>> welcome to al jazeera. i'm morgan radford. here are the top stories we are following right now. more gunshots have been fired at the westgate mall in nairobi in the last hour. the blast could be heard around the perimeter of the mall, which you can see live. soldiers could be seen running. the kenyan government said the soldiers were in control of the mall and hostages were free. several attackers were american and one a british woman. the somali rebel group al-shabab claimed responsibility. >> the president hassan rouhani was heckled by a group of

protesters at a university. >> they held up signs that red - he is not fit to lead. the somali president has been targeted for as sass nation by al-shabab several times. he met with the kenyan president and extended condolences. >> the vw transporter van, known as the bus, is reaching the end of the road. production will end december 31st. more than 10 million were produced signs it was introduced 63 years ago. thanks for watching. i'm morgan radford. consider this up next.

>> dozens dead, hundreds wounded as members. somali armed group al-shabab, including several americans. stormed the high end westgate mall in kenya. consider this - how do american citizens get involved with a group that commits terrorist attacks, and targeted christians and non-muslims. as part of al jazeera's looks at the cost of health care, we'll look at the key to obamacare - young adults. why would healthy young invincibles want to pay for insurance, when they can just pay a small fine. alien life may or may not have been disorder in the stratosphere. voyager 1 may or may not have left the solar system. you may or may not be able to travel to space. i'm antonio mora, welcome to consider this. officials at kenya's interior ministry tweeted that they believe all hostages had been

released. two or three americans were part of the al-shabab team that started the assault on the westgate mall on saturday afternoon. according to the red cross 62 were killed and 175 injured. kenyan police say three al-shabab fighters were killed. as al jazeera's reporter reports, the attack came at a time when al-shabab seemed to be on the decline. >> eyewitnesss say gunmen shattered for muslims to escape from the mall. a spokesman for al-shabab told al jazeera: >> al-shabab - meaning the youth in arabic, a militant group based in somalia. >> we'll establish somalia rule from africa to chile. >> pledged its allegiance to al

qaeda. >> it was said that it was revenge on kenyan troops who pushed al-shabab out of key places in somalia: >> the group devoted to the establishment of an islamic califate advocates a saudi arabia strain of islam. most are moderate muslims. al-shabab ruled territories with terror tactics like beheadings. it lost most of its hold on somalia, including mogadishu, and the key port of kismayo, by a campaign launched by african union troops. the attack on the mall was the worst terrorist attack in nairobi since the embassy bombing in 1998, killing more than 200. president obama telephoned kenya's president, uhuru

kenyetta. confirming their partnership. >> many of us lost loved ones. >> the president revealing his nephew and his partner were killed. >> let's mourn them as one nation, keeping them in our memory and prayer. >> joining me now from washington d.c. is ambassador david shipp, the former top american diplomat in ethiopia, and a professor at washington university, and richard miniter, a terrorism expert and author. >> kenya's military played a major roll forcing al-shabab's fighters out of the somalian cities. given that, does it come as a surprise they were strong enough to pull off the westgate mall nightmare? >> it does not come as a surprise. the surprise is it did not happen earlier. >> al-shabab has been threatening to pull off a major strike like this for the last two years.

the last one they did was in july 2010 in cappala uganda, where 70-plus people were killed. this is the first time they pulled off a big attack. there has been a number of smaller ones in kenya. this is not a difficult task to do. as long as you have the organizational skills, training and commitment to die for the cause, any group can do it. it does not prove the strength of al-shabab in somalia itself, where it has lost a lot of support. >> most thought that al-shabab lost ground in recent years. as you mentioned they have rarely attacked outside of somalia. here is a timeline. 79 killed in camperform ala -- campala and other attacks. they have been limited to small attacks around somalia's capital

of mogadishu until this weekend. do you see the westgate attack as an act of desperation by a group on its way out, richard? >> it's not a group on its way out. it's been growing among somali refugees in kenya. they are competing for recruits and money. among the recruits they are losing potential recruits into the syrian civil war, drawing recruits from across the arab world. they had to do something big and dramatic to show the young men who are likely to be their recruits that they are players, an attractive option for those that can't get to syria. they are competing for money. they have to show funders across the arab region, that they are capable of carrying out attacks and deserving of financing that may go into the syrian civil war or iraq where afghanistan is somewhere else. given this the organization had to do something dramatics. the mall is very poorly guarded.

