a death penalty case than a custody case. the children are innocent. and what they do is and people to go investigate mom and dad and make a report or recommendation to the court. and they say, judge, here's what i heard or learned and felt about this kid in this situation, and that may be based on hearsay and they're not a psychologist. they usually will give the judge a lot of information that may be helpful but these people may have their own baggage, when you let your case go all the way to a judge, you're letting someone else make that decision, so if at all possible. >> a lot of human nature plays into this. and thomas, i want to get to you and your experience some of the thachallenges that you faced in

course that your ex-wife didn't. >> mine involved an allegation of violence, and we were married 13 years, and i filed for divorce, and two days later, i was served with a restraining order. i looked at the allegations in the restraining order, it stated that her and my children were in fear of me. and there were holes punched in all of the walls in our house. i laughed at it. it was outrageous, and my children were 11 years old and i figured that somebody would talk them for a few minutes at least, and somebody would investigate the holes in the walls or something like that because there weren't any, but none of that occurred. the children were immediately removed and that's a temporary restraining order. and i understand that. that had to be pushed out. we were under the original restraining order, and it allowed us to text regarding the

children. this is a very turmoil time and a lot of emotions and so forth. iteched, regarding the children, and i said if you succeed in taking the children from me in this method, i will send child support, but never speak to you again. please wake up, the children need both of us. i was arrested for that. i went to jail. >> because you made contact with her and it was a violation of the restraining order? >> the police were under the impression it was a no contact order and that's why 24th arrested me. the order said that i could text regarding the children, and it was a misinterpretation from the police. and the judge dropped the charges and was very sympathetic, and it was mandatory arrest in these cases, but the worst part about it, it went to a no contact at that

point and i was arrested that weekend that i was supposed to pick my children up. when i got out of jail the following week, i got home to the voice recorder, and i had to hear my baby girl on the phone, just sobbing and begging for her dad to know that he was okay. she didn't know why i didn't pick them up that weekend. and i could hear my ex-wife in the background talking to a friend in normal casual conversation. she was fully aware that my little girl was calling me and at that point i couldn't call to let her mow that i was okay. if i had, i would have gone back to jail. so while that's on the criminal side, on the civil side, on the civil hearing of that restraining order, when that is a preponderance of the evidence, instead of beyond a reasonable doubt. and while that was about the children, the judge decided that that was not quite the context that the original judge had

wanted. and while she found a no act of domestic violence in our 13-year marriage, she did decide that that was an act of domestic violence, and i received a second act by the creation of my facebook page. >> i want to talk about the creation of your facebook page, the founder of fathers rights, which a lot of dads have joined, and the dads are responding to the accusations that they're anti-woman and anti-mom.

>> the u.s. has implied 50/50 custody ask, it's unfair to men. if you're willing to take our money to take care of our children, our children deserve our time. >> welcome back, we're talking about the fathers' rights movement. and a lot of men are demanding equal treatment. >> some fathers rights advocates are chauvinistic bullies. and he says: >> so todd, let's talk about some of these criticisms. the mothers movement online says

that you're fighting for male privilege outside of the marriage. >> male privilege, i don't know. i find it difficult to believe that we're having a hard time because of what we want to do. spend time with our children. we don't hate women, and we don't necessarily even hate our exes, but what we hate is being away from our children and not having a system that supports us in getting that done. i heard a lot of comments in media and research as well that it's a bunch of angry men, and i think that's absolutely true, and it's time that we stop dancing around that bush. we're angry and there's a reason for it. sometimes it's displaced, against a former wife or former spouse, and sometimes against the system. but yes, i believe that rightfully so a lot of men are angry. >> listen to chloe, a video comment. and that's not showing upright now, but moving on real quick,

here we have a facebook page devoted to fathers rights. and this is the page dedicated to fathers everywhere trying to stay with their children. and last month, there were 330 hashtag searches for children's rights, 33 for mothers rights. so social media is a place for fathers to get involved and discussed. thomas, i want to ask you, what have the social media of fathers been saying about this issue? >> mostly, we want equal rights and we want to spend more time with our children. the reason i began the page is a way to vent from the injustices my children and i were suffering. but we started to come to the page, and it was extremely valuable and allowed me to break through the isolation of thinking that i was alone in this, and i wasn't alone, it's quite prevalent and happening in