the security guards, when they meet shoppers with bags, direct them to walk around metal detectors. it's a casual place, like an american mall. it's unusual, in that it's a social haven for women and children, especially from the upper middle white class suburbs and some of the upper middle class black suburbs. the traffic on the way to the mall was considered the dangerous place. >> in the words of a spokesman: >> again, as you said, security didn't seem to do much good. there were security guards, there were metal detectors. ambassador, is there hope of defending soft targets like this? >> there's not a lot.

unless you have very good intelligence, and the intel is the first line of defense. my guess is intelligence has probably pre-empted a number of attacks we have never heard about or potential attacks. beyond intelligence, you can tighten security procedures and make them better, but you can't stop something like this in a public mall, which is undefended and where, essentially, there's only civilians - it will happen again, somewhere, some place. >> kenya is 80% christian, 11% or more muslim. it has a share of al-shabab supporters. according to the un monitoring group on somalia, those supporters in kenya established an extensive financial support system for al-shabab. they respond sored local troops to travel to kenya. are these kenyan muslims, what do they look for, given they are

a substantial minority in kenya. >> we have to remember people are not terrorists because they are crazy, but because it solves an important problem in their life, a problem involving alienation. it gives them a sense of meaning and purpose. there'll be a certain segment that superiors the terrorist activities in terms of recruits and money. unless you gauge things at the route and deter this action, which is difficult to do and doesn't necessarily involve armed force. it involves intelligence, penetration, but it's stoking the moderate forces in the twin cities where a number of some articlies are born for banning some. islamic elements from that community. and east africa where the mod rates are not feeling they are getting support against radical

voices. >> earlier this year al-shabab posted a recruitment video, including somalian people that became part of the group. let's listen to one of the american recruits in the video. >> if you guys knew how much fun we have over here. this is the real disneyland. come here and join us. >> ambassador, that young man apparently became a suicide bomber - talking about disneyland. how important are the americans to al-shabab. the bigger question is what is the danger to america if any of these people come back here? >> for propaganda purposes, they are important to al-shabab. there haven't been many americans. it's a disturbing number. somewhere in the vicinity of 40 to 50 americans from a variety of cities. they are from many towns, and

daphne alabama, where omar came from. his father was syrian, his mother born in the u.s. for propaganda purposes, this is important. from a strategic point of view, not so important, because numbers are not that great. not all of these people went to somalia. some supported al-shabab in the united states. the interesting question on this is when did these people, these americans or persons who lived in the united states that are currently involved in this intoed in nairobi - when did they go to somalia. are they among the group that went back in 2006/2007 or are they recent recruits. if they are recent, it's disturbing, if they are among the older group, less so. >> some thought they were fairly young, so it might imply they were the recent recruits. what can happen when they come

home. former federal bureau of investigation agent ali said what we see in kenya could be copied in the united states. fiction writers talked about this for a long time. is it a real concern? >> absolutely. the mall in america, one of the longest in the states is an hour down the road from the twin towers. given the large somali population at twin cities, and the number of which have made it to iraq or somalia or other trouble spots, the number of connections is interesting. if this is addressed to her in the mall of america, it could be dramaticic in devastating. >> as we mentioned at the top of the program, there's numerous reports that al-shabab fighters target anyone who was not a muslim at the mall. james harini posted this from nairobi:

>> another eyewitness, in t"the washington post" said his wife was allowed to leave after reciting a verse from the koran. is it a religious war, are they going after christians? >> this is a disturbing thing coming out of westgate mall. this is the first time where al-shabab used this tactic. maybe they have done it before and i missed it. it is very disturbing. it's not clear to me whether this was a tactic used by all of the members of this al-shabab team or it was one or two of them. whether this was a new tactic or policy from al-shabab. this is unclear. it's unhelpful. the vast majority of muslims around the world or some articlies, would totally disassociate themselves with this kind of an approach to

winning support for your cause. >> i am sure they would. >> let me add to that. al-shabab has a tough political problem here. most of the victims of terrorist attacks, islamic terrorist attacks are muslim. more than 80% globally speaking. if they sort out the victims and only killed non-muslims, it helps them politically solidify reports in kenya and somalia. we see a pattern with somali groups, we you saw in lucsaw, not al-shabab, but other groups, they sought out non-mus limes. and the bombing in saudi arabia, where they carried out the bombing during a muslim prayer time. we have seen it happen. when groups are worried about political support, they are careful not to kill muslims. >> look here. it was targeted at christians.

this weekend 85 christians were killed in peshawar in pakistan when two suicide bombers attacked a christian search. the bishop emmer it us says it's not safe for christians in the country, everyone is ignoring dangers for christians in the islamic countries. what is the danger for christians in pakistan specifically and across the muslim world. >> hopefully this is something of an anomaly. this has happened elsewhere. >> we have seen the attacks on egypt against the koptic christians. >> it's worrisome indeed. i make the point that in terms of al-shabab killing non-muslims, if you look at the people they have killed inside somalia, the overwhelming majority are muslims. they carry out the suicide attacks in mogadishu. they rarely kill a non-muslim.

i'm not sure that in the mind of most some articlies that this will track well. they know good and well that other fellow somali muslims die at the hands of al-shabab. not non-muslims. it's a strange development. it is a worrisome trend that you see in other parts of the world. >> thank you ambassador, david shipp and richard miniter. thank you for your time. >> up next - the time to influence young invincibles to buy health injure. what do you think. our associate producer is filtering your questions. please bring them to us on both twitter and facebook. we'll be right back. ç]

>> one group of americans will play a big part in whether obamacare succeeds - the millions of young healthy americans. they are vital participants in the health care plan for it to offset the costs of covering older, sicker americans. some call them young invincibles, and there is an organization by that name to get young people to sign up for the plan. >> obama administration officials said they need to enrol 2.7 u.s. redents between the ages of 18 and 35 in exchange plans to balance risks and hold down costs. will they enrol come 1 october - should they pay the face.

>> joining me now is jen mishory, deputy director of young invincibles, she's in washington d.c. and yevgeniy feyman, a research assistant at the manhattan institute. thank you for being with us. i want to start with you yevgeniy feyman. the young people are crucial to the success of obamacare. >> absolutely. they'll balance out the risk pool, they'll keep premiums that need the insurance, and the administration is reaching out to them. >> jen, the young invincibles are in the 18-34 group. what's the profile that the affordable care act want to reach - young people that work part time in jobs that don't after benefits, people over 26 and can't get insurance under their parents' policies any more. >> it's a mix. what we see is it's all sorts of young people. it can be a young person attending community college and working at night part time.

someone who aged off their parent's plan, but can't get an offer of insurance through their job. it could be someone under 26, but their parents don't have insurance. young latinos have a higher uninsured rate than the general population. it's a mix and it's hard to define what the population looks like, but it is diverse snoox they are targets for both sides of the debate. the obama administration is going after them with all sorts of resources. they have tv ads, including one that has a psychoa delic - this one that runs in oregon, there's another video contest where people can win up to $24,000. the baltimore ravens signed on, katy perry is tweeting for affordable care act. there are viral ads that we have seen of of featuring a creepy

uncle sam - this is happening as school is underway, obamacare set to start on 1 october. is that confusing. >> i think young people are unsure how to enrol. i was talking to a reporter, it will be a federal exchange. she had no idea how people will sign up. if the media doesn't know, young people, of course, don't know, they don't have anyone to tell them. >> young people don't watch enough news or read the newspaper. that's the other issue, i wonder whether the viral videos, other ways to reach out to people will be effective. >> if i was 27 years old, i'm healthy and feel great, i don't think i'll get sick, why would i go out and pay for health care when if i get sick, all i will face is a $95 penalty or 1% of

my household income. what's the incentive for me to sign up? >> sure. certainly it will be an individual choice, and some will choose not to sign up. what we have seen from polling and talking to young people and engaging with this population is that young people value coverage. about three-quarters of young people in a recent poll say they value coverage and want insurance. this young invincibles is that most people do want coverage. it's not that necessarily you are convincing a population that is not interested. traditionally there has been limited access to affordable options. there's about 19 million uninsured young people. of those, assuming all states expanded meddy cade which we know they are not doing, helpfully they will in the next few years, 8 million could qualify for medicade.