every city and state in the nation. more and more fathers come daily. we had 300 members in may and now we're up to 5,000. we're a very active page and we support one another. it's very emotional for us, and very painful to have your children taken from you, to be reduced from the a father to a visitor four days a month. >> michelle? >> yes, a couple of things that i wanted to comment on, first, with tomas, the allegations of violence, i wouldn't laugh at any of that or taking any of that lightly on the impact on your children, and the claim that there were holes punched in walls, that would be really easy to prove, and todd, both in the chicago area, you're a professor at de paul and i'm a professor at northwestern, and i feel a certain comradery, but i have to

shudder, confessions of a deadbeat dad. and i have to say, i'm a single parent, my former husband, who was a litigating attorney, did not pay child support for the last nine years, and i put two sons through college, one through graduate school and one in his second year at the university of iowa. >> todd, i would like you to respond to that. why did you choose such a negative stereotype. and are there things going on behind the scenes with men going through divorce that the general public isn't aware of? >> that's exactly what it is. i journaled and wrote 900 handwritten pains, and that book is my journal of my experience. as for the title, on the outside, people would have the

perception that they received the comments that i am a deadbeat. i did not pay child support for five years. for the last two years of my marriage, i was the stay at home dad. after divorce, i went back into the undergrad and took plases for two years, and it prevented me from seeing my children, but in three months, i'll have a ph.d and i'll be able to support them very well. >> congratulations on coming to grips with your responsibility and accountability. >> it's not coming to grips, if you read the book, i'll be happy to hear your comments after that. >> as we all know, there are good dads, bad dads, good moms and bad moms, but do you think that the court should be a level playing field? >> absolutely. and i'm not sure that courts are not gender blind. we hear a lot of men in the

fathers rights movement saying that it's totally skewed towards mom. and i've heard a lot of stories on the other side as well. women shut out and claims against them that they're crazy and they shouldn't be with their children and having their children taken away from them. and i don't know if any of them are good. >> i don't know if any states have a law that states, the law presumes that the mom should have custody and dads are second class citizens. and the question is, what does the judge think, and how do you level the playing field? you can't pass a law -- >> hang on. gang. >> there's no way to pass a law that will apply equally to every case. every case is different. and some moms fight for custody, but they will fight all the way. we need judges to see that in

this case, the child would be better served living with dad or mom? we have to have judges with open minds. >> on that note, the fathers' rights movement is going strong across the country, and where and how it has the most impact. ç]

>> the fathers' rights movement movement should be short supported by everyone, especially mothers. the fathers' rights movement in no way, it benefits the child, but the mothers as well. >> welcome back, and we're talking about fathers rights and the fathers' rights movement. and it's pushing for shared custody after divorce. you are from illinois, and how has that changed things for dads? >> in the last 14 months, there's a group called illinois fathers, and they have done some great legislation. when a custodial parents leaves town, the non-custodial parent must have time with that child.

and it's supposed to provide a ramification for denial of visitation, and we'll see if it eventual gets the impact. but that has come recently. >> a bit of a balancing act, do you want to see laws change? >> absolutely. there are several things that we advocate for. one of the things that the attorney was mentioning. educating the judges is a big thing, but you're left with human error there. and there's a broad range of discussion that is involved with that, and with that can come abuse of discretion. what we would like to see it 50/50 presumption. if it's on the onset, we can do a 50 a 50 presumption, and if there are clear signs of abuse or if the parents don't live in a close geographical location

together, there are factors that can change that. >> our community has solutions real quick. in california: so randy. >> look, i'm a lawyer, and there's no replacement for good advocacy. the judge has to start with a presumption of 50/50. but the children will be better off with a solution, three days with dad and four days with mom, whatever, and you have to evidence the judge. we talked about educating judges a lot. but until the judges get it, think about the movie, kramer versus kramer. anybody who saw the movie doesn't get it. dustin hoffman should have kept

custody of the child because it was in the child's best interest. that may be more affected, because any good judge is going to do what the judge thinks is in the child's best interest. >> and i also think it's important to introduce cultural stability. because i'm going to get hateful comments that are violent and sexual in nature and damming me for just appearing here and speaking my mind. it's an issue surrounded with a lot of vitreal and hate and unnecessary hostility that i wish would go away. >> it's a saying that the best thing a father can do for the

child is to love the child's mother. >> when that's not possible, love can be replaced by respect and civility. >> well said. and what a wonderful note to end this program on. i would like to thank all of our guests. we really appreciate the honest and open discussion tonight. until tomorrow, i will see you.

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