9 million will qualify for some sort of tax credit to bring down the costs of insurance. the young, uninsured population tends to be lower income and more likely to be able to enrol in some of the costs - the cost breaks that you see available out there. >> we'll look at some costs. if you are looking at paying a couple of hundred a month for insurance, and are thinking, "i'll only pay a $95 fine, i'll save money and go out on dates", that's something young people will factor in. >> of course. the thing with the first year is the penalty is $95 or 1% of your income. at 1% of your income, saving $200 or $300 a month, it's a great deal to avoid coverage. take-up rates in the private employment market is 60%. medicade as low as 40%. young people are not willing to

pay the price for it, even if they want it. >> we have a question. >> robert sheldon wants to know how obamacare will impact prescription drug coverage, and why should the young and healthy care about this? >> sure. there's a couple of reasons why the young and healthy care about it. an interesting stat i saw recently was about half or over half of young uninsured people were struggling to pay medical bills or had some sort of medical debt they were trying to pay down. it's not like young peopler not interacting with the system or walking away with costs they can't afford and don't want the coverage to protect themselves from the debt. they do. >> one thing with regard to prescription drugs. a lot of the - all of the new plans that you will see on the marketplaces or these exchanges - they'll have to provide certain types of benefits. one of those essential health benefits will be prescription

drug coverage. it's important because prescription drugs are what people tend to use and preventive use. a lot of those services will be available on the exchange plans. >> let's talk about costs and what the exchange plans will be like. the keiser foundation is looking at health insurance using rates that insurers will charge. at vermont. a low income 25-year-old's tax credit will cover the premium of the cheapest plan, the bronze plan. when you hop to oregon, the same 25-year-old will have to spend $116 a month, and conneticut as high as $258, or in some cases as low as $69. $258 - that's a lot of money. i suspect a lot of people will resist paying those numbers. why all this disparity among the states? >> a lot of it has to do with what the underlying health care

costs are in each state. it varies across the united states. new york is expensive and massachusetts. minnesota is cheaper, but the population is healthier. it has a lot to do with current regulations in the market. new york is heavily regulated, california is not. it's an interesting dynamic. new yorkers will see a decrease and california an increase. california has more people in the individual markets. >> what about addressing choices for consumers. let's play a clip. a lot of people are confused about this. >> we will keep this promise for the american people. if you like your doctor, you'll be able to keep your doctor. >> that was 2009. now the health and human services services says you may be able to be able to keep your doctor. many insurers limit doctors and

hospitals. according to a study by price waterhouse coopers. insurance companies are not including major medical centres in a bunch of states, including california. >> sure. it will variy state by state. you'll see a lot of variance like my colleague mentioned, across states. states are in charge of insuring network adequacy, making sure that plans give access to folks and their doctors on those exchanges. >> what if they don't include the major medical centres, where they have a lot of specialists, and you are someone that has the cheap plans, and your plan doesn't include the medical center. what's to that person. you can't go to the interests, bus the costs will be prohibitive. >> that's a point we wanted to make. for young people this will be important. young people haven't been insured. a significant number have not. the health insurance literacy

rate is low. understanding things like network and where you can go to the interest, what a deductible is, what a co-pay is. that will be new. that's what we are focussing on - not just what are the options, what are the tax credits, is meddy cade expanding, but how you look at plans and make the choices. >> an issue - this is a question people don't like to ask or mention - the program provide insurance for lower income individuals and families, but a lot of that comes from people who already this year are paying much more into their health insurance than they were last year - is that a reason people don't like this? >> i'm not sure that people understand what "this" is. people are not happy about paying more for insurance. the president misspoke in 2008/2009, saying that for a

family insurance costs would go down by $2500. it was an expectation going in, but it's not the case, was never going be the case, because it doesn't affect a typical family to begin with. >> one thing i would add is the typical young insured person is low income. someone making $16,000-$17,000, and they'll qualify for significant tax credits - $10-$15 a month to purchase insurance. for them it's a huge cost reduction. >> thank you jen mishory, and yevgeniy feyman thank you both for coming on. we'll follow the story as we move into october and the exchanges open up. >> coming up - we take a look at poverty in the country and a man who travelled around the country to see it first hand.

cz >> the u.s. sensis found this summer that one in five americans will experience poverty at one point in their life. last week the cen suss found 46.5 million americans live in poverty now, 15%. it's worse for kids - 1:5 are currently poor. wall street bounced back in a big way, so have other sectors of the economy.

how is half of america making a financial comeback and the other isn't. >> let's ask the author of "the american way of poverty: how the other half still lives." sasha abramsky joins us live from sacramento california. he interviewed hundreds of people in dozens of states for the book. thank you for joining us. in your studies and conversations and your travels, you say that you saw the face of poverty changing, coming in all shapes and sizes, from college graduates, uneducated, drug abusers and those that have always been sober. what are the biggest misconceptions about americans in poverty. >> good evening. thank you for having me on board. there's a stereotype about poverty. it's that you are poor because you have done something wrong, you are morally blame forth worthy -- blame worthy.

as i travelled around the country i interviewed hundreds of people from all walks of life. they ranged from people who dropped out of high school to people who had phds. in the current economic situation, the current factor was some people are doing fen omonnally well. millions of people at the bottom fail to make it. they are failing to make it not because they have done something wrong. many of them work two-three jobs. they are failing to make it because the economy is not responding to their needs. they are ending up without health insurance, unemployed after decades of work, ending up unable to feed their children - not because they have done something wrong, but the economy is not functioning in an inclusive way. and it's tied with inequality. >> you describe and paint a bleak economic picture of america. the question is, though, how,

under those circumstances, how do you distribute the burden of helping those in poverty? >> we used to do it better. i'm wary about romantisising the past. they were photographed 100 years ago, stein beck wrote about them. michael harrington in the other america wrote about them during the age of av loouns. there has been poverty. we've given up as a society to alleviate it. somehow poverty has become a forgotten topic. if you do well, you essentially privatise your life - you live in a gated community, you suburbia where you can ignore what is happening in the other parts of the country. if you go and spend time talking to people, going into out of the way places in america, go into family's homes, you'll find a well of economic insecurity.

that is an important part of this. we don't live in a country with wholesale starvation. the poverty in america is not the same as poverty in india or sub-saharan africa. it is one of inequality and insecurity. every day, if you live in that situation, you are having to juggle bills - do i pay my heating or make the car payment. do i buy food for my kids or make the house payment. do i buy medicines when the doctor says i need medicine but i have no insurance, or do i keep my gas on. they are unpalatable choices. if you send the kids to school hungry. i interview children saying, "i go to school hungry. i come home and have dry cereal." countries as rich as ours, it seems we have a moral

obligation to deal with the crisis, but we have been ignoring it. >> is it fair? in no way do i want to diminish suffering in this country. i have gone in the late "90, to a poor county in the country. there was sewerage in the streets, a horrible situation. even so, if you look at what is happening now, you have a record 47.8 million americans on foodstamps. 14 million americans are getting disability checks. more than 10 years ago. there certainly is a lot of money and a lot of attention being paid, is there not? >> no, we have a partial safety net. we wait until people get extremely poor and economically insecure and we step in. when you mention food stamps, that is the one part of the safety net that survived the last 10-20 years of cuts. the welfare system has not, it has been shredded.

the food noout -- nutrition programs survived. no one looks at numbers on welfare because it doesn't mention poverty, many look at the foodstamps issued. we have 50 million so poor in this country that if the government didn't step in with a few hundred or score of dollars, those people would be missing mills, malnewerished, sending kids to school hungry. the republicans have gone after the foodstamp program. they said we'll try to shut government down. one way to do it is to pass a measure cancelling $40 million out of school stamps. economic blackmail. >> to be fair, while they are substantial cuts, it's over a period of time, and only about 4% or so a year of the massive numbers. >> let me interrupt you. when you say it's only about

4%... >> again, i don't want to diminish the suffering that may involve. >> let me talk about this a bit. this is something that in the abstract, when we talk about abstract numbers and quantities, it's easy to turn poverty into something that's far away. when you humanise it, when you talk to people, you realise the numbers of people behind the 4% statistic, there are 50 million hungry people. 4% of that is less people. 2 million people going hungry. that's 0.5% of the population, a little more than that. that's a huge number of americans needlessly put at risk of hunger by a policy that will say -- save in the long run, not much money. it's about priorities. one of the things in my book is we have an obligation to care for the vulnerable. it's a measure of society.

america has far more people in poverty than any other country. it has more children in poverty and people in deep poverty, people that don't get to half the poverty line threshold. we have 6 million americans with no access to cash. the only assistance they get, if any, is food stamps and other nutritional assistance. take that away and those people have nothing. it seems to me, i talk about this in the book, it's a matter of political choice. there's no economic necessity to do that. no need as a country to beat up on our poorest and vulnerable residents. we are choosing to do it. it's that choice that i highlight in the american way of poverty. >> we have a viewer question for you. >> a viewer wants to know how can older people without a college degree and any skills living in poverty ever get out of that cycle - too old for

school, unemployable. what can people in this predictment do to help this situation? >> it's a great question and affects a tremendous number of people, people who in the last economic recession lost their jobs. they were essentially put on the economic scrap heap. they are too old to retrain, and too old to rebuild their savings. many may have lost their savings when the housing market collapsed. it's a big project that can be done over many years. one thing has to be pension systems has to be rebuilt. the country transferred a tremendous amount of risk from companies and corporations on to individuals. so more and more americans today have no pension savings to fall back on. one thing that has to be done is rebuild a broken pension system. the other thing is the government has to recognise there are people who have been left destitute, beggared by the economic crisis and has to find

creative ways to help - from heating assistance, through to better coverage of medical substance, housing assistance through to creative programs like gas stamps. one thing i advocate in my book is in rural areas, which have been hard hit by gas price spikes, where there has been months where gas prices go up $0.50 or a dollar a gallon - people in those communities need the same kind of assistance as food camps. i advocate gas stamps. >> all this costs money. >> that's right. sthoo you said we will not go -- >> you said we will not go down the road of greece - we only have about 30 seconds left - what about when national debt is the highest since world war ii, and people are afraid it will get to 100% gdp. >> it's a matter of priorities, what do we spend money on, and

what kind of society do we want. we undertax wealthy people and corporations. we are self-starving infrastructure. that's political choice. we could have targeted limited tax increases that would fully fund the sorts of programs i advocate in my book. it's doable. that we don't do it is a failure of our moral imagination, not an economic necessity. >> sasha abramsky, the book is "the american way of poverty: how the other half still lives." appreciate you joining us tonight. >> thank you for having me on. >> the poaching of rhinos shot up 5,000% over the last five years. why should you care? because it's now funding terrorist groups.

>> today's data dive plunges into the world of animal hunts. known as poaching.

rhinoceros husks are valuable, worth more than gold or coke an. they have had ornamental value and powder has been used in asia for hundreds of years for its supposed healing power. the horns spiked in price when it was rumoured powder cured the cancer of a vietnamese politician. rhinos are getting poached in record numbers in south africa, from 13 in 2007 to 668 in 2012, and that market has been pass the this year with three months left. it's gotten so bad some conservationists discussed lifting the ban on killing rhinos, because they believe the black market is driving up the price and demand. hippos are suffering. their population plummeted by 20% over the past decade. poachers sell their meat and canine teeth, made of ivory. elephant herds have been thinned drew to poachers wanting the ivory tusks.

the the numbers dropped from 1.3 million to 420,000 today in africa. authorities in zimbabwe confirmed 81 elfantastic have been poisoned in -- elfantastic have been poisoned in the national park since pay. >> 6 million tonnes of ivory would be destroyed as a symbolic gesture. hillary clinton says the money is often funnelled to terror groups, including al-shabab, the murderous some articlies who attacked a mall in kenya. 35,000 african elephants were killed, 96 a day. in that rate they'd be xe tingt within a problem extinct within a decade. >> there's bright spots. massive efforts helped with wild cats. the unanimous were down to 254. efforts tripled it to 880 now. there are many other valiant efforts to save lyons,

elephants, rhinos, hippos, gore illas and other animals. coming up - has proof of alien life been found. we talk science, space science

next. >> space scientists have been

busy, especially over the past couple of weeks - from finding proof of water on mars to the voyager becoming the first spacecraft to enterinterstellar space to scientists saying they have discovered proof of alien life after collecting dust from the stratosphere. they found fragments of single-cell algae. the question is where do the dyotons come from. >> joining me from the franklin institute, derek pitts. >> what are the chances that these dio tonnes are from another planet. not everyone agrees on this discovery. it would be wonderful if there was more concrete evidence about the dyotones coming from space. they are, of course, tiny single-cell, i believe, creatures that are found in sea

water here on the planet's surface, here on the the earth. if you read the article, there was one piece of a dyatone found in the material collected by the scientists that wrote the report. it's hardly conclusive. if you read further, you find that the sample is not taken broadly and a number of other small complicating factors. when we get down to it, it's hard to take this on the surface value for what they claim it could be. >> no sure alien life yet. let's switch to mars and the pictures for koour yosty rover. it's providing a lot of compelling evidence that mars was once wet. is it clear now that mars definitely had water at some point and the question, of course, becomes could that have supported life? >> i have to say, many years ago, back in the late 1970s,

when i was looking at satellite photographs of mars using air photo analysis techniques replied to geology, it was evident that long ago that many surface features on mars are created by fluvial erosion, the flow of some liquid. after seeing chemical evidence of the fact that minerals found on mars, some that can only be created in a watery environment proved to me and many, many other scientists that mars was wetter in its past. in fact, if you look closely, what you find is that there's still water frozen into the surface soil of mars as perma frost. it doesn't exist on the surface, but we know it's there, and that mars had large bodies of water in its past. >> life or no life? >> i would love for there to have been life. we need to find fossils though

or find contemporary evidence. i think it would make a lot of sense to send some pail yentologists to mars and they would find the evidence quickly. >> talking about sending people to mars, there's a reality tv show that is trying to send people to mars and establish a colony there. according to nasa a manned mission to mars will not be occurring soon because it would expose astronauts to radiation that would lead to cancer. would it be a long time before that allows us to get to mars. >> space exploration has never really been an easy thing to do. it's frought with risk. there's no lack of risk in sending people to morse for many other reasons, besides the radiation factor. it's a problem. what we have been able to do time and again is find ways to mitigate the risk, making it worthwhile to make such trips,

if we come up with ways to mitigate, and travel around the solar system freely, mars would be one of the first places to go to nail down this question of whether or not there's other life in our solar system. >> we'd like to go back to the moon, it captured our imagination. new research says the moon is 100 million years younger than scientists believed. the question is we are talking billions of years here. 100 million not so much in the grand seem of things. what is the significance of the discovery? >> it runs in two directions - our ability to further interpret the evidence we are collecting both from earth as the history of its early formation with the moon, and our ability to better analyse lunar samples, giving us more details about the early history of the moon. the other piece is being able to

better understand how the moon was formed in this solar system can give us hints and clues about the formation of planets orbiting other stars in our galaxy. it helps us get a better view or understanding of what may have gone on or what could be going on in other solar systems. recently we have been able to clearly identify planets orbiting other stars - and hundreds of them. there's a bigger story there for us to chase down. >> we may be able to chase more of that information now that voyager 1 spacecraft, according to nasa, has become the first manmade object entering the interstellar space, and passed the sphere surrounding the sun. there has been debate about when this happened or if it happened at all. >> yes. the debate has been going on for a couple of years now. the reason why is as we get to the outer reaches of the solar system so to speak, we encounter

a region we are not familiar with. as early, recently as last year scientists were unsure whether we had passed the helio area because it seamed we were outside, then back in, and it was realised that it pulsed back and forth over the spase craft. now that we are outside of it, we can detect we have passed it and are that much further out - not out of the solar system, still a ways to two for that, but at least as far as we have sent anything before. >> i hope we learn more. let's get a social media question. >> what is the expected life span of voyager i? >> that's a great question. engineers expect voyager i will operate for another decade or so - 12 years or more, a little

around that time period 12 years. that's a wonderful thing, because it tells us that the engineering that went into this was really good. it will continue to do good science, and the longer the spacecraft lasts, the more bang for the buck. 35 years is a long time for the spacecraft. it will cost us just pennies by the time they run out of the energy. >> the new cygnus spase craft for the international space center had to skip the first attempt. it's private money going to the new rockets. a good idea, do you think, that we have taken a lot of this private? >> i think it's a fabulous idea. it makes perfect sense. if we think back to the early "90s, a lot of corporations outsourced easy work and did the things they could focus on and

do well. this is what nasa needs to focus on. it's the direction they are going in farming out the easy stuff. it doesn't take much to launch toilet tissues and pizza to international space station. nasa is doing what i call evolving from being a space program of the "50s, and "60s, and "70s, to being a space program of the 21st century, in which they take on the big jobs - going back to the moon, going on to mars and other daring things in the solar system and leaving the delivery work to outsourced companies. >> space tourism may start in a few months according to richard branson with virgin gall abbing ticka. it will cost a quarter of a million, hope you are saving derek pitts. >> thank you for joining us. the show may be over but the conversation continues on facebook, twitter or google.

see you next time. >> good morning. i'm morgan radford. these are some of the stories we are following right now. the deadly standoff in a kenyan shopping mall is finally winding down. now there is new information that somalis living in america and britain may have played a role in the attack that left dozens dead. >> president obama set to address the united nations general assembly this morning as world leaders gather in new york city. at the top of the agenda - deal with the crisis in syria, and the possibility of improving relations with iran. the >> the new president of iran will speak.